Perspective

[prjohnnies]

Exactly. Best case scenario was the hope was that a guy like Durand would have a breakout season as an experienced 5th year player, Lovett would be eligible, and Williams would come in as an experienced JC player and be very good off the bat. This outcome was very foreseeable and was unavoidable. In fact, it could have been much worse.

 

[monte]

Let me be blunt: I would have been willing to accept a winless season as a result of the trade-off of having Lavin gone and Mullin here. That's how little I thought of Lavin and his staff and how promising I feel our future is under Mullin and his staff. With that in mind, I will savor every win and put every loss in perspective. Go Johnnies!!!!!

 

[OLV72]

I'm also giving this season a pass and making the best of it by looking towards the future with my fellow die hards at these games. At this point the one question for this season is whether we will see more wins than Mike Maher appearances. It is 7-2 johnnies in front.

 

[mjmaherjr]

I'm also giving this season a pass and making the best of it by looking towards the future with my fellow die hards at these games. At this point the one question for this season is whether we will see more wins than Mike Maher appearances. It is 7-2 johnnies in front.

7 msg games total I think and I don't expect to win anymore so my guess is a push

 

[OLV72]

I'm also giving this season a pass and making the best of it by looking towards the future with my fellow die hards at these games. At this point the one question for this season is whether we will see more wins than Mike Maher appearances. It is 7-2 johnnies in front.

7 msg games total I think and I don't expect to win anymore so my guess is a push

It will be a good race.

 

[mjmaherjr]

I'm also giving this season a pass and making the best of it by looking towards the future with my fellow die hards at these games. At this point the one question for this season is whether we will see more wins than Mike Maher appearances. It is 7-2 johnnies in front.

7 msg games total I think and I don't expect to win anymore so my guess is a push

It will be a good race.

Actually I forgot the big east tourney so that's 8. So I might win

 

[beast of the east]

Let me be blunt: I would have been willing to accept a winless season as a result of the trade-off of having Lavin gone and Mullin here. That's how little I thought of Lavin and his staff and how promising I feel our future is under Mullin and his staff. With that in mind, I will savor every win and put every loss in perspective. Go Johnnies!!!!!

I love Mullin getting the chance to resurrect this program. There is no guy alive who could offer more to the school as a successful coach than Mullin. His mere hiring stirred a long dormant fan base, even amid what will be one of the worst seasons in SJU history.

But where I depart from you is that even through the failures of Roberts and Lavin, I rooted hard for both to be successful. During Robert's end days some posters bragged that they would wear paper bags on their heads and openly root against SJU. Every Lavin team at SJU fizzled at the end, and went out of the NCAAs, NIT, even that bogus tourney without a whimper.

In the end, we bombed again in the NCAAs, he didn't win the Diallo sweepstakes, and Jordan bailed on school. Had he nailed Diallo, Sampson, Mussini, and Lovett he would have pulled a rabbit out of the hat and survived.

I can't say I loved the guy, don't mind that he got fired, but can't say I hated him either.

 

[mjmaherjr]

Let me be blunt: I would have been willing to accept a winless season as a result of the trade-off of having Lavin gone and Mullin here. That's how little I thought of Lavin and his staff and how promising I feel our future is under Mullin and his staff. With that in mind, I will savor every win and put every loss in perspective. Go Johnnies!!!!!

I love Mullin getting the chance to resurrect this program. There is no guy alive who could offer more to the school as a successful coach than Mullin. His mere hiring stirred a long dormant fan base, even amid what will be one of the worst seasons in SJU history.

But where I depart from you is that even through the failures of Roberts and Lavin, I rooted hard for both to be successful. During Robert's end days some posters bragged that they would wear paper bags on their heads and openly root against SJU. Every Lavin team at SJU fizzled at the end, and went out of the NCAAs, NIT, even that bogus tourney without a whimper.

In the end, we bombed again in the NCAAs, he didn't win the Diallo sweepstakes, and Jordan bailed on school. Had he nailed Diallo, Sampson, Mussini, and Lovett he would have pulled a rabbit out of the hat and survived.

I can't say I loved the guy, don't mind that he got fired, but can't say I hated him either.

great post

 

[JohnnyFan]

Let me be blunt: I would have been willing to accept a winless season as a result of the trade-off of having Lavin gone and Mullin here. That's how little I thought of Lavin and his staff and how promising I feel our future is under Mullin and his staff. With that in mind, I will savor every win and put every loss in perspective. Go Johnnies!!!!!

