Ponds

Welcome back Shamorie!

I agree that sometimes the analysis is that your draft prospects are what they are, may not materially change with more time spent in college, so may as well go start making money (somewhere) and look to achieve the highest level you can professionally going that route.

However that is also not always the case. Extreme example, but see Donte DiVincenzo. He went from largely not appearing on draft boards (although think he would have eventually) to looking like a solid first rounder with a mega team season where he was a major individual contributor.

I think Ponds has the ability to make a move with a big junior year in a few primary ways: (1) running this team as the PG from day 1, not as a combo guard or mid-season transition; (2) becoming a knockdown 3 point shooter; and (3) becoming a much-improved on the ball defender, including getting stronger, to add to his already plus-plus team defense concept and instincts.

Ponds is a special talent and seems like a great kid. Obviously it benefits SJU incredibly to have a player like this return for his junior year. But I really hope this decision ends up being an excellent one for Shamorie and his family as well, where he maybe goes from undrafted to 2nd round, or even plays his way into the 1st with a BE POY type year and racking up a lot of Ws for SJU.
 
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We win 20 play in 8 / 9 game in the tourney at the min. Which some will complain about but really is a high water mark for us. Great news really nothing else matters for next year anyway.
 
[quote="AlBovino" post=286609]Maybe, your implication is that the coaching staff doesn't want to build a team that is good every year. Maybe, you think the fans have higher expectations than the coaching staff. Maybe, you should try supporting the staff once in a while, especially since you have no idea what they are doing behind the scenes.[/quote]

I think part of the problem is that we cherry pick the mid major hires around the country that have done well in a quality league. We look at the Chris Macks, the Brad Stevens, and the relatively small group of mid major hires that took programs to the next level. We ignore the much larger number of guys who have failed to do that.

We've hired: 1) the trusted assistant
2) the mid major guy who was nuts
3) the mid major guy with a major attitude
4) a neophyte with no clue
5) A well known name who didn't win enough at UCLA, but whose success we'd have taken in a minute
6) A hometown prodigal son come home

All but Roberts had a high expectation to win. Mahoney made the dance right away, Fraschilla recruited well right away, Jarvis won right away with Frachilla's guys, Roberts was left w nothing and a scandal, Lavin did well, just not well enough for our expectations. Mullin also began with absolutely nothing.

What is all shows is that unless you REALLY open the vault, hire a guy who had big success at a big conference, and pay him an enormous amount for both the risk and for the higher cost of living in NY, everything else is a crap shoot.

Chris Mack chose Louisville, a better program, and just down the road from Xavier. Brad Stevens gambled on being a pro coach, and has succeeded. Neither of those guys would come here for the same dollars. We aren't going to spend $6 million for a proven entity, yet it takes us no time at all to crap on the latest version of "Restore our program, please"

If you ask me, I would guess that Lavin would have pulled a few rabbits out of the hat, retained Obekpa, and been a little further along than Chris. I also think that IF Chris continues to grow the roster and program, we can be set for another 12-15 years at coach.

We look for the stud 5 star player, but in reality, a lot of teams went deep into the tourney this year without one, and some with a bunch of transfers who worked out. That game has changed, and when you get down to it, the transfer game served SJU well during Looie's era.

I was really comforted when I look over at the bench, and I see a guy I like and trust who is one of us. I didn't think so many of you would turn on him so quickly. I don't buy for a second the "I really want Chris to do well and am rooting for him, but if he doesn't win next year, fire his ass." To me, that's about as far from genuine fan support as it can possibly be. It's not even honest.

Shamorie came back to SJU. Great. I also know that if he is complicit, the staff will work his butt off on the things they already knew were deficiencies. Not playing defense kept Berry out of the NBA, and pre draft, no less than Red Auerbach said he wanted no part of Berry because he didn't play defense. So, the college player of the year, even at 6'8" sank to 14 in the draft. Shamorie at 6'1" will not be treated so kindly. He has two NBA HOF'ers who know what it takes, and if a kid is looking for tutelage, this isn't a bad place. They have a kid assistant who grew up around the NBA, who knows how to break down tape better than anyone, who knows what it will take.

The big dance? I sure hope so. It's a fun trip, and great guys like Moose, MJMaher, JSJ, and a bunch of others make the trip.

