(POST GAME) #18 Seton Hall (MSG), Sat. Jan. 18, NOON, FOX / 570 WMCA

[quote="fan5577" post=373383]1- I watched the game on TV. When Steere was in there at one point CMA was yelling at him to run. CMA seems to have a problem with his ability to get up and down the court. He also seemed to have a few defensive lapses in the paint that led to easy baskets.
2- I know losing like this (close and cant close) consistently is having an effect on me, a fan, my concern is what is this doing to the teams attitude? They really looked dejected after this game. How much fight is left in this dog? They need a win one of these games badly.
3- I agree with the poster who said the "hero ball" at the end of the game is frustrating. A small point guard like Dunn consistently going one on one ca be tough to watch, but watching the games this year I do not see where Heron having the ball for a key shot down the stretch is a guaranteed better option. He missed a lot of open jumpers down the stretch.[/quote]

FYI, Heron did not take a shot the final 5+ minutes.
 
[quote="Knight" post=373384][quote="fan5577" post=373383]1- I watched the game on TV. When Steere was in there at one point CMA was yelling at him to run. CMA seems to have a problem with his ability to get up and down the court. He also seemed to have a few defensive lapses in the paint that led to easy baskets.
2- I know losing like this (close and cant close) consistently is having an effect on me, a fan, my concern is what is this doing to the teams attitude? They really looked dejected after this game. How much fight is left in this dog? They need a win one of these games badly.
3- I agree with the poster who said the "hero ball" at the end of the game is frustrating. A small point guard like Dunn consistently going one on one ca be tough to watch, but watching the games this year I do not see where Heron having the ball for a key shot down the stretch is a guaranteed better option. He missed a lot of open jumpers down the stretch.[/quote]

FYI, Heron did not take a shot the final 5+ minutes.[/quote]

Yeah Steere isn’t slow. He just doesn’t know how to hustle and that’s his downfall. At this rate he isn’t gonna last here. Jogging up and down the court isn’t gonna work in this system for Mike Anderson. He’s got talent but he plays the game like a lamb, not a lion. We need lions.
 
[quote="fan5577" post=373383]1- I watched the game on TV. When Steere was in there at one point CMA was yelling at him to run. CMA seems to have a problem with his ability to get up and down the court. He also seemed to have a few defensive lapses in the paint that led to easy baskets.
2- I know losing like this (close and cant close) consistently is having an effect on me, a fan, my concern is what is this doing to the teams attitude? They really looked dejected after this game. How much fight is left in this dog? They need a win one of these games badly.
3- I agree with the poster who said the "hero ball" at the end of the game is frustrating. A small point guard like Dunn consistently going one on one ca be tough to watch, but watching the games this year I do not see where Heron having the ball for a key shot down the stretch is a guaranteed better option. He missed a lot of open jumpers down the stretch.[/quote]

2. I hope they have fight in them, if not then cma's streak will be over
 
Knight wrote: FYI, Heron did not take a shot the final 5+ minutes.

Never let the facts get in the way of the desired narrative...
 
[quote="JohnnyFan" post=373364]I am surprised about how many posters are confident that McGriff can make an impact at the BE level as a freshman. That would be amazing, but do we actually have any reason to believe this is the case?[/quote]

He'll be a freshman eligibility-wise, but don't forget he'll have a year of college under his belt. I'm not sure how much training/practicing he's currently doing, if he travels with the team or not, or what he is/is not permitted to from a redshirt perspective. Either way, he won't have to adjust to the college lifestyle like the typical freshman. It may not seem like a big deal, but I think that makes a huge difference.
 
[quote="Eric Williamson" post=373396][quote="JohnnyFan" post=373364]I am surprised about how many posters are confident that McGriff can make an impact at the BE level as a freshman. That would be amazing, but do we actually have any reason to believe this is the case?[/quote]

He'll be a freshman eligibility-wise, but don't forget he'll have a year of college under his belt. I'm not sure how much training/practicing he's currently doing, if he travels with the team or not, or what he is/is not permitted to from a redshirt perspective. Either way, he won't have to adjust to the college lifestyle like the typical freshman. It may not seem like a big deal, but I think that makes a huge difference.[/quote]

Nothing at all against McGriff , and I was thrilled when he signed on so late, as I was with Rutherford, Champagnie and Sears, as he was the only pg on the roster at that point in time. But let’s not forget he is 5 9 at best, with a very slight frame, was known to be a good ball handler but not a great shooter, and was ranked similiar to what Eugene Lawrence was. Why anyone believes he will have an impact at the BE level is just beyond me.
Next year I would be very surprised to see him get pt barring serious injury to Dunn or Posh. There is absolutely nothing to indicate that he will be an impact player at this level in the foreseeable future.
 