Amen. +1

 

[monte]

Let me be blunt: I would have been willing to accept a winless season as a result of the trade-off of having Lavin gone and Mullin here. That's how little I thought of Lavin and his staff and how promising I feel our future is under Mullin and his staff. With that in mind, I will savor every win and put every loss in perspective. Go Johnnies!!!!!

I love Mullin getting the chance to resurrect this program. There is no guy alive who could offer more to the school as a successful coach than Mullin. His mere hiring stirred a long dormant fan base, even amid what will be one of the worst seasons in SJU history.

But where I depart from you is that even through the failures of Roberts and Lavin, I rooted hard for both to be successful. During Robert's end days some posters bragged that they would wear paper bags on their heads and openly root against SJU. Every Lavin team at SJU fizzled at the end, and went out of the NCAAs, NIT, even that bogus tourney without a whimper.

In the end, we bombed again in the NCAAs, he didn't win the Diallo sweepstakes, and Jordan bailed on school. Had he nailed Diallo, Sampson, Mussini, and Lovett he would have pulled a rabbit out of the hat and survived.

I can't say I loved the guy, don't mind that he got fired, but can't say I hated him either.

This is not about love or hate. It isn't personal. I don't think he was the right guy for the job. Once I came to that conclusion, I wanted him gone asap. Same as I deal with employees. Once I make a determination that someone is not right for the job, time for them to go. I'd rather take a chance on someone new, even if it means a set back in the short term.

 

[beast of the east]

Let me be blunt: I would have been willing to accept a winless season as a result of the trade-off of having Lavin gone and Mullin here. That's how little I thought of Lavin and his staff and how promising I feel our future is under Mullin and his staff. With that in mind, I will savor every win and put every loss in perspective. Go Johnnies!!!!!

I love Mullin getting the chance to resurrect this program. There is no guy alive who could offer more to the school as a successful coach than Mullin. His mere hiring stirred a long dormant fan base, even amid what will be one of the worst seasons in SJU history.

But where I depart from you is that even through the failures of Roberts and Lavin, I rooted hard for both to be successful. During Robert's end days some posters bragged that they would wear paper bags on their heads and openly root against SJU. Every Lavin team at SJU fizzled at the end, and went out of the NCAAs, NIT, even that bogus tourney without a whimper.

In the end, we bombed again in the NCAAs, he didn't win the Diallo sweepstakes, and Jordan bailed on school. Had he nailed Diallo, Sampson, Mussini, and Lovett he would have pulled a rabbit out of the hat and survived.

I can't say I loved the guy, don't mind that he got fired, but can't say I hated him either.

This is not about love or hate. It isn't personal. I don't think he was the right guy for the job. Once I came to that conclusion, I wanted him gone asap. Same as I deal with employees. Once I make a determination that someone is not right for the job, time for them to go. I'd rather take a chance on someone new, even if it means a set back in the short term.

Monte, thanks for clarifying. You must admit, last season, once Harrison got injured we were basically done. Obekpa's suspension basically sealed the deal in the tourney, not only because he was our only true interior defender, but because it reduced our rotation to 6 guys - all guards. In Charlotte, I couldn't help but think had Harrison been 100%, and Obekpa played, we would have beaten SDSU easily. It's possible we could have gotten to the Sweet 16. We were finalists for Diallo, and had Sampson, and had those things happened, LAvin would be celebrated and not crapped on (fully realizing that he had a group of detractors here) Of course, though, the roster was of his doing.

In the end, he didn't recruit enough, didn't balance a roster, and didn't put a good enough team on the floor. In sofar as him being the wrong guy, perhaps. But I'll say this - he went out the door with class, didn't make a single excuse, and apparently still roots for the program. He hasn't taken credit for Lovett or Mussini recruiting, and didn't suggest that Sampson transferred because of his firing. Wrong guy for the job, I'd probably agree. But I don't think he did anything here that warrants the kind of things that people say about him now that he's gone. I'd prefer we show him the same class that he showed us when he left.

 

[Jack Williams]

Let me be blunt: I would have been willing to accept a winless season as a result of the trade-off of having Lavin gone and Mullin here. That's how little I thought of Lavin and his staff and how promising I feel our future is under Mullin and his staff. With that in mind, I will savor every win and put every loss in perspective. Go Johnnies!!!!!

I love Mullin getting the chance to resurrect this program. There is no guy alive who could offer more to the school as a successful coach than Mullin. His mere hiring stirred a long dormant fan base, even amid what will be one of the worst seasons in SJU history.

But where I depart from you is that even through the failures of Roberts and Lavin, I rooted hard for both to be successful. During Robert's end days some posters bragged that they would wear paper bags on their heads and openly root against SJU. Every Lavin team at SJU fizzled at the end, and went out of the NCAAs, NIT, even that bogus tourney without a whimper.

