(POST GAME) #18 Seton Hall (MSG), Sat. Jan. 18, NOON, FOX / 570 WMCA

[quote="mjmaherjr" post=373290][quote="Logen" post=373237]So I have a different view; we did not lose this game because Roberts missed free throws or we didn’t make 3’s; Roberts shoots 33% and everyone knows we are offensively challenged. We were let down by our defense and our own unintelligent play. Examples, how many times in the 2nd half did Powell drive some 20-30 feet to lay the ball in with no real challenging rotation to maybe pick up a charge or make him pass? Too many. How many open set your feet jump shots did SHU get in the 2nd half after virtually none in the 1st. SHU had 15 turnovers at the half and not a one or even a sniff of one at the 10 minute mark of the 2nd half. After a tenacious impressive effort on D in the 1st half, we came out the opposite in the 2nd. Lack of focus and effort.
Unintelligent plays, two examples, down the stretch, Figueroa gets his 4th foul at somewhere around the 3 minute or so mark reaching 30 feet from the basket with SHU in no kind of offensive set, sending them to the line for nothing. He then fouls out a minute or so later.
A bit after the Figueroa 4th foul, Dunn commits, IMO, an equally unnecessary foul around mid court, diving on a player on the ground. Not a bad play in the 1st half of a game but horrible in that situation, you surround the player and make him make a play from his back, you don’t bail him out and send him to the line.
I don’t believe in moral victories and this team snatches defeat from the jaws of victory. No reason we are 1-5 in BE play except we beat ourselves. Others may disagree but I am sure I will make people on the board happy because I am out of here for a while. Just too frustrating to me and that is on me and my fanaticism, I get that.[/quote] pretty fair analysis[/quote]

I don’t agree. I think even today we played waaaaay above our level of talent. It was all guts and heart. Near losses don’t mean anything in the grand scheme, but I never thought we are going anywhere this year. We have no talent scoring the ball at all and our defense was tremendous for the majority of the day. It could have went either way and they had miles Powell. If we had Ponds today we woulda crushed them. Need more talented guys offensively.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=373284]Good observations by everyone. This game was ours but we found a way to lose in the last 5 minutes by combination of poor foul shooting by Roberts and poor game management by coach Anderson. Both of which are interrelated. Everyone in the building knew the Hall would foul Roberts liberally because putting him on the line is equivalent to a turnover. Steere has a softer touch and likely could have made those shots. He played 4 excellent minutes in the 1st half. His absence in the 2nd half was a Mullinesque level blunder on CMA's part. While we played good overall defense the defense on Powell was horrendous. None of our guards could stay with him. He was our only opponent in the last few minutes and there should have been a defensive assignment adjustment by coach. That never happened and while Rutherford played a decent game he was no match playing Myles alone as he drove by Rutherford at will. This is the first game where I thought the coaching decisions were as much a factor as our poor play. It's a shame this happened in a game where Mustapha Heron finally played a complete game. While Figgy played ok for the most part his defense is almost on a high school level. Part of that is the fact that he has poor lateral movement and bad hands on defense.
This game should have been a W.[/quote]
Good post. Where I disagree is on Rutherfords defense of Powell. He played him very tough all day but DIDN'T stay in front of him at the end. Not because he couldn’t. For some reason, he overplayed him looking to steal ball when all he had to do was play honest defense which he does extremely well.

In fact, I think Gill was the difference maker. Think we win by 6-10 without his shot blocking and altering. His impact was such that, despite having four fouls, Willard brought him back quickly...as soon as he saw Dunn starting to penetrate at will. Powell couldn’t stay in front of him.

Agree on all other points and think we could have and should have won. And, like Jack Williams, I predicted a win and was not, in the least, surprised by the competitiveness of the game.
 
[quote="mjmaherjr" post=373288][quote="Monte" post=373221]Where was Sears?[/quote] macys[/quote]
You mean Gimbels. Lol
 
[quote="Section3" post=373303][quote="mjmaherjr" post=373288][quote="Monte" post=373221]Where was Sears?[/quote] macys[/quote]
You mean Gimbels. Lol[/quote] Well now I know you are a little older than me :)
 
These kids are playing their behinds off from an effort standpoint and not sure what more we can ask. Easy to critique LJ or Heron for "regressing" or Dunn for not passing enough but reality is we are in a tough league and are where we were picked to be after exceeding OOC expectations. I still think NIT and an above 500 record is achievable which would be a very good year imho.
 
[quote="dee" post=373277]I think Anderson has found out just how tough eastern basketball is. He can prepare for his first losing season[/quote]

Something tells me that CMA has been around long enough and is astute enough to know that a losing season was a distinct possibly. Even if he isn’t willing to admit it to the players and fans.
 
Here's my take ..... this is a flawed St. John's roster with a number of mid major players playing against top opposing talent.

