Penn State Sanctions----UGH

72 -

Regardless of where the author of the article is coming from politically I should think that someone of your proclivities in that area (if I read them correctly) would be quick to see that what the NCAA is doing bears a stark resemblance to what the government has been doing of late on a much larger scale. An ever-increasing expansion of its power in every direction, imposition of penalties when there is no precedent for some such action, eclipsing the rights of individuals and lesser corporate entities, controlling the appeal process to ensure that the outcome is compatible with what they seek, doing all of the above without accountability and thus with impunity.
 
By my count there have been be at least the 4 reported incident by a Syracuse University basketball player during just the past 4 years regarding crimes against a women.

(i) Eric Devendorf charge with hitting a women with a closed fist in 2008
see: [URL]http://aol.sportingnews.com/nc...acuses-devendorf-investigated-alleged-assault[/URL]

(ii) Josh Wright charged with prostitution 2011
(see [URL]http://blog.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/2011/06/former_syracuse_basketball_pla_5.html[/URL]

(iii) Fab Mellow charge with criminal mischief for damaging girlfriend's property in which girlfriend alleged the basketball star had become violent with her 4 or 5 times prior [URL]http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/06/syracuse_university_basketball_4.html[/URL] , and

(iv) Mookie Jones harassing a women
[URL]http://blog.syracuse.com/orang...es_says_hes_im_done.html#incart_river_default[/URL]

The aforementioned 4 arrests do not include the arrests of SU players Andre Hawkins and Ron Payton who were arrested and accused of raping a Villanova cheerleader. The charges were later dismissed when the student refused to testify against the two players. see:
[URL]http://www.nj.com/collegebaske...at_madness_came_30_years_ago_in_hartford.html[/URL]

The 4 linked arrests of Syracuse University basketball players also does not include the many more crimes listed in post#127 0n the linked page.
[URL]http://the-boneyard.com/threads/yum-is-this-crow-its-delicious.7803/page-13[/URL]

In his self righteous statement concerning Penn State, Mr. Emmert pontificated that "the NCAA has served notice that a win-at-all-costs mentality in major college football won't be tolerated." What about college basketball?

Will Mr. Emmert dismiss crimes by NCAA males against women?

Does repetitious criminal conduct by members of a college's sport program under the same coach constitute a lack of institutional control?

Mr. Emmert is a double degree holder from Syracuse University.

I invite my fellow St. John's fans to e-mail Emmert and ask him whether he intends to investigate reported crimes at his alma mater Syracuse University to determine whether the multiple incidents by NCAA athletes against women reflect a lack of institution control.

In addition to the possible lack of institutional control at Syracuse University Mr. Emmert may want to take a look at the University of Virginia regarding the May 2012 murder of a female athlete allegedly by a UVA male athlete following complaints by the female student to school officials that the male athlete was stalking her. Does murder of a female by an alleged out of control male NCAA athlete quality for NCAA investigation? see
[URL]http://abcnews.go.com/US/yeardley-loves-mother-sue-lacross-coaches-daughters-death/story?id[/URL]=16279118#.UBCh32heKYc

Likewise there is a seemingly neglected story regarding NCAA darling UNC's lacks institutional control concerning its student athletes to pad their credentials a major allegation against The simmering issue being being swept under the radar by media is the evidence that .
[URL]http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/07/09/3369407/at-unc-no-show-classes-mostly.html[/URL]

I invite you to e-mail Syracuse University alum Emmert and inquire what if anything the NCAA has done or intends to do to investigate issues of lack of institutional control at his alma mater (pattern of crimes against women), UVA (murder), and UNC (academic integrity).

Mr. Emmert's e-mail address is:

memmert@ncaa.org 
 
72 -

Regardless of where the author of the article is coming from politically I should think that someone of your proclivities in that area (if I read them correctly) would be quick to see that what the NCAA is doing bears a stark resemblance to what the government has been doing of late on a much larger scale. An ever-increasing expansion of its power in every direction, imposition of penalties when there is no precedent for some such action, eclipsing the rights of individuals and lesser corporate entities, controlling the appeal process to ensure that the outcome is compatible with what they seek, doing all of the above without accountability and thus with impunity.
Click to expand...
 

I am not a fan of big government, autocracy and especially the NCAA. I am even a lesser fan of BCS schools that put football ahead of all else at all costs. The author seemed more concerned about the impact of the Penn State sanctions on "public funds" and the separation of the transgressions of PSU administrators and football staff from NCAA jurisdiction as it applies to loss of institutional control over an athletic program......in PSU 's case, the protection of that sports money making ability and reputation at the expense of children abused in football facilities by a staffer and witnessed by another staffer. No, PSU players were not involved but the univeristy was involved by turning a blind eye to the allegations and allowing its football staff to proceed with business as usual for years while children were abused on campus in its football facilities.
Yes, this was unchartered territory for the NCAA but the win at all costs mentality of some football schools had to be addressed sooner rather than later.
 
 If Penn State had not accepted the package of NCAA sanctions announced Monday, the Nittany Lions faced a historic death penalty of four years, university president Rodney Erickson told "Outside the Lines" on Wednesday afternoon.

