(POST-GAME) DePaul, Sat., Feb. 20, 7:30p, FS-1 / 570 AM WMCA

We were outscored 58-18 in the paint.  That is the story of this game and we've seen this in prior games.  Must clean this up if we are to be a good team.  And we only lost by 5!  

Dunn is who is he.  He is serviceable and has value, however he must sit when we need points.  Cole needs to play more, especially when we are in a scoring drought.  Wusu and Dunne should not be on the court at the same time.  

I still love this team.   Go Johnnies!
 
Amaseinyourface" post=421227 said:
EliteBaller K" post=421167 said:
When you see that you gotta think cma doesn't care, I mean it's obvious that those 2 are better options over Dunn.


 

What do you mean by that? Obviously coach is trying to win. People will always feel differently about players but they aren’t playing guys they think make them worse.
So you think Cole or Williams is worse then Dunn? wow
Well I respective disagree there.

 
 
redrx" post=421276 said:
We were outscored 58-18 in the paint.  That is the story of this game and we've seen this in prior games.  Must clean this up if we are to be a good team.  And we only lost by 5!  

Dunn is who is he.  He is serviceable and has value, however he must sit when we need points.  Cole needs to play more, especially when we are in a scoring drought.  Wusu and Dunne should not be on the court at the same time.  

I still love this team.   Go Johnnies!

Enough of Cole!!!  He  can hit a few open threes occasionally but he is not going to change the game.  He's a very limited player.  Dunn had a bad game no doubt, but he is far more valuable.
 
EliteBaller K" post=421277 said:
Amaseinyourface" post=421227 said:
EliteBaller K" post=421167 said:
When you see that you gotta think cma doesn't care, I mean it's obvious that those 2 are better options over Dunn.



 

What do you mean by that? Obviously coach is trying to win. People will always feel differently about players but they aren’t playing guys they think make them worse.
So you think Cole or Williams is worse then Dunn? wow
Well I respective disagree there.

Williams is hurt and Cole is a one trick pony as I said at the outset of the season.  It's no coincidence that the team went on the streak when Dunn started playing well.  Like it or not, Dunn is a critical piece of this year's team.


 
 
EliteBaller K" post=421277 said:
Amaseinyourface" post=421227 said:
EliteBaller K" post=421167 said:
When you see that you gotta think cma doesn't care, I mean it's obvious that those 2 are better options over Dunn.




 

What do you mean by that? Obviously coach is trying to win. People will always feel differently about players but they aren’t playing guys they think make them worse.
So you think Cole or Williams is worse then Dunn? wow
Well I respective disagree there.



 

Over simplification and clearly not what he said.
 
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JohnnyFan" post=421282 said:
EliteBaller K" post=421277 said:
Amaseinyourface" post=421227 said:
EliteBaller K" post=421167 said:
When you see that you gotta think cma doesn't care, I mean it's obvious that those 2 are better options over Dunn.





 

What do you mean by that? Obviously coach is trying to win. People will always feel differently about players but they aren’t playing guys they think make them worse.
So you think Cole or Williams is worse then Dunn? wow
Well I respective disagree there.




 

Over simplification and clearly not what he said.
If they think Cole, Williams or Earl will make the team worse then with Dunn on the floor, then we are in some serious trouble.

Now all a w at Villanova does is put us back in the sdame place where we were before the DePaul game.
 
SLYFOXX1968" post=421256 said:
Mike had a bad game on the sidelines, it happens.

One thing missing was our Guards , notably Wusu and Dunn driving to the hoop and dishing off to Moore or Champy for the dunks we saw in prior games . They both continued to throw it up recklessly . And , that is why they should have been pulled.
I disagree that CMA had a bad game on the sidelines.  If he was shorthanded because of Williams not being healthy, that hurt us.  I'm sure the board would be criticizing him if we saw McGriff in the game. I do think, as I pointed out earlier, that using Roberts, at least, might have helped us on providing some interior defense, rather than trying to get DePaul to chase our quicker smaller guys.

And our quicker, smaller guys, like Wusu and Dunn, did try to penetrate and kick out.  DePaul clogged the middle or cut off passing lanes repeatedly; hence they tried to compensate with 3 point shooting.  But without penetrate and dish, it makes a perimeter game that much less effective.
 
Earlier on the topic, Sherman, Sheridan & Grant mentioned something about the team still being in for a NIT bid. Is there still going to be the NIT this post season ?  The Men's & Women's  NCAA  tourneys are being played in bubbles in order to cut down the risk of infections.  They would not do it for a tourney that don't make much money or just have the teams just travel to game sites where players are at risk of being infected very  easily.  The NCAA ( & major power 5 conferences) was very public about how much money was lost by not having March Madness last year so having a non revenue event taking place is not really good for business. 
 
You could see it in the rushed shots. The heavy volume of 3-point attempts. The desperate hunting for steals that led to easy layups.St. John’s pressed Saturday night. It’s youth was apparent. In a must-win game, it could feel the pressure. Once it got down in the second half, the hole was dug deeper — too deep to rally from in a devastating 88-83 home loss to DePaul, the worst team in the Big East.It was obvious this was new for this team. Being expected to win is different.