In the end, we bombed again in the NCAAs, he didn't win the Diallo sweepstakes, and Jordan bailed on school. Had he nailed Diallo, Sampson, Mussini, and Lovett he would have pulled a rabbit out of the hat and survived.

I can't say I loved the guy, don't mind that he got fired, but can't say I hated him either.

This is not about love or hate. It isn't personal. I don't think he was the right guy for the job. Once I came to that conclusion, I wanted him gone asap. Same as I deal with employees. Once I make a determination that someone is not right for the job, time for them to go. I'd rather take a chance on someone new, even if it means a set back in the short term.

Monte, thanks for clarifying. You must admit, last season, once Harrison got injured we were basically done. Obekpa's suspension basically sealed the deal in the tourney, not only because he was our only true interior defender, but because it reduced our rotation to 6 guys - all guards. In Charlotte, I couldn't help but think had Harrison been 100%, and Obekpa played, we would have beaten SDSU easily. It's possible we could have gotten to the Sweet 16. We were finalists for Diallo, and had Sampson, and had those things happened, LAvin would be celebrated and not crapped on (fully realizing that he had a group of detractors here) Of course, though, the roster was of his doing.

In the end, he didn't recruit enough, didn't balance a roster, and didn't put a good enough team on the floor. In sofar as him being the wrong guy, perhaps. But I'll say this - he went out the door with class, didn't make a single excuse, and apparently still roots for the program. He hasn't taken credit for Lovett or Mussini recruiting, and didn't suggest that Sampson transferred because of his firing. Wrong guy for the job, I'd probably agree. But I don't think he did anything here that warrants the kind of things that people say about him now that he's gone. I'd prefer we show him the same class that he showed us when he left.

I don't think he deserves much of anything. Yea maybe he would've been celebrated if he got Diallo. Sampson, and got us to the sweet 16. But i don't think it's plausible to think we could have gotten to the sweet 16 at full strength. I don't think we beat the national champs, in Charlotte, with them already playing us once. Not a stretch to think Coach K would've find a way to out coach lavin in their second match up of the season.

Also, Harrison being injured isn't an excuse you can use for lavin. It's his fault Harrison was hurt. Harrison's injury was the fact that he was completely run into the ground playing 40 minutes a night. That's on lavin because he didn't recruit and get quality reserves. DLo had nothing left in the tank by mid February.

I don't like these "what ifs" because it clouds the fact that lavins work ethic was pretty pathetic his last two years. What if he beat out Kansas for a McDonald's all American. Lavin should've been asking himself, what if I don't get this recruit? Cause if he asked himself that question, maybe he would've had a back up plan.

I appreciate lavin for some fun seasons and for bringing some great kids to sju. But I won't forgive him for running DLo into the ground, and I also won't forgive him for leaving the cupboards so bare we are gonna struggle to win a big east game this year.

 

[OLV72]

Let me be blunt: I would have been willing to accept a winless season as a result of the trade-off of having Lavin gone and Mullin here. That's how little I thought of Lavin and his staff and how promising I feel our future is under Mullin and his staff. With that in mind, I will savor every win and put every loss in perspective. Go Johnnies!!!!!

I love Mullin getting the chance to resurrect this program. There is no guy alive who could offer more to the school as a successful coach than Mullin. His mere hiring stirred a long dormant fan base, even amid what will be one of the worst seasons in SJU history.

But where I depart from you is that even through the failures of Roberts and Lavin, I rooted hard for both to be successful. During Robert's end days some posters bragged that they would wear paper bags on their heads and openly root against SJU. Every Lavin team at SJU fizzled at the end, and went out of the NCAAs, NIT, even that bogus tourney without a whimper.

In the end, we bombed again in the NCAAs, he didn't win the Diallo sweepstakes, and Jordan bailed on school. Had he nailed Diallo, Sampson, Mussini, and Lovett he would have pulled a rabbit out of the hat and survived.

I can't say I loved the guy, don't mind that he got fired, but can't say I hated him either.

This is not about love or hate. It isn't personal. I don't think he was the right guy for the job. Once I came to that conclusion, I wanted him gone asap. Same as I deal with employees. Once I make a determination that someone is not right for the job, time for them to go. I'd rather take a chance on someone new, even if it means a set back in the short term.

Monte, thanks for clarifying. You must admit, last season, once Harrison got injured we were basically done. Obekpa's suspension basically sealed the deal in the tourney, not only because he was our only true interior defender, but because it reduced our rotation to 6 guys - all guards. In Charlotte, I couldn't help but think had Harrison been 100%, and Obekpa played, we would have beaten SDSU easily. It's possible we could have gotten to the Sweet 16. We were finalists for Diallo, and had Sampson, and had those things happened, LAvin would be celebrated and not crapped on (fully realizing that he had a group of detractors here) Of course, though, the roster was of his doing.

