Perspective

I remember watching a game last year and wondering who was going to play with Amar, Jones and Balamou. That is a scary situation to put a Big East program in. I was rooting like crazy against the Aztecs but was still hoping he would be gone. I don't care what he got paid or where he ate but shocked how bad a situation he put us in with no apparent plan for the future.
 
I remember one poster deriding Norm for the size of his suits. Then there was the obsession with which SOHO restaurants Lavin ate at. This stuff is just silly. One can criticize a coach's body of work without sinking to such petty, personal jabs.

Jack, you are actually one of our more intelligent posters but you are naive if you don't think that some posters were/are going after Lavin due to personal issues and not so much for his coaching acumen.

Obviously I've seen guys take cheap shots lavin and those are unessecary and wrong. But I don't think questioning lavins effort is off limits or unfair that's just where we differ
 
Say we win 10 games this year and progress to say 16 next year. That would be a nice improvement and proof that program going in right direction. The problem is the people who are saying they understand this year is a throw away will bitch about 16 next year. They are going to post they were patient the last year but expect better the following year.
 
One of the best things about the Mullin hire is that it pulled every johnnie fan on board (except for a couple of peanuts). The animosity over the prior staff made following the team a rough go. I'm glad it's behind us. We're a pretty devout and cool (albeit small) group of fans here.

Mullin will lead us to promised land and the tickets will become so expensive that we'll bitch about that too
 
Say we win 10 games this year and progress to say 16 next year. That would be a nice improvement and proof that program going in right direction. The problem is the people who are saying they understand this year is a throw away will bitch about 16 next year. They are going to post they were patient the last year but expect better the following year.

10 wins then 16 wins then 22 wins is great and looks very possible with improvement and good recruiting. But that's something Lavin did here. The difference between this program and the top programs is getting to that 22 wins and sustaining that for years, not starting over every 4 years. Patience is key here, but the coaching staff continuing the hard work is what will get this program where we all want it. I, as many others do here, have faith that will happen.
 
I truly believe Mullin will be here for years. The question is how long will we keep Matt A, Slice and even St Jean. Great players are coming, and soon...as in next year. It's a blizzard of recruiting activity right now, to create a winning culture ASAP. My hope is that the current supporting staff stays long enough to solidify the program as a perennial top 25.
 
Bub
I truly believe Mullin will be here for years. The question is how long will we keep Matt A, Slice and even St Jean. Great players are coming, and soon...as in next year. It's a blizzard of recruiting activity right now, to create a winning culture ASAP. My hope is that the current supporting staff stays long enough to solidify the program as a perennial top 25.

Mullin is a great fit and I know he can do the job. But he needs to turn it around sooner rather than later because the longer it takes the more the perception from recruits will be that he isn't a good coach and can't help them to the next level.
 
I remember one poster deriding Norm for the size of his suits. Then there was the obsession with which SOHO restaurants Lavin ate at. This stuff is just silly. One can criticize a coach's body of work without sinking to such petty, personal jabs.

Jack, you are actually one of our more intelligent posters but you are naive if you don't think that some posters were/are going after Lavin due to personal issues and not so much for his coaching acumen.

Obviously I've seen guys take cheap shots lavin and those are unessecary and wrong. But I don't think questioning lavins effort is off limits or unfair that's just where we differ

We don't differ there either. I have no problem with people questioning his effort. I didn't like his "swing for the fences" approach or the fact that we never tried to get early commitments and always seemed to be scrambling at the last minute. I'm just pointing out that some people had personal agendas even when their gripes might have been legit. That's when they would take personal shots at Lavin, rather than staying on point with the criticism. Remember when he was criticized for "going on vacation" in Italy rather than recruiting locally. Those same posters are now praising that Italian recruit.

I thought many shots taken at Norm were unfair. The same with Lavin. Soon, we will be discussing the unfair shots taken at Mullin. There have been a few already, and there will be plenty more.
 
I remember one poster deriding Norm for the size of his suits. Then there was the obsession with which SOHO restaurants Lavin ate at. This stuff is just silly. One can criticize a coach's body of work without sinking to such petty, personal jabs.

Jack, you are actually one of our more intelligent posters but you are naive if you don't think that some posters were/are going after Lavin due to personal issues and not so much for his coaching acumen.