NBA for Ponds? If he plays with laser focus, the way he played maybe 6 times last season, but needs to for 30 games, someone will take a chance on the kid. I hope he makes it. The biggest achievement of Lavin, was that his guys who stayed all graduated. I remember seeing Reggie Carter at graduation, and for those moments was just another kid with proud family to see their son in cap and gown. Hoping all good things for Shamorie, who appears to be a great kid reaching for a dream.
 
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[quote="Eric Williamson" post=286618][quote="Mike Zaun" post=286612][quote="otis" post=286601][quote="mjmaherjr" post=286599][attachment=194]ibb.jpg[/attachment][/quote]

Not a good day for the handful of posters who seemingly take glee over program setbacks.[/quote]

I don't think any posters take "glee" over setbacks. It's pure frustration and constantly not realizing our potential...or 1 step forward, 2 steps back that have unfortunately symbolized our program. I'm surprised Ponds is back and that is great news, because we need him next year to have any real shot at the NCAA's. I would urge caution however...this does not guarantee anything as we still have a major depth issue with bigs and we have no idea how Keita will do and has a reputation for being raw. Only having Keita as our true big will be a more significant issue if we can't get Heron for this year. If somehow Heron comes next year to join Ponds and we are not killed with the injury bug, the NCAA's would have to be a given unless of course our coaching cannot do their jobs. It would be interesting, because with Heron next year it's as loaded a roster as pretty much anyone outside of UK, Duke, etc. so if we still underperformed it would be very damning evidence that the staff is not fit for the job. Hopefully it all works out and we actually get some sunshine for a change.[/quote]

Not to be a debbie downer, but I find it fascinating that the expectations and potential are always set so high for a program that really hasn't done much in the last 20 years......[/quote]

And by a completely inexperienced coach that inherited literally nothing. And, oh, by the way, faster than the very best of the best did it.
 
Thrilled to hear the news. In my 40+ years as a die hard fan, few players...and I mean FEW...have provided me with more enjoyment when watching. He really is a pleasure. Glad he is back for one more run.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=286629][quote="AlBovino" post=286609]Maybe, your implication is that the coaching staff doesn't want to build a team that is good every year. Maybe, you think the fans have higher expectations than the coaching staff. Maybe, you should try supporting the staff once in a while, especially since you have no idea what they are doing behind the scenes.[/quote]

I think part of the problem is that we cherry pick the mid major hires around the country that have done well in a quality league. We look at the Chris Macks, the Brad Stevens, and the relatively small group of mid major hires that took programs to the next level. We ignore the much larger number of guys who have failed to do that.

We've hired: 1) the trusted assistant
2) the mid major guy who was nuts
3) the mid major guy with a major attitude
4) a neophyte with no clue
5) A well known name who didn't win enough at UCLA, but whose success we'd have taken in a minute
6) A hometown prodigal son come home

All but Roberts had a high expectation to win. Mahoney made the dance right away, Fraschilla recruited well right away, Jarvis won right away with Frachilla's guys, Roberts was left w nothing and a scandal, Lavin did well, just not well enough for our expectations. Mullin also began with absolutely nothing.

What is all shows is that unless you REALLY open the vault, hire a guy who had big success at a big conference, and pay him an enormous amount for both the risk and for the higher cost of living in NY, everything else is a crap shoot.

Chris Mack chose Louisville, a better program, and just down the road from Xavier. Brad Stevens gambled on being a pro coach, and has succeeded. Neither of those guys would come here for the same dollars. We aren't going to spend $6 million for a proven entity, yet it takes us no time at all to crap on the latest version of "Restore our program, please"

If you ask me, I would guess that Lavin would have pulled a few rabbits out of the hat, retained Obekpa, and been a little further along than Chris. I also think that IF Chris continues to grow the roster and program, we can be set for another 12-15 years at coach.

We look for the stud 5 star player, but in reality, a lot of teams went deep into the tourney this year without one, and some with a bunch of transfers who worked out. That game has changed, and when you get down to it, the transfer game served SJU well during Looie's era.

I was really comforted when I look over at the bench, and I see a guy I like and trust who is one of us. I didn't think so many of you would turn on him so quickly. I don't buy for a second the "I really want Chris to do well and am rooting for him, but if he doesn't win next year, fire his ass." To me, that's about as far from genuine fan support as it can possibly be. It's not even honest.