In the end, he didn't recruit enough, didn't balance a roster, and didn't put a good enough team on the floor. In sofar as him being the wrong guy, perhaps. But I'll say this - he went out the door with class, didn't make a single excuse, and apparently still roots for the program. He hasn't taken credit for Lovett or Mussini recruiting, and didn't suggest that Sampson transferred because of his firing. Wrong guy for the job, I'd probably agree. But I don't think he did anything here that warrants the kind of things that people say about him now that he's gone. I'd prefer we show him the same class that he showed us when he left.

I don't think he deserves much of anything. Yea maybe he would've been celebrated if he got Diallo. Sampson, and got us to the sweet 16. But i don't think it's plausible to think we could have gotten to the sweet 16 at full strength. I don't think we beat the national champs, in Charlotte, with them already playing us once. Not a stretch to think Coach K would've find a way to out coach lavin in their second match up of the season.

Also, Harrison being injured isn't an excuse you can use for lavin. It's his fault Harrison was hurt. Harrison's injury was the fact that he was completely run into the ground playing 40 minutes a night. That's on lavin because he didn't recruit and get quality reserves. DLo had nothing left in the tank by mid February.

I don't like these "what ifs" because it clouds the fact that lavins work ethic was pretty pathetic his last two years. What if he beat out Kansas for a McDonald's all American. Lavin should've been asking himself, what if I don't get this recruit? Cause if he asked himself that question, maybe he would've had a back up plan.

I appreciate lavin for some fun seasons and for bringing some great kids to sju. But I won't forgive him for running DLo into the ground, and I also won't forgive him for leaving the cupboards so bare we are gonna struggle to win a big east game this year.

Jack, another very good post from you. Only one thing though. You have to learn to forgive.

 

[monte]

Let me be blunt: I would have been willing to accept a winless season as a result of the trade-off of having Lavin gone and Mullin here. That's how little I thought of Lavin and his staff and how promising I feel our future is under Mullin and his staff. With that in mind, I will savor every win and put every loss in perspective. Go Johnnies!!!!!

I love Mullin getting the chance to resurrect this program. There is no guy alive who could offer more to the school as a successful coach than Mullin. His mere hiring stirred a long dormant fan base, even amid what will be one of the worst seasons in SJU history.

But where I depart from you is that even through the failures of Roberts and Lavin, I rooted hard for both to be successful. During Robert's end days some posters bragged that they would wear paper bags on their heads and openly root against SJU. Every Lavin team at SJU fizzled at the end, and went out of the NCAAs, NIT, even that bogus tourney without a whimper.

In the end, we bombed again in the NCAAs, he didn't win the Diallo sweepstakes, and Jordan bailed on school. Had he nailed Diallo, Sampson, Mussini, and Lovett he would have pulled a rabbit out of the hat and survived.

I can't say I loved the guy, don't mind that he got fired, but can't say I hated him either.

This is not about love or hate. It isn't personal. I don't think he was the right guy for the job. Once I came to that conclusion, I wanted him gone asap. Same as I deal with employees. Once I make a determination that someone is not right for the job, time for them to go. I'd rather take a chance on someone new, even if it means a set back in the short term.

Monte, thanks for clarifying. You must admit, last season, once Harrison got injured we were basically done. Obekpa's suspension basically sealed the deal in the tourney, not only because he was our only true interior defender, but because it reduced our rotation to 6 guys - all guards. In Charlotte, I couldn't help but think had Harrison been 100%, and Obekpa played, we would have beaten SDSU easily. It's possible we could have gotten to the Sweet 16. We were finalists for Diallo, and had Sampson, and had those things happened, LAvin would be celebrated and not crapped on (fully realizing that he had a group of detractors here) Of course, though, the roster was of his doing.

In the end, he didn't recruit enough, didn't balance a roster, and didn't put a good enough team on the floor. In sofar as him being the wrong guy, perhaps. But I'll say this - he went out the door with class, didn't make a single excuse, and apparently still roots for the program. He hasn't taken credit for Lovett or Mussini recruiting, and didn't suggest that Sampson transferred because of his firing. Wrong guy for the job, I'd probably agree. But I don't think he did anything here that warrants the kind of things that people say about him now that he's gone. I'd prefer we show him the same class that he showed us when he left.

