(POST-GAME) @Indiana, Wed., Nov. 17, 9p, FS-1

Ray Morgan post=442980 said:
I will stick with what I posted earlier. Smith is near automatic inside the 3 and an adventure behind the line. I know he shot 40% from 3 one season, but it's a different game at this level.
Stanley seems to be a better option than Wheeler. He is still raw, but Stanley plays hard and won't take any threes. That's an improvement right there.
Soriano looked like he lacked Big East athleticism. Still, 4 offensive rebounds is a stat we need from him.
Pinzon had some good moments, but that last pass would have been a great one if it was for Champagnie's father the soccer player. Right at Champ's feet. After that Champ rushed the shot. Not a well executed play.
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Not a well executed play, but more importantly not a well drawn up play. Let's face it, CMA's strength as a coach is not drawing up good end of game plays. We saw it last year, multiple times. 
 
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I predicted a win and, although wrong, I would take us again in a rematch - and unquestionably on a neutral or home court. Our guys were punched in the face in the 1st half - with IU’s intensity putting us on our heels from the get go - but found our sea legs and learned some things (good and bad) about some of our players.

Agree with many that Coburn should have played in 2nd half especially when we needed more 3 point threats on the floor. He was among many players that was not ready for IU’s quickness and intensity - but I believe would have figured it out.

As for last play, I believe that unless you find a wide open shooter, I want to take the ball to the hoop and get a layup or foul.
 
Duke of Earlington post=442985 said:
Pinzon was our only bench player to hit a fg.  Not good.
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Most concerning stat.

our potential depth was praised all preseason. First legit game and several guys were played off the floor. 

how does only one bench player have a field goal when one of our starters literally got ejected in the first half 
 
Not my first choice but got past Pinzon taking it up..just don't get why he took it right into congestion which led to the tie up and time off clock

Nice come back but not pleased with the lack of rhythm and cohesiveness most of the game.  Just didn't liok right to me.
 
Champy - great performance
Posh - not a good game from him.  Bad turnover down the stretch, stupid fouls early in the game and not aggressive enough on offense
Smith - big time game from him.  Clutch shooting
Soriano - not impressed.  His lack of athleticism really showed today
Coburn - Invisible.  Couldnt buy a bucket after being our best shooter through the 1st 2 games
Wusu - so so performance.  Not bad but nothing great
Pinzon - great performance for a freshman.  Not going to blame him for final play as he should of never had the ball in his                     hands at that juncture of the game as a freshman.
Stanley - didnt do much out there but def wasnt in over his head in a big time game as a freshman.
Wheeler - really did not do much when he was out there.  I expected more from him.
 
Think Stanley held his own as a freshmen with 10 minutes had 2 blocks, 2 steals, 2 rebounds and didn't try to jack the ball up to take a bad shot.

champ stuffed the stats offensively  had 7 rebounds but didn't see anyone on the court step up to lead.
 
Man that hurt. They just looked so rattled in the first 10 minutes of this game. It almost seemed like they looked shook by the environment. the weird flagrant 2 and the point swing that came there really put them in a hole. It felt over. Bad breaks that were unfortunately happening on top of bad play.

That being said, the fact that they were able to get their feet under them and make it a great game gIves me hope that this team has real potential. A lot of that is due to Champagnie just fully transforming into one of the best players in the country. He’s going to win us a number of Big East games all on his own. Smith was big time. I know Posh had a few bad moments but I think he was gritty and a huge part of why the team didn’t have a full on mental breakdown when the place was rocking and they were about to get run out of the building. He keeps playing as hard as he can no matter the score. Really liked what we saw from Pinzon tonight despite a messy final play. He can play an important role this season and looks very capable of growing into a much larger role over the next couple of seasons. 

Moral victories sucks. Wish we were more poised at the start and m better prepared to run that final play at the end. Big fan of this coach but that’s on him too. An away loss by 2 at Indiana won’t hurt us at all on Selection Sunday but a road win there sure would have helped. Lots of encouraging things to point to but ultimately a missed opportunity. 
 