[quote="redmannorth" post=373398][quote="Eric Williamson" post=373396][quote="JohnnyFan" post=373364]I am surprised about how many posters are confident that McGriff can make an impact at the BE level as a freshman. That would be amazing, but do we actually have any reason to believe this is the case?[/quote]

He'll be a freshman eligibility-wise, but don't forget he'll have a year of college under his belt. I'm not sure how much training/practicing he's currently doing, if he travels with the team or not, or what he is/is not permitted to from a redshirt perspective. Either way, he won't have to adjust to the college lifestyle like the typical freshman. It may not seem like a big deal, but I think that makes a huge difference.[/quote]

Nothing at all against McGriff , and I was thrilled when he signed on so late, as I was with Rutherford, Champagnie and Sears, as he was the only pg on the roster at that point in time. But let’s not forget he is 5 9 at best, with a very slight frame, was known to be a good ball handler but not a great shooter, and was ranked similiar to what Eugene Lawrence was. Why anyone believes he will have an impact at the BE level is just beyond me.
Next year I would be very surprised to see him get pt barring serious injury to Dunn or Posh. There is absolutely nothing to indicate that he will be an impact player at this level in the foreseeable future.[/quote]

Agree completely RN. At least Rutherford has a man’s body. At best, I was hoping McGrifff would be a 4 year contributor. And I was expecting very little from him this year.
 
[quote="Monte" post=373316][quote="Class of 72" post=373310][quote="Monte" post=373307][quote="dee" post=373277]I think Anderson has found out just how tough eastern basketball is. He can prepare for his first losing season[/quote]

Something tells me that CMA has been around long enough and is astute enough to know that a losing season was a distinct possibly. Even if he isn’t willing to admit it to the players and fans.[/quote]

Someone like coach Anderson has never had a losing season because he never starts a season thinking he could have a losing season. All he needs to do is win 4 of the last 12 games to go 16-15. Even if we get bounced in the first game of the Big East tournament he finishes at 500. If these players are at their best in February wins over Arizona and WV will not have been flukes. We have had only two really bad games and 4 of our losses, including today's loss to the Hall, could have been wins. I know that it is "coulda shouda" but this very flawed team could just as easily be 16-3 and be nationally ranked.
And no, Claas of 72 was not hijacked by anyone.[/quote]

I know you're old enough and wise enough to know that under no circumstance are we a 16-3 team, I don't care how many close games we've played. . We play just well enough and hard enough to keep things close, but we are not near the same level as Nova, Hall and Butler, regardless of how close we've played them. Of course CMA doesn't expect to finish the season under .500, but he knew damn well what he was getting himself in to, and that it was a distinct possibility that he may have his first loosing season. He's a good coach, not a miracle worker.[/quote]

You don't care how close we play teams? (we led the Hall until the final 60 seconds). You should accept that lower ranked players can be coached to wins which is why we compete to begin with. Why play nationally ranked teams if we can't believe we can win? Sure, they may have 3 Mickey D all Americans but I still believe that this team, when playing on all cylinders, can beat anyone in the Big East. In this game we lost because Robers missed 4 straight freebies in the final minutes and because our best scoring option fouled himself out of the game. Frankly, I also think that CMA had a brain fart with not playing Steere in the 2nd half. I think we ( you, me, coach and most fans except Fun and Marillac) hope we win every game we play. That's why we watch.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=373406][quote="Monte" post=373316][quote="Class of 72" post=373310][quote="Monte" post=373307][quote="dee" post=373277]I think Anderson has found out just how tough eastern basketball is. He can prepare for his first losing season[/quote]