You make valid points beast, but IMO the old cliche "the harder you work the luckier you get" pretty much sums up much of what ailed Lavin. Not just while here, but while at UCLA as well. He would likely still be here if he had a differant work ethic and could've figured out how to relate to the local folk. Hard for me to feel an ounce of sympathy for a guy who collected a hefty pay check and didnt give the job his all. This aint Hollywood. In NYC substance wins out over style every time.

 

[beast of the east]

Let me be blunt: I would have been willing to accept a winless season as a result of the trade-off of having Lavin gone and Mullin here. That's how little I thought of Lavin and his staff and how promising I feel our future is under Mullin and his staff. With that in mind, I will savor every win and put every loss in perspective. Go Johnnies!!!!!

I love Mullin getting the chance to resurrect this program. There is no guy alive who could offer more to the school as a successful coach than Mullin. His mere hiring stirred a long dormant fan base, even amid what will be one of the worst seasons in SJU history.

But where I depart from you is that even through the failures of Roberts and Lavin, I rooted hard for both to be successful. During Robert's end days some posters bragged that they would wear paper bags on their heads and openly root against SJU. Every Lavin team at SJU fizzled at the end, and went out of the NCAAs, NIT, even that bogus tourney without a whimper.

In the end, we bombed again in the NCAAs, he didn't win the Diallo sweepstakes, and Jordan bailed on school. Had he nailed Diallo, Sampson, Mussini, and Lovett he would have pulled a rabbit out of the hat and survived.

I can't say I loved the guy, don't mind that he got fired, but can't say I hated him either.

This is not about love or hate. It isn't personal. I don't think he was the right guy for the job. Once I came to that conclusion, I wanted him gone asap. Same as I deal with employees. Once I make a determination that someone is not right for the job, time for them to go. I'd rather take a chance on someone new, even if it means a set back in the short term.

Monte, thanks for clarifying. You must admit, last season, once Harrison got injured we were basically done. Obekpa's suspension basically sealed the deal in the tourney, not only because he was our only true interior defender, but because it reduced our rotation to 6 guys - all guards. In Charlotte, I couldn't help but think had Harrison been 100%, and Obekpa played, we would have beaten SDSU easily. It's possible we could have gotten to the Sweet 16. We were finalists for Diallo, and had Sampson, and had those things happened, LAvin would be celebrated and not crapped on (fully realizing that he had a group of detractors here) Of course, though, the roster was of his doing.

In the end, he didn't recruit enough, didn't balance a roster, and didn't put a good enough team on the floor. In sofar as him being the wrong guy, perhaps. But I'll say this - he went out the door with class, didn't make a single excuse, and apparently still roots for the program. He hasn't taken credit for Lovett or Mussini recruiting, and didn't suggest that Sampson transferred because of his firing. Wrong guy for the job, I'd probably agree. But I don't think he did anything here that warrants the kind of things that people say about him now that he's gone. I'd prefer we show him the same class that he showed us when he left.

You make valid points beast, but IMO the old cliche "the harder you work the luckier you get" pretty much sums up much of what ailed Lavin. Not just while here, but while at UCLA as well. He would likely still be here if he had a differant work ethic and could've figured out how to relate to the local folk. Hard for me to feel an ounce of sympathy for a guy who collected a hefty pay check and didnt give the job his all. This aint Hollywood. In NYC substance wins out over style every time.

Don't disagree. I just stop way short of getting personal about him. I know that's not your intent either, but others here have said horrible things about him. I know you're a gym rat, but no one knows really how hard he recruited. A few years ago I was speaking with a coach's wife about how hard it must be to recruit for a big program, and she replied, "It's actually a lot easier since now he has a staff to help". We are quick to call Lavin lazy, but what about the rest of his staff who were supposed to be recruiting as a primary part of their job? Certainly if they were less than hard working, the buck stops with Lavin, and certainly he failed here, but so many presumptions were made and flat out animosity for his $2 million salary, that it doesn't make sense.

 

[Jack Williams]

Let me be blunt: I would have been willing to accept a winless season as a result of the trade-off of having Lavin gone and Mullin here. That's how little I thought of Lavin and his staff and how promising I feel our future is under Mullin and his staff. With that in mind, I will savor every win and put every loss in perspective. Go Johnnies!!!!!

I love Mullin getting the chance to resurrect this program. There is no guy alive who could offer more to the school as a successful coach than Mullin. His mere hiring stirred a long dormant fan base, even amid what will be one of the worst seasons in SJU history.

But where I depart from you is that even through the failures of Roberts and Lavin, I rooted hard for both to be successful. During Robert's end days some posters bragged that they would wear paper bags on their heads and openly root against SJU. Every Lavin team at SJU fizzled at the end, and went out of the NCAAs, NIT, even that bogus tourney without a whimper.