Shamorie came back to SJU. Great. I also know that if he is complicit, the staff will work his butt off on the things they already knew were deficiencies. Not playing defense kept Berry out of the NBA, and pre draft, no less than Red Auerbach said he wanted no part of Berry because he didn't play defense. So, the college player of the year, even at 6'8" sank to 14 in the draft. Shamorie at 6'1" will not be treated so kindly. He has two NBA HOF'ers who know what it takes, and if a kid is looking for tutelage, this isn't a bad place. They have a kid assistant who grew up around the NBA, who knows how to break down tape better than anyone, who knows what it will take.

The big dance? I sure hope so. It's a fun trip, and great guys like Moose, MJMaher, JSJ, and a bunch of others make the trip.

NBA for Ponds? If he plays with laser focus, the way he played maybe 6 times last season, but needs to for 30 games, someone will take a chance on the kid. I hope he makes it. The biggest achievement of Lavin, was that his guys who stayed all graduated. I remember seeing Reggie Carter at graduation, and for those moments was just another kid with proud family to see their son in cap and gown. Hoping all good things for Shamorie, who appears to be a great kid reaching for a dream.[/quote]

What a great post, Beast. Thanks man.
 
[quote="otis" post=286601][quote="mjmaherjr" post=286599][attachment=194]ibb.jpg[/attachment][/quote]

Not a good day for the handful of posters who seemingly take glee over program setbacks.[/quote]

Really? Is that the best comment to make on the biggest recruit of the year? Slick coming back was more important than getting Jordan Brown. The only poster I've ever seen on any redmen fan forum that took glee in our setbacks is Marco Baldi, an Iona guy who trolls all things St. John's.
Those fans that have criticized three losing seasons, especially the local NYC fans that actually attend games and support the school financially, never take glee in our losses. They are pissed as any real supporter would be.
Pissed=fan.
Glee=Baldi
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=286650][quote="otis" post=286601][quote="mjmaherjr" post=286599][attachment=194]ibb.jpg[/attachment][/quote]

Not a good day for the handful of posters who seemingly take glee over program setbacks.[/quote]

Really? Is that the best comment to make on the biggest recruit of the year? Slick coming back was more important than getting Jordan Brown. The only poster I've ever seen on any redmen fan forum that took glee in our setbacks is Marco Baldi, an Iona guy who trolls all things St. John's.
Those fans that have criticized three losing seasons, especially the local NYC fans that actually attend games and support the school financially, never take glee in our losses. They are pissed as any real supporter would be.
Pissed=fan.
Glee=Baldi[/quote]

+1
 
Found some highlights of the Federation semifinal game between Long Island Lutheran and Thomas Jefferson in 2016. Great player to watch in HS, college and one day the pros.

 
[quote="Tom in Salem" post=286653][quote="Class of 72" post=286650][quote="otis" post=286601][quote="mjmaherjr" post=286599][attachment=194]ibb.jpg[/attachment][/quote]

Not a good day for the handful of posters who seemingly take glee over program setbacks.[/quote]

Really? Is that the best comment to make on the biggest recruit of the year? Slick coming back was more important than getting Jordan Brown. The only poster I've ever seen on any redmen fan forum that took glee in our setbacks is Marco Baldi, an Iona guy who trolls all things St. John's.
Those fans that have criticized three losing seasons, especially the local NYC fans that actually attend games and support the school financially, never take glee in our losses. They are pissed as any real supporter would be.
Pissed=fan.
Glee=Baldi[/quote]

+1[/quote]

It’s been a frustrating number of years for St. John’s fans. And the past 3 years—starting with a blown out roster—has been particularly tough.
So, we gnash, rant, point fingers, take no prisoners, and often act like puberty-ridden teenagers.
But all of us love the school and our sports legacy.
Let’s enjoy this moment of Shamorie’s return, the arrival of 3 solid freshman, 3 very intriguing transfers, and hopefully the imminent arrival of a stellar hoops talent enrolling at St. John’s.
It may be the beginning of the Rising Storm.
Let’s go Johnnies.
 
Nice - thank you for your long and insightful and upbeat post, Beast.
Yes, Shamorie is a great kid. Our program has had its disappointments however: (1) it is creeping along toward better days - and (2) 2018-19 we seem perched to perhaps progress into a tournament. (3) Maybe even approach the big two-zero Ws. (4)Maybe even attract a few more good players. (5) in the meanwhile next years' roster has some excitement about it and some players I am looking forward to seeing evolve as Red Storm teammates.
Even the most cynical likely agree we have positive possibilities.
Again I choose to look forward to this season.
We shall see.
 