Duke of Earlington post=442989 said:
Champy - great performance
Posh - not a good game from him.  Bad turnover down the stretch, stupid fouls early in the game and not aggressive enough on offense
Smith - big time game from him.  Clutch shooting
Soriano - not impressed.  His lack of athleticism really showed today
Coburn - Invisible.  Couldnt buy a bucket after being our best shooter through the 1st 2 games
Wusu - so so performance.  Not bad but nothing great
Pinzon - great performance for a freshman.  Not going to blame him for final play as he should of never had the ball in his                     hands at that juncture of the game as a freshman.
Stanley - didnt do much out there but def wasnt in over his head in a big time game as a freshman.
Wheeler - really did not do much when he was out there.  I expected more from him.
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I thought Wusu was terrific in the second half.  He made a lot of hustle plays to keep balls alive, and keep our comeback going.
 
Monte post=442961 said:
Pinzon played well, but he should not have had the ball in his hands on that last play. No way, no how. Not when we have the best PG in the Big East on the court 
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I love Posh, but he had 5 turnovers and had been slipping and sliding all night long and was expected to get the ball.  Pinzon had been protecting the ball well and making great decisions with the ball all night, I have no problem with coach trusting him in that situation.  Also, If you watch the last play IU was going to double team Posh as soon as he got it, that's how Pinzon was able to run across and get it the ball so easily.  If the hand-off to Julian would have been clean he would have got a much better shot off. 

Also, Julian had a fantastic game hard to criticize him, but he has to make a better decisions in that situation as well.  When he threw that 3 pointer up he literally had 4 guys all collapse on him, when there was still 2.3 seconds left.  He had Pinzon open for 3 in the corner, he had Wusu open at the top corner of the key for 3 and Posh was at a full sprint coming from the top of the key he could have got it and got an open mid-range shot.  

With all that said hindsight is 20/20.  Would have liked a cleaner look, but rarely do you see a super clean look when you have less than 10 seconds and you have to run the length of the court, and that's at the college and pro level.  I've seen the Lakers this year get worse last second shots.
 
So for the people who weren’t at the game. Posh was suffering from Cramps and was absolutely gassed. Could be a reason he didn’t bring the ball up. He left the tank on E. Also those crying about Coburn, there’s a reason he played at Hofstra, yes he can shoot the lights out, but his handle of the Rock is atrocious. It is very week and a turn over waiting to happen
 
Mathis doesn’t get thrown out on that BULLSHIT “Flagrant 2” we win the game…. We completely OUTPLAYED them in the 2nd half… we get to OT we blow them out… great early test we SHOULD have won… still so HYPED about what this team is going to look like in JANUARY… Mark my words, once Big East season opens we WILL be ready to kick some fuckin’ass… Coburn & Wheeler will be much more defined & just better players by January…. Mathis & Smith are already with “ the program”… we play this game on a neutral court we WIN by 5-7 points….. Once this team is humming come mid Hanuary…. LOOK OUT.! 

btw - Champagnie should be 2nd team ALL-AMERICAN!
 
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Making Plays post=442993 said:
Monte post=442961 said:
Pinzon played well, but he should not have had the ball in his hands on that last play. No way, no how. Not when we have the best PG in the Big East on the court 
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I love Posh, but he had 5 turnovers and had been slipping and sliding all night long and was expected to get the ball.  Pinzon had been protecting the ball well and making great decisions with the ball all night, I have no problem with coach trusting him in that situation.  Also, If you watch the last play IU was going to double team Posh as soon as he got it, that's how Pinzon was able to run across and get it the ball so easily.  If the hand-off to Julian would have been clean he would have got a much better shot off. 

Also, Julian had a fantastic game hard to criticize him, but he has to make a better decisions in that situation as well.  When he threw that 3 pointer up he literally had 4 guys all collapse on him, when there was still 2.3 seconds left.  He had Pinzon open for 3 in the corner, he had Wusu open at the top corner of the key for 3 and Posh was at a full sprint coming from the top of the key he could have got it and got an open mid-range shot.  

With all that said hindsight is 20/20.  Would have liked a cleaner look, but rarely do you see a super clean look when you have less than 10 seconds and you have to run the length of the court, and that's at the college and pro level.  I've seen the Lakers this year get worse last second shots.
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I had made a comment a few plays earlier that I felt Pinzon was rushing things. When I  saw him bringing the ball up on that last play, I immediately had concerns. He needed to move quickly, but not rush. He rushed. Not his fault, he's a freshman and it's very early in the season. He not only made a bad pass, he got too close to Champ and Champ wasn't sure what he was going to do. You could see Champ was confused. Now, maybe Posh does the same thing, but we'll never know. What we do know is that we had a chance to tie or win the game, and the decision that CMA made to put the ball in Pinzon's hands prevented that from happening. Kinda made me feel like all those situations at the end of last season when Dunn had the ball in his hands. CMA has to do a better job of calling up plays at the end of games. This scenario(busted plays) has played out way too many times. 
 