Something tells me that CMA has been around long enough and is astute enough to know that a losing season was a distinct possibly. Even if he isn’t willing to admit it to the players and fans.[/quote]

Someone like coach Anderson has never had a losing season because he never starts a season thinking he could have a losing season. All he needs to do is win 4 of the last 12 games to go 16-15. Even if we get bounced in the first game of the Big East tournament he finishes at 500. If these players are at their best in February wins over Arizona and WV will not have been flukes. We have had only two really bad games and 4 of our losses, including today's loss to the Hall, could have been wins. I know that it is "coulda shouda" but this very flawed team could just as easily be 16-3 and be nationally ranked.
And no, Claas of 72 was not hijacked by anyone.[/quote]

I know you're old enough and wise enough to know that under no circumstance are we a 16-3 team, I don't care how many close games we've played. . We play just well enough and hard enough to keep things close, but we are not near the same level as Nova, Hall and Butler, regardless of how close we've played them. Of course CMA doesn't expect to finish the season under .500, but he knew damn well what he was getting himself in to, and that it was a distinct possibility that he may have his first loosing season. He's a good coach, not a miracle worker.[/quote]

You don't care how close we play teams? (we led the Hall until the final 60 seconds). You should accept that lower ranked players can be coached to wins which is why we compete to begin with. Why play nationally ranked teams if we can't believe we can win? Sure, they may have 3 Mickey D all Americans but I still believe that this team, when playing on all cylinders, can beat anyone in the Big East. In this game we lost because Robers missed 4 straight freebies in the final minutes and because our best scoring option fouled himself out of the game. Frankly, I also think that CMA had a brain fart with not playing Steere in the 2nd half. I think we ( you, me, coach and most fans except Fun and Marillac) hope we win every game we play. That's why we watch.[/quote]

I never said I don't care how much we lose by. I'm thrilled that we are competitive in all our games. That's why I enjoy watching this team. And yes, we are capable of beating any big east team on any given day. . We can also loose every game from here on out and I wouldn't be shocked. I don't expect that to happen, but I wouldn't be shocked. Regardless of the games we could have won(there are also games that we won, which we could have lost), we are what our record says we are, and that's 1-4 in the Big East. And we will likely finish at or near last place, right where we were expected to finish. If that happens, I'd still be happy with the job CMA did with these kids, and happy with the effort these kids put forth.
 
[quote="newsman13" post=373352][quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=373212][quote="Sju grad 13" post=373205]Simply put..... Seton Hall has way more talent than we do.[/quote] They do, that’s why you really can’t get that upset w the loss but 1-5 in conference is tough to swallow even w our warts.[/quote]

Virtually the entire league has more talent...and with no game breakers...it'll be more of the same next season.[/quote] League's going to lose a lot of talent next year, though. Powell's a senior, Howard's a senior, Baldwin and McDermott are seniors, Moore from DePaul is a grad transfer, just to name a few. Xavier starts two seniors. Diallo is also gone after this year (although they'll have a nice returning group). Even if those teams bring in good players (which I'm sure they will), they'll miss the experienced leadership all those guys brought. League will be a bit down (it just can't possibly go up next year), and I think we can move up quite a bit in the standings. Then, in 20-21, we'll have the experience factor on our side. After that, it will be a matter of stayong experienced, in the years to follow.
 
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I agree with Zach B

“A lot has been made of St. John’s declining to acknowledge Seton Hall star Myles Powell reaching 2,000 points for his career early in the second half of the Pirates’ 82-79 victory Saturday at the Garden. I had no problem with the route the Red Storm took, after Seton Hall asked them pregame if they would. This was their home game, their arena, against a rival. Instead, Powell will be honored at Prudential Center before Wednesday’s home game against Providence. Had Powell set the school’s all-time scoring record or reached a major Big East mark, I would feel differently. I’ve seen home teams handle such situations in different ways. But St. John’s didn’t owe Powell or Seton Hall anything.”

https://nypost.com/2020/01/19/college-basketballs-extreme-parity-is-perfect-for-madness/
 
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[quote="Paultzman" post=373414]I agree with Zach B