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[quote="Sherman, Sheridan & Grant" post=286664]Nice - thank you for your long and insightful and upbeat post, Beast.
Shamorie is a great kid. Our program has had its disappointments however: (1) it is creeping along toward better days - and (2) 2018-19 we seem perched to perhaps progress into a tournament. (3) Maybe even approach the big two-zero Ws. (4)Maybe even attract a few more good players. (5) in the meanwhile next years' roster has some excitement about it and some players I am looking forward to seeing evolve as Red Storm teammates.
We shall see.[/quote]

Thanks so much. I start spending weekends near Sag Harbor, and hope we can catch up one day.
 
The best thing for Ponds as far as NBA stock is to make the NCAA tournament and to shine there ala Donte Divincenzo, Jimmer Fredette, or Steph Curry. (note I'm not comparing Ponds to any of these players just noting that their draft stock sky rocketed after an amazing tournament run/performance).

As an added plus, us as fans would be over the moon!!
 
I think a big Thumbs Up to Mr. Shawn Ponds and the Family for advising and supporting Shamorie in his Decision . And, I am sure it was a very difficult decision for the Family to reach since it likely disappointed Shamorie not to go this Year . And , it was noticeable that Mr. Ponds Sr., commented the importance of Shamorie getting his Degree in 3 Years ... Some Parents do it right and some don’t . Yeah, the Ponds Family did it right .
 
[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=286700]I think a big Thumbs Up to Mr. Shawn Ponds and the Family for advising and supporting Shamorie in his Decision . And, I am sure it was a very difficult decision for the Family to reach since it likely disappointed Shamorie not to go this Year . And , it was noticeable that Mr. Ponds Sr., commented the importance of Shamorie getting his Degree in 3 Years ... Some Parents do it right and some don’t . Yeah, the Ponds Family did it right .[/quote]

Just a random sick thought for any here that think the worst. Ponds gets his degree in 3 years, and rather than opt for the NBA draft, goes to a school with national championship aspirations.
 
[quote="guinness77" post=286619][quote="oldschool Redmen" post=286598][quote="guinness77" post=286563][quote="oldschool Redmen" post=286504]Nope.

Yeah, with Ponds it will be fun next year, if Heron comes, it should be alot of fun and should make some noise in the NCAA Tourny.
Now with that said. Ponds and Marvin will be gone after next year. If Heron equals Ponds stats then he'll vprobably try for the nba as well, and Simon might leave as a grad transfer as well.
I'm thinking if we blow up and get 25 wins and something like 15B.E. wins, some top recruits will see this and might take a chance on Mullin & SJU. Next year could change the way recruits look at SJU.
If all this happens and we still can't recruit top HS talent, then no extension for Mullin.
Gotta think bigger then one great season then back to crap ball.

Gotta be good every year.[/quote]
I once heard an expression that a Jets fan could find a bag of 20s and bitch about them not being 50s. I think this post qualifies for that.

Anyway, thanks to Shamorie for making the right decision and making me a happy guy. How about Bale back to White Hart Lane next? A boy can dream, right?[/quote]

So I guess you'll be happy making noise next year only to get 15wins again the following year.

The way I see it, a great season next year should help with recruiting, am I wrong?
So if we have a throwback season from the 80s and still can't recruit, then wouldn't that tell you that something's wrong?[/quote]
Maybe because of all the crap teams I root for, maybe because I’m getting older, but I’m gonna take the good news we got last night and enjoy it, not bitch about it.[/quote]

Trust me, I'm enjoying Ponds being back as well.
To me he's the diff between 8/9th place and an NCAA bid.

I know this thread is about Ponds and next, but my response was to room112 saying if a miracle happens next year, should we extend Mullin. I'll keep saying not on next years w/l numbers only, but I also gotta see how we recruit too.

One year and back to 15Ws doesn't cut it for me. I see that mullin and everyone is recruiting then by all mean, extend the guy.
 
[quote="oldschool Redmen" post=286726][quote="guinness77" post=286619][quote="oldschool Redmen" post=286598][quote="guinness77" post=286563][quote="oldschool Redmen" post=286504]Nope.