Tough loss, but also proud of the team.  Indiana has a nice roster and that arena is an extremely difficult place to play.  A few thoughts......

Let's all enjoy Julian while he's here.  He is a super talent and a special kid.  He had a great game tonight.

For those clamoring for Coburn, it's simple.  He needs to take care of the ball if he wants to be on the court.  

Aaron Wheeler is 6'9", but he is clearly not a big. 

Steff Smith is a nice player and a tough kid.  He took an earful from CMA twice, but it (nor the crowd) shook his confidence.

The Mathis call was bush league.  Flagrant 1 was the right call there.  It was unfortunate because he was off to a solid start.
 
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Monte post=442997 said:
Making Plays post=442993 said:
Monte post=442961 said:
Pinzon played well, but he should not have had the ball in his hands on that last play. No way, no how. Not when we have the best PG in the Big East on the court 
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I love Posh, but he had 5 turnovers and had been slipping and sliding all night long and was expected to get the ball.  Pinzon had been protecting the ball well and making great decisions with the ball all night, I have no problem with coach trusting him in that situation.  Also, If you watch the last play IU was going to double team Posh as soon as he got it, that's how Pinzon was able to run across and get it the ball so easily.  If the hand-off to Julian would have been clean he would have got a much better shot off. 

Also, Julian had a fantastic game hard to criticize him, but he has to make a better decisions in that situation as well.  When he threw that 3 pointer up he literally had 4 guys all collapse on him, when there was still 2.3 seconds left.  He had Pinzon open for 3 in the corner, he had Wusu open at the top corner of the key for 3 and Posh was at a full sprint coming from the top of the key he could have got it and got an open mid-range shot.  

With all that said hindsight is 20/20.  Would have liked a cleaner look, but rarely do you see a super clean look when you have less than 10 seconds and you have to run the length of the court, and that's at the college and pro level.  I've seen the Lakers this year get worse last second shots.
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I had made a comment a few plays earlier that I felt Pinzon was rushing things. When I  saw him bringing the ball up on that last play, I immediately had concerns. He needed to move quickly, but not rush. He rushed. Not his fault, he's a freshman and it's very early in the season. He not only made a bad pass, he got too close to Champ and Champ wasn't sure what he was going to do. You could see Champ was confused. Now, maybe Posh does the same thing, but we'll never know. What we do know is that we had a chance to tie or win the game, and the decision that CMA made to put the ball in Pinzon's hands prevented that from happening. Kinda made me feel like all those situations at the end of last season when Dunn had the ball in his hands. CMA has to do a better job of calling up plays at the end of games. This scenario(busted plays) has played out way too many times. 
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He literally just coached his team back from 16 down against one of the toughest places to play in college basketball.

And what games you been watching where coaches are getting their players super good looks running the full length of court with less than 10 seconds?  I watch a lot of NBA and college basketball and in those situations most of the time it doesn't look good and the offense usually gets a bad shot off, unless it's just a complete breakdown by the defense.  In those situations, there is no magical play that gets you a good shot, usually it's a get the ball in-bounds, and it to your best player by any means and let them make a play, and that's what they did.

I watched the Lakers have a similar situation a couple weeks ago, where Westbrook (a 29% 3 point shooter) ran the length of the court and took a contested 3 pointer that was way off.  And the coach that drew that up won an NBA championship about a little over a year ago.
 
The ejection was absurd but the main culprits for the loss were the very poor start and the limited contributions from certain players from whom we have to get more.  The guys have to come out hot from the gate, and can not spot teams (especially good ones) that kind of lead.  It takes too much effort and energy to recover and is very hard to get over the hump.

I expect that some guys (like Wusu and Coburn, and hopefully Soriano) can and will give us better efforts in the future.  The good thing was that they DID come back and could have won.  Posh also has to be more aggressive on offense.  I think he'll be fine.

Not a symbolic victory kind of guy, but I don't think that they will be overmatched in many if any games.  