After winning six straight games, the Johnnies have lost two of three, falling to Butler and DePaul. They have struggled as the hunted.For a few weeks now I’ve said Alexander is St. John’s most valuable player. It has been abundantly clear in the two recent losses. When he’s not at his best, this team struggles. This season, when Alexander doesn’t score in double figures, St. John’s is 3-7, and it is 0-6 in league play. It’s a lot to put on the shoulders of a freshman.

St. John’s didn’t bring the needed effort and intensity from the jump, and this team isn’t good enough to spot anyone 14 points. Coach Mike Anderson felt the Johnnies looked past DePaul after beating them by 13 on the road earlier this season. Champagnie said they didn’t play with a sense of urgency until it was too late.You can fault the coaching staff or the players. It’s on everyone. It may end up costing this group a real shot at the NCAA Tournament.Greg Williams Jr. played just 10 minutes in the loss and was a non-factor. He took a knee to the lower back early on and wasn’t the same, the lower-back injury that has hampered him for weeks now flaring up. A junior and a team captain, Williams has been sorely missed in the losses to Butler and DePaul. He’s one of the team’s best shooters, a quality defender and ball-mover.

While Williams was mostly absent during the team’s win streak, you had to expect regression from others. That’s where Williams would be so vital. With Rasheem Dunn struggling mightily on Saturday, shooting 1-for-10 and committing six turnovers, Anderson could’ve turned to Williams. The back prevented him from doing that.

I’m intrigued to see how this team responds to the worst loss of the Anderson era. The remaining schedule is difficult — a trip to No. 10 Villanova on Tuesday followed by home games against Providence and Seton Hall following an eight-day layoff. But remember, this group was left for dead at 1-5 in the league. It picked itself off the mat. The Johnnies are in an incredibly tough spot, having to go to Philadelphia and face the Wildcats, who will be out for revenge after their lopsided loss to St. John’s in Queens on Feb. 3. The Red Storm’s very best will be needed. Forget any Bracketology and NET talk. St. John’s has to find a way to win Tuesday or the only way it is going dancing is by winning the Big East Tournament.

 The offseason mission for this coaching staff is simple: Find a quality big man. It is a gaping hole and has been for years, dating back to the previous coaching staff. George Washington graduate transfer Arnaldo Toro hasn’t been the answer. Josh Roberts has seen his playing time dwindle and hasn’t been nearly as effective of late. Isaih Moore has been a bright spot, but he would be better playing next to a true center.DePaul crushed St. John’s inside, out-scoring them 58-18 in the paint. Butler had similar success. Providence’s Nate Watson had his way against the Johnnies in a recent game. St. John’s is last in the Big East in rebounding margin at -2.0 and next to last in defensive rebounding percentage at 69.3 percent. It has nobody who can score in the post. And while recruits Esahia Nyiwe and O’mar Stanley may help, neither is a proven commodity.

https://nypost.com/2021/02/21/st-johns-crumbled-under-pressure-at-worst-possible-time/
 
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We got destroyed in the paint 58-18 , Dunn while I love his warrior spirit had a horrible game and still makes too many low basketball IQ plays for my liking. Although, he has had his moments. Not having a healthy Williams affects us much than anyone really wants to admit. He's shooting over 40% from 3 and is an exceptional on ball defender in addition to his ability to get to the rim when healthy. We needed that last night especially with Dunn and Wusu not playing well. We still only lost by 5 and I think if we have Greg at 100% last night we win with him taking most of Dunn and Wusu's minutes. But, with Williams hurt, Wusu being a frosh  and Dunn not playing well we had no one to go to. Nothing we can do about our current roster deficiencies right now. The team has still exceeded expectations and we'll see what the rest of the season brings. But, for next season a few things have to happen. 
1) if Dunn wants to come back fine but McGriff needs to transfer and we need to bring in a grad transfer combo guard to protect against Williams being chronically injured and Dunn just totally losing himself at times. Wusu I expect will improve and they need to get Williams to a back specialist or something. Pinzon will be a Freshman and we'll anoth guard with experience. 
2) we were killed in the paint. We are getting Niywe next season who's supposed to be a rim protector and this kid Omar Stanley is 6'8 245. But, it's obvious that Josh Roberts, while a good kid, is not a Big East caliber player. He needs to transfer and we need to bring in a grad transfer big with experience to go along with Niywe and Stanley. Also, Moore needs to hit the weight room hard. 

If we move on from a couple of guys and bring in a couple of grad transfers, a big and a combo guard who can actually contribute then, with the guys we already have and the freshman class we have coming in we can protect against what happened last night from happening next season.  We needed Williams but he wasn't healthy, Dunn was just in a total funk and CMA didn't trust going to McGriff. We got killed inside and Roberts was completely ineffective and the way he blew that fast break dunk, OMG! I really believe that if the staff makes the right moves and with most of the team starting the season with a solid foundation with regard to our system , that we can be a Top 25 team next season. 
 