In the end, we bombed again in the NCAAs, he didn't win the Diallo sweepstakes, and Jordan bailed on school. Had he nailed Diallo, Sampson, Mussini, and Lovett he would have pulled a rabbit out of the hat and survived.

I can't say I loved the guy, don't mind that he got fired, but can't say I hated him either.

This is not about love or hate. It isn't personal. I don't think he was the right guy for the job. Once I came to that conclusion, I wanted him gone asap. Same as I deal with employees. Once I make a determination that someone is not right for the job, time for them to go. I'd rather take a chance on someone new, even if it means a set back in the short term.

Monte, thanks for clarifying. You must admit, last season, once Harrison got injured we were basically done. Obekpa's suspension basically sealed the deal in the tourney, not only because he was our only true interior defender, but because it reduced our rotation to 6 guys - all guards. In Charlotte, I couldn't help but think had Harrison been 100%, and Obekpa played, we would have beaten SDSU easily. It's possible we could have gotten to the Sweet 16. We were finalists for Diallo, and had Sampson, and had those things happened, LAvin would be celebrated and not crapped on (fully realizing that he had a group of detractors here) Of course, though, the roster was of his doing.

In the end, he didn't recruit enough, didn't balance a roster, and didn't put a good enough team on the floor. In sofar as him being the wrong guy, perhaps. But I'll say this - he went out the door with class, didn't make a single excuse, and apparently still roots for the program. He hasn't taken credit for Lovett or Mussini recruiting, and didn't suggest that Sampson transferred because of his firing. Wrong guy for the job, I'd probably agree. But I don't think he did anything here that warrants the kind of things that people say about him now that he's gone. I'd prefer we show him the same class that he showed us when he left.

I don't think he deserves much of anything. Yea maybe he would've been celebrated if he got Diallo. Sampson, and got us to the sweet 16. But i don't think it's plausible to think we could have gotten to the sweet 16 at full strength. I don't think we beat the national champs, in Charlotte, with them already playing us once. Not a stretch to think Coach K would've find a way to out coach lavin in their second match up of the season.

Also, Harrison being injured isn't an excuse you can use for lavin. It's his fault Harrison was hurt. Harrison's injury was the fact that he was completely run into the ground playing 40 minutes a night. That's on lavin because he didn't recruit and get quality reserves. DLo had nothing left in the tank by mid February.

I don't like these "what ifs" because it clouds the fact that lavins work ethic was pretty pathetic his last two years. What if he beat out Kansas for a McDonald's all American. Lavin should've been asking himself, what if I don't get this recruit? Cause if he asked himself that question, maybe he would've had a back up plan.

I appreciate lavin for some fun seasons and for bringing some great kids to sju. But I won't forgive him for running DLo into the ground, and I also won't forgive him for leaving the cupboards so bare we are gonna struggle to win a big east game this year.

Jack, another very good post from you. Only one thing though. You have to learn to forgive.

I've definitely come to terms with everything that happened with lavin. I'd say I have let it go for the most part, I don't think about him that much. But it's when I see posters discussing him where my previous feelings of anger get conjured up.

I respect beast and think he's a great fan, but I dislike this quote from his post responding to monte. "But where I depart from you is that even through the failures of Roberts and Lavin, I rooted hard for both to be successful."

This suggests that monte and other posters that wanted lavin gone didn't want him to succeed. That's where I get angry all over again. Because I wanted lavin to win here. But his shortcomings and lack of effort made me want to see a coaching change. Monte feels the same as me. If lavin showed that he had a good, sound recruiting plan and executed by working hard, I doubt anyone would complain and I probably still wouldn't mind if he was here. but he didn't do enough.

I always preach to look at the future of the program and not the past, so I will stop now. But sometimes when this topic gets reopened or talked about again, I feel the need to throw in my two cents.

 

[beast of the east]

Let me be blunt: I would have been willing to accept a winless season as a result of the trade-off of having Lavin gone and Mullin here. That's how little I thought of Lavin and his staff and how promising I feel our future is under Mullin and his staff. With that in mind, I will savor every win and put every loss in perspective. Go Johnnies!!!!!

I love Mullin getting the chance to resurrect this program. There is no guy alive who could offer more to the school as a successful coach than Mullin. His mere hiring stirred a long dormant fan base, even amid what will be one of the worst seasons in SJU history.

But where I depart from you is that even through the failures of Roberts and Lavin, I rooted hard for both to be successful. During Robert's end days some posters bragged that they would wear paper bags on their heads and openly root against SJU. Every Lavin team at SJU fizzled at the end, and went out of the NCAAs, NIT, even that bogus tourney without a whimper.