In a separate interview, NCAA president Mark Emmert confirmed that a core group of NCAA school presidents had agreed early last week that an appropriate punishment was no Penn State football for four years.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_...ickson-said-school-faced-4-year-death-penalty
 
By my count there have been be at least the 4 reported incident by a Syracuse University basketball player during just the past 4 years regarding crimes against a women.

(i) Eric Devendorf charge with hitting a women with a closed fist in 2008
see: [URL]http://aol.sportingnews.com/nc...acuses-devendorf-investigated-alleged-assault[/URL]

(ii) Josh Wright charged with prostitution 2011
(see [URL]http://blog.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/2011/06/former_syracuse_basketball_pla_5.html[/URL]

(iii) Fab Mellow charge with criminal mischief for damaging girlfriend's property in which girlfriend alleged the basketball star had become violent with her 4 or 5 times prior [URL]http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/06/syracuse_university_basketball_4.html[/URL] , and

(iv) Mookie Jones harassing a women
[URL]http://blog.syracuse.com/orang...es_says_hes_im_done.html#incart_river_default[/URL]

The aforementioned 4 arrests do not include the arrests of SU players Andre Hawkins and Ron Payton who were arrested and accused of raping a Villanova cheerleader. The charges were later dismissed when the student refused to testify against the two players. see:
[URL]http://www.nj.com/collegebaske...at_madness_came_30_years_ago_in_hartford.html[/URL]

The 4 linked arrests of Syracuse University basketball players also does not include the many more crimes listed in post#127 0n the linked page.
[URL]http://the-boneyard.com/threads/yum-is-this-crow-its-delicious.7803/page-13[/URL]

In his self righteous statement concerning Penn State, Mr. Emmert pontificated that "the NCAA has served notice that a win-at-all-costs mentality in major college football won't be tolerated." What about college basketball?
Will Mr. Emmert dismiss crimes by NCAA males against women?

Does repetitious criminal conduct by members of a college's sport program under the same coach constitute a lack of institutional control?

Mr. Emmert is a double degree holder from Syracuse University.

I invite my fellow St. John's fans to e-mail Emmert and ask him whether he intends to investigate reported crimes at his alma mater Syracuse University to determine whether the multiple incidents by NCAA athletes against women reflect a lack of institution control.

In addition to the possible lack of institutional control at Syracuse University Mr. Emmert may want to take a look at the University of Virginia regarding the May 2012 murder of a female athlete allegedly by a UVA male athlete following complaints by the female student to school officials that the male athlete was stalking her. Does murder of a female by an alleged out of control male NCAA athlete quality for NCAA investigation? see
[URL]http://abcnews.go.com/US/yeardley-loves-mother-sue-lacross-coaches-daughters-death/story?id[/URL]=16279118#.UBCh32heKYc

Likewise there is a seemingly neglected story regarding NCAA darling UNC's lacks institutional control concerning its student athletes to pad their credentials a major allegation against The simmering issue being being swept under the radar by media is the evidence that .
[URL]http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/07/09/3369407/at-unc-no-show-classes-mostly.html[/URL]

I invite you to e-mail Syracuse University alum Emmert and inquire what if anything the NCAA has done or intends to do to investigate issues of lack of institutional control at his alma mater (pattern of crimes against women), UVA (murder), and UNC (academic integrity).

Mr. Emmert's e-mail address is:

memmert@ncaa.org
Click to expand...
 

Otis, you make an interesting point in regard to the ambiguity and hyprocrisy of some of the powers that be at the NCAA.The late Paul Dee was the chairman of the committee on infractions which lowered the highly criticized boom on USC. The same man was the Athletic Director at Miami U from 1993-2008 and it was on his watch that the Pell grants for athletes were rigged, Miami football players were showered with money and three of the latter were given an illegal waver as far as drug testing was concerned. One of the SI writers pointed towards his sanctimonious preaching by suggesting that Dee should be punished by having to spend a day at USC's Heritage Hall wearing a sandwich board sign with the word Hypocrite plastered across it.

.
 
72 -

Regardless of where the author of the article is coming from politically I should think that someone of your proclivities in that area (if I read them correctly) would be quick to see that what the NCAA is doing bears a stark resemblance to what the government has been doing of late on a much larger scale. An ever-increasing expansion of its power in every direction, imposition of penalties when there is no precedent for some such action, eclipsing the rights of individuals and lesser corporate entities, controlling the appeal process to ensure that the outcome is compatible with what they seek, doing all of the above without accountability and thus with impunity.
Click to expand...
 

I am not a fan of big government, autocracy and especially the NCAA. I am even a lesser fan of BCS schools that put football ahead of all else at all costs. The author seemed more concerned about the impact of the Penn State sanctions on "public funds" and the separation of the transgressions of PSU administrators and football staff from NCAA jurisdiction as it applies to loss of institutional control over an athletic program......in PSU 's case, the protection of that sports money making ability and reputation at the expense of children abused in football facilities by a staffer and witnessed by another staffer. No, PSU players were not involved but the univeristy was involved by turning a blind eye to the allegations and allowing its football staff to proceed with business as usual for years while children were abused on campus in its football facilities.
Yes, this was unchartered territory for the NCAA but the win at all costs mentality of some football schools had to be addressed sooner rather than later.
Click to expand...
 