Obviously I've seen guys take cheap shots lavin and those are unessecary and wrong. But I don't think questioning lavins effort is off limits or unfair that's just where we differ

We don't differ there either. I have no problem with people questioning his effort. I didn't like his "swing for the fences" approach or the fact that we never tried to get early commitments and always seemed to be scrambling at the last minute. I'm just pointing out that some people had personal agendas even when their gripes might have been legit. That's when they would take personal shots at Lavin, rather than staying on point with the criticism. Remember when he was criticized for "going on vacation" in Italy rather than recruiting locally. Those same posters are now praising that Italian recruit.

I thought many shots taken at Norm were unfair. The same with Lavin. Soon, we will be discussing the unfair shots taken at Mullin. There have been a few already, and there will be plenty more.

See I find the topic of your last thought fascinating. Norm thing became personal because there was a decent size amount of posters(Normies) still defending Norm. This then antagonized the anti Norm posters(sane people) to then sometimes go over the top.

With Lavin, most on here by the end hated him despite him being vastly more successful then the guy he replaced.

VERY STRANGE!
 
I truly believe Mullin will be here for years. The question is how long will we keep Matt A, Slice and even St Jean. Great players are coming, and soon...as in next year. It's a blizzard of recruiting activity right now, to create a winning culture ASAP. My hope is that the current supporting staff stays long enough to solidify the program as a perennial top 25.

I don' tthink you/we have any thing to worry about.

The staff will more than likely remain in tact for as long as Chris is our coach.

In addition, as of this moment, Greg could arguably follow Chris as head coach, assumming we return to prominence.
 
I truly believe Mullin will be here for years. The question is how long will we keep Matt A, Slice and even St Jean. Great players are coming, and soon...as in next year. It's a blizzard of recruiting activity right now, to create a winning culture ASAP. My hope is that the current supporting staff stays long enough to solidify the program as a perennial top 25.

I don' tthink you/we have any thing to worry about.

The staff will more than likely remain in tact for as long as Chris is our coach.

In addition, as of this moment, Greg could arguably follow Chris as head coach, assumming we return to prominence.
Slice left Kentucky for SJU and Mullin and Matt loves SJU. Its funny I was thinking about St Jean possibly following Mullin as head coach in the future.
 
Let me be blunt: I would have been willing to accept a winless season as a result of the trade-off of having Lavin gone and Mullin here. That's how little I thought of Lavin and his staff and how promising I feel our future is under Mullin and his staff. With that in mind, I will savor every win and put every loss in perspective. Go Johnnies!!!!!

I love Mullin getting the chance to resurrect this program. There is no guy alive who could offer more to the school as a successful coach than Mullin. His mere hiring stirred a long dormant fan base, even amid what will be one of the worst seasons in SJU history.

But where I depart from you is that even through the failures of Roberts and Lavin, I rooted hard for both to be successful. During Robert's end days some posters bragged that they would wear paper bags on their heads and openly root against SJU. Every Lavin team at SJU fizzled at the end, and went out of the NCAAs, NIT, even that bogus tourney without a whimper.

In the end, we bombed again in the NCAAs, he didn't win the Diallo sweepstakes, and Jordan bailed on school. Had he nailed Diallo, Sampson, Mussini, and Lovett he would have pulled a rabbit out of the hat and survived.

I can't say I loved the guy, don't mind that he got fired, but can't say I hated him either.

This is not about love or hate. It isn't personal. I don't think he was the right guy for the job. Once I came to that conclusion, I wanted him gone asap. Same as I deal with employees. Once I make a determination that someone is not right for the job, time for them to go. I'd rather take a chance on someone new, even if it means a set back in the short term.

Monte, thanks for clarifying. You must admit, last season, once Harrison got injured we were basically done. Obekpa's suspension basically sealed the deal in the tourney, not only because he was our only true interior defender, but because it reduced our rotation to 6 guys - all guards. In Charlotte, I couldn't help but think had Harrison been 100%, and Obekpa played, we would have beaten SDSU easily. It's possible we could have gotten to the Sweet 16. We were finalists for Diallo, and had Sampson, and had those things happened, LAvin would be celebrated and not crapped on (fully realizing that he had a group of detractors here) Of course, though, the roster was of his doing.

In the end, he didn't recruit enough, didn't balance a roster, and didn't put a good enough team on the floor. In sofar as him being the wrong guy, perhaps. But I'll say this - he went out the door with class, didn't make a single excuse, and apparently still roots for the program. He hasn't taken credit for Lovett or Mussini recruiting, and didn't suggest that Sampson transferred because of his firing. Wrong guy for the job, I'd probably agree. But I don't think he did anything here that warrants the kind of things that people say about him now that he's gone. I'd prefer we show him the same class that he showed us when he left.

