Posh or Ponds?
- Thread starter GoldenLeaf
- Start date
Ray Morgan
Well-known member
Which of the 2 got the most out of what nature gave them? Not a close contest. Posh gets everything out of his true size and skill set, while Ponds had so much more to give with some extra conditioning and hard work. Posh may be the most unique player St. John's ever had. Some of the winning plays he makes are in his purview only. The closest competitor is Hatten.
beast of the east
Active member
Mullin and Lavin's last teams had zero depth - gigantic falloff after the first 5 or 6 guys. When those guys weren't playing well or got injured or in foul trouble, we were dead in the water. No strategy can repair the inability to make wide open looks (recalling Clark and Heron's combined 1 for 25 or something like that in Dayton). They were poorly constructed rosters, which is the primary reason both those guys aren't here today.
Anderson has not recruited to the talent level of either of those teams, but does have a deeper bench and has a recruiting strategy in terms of filling all positions. He's also a better bench coach than either of the previous two coaches, but maybe only marginally above Lavin.
However, the ability to coach (Mullin didn't have it) is different than knowing what it takes to be an NBA player. Since Lapchick, who was an early pro star, no other SJU coach had a better idea of what it takes to make it in the NBA than Mullin. You can blame a lot of things on Mullin if you wish, but not communicating that to Ponds is not one of them. Ponds had a script which he followed early his junior season, then abandoned it when his teammates couldn't make shots. He drove recklessly to the hoop, and was so keyed on by defenses that he launched 25-28 foot three point shots.
Ponds likely began the season as a late second round possibility, played a dozen games or so as a late first round pick, then played himself completely out of the draft. The fact that he has played well enough in the G league (12.5 ppg) is an indication of his ability, but has been mentioned before, at 6 feet in socks, you have to stick outside shots consistently to be an NBA player. Ponds hasn't done that in the G League even though his numbers aren't horrible.
Anderson has not recruited to the talent level of either of those teams, but does have a deeper bench and has a recruiting strategy in terms of filling all positions. He's also a better bench coach than either of the previous two coaches, but maybe only marginally above Lavin.
However, the ability to coach (Mullin didn't have it) is different than knowing what it takes to be an NBA player. Since Lapchick, who was an early pro star, no other SJU coach had a better idea of what it takes to make it in the NBA than Mullin. You can blame a lot of things on Mullin if you wish, but not communicating that to Ponds is not one of them. Ponds had a script which he followed early his junior season, then abandoned it when his teammates couldn't make shots. He drove recklessly to the hoop, and was so keyed on by defenses that he launched 25-28 foot three point shots.
Ponds likely began the season as a late second round possibility, played a dozen games or so as a late first round pick, then played himself completely out of the draft. The fact that he has played well enough in the G league (12.5 ppg) is an indication of his ability, but has been mentioned before, at 6 feet in socks, you have to stick outside shots consistently to be an NBA player. Ponds hasn't done that in the G League even though his numbers aren't horrible.
As many may recall , Ponds feedback from the NBA Scouts was to work on being a PG . He tried mightily to do that early in his 3,rd year but , when he was scoring only 8 or 10 points he was torched on this site for not shooting more and scoring . Plus , his Playmaking went for naught as so many times his passes were fumbled or dropped by his teammates . Or , they just missed bunnies as Simon , Clark , etc did on many occasions . Yes , I guess more than a few posters forgot the 1-26 shooting by Clark and Herron in a key game . And , for those who forgot , Ponds only played 1 full season with both , Lovett and Figgy. Lovett quit early in his second season . Herron was frequently hurt and didn’t achieve the level he displayed at Auburn . I just don’t understand the heat that is put on Ponds here . And , who can judge his effort ? Fans ? Ha . Champ has a low key , even demeanor that never changes . His style is more composed than the frantic Posh pace . But , no one challenges Champs effort . Only Ponds was roasted . Unfairly in my opinion .
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Ponds was a fantastic offensive player when he wasn't trying to be a point guard Better than Champagnie in my opinion. I know different positions. The mistake that was made was trying to make Ponds a point guard. He was a shooting guard period. When he tried to be a point guard, he over compensated and his point guard play was exaggerated. It hurt his performance and that of the team. His defensive liabilities have been described by many here and are factual. I have no idea what his game is like now at the professional level, but my gut tells me he will never be a plus point guard.
AlBovino post=446537 said:
Sham was almost strictly a 2G at Tom Jeff. Seems to me that the transition from 2G to PG in college(IE Hattan, Hardy) is much more easily done then the trying to make a college 2G in to a pro PG because of size. All of the big time scoring PGs that I can think of were PGs first(IE Kenny Anderson, Iverson, etc). There may be some exceptions, possibly Van Exel
Monte post=446540 said:
I’m admittedly an Iverson hater but I didn’t see him in college. You think he was pg first Monte?
edit- I reread your post and understand your point.
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Hard comparison, but I would take Posh over Ponds if I had to choose. Someone on another thread compared Posh to Glover (heart, toughness etc.). I think those attributes make him a special player. It was widely reported and discussed on here that Ponds was at times not in the best condition and sometimes out of shape. That speaks to attitude and commitment. He was a good player for us when we had pretty flawed teams. Not sure he ever reached his college BB potential.
Sure Ponds, did not give the appearance of an elite athlete, but let's just look at the #'s...
He averaged 35.2 min/game over his 3 years, (and as high as 37 mpg his sophomore season) and put up huge #'s in those minutes. It was not like this board was going crazy at the time saying Ponds can't keep up.
He might not have the motor Posh does, but the kid was a talented college player.
He averaged 35.2 min/game over his 3 years, (and as high as 37 mpg his sophomore season) and put up huge #'s in those minutes. It was not like this board was going crazy at the time saying Ponds can't keep up.
He might not have the motor Posh does, but the kid was a talented college player.
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Casey Jacobsen , one of the Announcers yesterday and a former NBA player , raves about Posh . But , he also says Posh rarely used his left.hand , even though he has the skill to do so . It’s a interesting analysis . Not a criticism but , something the average fan might not notice , since it seemingly doesn’t affect Posh . But , it’s something opponent Coaches might pick up on , Fox Sports must be budgeting. They had Jacobsen do our game in the afternoon and the Seton Hall game last night . By the way , the Hall handled Rutgers pretty easily . They are going to be tough to deal with . Jacobsen also raved about Aitken too . It will be a good match up , Posh vs Aitken in a week or so .
RedmanMike
Well-known member
I love Posh, and think he's in the mold of a number of great NYC point guards. But in saying that, we shouldn't denigrate Ponds, who was terrific. He could score, he had a great handle and he was a good passer. His on-ball defense was spotty, and he cheated too much. But he carried the team for huge stretches and made big plays down the stretch in a bunch of games. The poor finish for him and the team in Mullin's last year shouldn't detract from what was a very good career.
And I agree with whomever said that Hatten was a great combo of both of them. (His two years stack up with any two-year career in St. John's history.) For my money, my favorite Johnnies point guard is still Boo Harvey.
And I agree with whomever said that Hatten was a great combo of both of them. (His two years stack up with any two-year career in St. John's history.) For my money, my favorite Johnnies point guard is still Boo Harvey.
If we are tallying up Guards of the last 20 years or so , Erik Barkley has to be in the conversation .
beast of the east
Active member
Alagia really good.