In the end, we bombed again in the NCAAs, he didn't win the Diallo sweepstakes, and Jordan bailed on school. Had he nailed Diallo, Sampson, Mussini, and Lovett he would have pulled a rabbit out of the hat and survived.

I can't say I loved the guy, don't mind that he got fired, but can't say I hated him either.

This is not about love or hate. It isn't personal. I don't think he was the right guy for the job. Once I came to that conclusion, I wanted him gone asap. Same as I deal with employees. Once I make a determination that someone is not right for the job, time for them to go. I'd rather take a chance on someone new, even if it means a set back in the short term.

Monte, thanks for clarifying. You must admit, last season, once Harrison got injured we were basically done. Obekpa's suspension basically sealed the deal in the tourney, not only because he was our only true interior defender, but because it reduced our rotation to 6 guys - all guards. In Charlotte, I couldn't help but think had Harrison been 100%, and Obekpa played, we would have beaten SDSU easily. It's possible we could have gotten to the Sweet 16. We were finalists for Diallo, and had Sampson, and had those things happened, LAvin would be celebrated and not crapped on (fully realizing that he had a group of detractors here) Of course, though, the roster was of his doing.

In the end, he didn't recruit enough, didn't balance a roster, and didn't put a good enough team on the floor. In sofar as him being the wrong guy, perhaps. But I'll say this - he went out the door with class, didn't make a single excuse, and apparently still roots for the program. He hasn't taken credit for Lovett or Mussini recruiting, and didn't suggest that Sampson transferred because of his firing. Wrong guy for the job, I'd probably agree. But I don't think he did anything here that warrants the kind of things that people say about him now that he's gone. I'd prefer we show him the same class that he showed us when he left.

I don't think he deserves much of anything. Yea maybe he would've been celebrated if he got Diallo. Sampson, and got us to the sweet 16. But i don't think it's plausible to think we could have gotten to the sweet 16 at full strength. I don't think we beat the national champs, in Charlotte, with them already playing us once. Not a stretch to think Coach K would've find a way to out coach lavin in their second match up of the season.

Also, Harrison being injured isn't an excuse you can use for lavin. It's his fault Harrison was hurt. Harrison's injury was the fact that he was completely run into the ground playing 40 minutes a night. That's on lavin because he didn't recruit and get quality reserves. DLo had nothing left in the tank by mid February.

I don't like these "what ifs" because it clouds the fact that lavins work ethic was pretty pathetic his last two years. What if he beat out Kansas for a McDonald's all American. Lavin should've been asking himself, what if I don't get this recruit? Cause if he asked himself that question, maybe he would've had a back up plan.

I appreciate lavin for some fun seasons and for bringing some great kids to sju. But I won't forgive him for running DLo into the ground, and I also won't forgive him for leaving the cupboards so bare we are gonna struggle to win a big east game this year.

Jack, another very good post from you. Only one thing though. You have to learn to forgive.

I've definitely come to terms with everything that happened with lavin. I'd say I have let it go for the most part, I don't think about him that much. But it's when I see posters discussing him where my previous feelings of anger get conjured up.

I respect beast and think he's a great fan, but I dislike this quote from his post responding to monte. "But where I depart from you is that even through the failures of Roberts and Lavin, I rooted hard for both to be successful."

This suggests that monte and other posters that wanted lavin gone didn't want him to succeed. That's where I get angry all over again. Because I wanted lavin to win here. But his shortcomings and lack of effort made me want to see a coaching change. Monte feels the same as me. If lavin showed that he had a good, sound recruiting plan and executed by working hard, I doubt anyone would complain and I probably still wouldn't mind if he was here. but he didn't do enough.

I always preach to look at the future of the program and not the past, so I will stop now. But sometimes when this topic gets reopened or talked about again, I feel the need to throw in my two cents.

Jack,

There were people here openly on record during Norm's last season as saying they would root against SJU in order to have Robert's gone. Monte's comments inferred that, but he clarified that - I know him personally and always respects what he has to say, but didn't wan to say it for him.

As I've said many time, I'm okay with Lavin getting fired, but honestly no one would ever have questioned his work ethic , dining habits, "lavish" lifestyle, or any other aspect of his life if he had simply won here. He didn't win enough, and he's gone. The notion he that he was lazy is just conjecture, and somewhat unfair, unless you work in the athletic department and have first hand knowledge. So, I'm okay with leaving it as he didn't have enough success.

 

[simplyred]

I remember one poster deriding Norm for the size of his suits. Then there was the obsession with which SOHO restaurants Lavin ate at. This stuff is just silly. One can criticize a coach's body of work without sinking to such petty, personal jabs.