I don't think he deserves much of anything. Yea maybe he would've been celebrated if he got Diallo. Sampson, and got us to the sweet 16. But i don't think it's plausible to think we could have gotten to the sweet 16 at full strength. I don't think we beat the national champs, in Charlotte, with them already playing us once. Not a stretch to think Coach K would've find a way to out coach lavin in their second match up of the season.

Also, Harrison being injured isn't an excuse you can use for lavin. It's his fault Harrison was hurt. Harrison's injury was the fact that he was completely run into the ground playing 40 minutes a night. That's on lavin because he didn't recruit and get quality reserves. DLo had nothing left in the tank by mid February.

I don't like these "what ifs" because it clouds the fact that lavins work ethic was pretty pathetic his last two years. What if he beat out Kansas for a McDonald's all American. Lavin should've been asking himself, what if I don't get this recruit? Cause if he asked himself that question, maybe he would've had a back up plan.

I appreciate lavin for some fun seasons and for bringing some great kids to sju. But I won't forgive him for running DLo into the ground, and I also won't forgive him for leaving the cupboards so bare we are gonna struggle to win a big east game this year.

Jack, another very good post from you. Only one thing though. You have to learn to forgive.

I've definitely come to terms with everything that happened with lavin. I'd say I have let it go for the most part, I don't think about him that much. But it's when I see posters discussing him where my previous feelings of anger get conjured up.

I respect beast and think he's a great fan, but I dislike this quote from his post responding to monte. "But where I depart from you is that even through the failures of Roberts and Lavin, I rooted hard for both to be successful."

This suggests that monte and other posters that wanted lavin gone didn't want him to succeed. That's where I get angry all over again. Because I wanted lavin to win here. But his shortcomings and lack of effort made me want to see a coaching change. Monte feels the same as me. If lavin showed that he had a good, sound recruiting plan and executed by working hard, I doubt anyone would complain and I probably still wouldn't mind if he was here. but he didn't do enough.

I always preach to look at the future of the program and not the past, so I will stop now. But sometimes when this topic gets reopened or talked about again, I feel the need to throw in my two cents.

Jack,

There were people here openly on record during Norm's last season as saying they would root against SJU in order to have Robert's gone. Monte's comments inferred that, but he clarified that - I know him personally and always respects what he has to say, but didn't wan to say it for him.

As I've said many time, I'm okay with Lavin getting fired, but honestly no one would ever have questioned his work ethic , dining habits, "lavish" lifestyle, or any other aspect of his life if he had simply won here. He didn't win enough, and he's gone. The notion he that he was lazy is just conjecture, and somewhat unfair, unless you work in the athletic department and have first hand knowledge. So, I'm okay with leaving it as he didn't have enough success.

I think the word is "Lavinish" lifestyle lol
 
Let me be blunt: I would have been willing to accept a winless season as a result of the trade-off of having Lavin gone and Mullin here. That's how little I thought of Lavin and his staff and how promising I feel our future is under Mullin and his staff. With that in mind, I will savor every win and put every loss in perspective. Go Johnnies!!!!!

I love Mullin getting the chance to resurrect this program. There is no guy alive who could offer more to the school as a successful coach than Mullin. His mere hiring stirred a long dormant fan base, even amid what will be one of the worst seasons in SJU history.

But where I depart from you is that even through the failures of Roberts and Lavin, I rooted hard for both to be successful. During Robert's end days some posters bragged that they would wear paper bags on their heads and openly root against SJU. Every Lavin team at SJU fizzled at the end, and went out of the NCAAs, NIT, even that bogus tourney without a whimper.

In the end, we bombed again in the NCAAs, he didn't win the Diallo sweepstakes, and Jordan bailed on school. Had he nailed Diallo, Sampson, Mussini, and Lovett he would have pulled a rabbit out of the hat and survived.

I can't say I loved the guy, don't mind that he got fired, but can't say I hated him either.

This is not about love or hate. It isn't personal. I don't think he was the right guy for the job. Once I came to that conclusion, I wanted him gone asap. Same as I deal with employees. Once I make a determination that someone is not right for the job, time for them to go. I'd rather take a chance on someone new, even if it means a set back in the short term.