Yeah, with Ponds it will be fun next year, if Heron comes, it should be alot of fun and should make some noise in the NCAA Tourny.
Now with that said. Ponds and Marvin will be gone after next year. If Heron equals Ponds stats then he'll vprobably try for the nba as well, and Simon might leave as a grad transfer as well.
I'm thinking if we blow up and get 25 wins and something like 15B.E. wins, some top recruits will see this and might take a chance on Mullin & SJU. Next year could change the way recruits look at SJU.
If all this happens and we still can't recruit top HS talent, then no extension for Mullin.
Gotta think bigger then one great season then back to crap ball.

Gotta be good every year.[/quote]
I once heard an expression that a Jets fan could find a bag of 20s and bitch about them not being 50s. I think this post qualifies for that.

Anyway, thanks to Shamorie for making the right decision and making me a happy guy. How about Bale back to White Hart Lane next? A boy can dream, right?[/quote]

So I guess you'll be happy making noise next year only to get 15wins again the following year.

The way I see it, a great season next year should help with recruiting, am I wrong?
So if we have a throwback season from the 80s and still can't recruit, then wouldn't that tell you that something's wrong?[/quote]
Maybe because of all the crap teams I root for, maybe because I’m getting older, but I’m gonna take the good news we got last night and enjoy it, not bitch about it.[/quote]

Trust me, I'm enjoying Ponds being back as well.
To me he's the diff between 8/9th place and an NCAA bid.

I know this thread is about Ponds and next, but my response was to room112 saying if a miracle happens next year, should we extend Mullin. I'll keep saying not on next years w/l numbers only, but I also gotta see how we recruit too.

One year and back to 15Ws doesn't cut it for me. I see that mullin and everyone is recruiting then by all mean, extend the guy.[/quote]

Do you honestly think anyone will extend Chris after 4 years of a 6 year contract? I would think that if the program continues to move forward you begin that discussion towards the end of season 5. I could be wrong though.
 
[quote="oldschool Redmen" post=286726][quote="guinness77" post=286619][quote="oldschool Redmen" post=286598][quote="guinness77" post=286563][quote="oldschool Redmen" post=286504]Nope.

Yeah, with Ponds it will be fun next year, if Heron comes, it should be alot of fun and should make some noise in the NCAA Tourny.
Now with that said. Ponds and Marvin will be gone after next year. If Heron equals Ponds stats then he'll vprobably try for the nba as well, and Simon might leave as a grad transfer as well.
I'm thinking if we blow up and get 25 wins and something like 15B.E. wins, some top recruits will see this and might take a chance on Mullin & SJU. Next year could change the way recruits look at SJU.
If all this happens and we still can't recruit top HS talent, then no extension for Mullin.
Gotta think bigger then one great season then back to crap ball.

Gotta be good every year.[/quote]
I once heard an expression that a Jets fan could find a bag of 20s and bitch about them not being 50s. I think this post qualifies for that.

Anyway, thanks to Shamorie for making the right decision and making me a happy guy. How about Bale back to White Hart Lane next? A boy can dream, right?[/quote]

So I guess you'll be happy making noise next year only to get 15wins again the following year.

The way I see it, a great season next year should help with recruiting, am I wrong?
So if we have a throwback season from the 80s and still can't recruit, then wouldn't that tell you that something's wrong?[/quote]
Maybe because of all the crap teams I root for, maybe because I’m getting older, but I’m gonna take the good news we got last night and enjoy it, not bitch about it.[/quote]

Trust me, I'm enjoying Ponds being back as well.
To me he's the diff between 8/9th place and an NCAA bid.

I know this thread is about Ponds and next, but my response was to room112 saying if a miracle happens next year, should we extend Mullin. I'll keep saying not on next years w/l numbers only, but I also gotta see how we recruit too.

One year and back to 15Ws doesn't cut it for me. I see that mullin and everyone is recruiting then by all mean, extend the guy.[/quote]

The extension thing was just a joke, that's why I added a smiley. We still need results on the court and off the court, including 2019 recruiting results.
 
Very good news that Shamorie Ponds is returning. Sounds like him and his folks made an informed decision. I can't blame his family as a great deal is riding on it.
Now I hope that CM and staff (Mitch Richmond) can take some of that feedback and help the kid get to the next level. That would be great for SP's future and selfishly good for the St. John's program. It wouldn't hurt for this kid to make and ultimately thrive in the NBA. Let's hope he can have his cake and eat it too.
 
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