The teams results exceed the sum of its individual parts.

So no, I also don;t like "moral victories" but realism leads me to believe that Coach Anderson and staff are doing a solid job being competitive this season with the depleted roster he was left with. I will have greater expectations next season, and more the year thereafter.
 
[quote="otis" post=373308]Here's my take ..... this is a flawed St. John's roster with a number of mid major players playing against top opposing talent.

The teams results exceed the sum of its individual parts.

So no, I also don;t like "moral victories" but realism leads me to believe that Coach Anderson and staff are doing a solid job being competitive this season with the depleted roster he was left with. I will have greater expectations next season, and more the year thereafter.[/quote]

Well said Otis, my man!!!
 
[quote="Monte" post=373307][quote="dee" post=373277]I think Anderson has found out just how tough eastern basketball is. He can prepare for his first losing season[/quote]

Something tells me that CMA has been around long enough and is astute enough to know that a losing season was a distinct possibly. Even if he isn’t willing to admit it to the players and fans.[/quote]

Someone like coach Anderson has never had a losing season because he never starts a season thinking he could have a losing season. All he needs to do is win 4 of the last 12 games to go 16-15. Even if we get bounced in the first game of the Big East tournament he finishes at 500. If these players are at their best in February wins over Arizona and WV will not have been flukes. We have had only two really bad games and 4 of our losses, including today's loss to the Hall, could have been wins. I know that it is "coulda shouda" but this very flawed team could just as easily be 16-3 and be nationally ranked.
And no, Claas of 72 was not hijacked by anyone.
 
[quote="Knight" post=373210]Caraher too slow in these games.[/quote]

Really? All that happened in this game and that's your big takeaway, taking a shot at a guy who had little to nothing to do with the final score? C'mon!

We lost this game because we have a div 1 player who can't make the simplest of shots. It's called a "free" throw for a reason. All over the east coast today 4th graders played in cold gyms and 95% of those kids have a better shot at making a free throw than Josh Roberts. How sad is that? Meanwhile, Hall's awful foul shooter goes to the line late and drills two. Nearly as bad, we all know he's going to miss, and the players in the lane aren't actively seeking an offensive rebound. You'd think the coach or one of his 23 assistants would alert someone to that.
Team just needs to learn how to win, they are competitive, what they lack in talent they make up for in other areas. Just need to figure out how to finish a game off.
 
Re-watching game now, and focused on Steere's four minutes. I know Roberts played well (less end of game FT's), but Steere steemed OK to me with the putback, a block, hustled. I know he had two fouls but from my average eye, seemed to warrant more minutes than just that 4 min run in first half.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=373310][quote="Monte" post=373307][quote="dee" post=373277]I think Anderson has found out just how tough eastern basketball is. He can prepare for his first losing season[/quote]

Something tells me that CMA has been around long enough and is astute enough to know that a losing season was a distinct possibly. Even if he isn’t willing to admit it to the players and fans.[/quote]

Someone like coach Anderson has never had a losing season because he never starts a season thinking he could have a losing season. All he needs to do is win 4 of the last 12 games to go 16-15. Even if we get bounced in the first game of the Big East tournament he finishes at 500. If these players are at their best in February wins over Arizona and WV will not have been flukes. We have had only two really bad games and 4 of our losses, including today's loss to the Hall, could have been wins. I know that it is "coulda shouda" but this very flawed team could just as easily be 16-3 and be nationally ranked.
And no, Claas of 72 was not hijacked by anyone.[/quote]

I know you're old enough and wise enough to know that under no circumstance are we a 16-3 team, I don't care how many close games we've played. . We play just well enough and hard enough to keep things close, but we are not near the same level as Nova, Hall and Butler, regardless of how close we've played them. Of course CMA doesn't expect to finish the season under .500, but he knew damn well what he was getting himself in to, and that it was a distinct possibility that he may have his first loosing season. He's a good coach, not a miracle worker.
 
The Johnnies had impressive numbers against the Pirates. A major improvement over the cringe worthy Providence game.

Powell's performance was on an entirely different level. He's currently one of the top players in the college game. The Pirates should have a deep run in the NCAA tournament this year.

The Johnnies will get there. Coach Anderson needs time to recruit talent that can compete with the top teams. This year's team certainly surprised a lot of people that predicted a blow out against SH.
[URL]https://www.newsday.com/sports...pha-heron-lj-figueroa-josh-roberts-1.40762891[/URL]
The Red Storm got 20 points off 19 turnovers, had 15 offensive rebounds, 18 second-chance points and 36 points in the paint. Big guns Mustapha Heron and LJ Figueroa both played well and combined to shoot 50 percent. And Josh Roberts tied a career high in scoring.