Monte, thanks for clarifying. You must admit, last season, once Harrison got injured we were basically done. Obekpa's suspension basically sealed the deal in the tourney, not only because he was our only true interior defender, but because it reduced our rotation to 6 guys - all guards. In Charlotte, I couldn't help but think had Harrison been 100%, and Obekpa played, we would have beaten SDSU easily. It's possible we could have gotten to the Sweet 16. We were finalists for Diallo, and had Sampson, and had those things happened, LAvin would be celebrated and not crapped on (fully realizing that he had a group of detractors here) Of course, though, the roster was of his doing.

In the end, he didn't recruit enough, didn't balance a roster, and didn't put a good enough team on the floor. In sofar as him being the wrong guy, perhaps. But I'll say this - he went out the door with class, didn't make a single excuse, and apparently still roots for the program. He hasn't taken credit for Lovett or Mussini recruiting, and didn't suggest that Sampson transferred because of his firing. Wrong guy for the job, I'd probably agree. But I don't think he did anything here that warrants the kind of things that people say about him now that he's gone. I'd prefer we show him the same class that he showed us when he left.

I don't think he deserves much of anything. Yea maybe he would've been celebrated if he got Diallo. Sampson, and got us to the sweet 16. But i don't think it's plausible to think we could have gotten to the sweet 16 at full strength. I don't think we beat the national champs, in Charlotte, with them already playing us once. Not a stretch to think Coach K would've find a way to out coach lavin in their second match up of the season.

Also, Harrison being injured isn't an excuse you can use for lavin. It's his fault Harrison was hurt. Harrison's injury was the fact that he was completely run into the ground playing 40 minutes a night. That's on lavin because he didn't recruit and get quality reserves. DLo had nothing left in the tank by mid February.

I don't like these "what ifs" because it clouds the fact that lavins work ethic was pretty pathetic his last two years. What if he beat out Kansas for a McDonald's all American. Lavin should've been asking himself, what if I don't get this recruit? Cause if he asked himself that question, maybe he would've had a back up plan.

I appreciate lavin for some fun seasons and for bringing some great kids to sju. But I won't forgive him for running DLo into the ground, and I also won't forgive him for leaving the cupboards so bare we are gonna struggle to win a big east game this year.

Jack, another very good post from you. Only one thing though. You have to learn to forgive.

I've definitely come to terms with everything that happened with lavin. I'd say I have let it go for the most part, I don't think about him that much. But it's when I see posters discussing him where my previous feelings of anger get conjured up.

I respect beast and think he's a great fan, but I dislike this quote from his post responding to monte. "But where I depart from you is that even through the failures of Roberts and Lavin, I rooted hard for both to be successful."

This suggests that monte and other posters that wanted lavin gone didn't want him to succeed. That's where I get angry all over again. Because I wanted lavin to win here. But his shortcomings and lack of effort made me want to see a coaching change. Monte feels the same as me. If lavin showed that he had a good, sound recruiting plan and executed by working hard, I doubt anyone would complain and I probably still wouldn't mind if he was here. but he didn't do enough.

I always preach to look at the future of the program and not the past, so I will stop now. But sometimes when this topic gets reopened or talked about again, I feel the need to throw in my two cents.

Jack,

There were people here openly on record during Norm's last season as saying they would root against SJU in order to have Robert's gone. Monte's comments inferred that, but he clarified that - I know him personally and always respects what he has to say, but didn't wan to say it for him.

As I've said many time, I'm okay with Lavin getting fired, but honestly no one would ever have questioned his work ethic , dining habits, "lavish" lifestyle, or any other aspect of his life if he had simply won here. He didn't win enough, and he's gone. The notion he that he was lazy is just conjecture, and somewhat unfair, unless you work in the athletic department and have first hand knowledge. So, I'm okay with leaving it as he didn't have enough success.

Beast likewise I respect your opinion, but just like we don't need to work in the athletic dept to know this staff is working hard, we didn't need to work in the athletic dept to know the last staff wasn't.
 
I truly believe Mullin will be here for years. The question is how long will we keep Matt A, Slice and even St Jean. Great players are coming, and soon...as in next year. It's a blizzard of recruiting activity right now, to create a winning culture ASAP. My hope is that the current supporting staff stays long enough to solidify the program as a perennial top 25.

I don' tthink you/we have any thing to worry about.

The staff will more than likely remain in tact for as long as Chris is our coach.

In addition, as of this moment, Greg could arguably follow Chris as head coach, assumming we return to prominence.