I was in DC and not near a T.V., boy am I glad. Left my cell home by mistake so couldn't even check on the score.

Bad loss, glad I missed it.

I said before this game that too many post _ Xavier comments were overlooking a DeP team with good players, and they played better than us last night. We had posters figuring us into the sweet 16 for goodness sake, come on.

Re-group, dust yourself off, put the ugly loss in the rear view mirror, and take the rest of the games one at a time, and we'll see what happens.

CMA didn't go from being a great coach to a lousy one and these players didn't go from warriors to slugs in one bad loss.
 
To me, the last two paragraphs of Zach's article sums it up.  I didn't see yesterday as a big let down in effort, as much as it was an exploitation of a major weakness (or as Zach put it...."a gaping hole")

Still love this team and I am exceptionally impressed with Mike Anderson.  That said, our prospects are limited with that gaping hole.  This offseason, the big man problem needs to be rectified once and for all.  It's gotta be a top priority.
 
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I like Dunn. He's a team leader and plays well within Anderson's system. Dunn fills an important role.

Things get ugly when he tries to do too much. That's usually happens when the team is already down and in trouble. Dunn tries too hard and takes bad shots. That's fixable. Coach Anderson can recalibrate his thinking. It may take sitting him on the bench for a game or two. That's the coach''s decision.

Right now they need Dunn for the last three games. A good butt chewing will have to do.
 
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If Coach Leitao can figure out that when you overplay Champagnie and Posh the remaining St. John's players will wind up out of rhythm, not seeing their team mates or defenders, and trying to do too much, overcompensating for the disruption of their offensive game.  People revert to their bad habits.  Problem is, now fully expect Cooley to use similar approach.
 
EliteBaller K" post=421277 said:
Amaseinyourface" post=421227 said:
EliteBaller K" post=421167 said:
When you see that you gotta think cma doesn't care, I mean it's obvious that those 2 are better options over Dunn.



 

What do you mean by that? Obviously coach is trying to win. People will always feel differently about players but they aren’t playing guys they think make them worse.
So you think Cole or Williams is worse then Dunn? wow
Well I respective disagree there.


 

Your response tells me everything I needed to know
 
Credit to DePaul, thought they showed no fear, really took the game to us and we had no answer.  They were clearly much more athletic, quicker and stronger.  Our guards collectively had the worst game I have seen this year.  For those blaming the coach for not having this player in instead of that player; not sure that applies when no one is playing well.  

Very disappointing loss, but have to look at the season in whole not in pieces.  Let's play it out and see where we land.  Personally speaking never thought we were an NCAA team coming into season!
 
Amaseinyourface" post=421319 said:
EliteBaller K" post=421277 said:
Amaseinyourface" post=421227 said:
EliteBaller K" post=421167 said:
When you see that you gotta think cma doesn't care, I mean it's obvious that those 2 are better options over Dunn.




 

What do you mean by that? Obviously coach is trying to win. People will always feel differently about players but they aren’t playing guys they think make them worse.
So you think Cole or Williams is worse then Dunn? wow
Well I respective disagree there.



 

Your response tells me everything I needed to know

My opinion here... No question Cole is worst than Dunn.  He is a MUCH better shooter outside of that tell me one thing he's better at than Dunn?  In regards to Williams, I think he's probably our 3rd best player when healthy but unfortunately that does not seem to be the case right now.  
 
 
Money" post=421323 said:
Amaseinyourface" post=421319 said:
EliteBaller K" post=421277 said:
Amaseinyourface" post=421227 said:
EliteBaller K" post=421167 said:
When you see that you gotta think cma doesn't care, I mean it's obvious that those 2 are better options over Dunn.





 

What do you mean by that? Obviously coach is trying to win. People will always feel differently about players but they aren’t playing guys they think make them worse.
So you think Cole or Williams is worse then Dunn? wow
Well I respective disagree there.




 

Your response tells me everything I needed to know

My opinion here... No question Cole is worst than Dunn.  He is a MUCH better shooter outside of that tell me one thing he's better at than Dunn?  In regards to Williams, I think he's probably our 3rd best player when healthy but unfortunately that does not seem to be the case right now.  

 

I wasn’t even discussing who’s better. I was commenting about the poster saying CMA doesn’t care. Whatever that is supposed to mean?

I’ve been vocal all year that I think Williams should be starting 2g.
 
kranmars" post=421265 said:
There is no excuse for this game. When you are scratching and crawling for a NCAA tourney bid, you must find a way to beat an inferior opponent.
For all of the steps forward this team made, a loss like this moves  them one giant step backwards.
And it hurts even more after Seton Hall lost. 
This team has zero margin for error now. Win out, and win at least two games in BE tournament, just to have a prayer.
Yes, sorry folks, I am still salty. 

As we use to scream in the 60's NIT NIT NIT
 
 
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