“A lot has been made of St. John’s declining to acknowledge Seton Hall star Myles Powell reaching 2,000 points for his career early in the second half of the Pirates’ 82-79 victory Saturday at the Garden. I had no problem with the route the Red Storm took, after Seton Hall asked them pregame if they would. This was their home game, their arena, against a rival. Instead, Powell will be honored at Prudential Center before Wednesday’s home game against Providence. Had Powell set the school’s all-time scoring record or reached a major Big East mark, I would feel differently. I’ve seen home teams handle such situations in different ways. But St. John’s didn’t owe Powell or Seton Hall anything.”

https://nypost.com/2020/01/19/college-basketballs-extreme-parity-is-perfect-for-madness/[/quote]

Agree. Why would st john acknowledge anything myles powell did? He doesnt play for us.
 
First of all, say it was someone who played for Butler or Marquette. The crowd would be overwhelmingly a St. John's crowd and had we done it there would be a polite smattering of applause.

Saturday's crowd was somewhere between 30 to 45% Seton Hall. Had we announced it, their fans would have made a ton of noise, been energized, and it would turn into an away atmosphere for us. As it is, it is a little embarrassing that a competitive team such as our draws so poorly when then is no expectation of an NCAA bid.
 
Thanks for all the above posts and observations.
Seems to me we’ll be fine in the longer run.
In the shorter run it’s anyone’s guess.
As indicated we could lose or win every game ahead.
I hope Coach keeps his non-Losing streak intact.
But I doubt he’s losing sleep over it.
He ( and we ) know it’s the long haul.
He’s been here, what 9 months?
He inherited not much and our two ostensible stars have not played up to their billing.
Even though we’ve endured many lousy years and incapable coaches, I like what I see from Mike Anderson, his staff, his style...
His players play hard, he’s willing to substitute when it makes sense...I think we’ll be fine - just not necessarily 2019-20.
We’re going in the right direction.
Go Johnnies.
All the best.
 
Powell is a true warrior on the court. He plays with passion and is fearless. Scoring 2,000 points is a nice milestone in his career, but it's been done before. Let him enjoy the applause on his court on Seton Hall time. If he makes the NBA, he can be introduced along with others when attending a St. John's vs. Seton Hall game sometime down the road.
 
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I cannot possibly see how anyone could think that any of our guys dogged it on the court on Saturday. We played a ranked team that clearly had more talent and size than us and took them down to the wire. For nearly an entire game, we defended nose to nose full court and our guys held their own against a superior team. For the last few minutes of the game it was entirely a 1 or 2 possession game. SHU made their free throws, and in a critical moment, we did not - but in no way does that diminish the game that Josh Roberts or anyone else played.

As fans we can be critical of reach in fouls, or touch fouls away from the basket. But when you play the kind of defense CMA preaches, you play tough, in your face, yield nothing defense all 94 feet. Bad fouls are sure to occur - to call them dumb is well, just dumb.

For players, there are no moral victories in a loss. I get that and I agree with that, and I hope our guys can't wait for another crack at SHU.

But for fans,this was an old time Big East slugfest. Yes, we built a 13 point lead that evaporated, but did anyone really think SHU wasn't going to roar back or that Myles Powell would be contained for 40 minutes? As fans, we not only can be appreciative of a great effort in a loss, but we thankful that a team that is a little short on talent is playing some pretty hard nosed and enjoyable basketball. No one accepts losses, and even the most patient among us really wanted to beat SHU and their cocky fans. Some pretty knowledgeable guys think that SHU can win a national championship if they play well in the tourney and I'd have to agree.
 
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We're getting closer to beating good BE teams. Lost to Butler and SH by a total of 5 points. Trust the process. Trust CMA.
 
[quote="Knight" post=373435]We're getting closer to beating good BE teams. Lost to Butler and SH by a total of 5 points. Trust the process. Trust CMA.[/quote] We need to continue to be a tough out at home. No great team loses 3 home games in one season, but we're far from a great team, and the 3 losses have been by a combined total of 7 points. Next home game is Villanova, so the results could be similar to Butler and Seton Hall. After that, if we play like we did Saturday, we should win the rest of the home games (unless the always streaky Markus Howard has a vintage on-fire game for Marquette).
 
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