The one thing St. John’s didn’t have in its mix was an answer for Pirates star Myles Powell and that made all the difference. The 6-2 senior guard scored 23 of his 29 points in the second half – including the 2,000th of his career – as Seton Hall erased a 13-point halftime deficit and walked out with an 82-79 Big East win before 10,428.
Click to expand...
 
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Loved the effort today. While we didn't shoot well, we did shoot better. Both Heron and LJ played well, although some of LJ's fouls are mindless.

Glad to see Roberts get back to playing aggressive. Obviously he needs work at the line.

Dunn's pass in the paint to Roberts was really a thing of beauty. I would like to see him dish off the drive ore often.

Paultz mentioned it earlier in the week and I concurred.....Romero Gil's improvement from last year is remarkable!

Lastly, I think we win four more BE games which would make us 16-15 (a winning season for CMA).

Prediction.....at some point (this year or next), Greg Williams Jr, will become a consistent scoring threat.
 
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[quote="RedStormNC" post=373315]Re-watching game now, and focused on Steere's four minutes. I know Roberts played well (less end of game FT's), but Steere steemed OK to me with the putback, a block, hustled. I know he had two fouls but from my average eye, seemed to warrant more minutes than just that 4 min run in first half.[/quote]
————-

CMA decided to go with the experienced player rather than the less experienced player.

Prior to today Mr. Steere had played in just 3 games in a StJohn’s uniform, averaged 3..6 minutes in those 3 previous games, had not previously grabbed a single rebound iand never hit a single field goal.

That having been said Steele’s slam off of the rebound was impressive and hopefully a sign of thing to come but the CMA’s decision today to go with the more experienced play against the ranked opponent was not unreasonable.
 
[quote="Ken Shark" post=373312][quote="Knight" post=373210]Caraher too slow in these games.[/quote]

Really? All that happened in this game and that's your big takeaway, taking a shot at a guy who had little to nothing to do with the final score? C'mon!

We lost this game because we have a div 1 player who can't make the simplest of shots. It's called a "free" throw for a reason. All over the east coast today 4th graders played in cold gyms and 95% of those kids have a better shot at making a free throw than Josh Roberts. How sad is that? Meanwhile, Hall's awful foul shooter goes to the line late and drills two. Nearly as bad, we all know he's going to miss, and the players in the lane aren't actively seeking an offensive rebound. You'd think the coach or one of his 23 assistants would alert someone to that.
Team just needs to learn how to win, they are competitive, what they lack in talent they make up for in other areas. Just need to figure out how to finish a game off.[/quote]
Should have told the 6'4 Earlington to go over the top of the 7'2 Gill. :dry:
 
[quote="Monte" post=373207]With LJ on the bench, not many options for us at the end. They ain’t letting Heron get anything close to an open look, and who else is gonna take the 3? Nothing we can do, we’re short on talent. Big on heart though.[/quote]
That is why caraher had to be on the floor
 
There is a saying I heard in the 60's that is just as true today. A team that presses doesnt like to be pressed. That is what seton hall did to us in the second half. You beat the pressing team with a press
Btw if Anderson's 40 minute press is so great how come we dont see teams like that every year in the final four? Because you need to diversify your defenses. CMA only plays one way. It's time to change game strategy
 
I realize there is a post game thread for yesterday but.........
Extremely disappointed in the development or lack of with this team. We are built on defense and yet the commitment to that is hit or miss and the long stretches of going through the motions that cost us games has bewildered me. Several very basic defensive concepts that we did to perfection in the 1st half -
Making the ball handler turn, allowed the weak side player to attack and double with the ball handler unaware because his back is to the man doubling. That takes hard work by the man on the ball and we were able to get several steals and easy baskets from that hard work.
Help defense, rotation - SHU had very few, if any, uncontested layups in the 1st half
Double teams in the backcourt - timely and suffocating, again, led to several easy baskets. The easy baskets from our defense was the difference between scoring 43 or 30 and being up double digits or even.
Unfortunately, as has all too often been the case, we played one half with that hustle and effort. The 2nd half was just a completely different team IMO.
Offense - just tired and disgusted watching SJU play nothing but “hero” ball down the stretch of games. Passing becomes non-existent, and Dunn goes into Michael Jordan mode. Not knocking Dunn but where is the coaching, how about a pick or two for Heron? How about something except one on one, or one on two or three?
Figueroa has gone from a heady all around contributor to I don’t know what? Is anyone telling him that reaching 30 feet from the basket is a dumb play, especially down the stretch of a one possession game? Is anyone telling him staying on the court is important, vital to this team? It has happened far too often and is inexplicable to me.
Anyway, I have to step away from this team and program; I have been rooting, like many here, for decades and I just have had it with dumb, hit or miss effort basketball. I can take losing but I just have seen too much bad basketball and I cannot wrap my head around lack of effort and continual unintelligent play anymore.
 
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