I'd disagree with that presumption. St. Jean appears to already have the makeup to be a head coach somewhere. Watching him, I don't think he will be the coach in waiting for the next 15 years if Mullin has success here. He appears to have a take charge personality, and if there is one guy who would leave for something bigger, it would be him.
 
http://nypost.com/2016/01/06/chris-mullin-reveals-why-hes-hopeful-despite-st-johns-losing-skid/

Chris Mullin likes to lose as much as he likes to talk about injuries. He returned to his alma mater to restore winning to a program that has done very little of it since he was in uniform, but the first-year St. John’s coach also understood the hand he was dealt: A barren roster and a program in need of a face-lift.

Though the losses have continued, five in a row entering Wednesday night’s contest against Xavier at Carnesecca Arena, Mullin has looked for positives where he can find them. And he has seen plenty of late, as a team and for individuals.

“It hasn’t shown up in the win column, but we recognize the improvements,” he said.

Mullin sees better shot selection and improved effort on the defensive end. He sees fewer turnovers being committed (an average of 13 over the last three games), a more concerted effort to play together. He sees strides being taken by several members of the team, in particular from freshman Yankuba Sima (14 points and eight rebounds in Saturday’s loss to Providence) to senior Durand Johnson, who has reached double-figures in scoring in five of his last six games.

“Now the challenge is to stay positive and [execute] so we can get in the win column,” said Mullin, whose Johnnies (7-8, 0-2 Big East) haven’t won since Dec. 13 against Syracuse. “We stick to the facts. We show them on tape. That’s part of this process. Be realistic and recognize where we are. That’s exactly what’s happening. There’s been improvement individually and as a team. The way we do this is with our daily approach. We prepare to win.”

It won’t get any easier against No. 10 Xavier, a physically imposing opponent that is deep, skilled and experienced, qualities the Red Storm mostly lack. St. John’s does catch a break with the Musketeers missing freshman point guard Edmond Sumner (head injury), who won’t make the trip.

In two recent losses, against No. 22 South Carolina and eighth-ranked Providence, St. John’s played with the kind of purpose, intensity and aggression that may have led to victories against lesser opponents. A questionable flagrant foul against Amar Alibegovic turned a close game against the Friars into a rout.

Nevertheless, Mullin said he isn’t into moral victories and has made that clear.

“We don’t prepare to go through exercises just to be here,” he said. “And if we continue to do that, we will win.”

He doesn’t seem to have to sell his team. Mullin said while the losing has been frustrating to everyone, the practice habits and work ethic remain as strong as when the Red Storm started 7-3. He’s preached “we’re not backing down to anyone,” and the Johnnies believe things will turn.

“I feel like it’s going to change,” Johnson said. “I think we are right there.
“We’re ready. We’re going to practice hard [on Tuesday] and try to come out and win a game [Wednesday night].”
 
This season could well be the worst in school history and there is a chance we go 0 for the BE. Even with that I do not find the games unwatchable. The last year of Mahoney was unwatchable, the year Jarvis was fired, parts of Lavin's years and ALL of Norm's.

Maybe I am biased.....
 
That Fordham loss still really stings for me. We played with no heart and no effort, and some of our guys were talking smack before the game. How we got man handled by a team like that is just baffling. Granted they have a good OOC record look who they played. I was at the game and it was a gross performance, staff and players.
 
This season could well be the worst in school history and there is a chance we go 0 for the BE. Even with that I do not find the games unwatchable. The last year of Mahoney was unwatchable, the year Jarvis was fired, parts of Lavin's years and ALL of Norm's.

Maybe I am biased.....

I don't disagree. Despite the obviously talent issues the kids seem to be playing hard and having fun, and the full on blowouts have been rare because of it. This year is what it is so let's watch and enjoy. I mean WTF else are we gonna do, binge watch "Making a Murderer" (PS despite the slant taken by the filmmakers the dude is guilty but I hear it's compelling TV).
 
This season could well be the worst in school history and there is a chance we go 0 for the BE. Even with that I do not find the games unwatchable. The last year of Mahoney was unwatchable, the year Jarvis was fired, parts of Lavin's years and ALL of Norm's.

Maybe I am biased.....

I don't disagree. Despite the obviously talent issues the kids seem to be playing hard and having fun, and the full on blowouts have been rare because of it. This year is what it is so let's watch and enjoy. I mean WTF else are we gonna do, binge watch "Making a Murderer" (PS despite the slant taken by the filmmakers the dude is guilty but I hear it's compelling TV).

I must admit I did miss the Providence game which I thought would be ugly to take my son to see Star Wars
 
Back
Top