My sense is that, like last year's team and the one the year before, this was a part of the maturation and melding process.  This team is far ahead of those 2 other teams in terms of talent and depth, so I expect that we still  have an exciting year ahead.  Watching these games, though I think that the conference on balance will be very tough and there will be very few easy wins.
 
 
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Making Plays post=442999 said:
Monte post=442997 said:
Making Plays post=442993 said:
Monte post=442961 said:
Pinzon played well, but he should not have had the ball in his hands on that last play. No way, no how. Not when we have the best PG in the Big East on the court 
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I love Posh, but he had 5 turnovers and had been slipping and sliding all night long and was expected to get the ball.  Pinzon had been protecting the ball well and making great decisions with the ball all night, I have no problem with coach trusting him in that situation.  Also, If you watch the last play IU was going to double team Posh as soon as he got it, that's how Pinzon was able to run across and get it the ball so easily.  If the hand-off to Julian would have been clean he would have got a much better shot off. 

Also, Julian had a fantastic game hard to criticize him, but he has to make a better decisions in that situation as well.  When he threw that 3 pointer up he literally had 4 guys all collapse on him, when there was still 2.3 seconds left.  He had Pinzon open for 3 in the corner, he had Wusu open at the top corner of the key for 3 and Posh was at a full sprint coming from the top of the key he could have got it and got an open mid-range shot.  

With all that said hindsight is 20/20.  Would have liked a cleaner look, but rarely do you see a super clean look when you have less than 10 seconds and you have to run the length of the court, and that's at the college and pro level.  I've seen the Lakers this year get worse last second shots.
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I had made a comment a few plays earlier that I felt Pinzon was rushing things. When I  saw him bringing the ball up on that last play, I immediately had concerns. He needed to move quickly, but not rush. He rushed. Not his fault, he's a freshman and it's very early in the season. He not only made a bad pass, he got too close to Champ and Champ wasn't sure what he was going to do. You could see Champ was confused. Now, maybe Posh does the same thing, but we'll never know. What we do know is that we had a chance to tie or win the game, and the decision that CMA made to put the ball in Pinzon's hands prevented that from happening. Kinda made me feel like all those situations at the end of last season when Dunn had the ball in his hands. CMA has to do a better job of calling up plays at the end of games. This scenario(busted plays) has played out way too many times. 
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He literally just coached his team back from 16 down against one of the toughest places to play in college basketball.

And what games you been watching where coaches are getting their players super good looks running the full length of court with less than 10 seconds?  I watch a lot of NBA and college basketball and in those situations most of the time it doesn't look good and the offense usually gets a bad shot off, unless it's just a complete breakdown by the defense.  In those situations, there is no magical play that gets you a good shot, usually it's a get the ball in-bounds, and it to your best player by any means and let them make a play, and that's what they did.

I watched the Lakers have a similar situation a couple weeks ago, where Westbrook (a 29% 3 point shooter) ran the length of the court and took a contested 3 pointer that was way off.  And the coach that drew that up won an NBA championship about a little over a year ago.
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Don't misquote me to suit your agenda. I never said "super good looks". We need decent looks, not busted plays. Simple. And my comment is not an overall indictment of CMA as a coach, so take it easy. CMA is a phenomenal coach who's kids give 100% every minute on the court. But in spite of your feelings about him, he doesn't walk on water. And, IMO, one of the things he needs to work on is his end of the game play calling. We've all seen enough of it over the past 2 years to see that it's not working efficiently.  
 
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Definitely reasonable to be upset with the way the last possession went. But I doubt giving it to Pinzon to go full length of the court was CMAs first choice and I’m sure Indiana if given the option would make sure it’s anyone but Posh with a full head of steam. Do agree that late game possessions have been an issue under CMA. 

BTW no one will confuse Soriano’s game last night for a great one but thought it was worth mentioning that pass he made to champ late in the second half for a big 3. Plenty of tools for him. 
 
Look it all comes down to it ,when your playing really good well coach teams you need to play  2 half’s well. We had a really bad 1st have with shooting so poorly it was amazing we got back in this with a chance to win. 40 mins of hell it was not. If it was at home a diff story against 1st half killed us
we have been asking   why we didn’t not see Coburn,the best 3 pt shooter on the team we need his shooting and ht at the guard position Any word was he hurt,or was his pa subjects getting in the way of his playing time 


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