Jack, you are actually one of our more intelligent posters but you are naive if you don't think that some posters were/are going after Lavin due to personal issues and not so much for his coaching acumen.

 

[Jack Williams]

it is completely fair to question his work ethic because of the results he got. Go back to the 14-15 recruiting sections. After the few McD AA's he was after, who else were we mentioned with?

After he struck out on the McDonalds All Americans, we scrambled for 2 and 3 star players. I don't need to work in the athletic department to know we didn't have a good back up plan on the recruiting trail. And if it's not because he was lazy, it's because he was just being stupid then.

 

[ras]

Let me be blunt: I would have been willing to accept a winless season as a result of the trade-off of having Lavin gone and Mullin here. That's how little I thought of Lavin and his staff and how promising I feel our future is under Mullin and his staff. With that in mind, I will savor every win and put every loss in perspective. Go Johnnies!!!!!

I love Mullin getting the chance to resurrect this program. There is no guy alive who could offer more to the school as a successful coach than Mullin. His mere hiring stirred a long dormant fan base, even amid what will be one of the worst seasons in SJU history.

But where I depart from you is that even through the failures of Roberts and Lavin, I rooted hard for both to be successful. During Robert's end days some posters bragged that they would wear paper bags on their heads and openly root against SJU. Every Lavin team at SJU fizzled at the end, and went out of the NCAAs, NIT, even that bogus tourney without a whimper.

In the end, we bombed again in the NCAAs, he didn't win the Diallo sweepstakes, and Jordan bailed on school. Had he nailed Diallo, Sampson, Mussini, and Lovett he would have pulled a rabbit out of the hat and survived.

I can't say I loved the guy, don't mind that he got fired, but can't say I hated him either.

This is not about love or hate. It isn't personal. I don't think he was the right guy for the job. Once I came to that conclusion, I wanted him gone asap. Same as I deal with employees. Once I make a determination that someone is not right for the job, time for them to go. I'd rather take a chance on someone new, even if it means a set back in the short term.

Monte, thanks for clarifying. You must admit, last season, once Harrison got injured we were basically done. Obekpa's suspension basically sealed the deal in the tourney, not only because he was our only true interior defender, but because it reduced our rotation to 6 guys - all guards. In Charlotte, I couldn't help but think had Harrison been 100%, and Obekpa played, we would have beaten SDSU easily. It's possible we could have gotten to the Sweet 16. We were finalists for Diallo, and had Sampson, and had those things happened, LAvin would be celebrated and not crapped on (fully realizing that he had a group of detractors here) Of course, though, the roster was of his doing.

In the end, he didn't recruit enough, didn't balance a roster, and didn't put a good enough team on the floor. In sofar as him being the wrong guy, perhaps. But I'll say this - he went out the door with class, didn't make a single excuse, and apparently still roots for the program. He hasn't taken credit for Lovett or Mussini recruiting, and didn't suggest that Sampson transferred because of his firing. Wrong guy for the job, I'd probably agree. But I don't think he did anything here that warrants the kind of things that people say about him now that he's gone. I'd prefer we show him the same class that he showed us when he left.

I don't think he deserves much of anything. Yea maybe he would've been celebrated if he got Diallo. Sampson, and got us to the sweet 16. But i don't think it's plausible to think we could have gotten to the sweet 16 at full strength. I don't think we beat the national champs, in Charlotte, with them already playing us once. Not a stretch to think Coach K would've find a way to out coach lavin in their second match up of the season.

Also, Harrison being injured isn't an excuse you can use for lavin. It's his fault Harrison was hurt. Harrison's injury was the fact that he was completely run into the ground playing 40 minutes a night. That's on lavin because he didn't recruit and get quality reserves. DLo had nothing left in the tank by mid February.

I don't like these "what ifs" because it clouds the fact that lavins work ethic was pretty pathetic his last two years. What if he beat out Kansas for a McDonald's all American. Lavin should've been asking himself, what if I don't get this recruit? Cause if he asked himself that question, maybe he would've had a back up plan.

I appreciate lavin for some fun seasons and for bringing some great kids to sju. But I won't forgive him for running DLo into the ground, and I also won't forgive him for leaving the cupboards so bare we are gonna struggle to win a big east game this year.

I agree w you regarding Harrison. Plus he couldn't recuperate once injured , because he played so much. Bottom line , the depth issue last year was inexcusable. Plus your right about Lavin putting his eggs in the same basket and not having backup plans .For next year ,we are going after Alkins, but if we don't get him, will have Ponds, Lovett, Mussini ,Ellison , and Bashir.