Thanks for your honesty in admitting to a bias as far as big time BCS football is concerned. But, as Otis points out, when it comes to a win-at-all-costs mentality, "What about basketball?" And - for that matter - What about lacrosse? What about soccer? What about wakeboarding? What about taekwondo? Did you realize that UC Berkeley has won 19 out of the last 20 championships in that sport? Must be something going on. Time for the NCAA to step in.

Penn State will undoubtedly get besieged by law suits and will probably pay a much larger price than that imposed by the NCAA; and, in my opinion, they ought to. I am merciless when it comes to anyone turning a blind's eye towards child abuse.

The point here is in regard to a set of circumstances wherein the NCAA - without any investigation on its own part - inserts itself into a situation where none of its bylaws have been violated and its jurisdiction is at best questionable and imposes a Draconian punishment. What type of precedent does this set for an institution whose procedures are shrouded in mystery and is unaccountable for any of the judgments it renders?      
 
Penn State will undoubtedly get besieged by law suits and will probably pay a much larger price than that imposed by the NCAA; and, in my opinion, they ought to. I am merciless when it comes to anyone turning a blind's eye towards child abuse.

The point here is in regard to a set of circumstances wherein the NCAA - without any investigation on its own part - inserts itself into a situation where none of its bylaws have been violated and its jurisdiction is at best questionable and imposes a Draconian punishment. What type of precedent does this set for an institution whose procedures are shrouded in mystery and is unaccountable for any of the judgments it renders?      
Click to expand...
 

I agree entirely with this however what is Penn State to do? Unless a large number of other programs are willing to join them in a lawsuit it would seem to be a no-win situation for them and who's going to join them considering the stench wafting from the program and school at this time.
 
I guess I'm in the minority here, but I'm glad Penn State got reemed by the NCAA.   

In fact, I was hoping for a true death penalty, meaning the program is done, kaput, extinct.
 
Penn State will undoubtedly get besieged by law suits and will probably pay a much larger price than that imposed by the NCAA; and, in my opinion, they ought to. I am merciless when it comes to anyone turning a blind's eye towards child abuse.

The point here is in regard to a set of circumstances wherein the NCAA - without any investigation on its own part - inserts itself into a situation where none of its bylaws have been violated and its jurisdiction is at best questionable and imposes a Draconian punishment. What type of precedent does this set for an institution whose procedures are shrouded in mystery and is unaccountable for any of the judgments it renders?      
Click to expand...
 

I agree entirely with this however what is Penn State to do? Unless a large number of other programs are willing to join them in a lawsuit it would seem to be a no-win situation for them and who's going to join them considering the stench wafting from the program and school at this time.
Click to expand...
 

You're quite right. It's not going to happen as a result of these most unfortunate circumstances..

I've heard there were serious conversations at USC in regard to taking on the NCAA but in the end it was decided that it was more trouble than it was worth. Looming over these discussions was the ominous threat of possibly becoming ostracized and isolated when it came to intercollegiate athletics

Nevertheless, someone should be keeping track of this organization's inconsistencies, injustices and clandestine mode of operation. The steps they take often adversely affect many people who don't deserve to suffer.

Something closer to home. It seems we still have no clear idea of exactly what the criteria are to determine what someone who was initially declared to be ineligible has to do to in order to qualify. As a result players (usually following the recommendations of those "better informed") do what they think will rectify the situation and then (along with coaches and fans) are left biting their fingernails waiting to see if they can play or not. Finally, the heavens open up and the decision is passed down.from up on high

p.s. the Romans had a great saying for a situation like this: Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?' Who is guarding the guardians?. 
 
I guess I'm in the minority here, but I'm glad Penn State got reemed by the NCAA.   

In fact, I was hoping for a true death penalty, meaning the program is done, kaput, extinct.
Click to expand...
 

You can be glad and still see how their actions are not appropriate to any of the guidelines set out in their bylaws. Once the lawsuits start rolling in the NCAA sanctions will likely be a minor worry compared to folks going to jail, paying out huge settlements and the ruining of the schools reputation. And those suits will be justified, the NCAA's actions just don't seem to be.
 
I guess I'm in the minority here, but I'm glad Penn State got reemed by the NCAA.   

In fact, I was hoping for a true death penalty, meaning the program is done, kaput, extinct.
Click to expand...
 

You can be glad and still see how their actions are not appropriate to any of the guidelines set out in their bylaws. Once the lawsuits start rolling in the NCAA sanctions will likely be a minor worry compared to folks going to jail, paying out huge settlements and the ruining of the schools reputation. And those suits will be justified, the NCAA's actions just don't seem to be.
Click to expand...
 

Has there ever been a more egregious example of "loss of institutional control" than an athletic department repeatedly covering up child rape?
 
I guess I'm in the minority here, but I'm glad Penn State got reemed by the NCAA.   

In fact, I was hoping for a true death penalty, meaning the program is done, kaput, extinct.
Click to expand...
 

You can be glad and still see how their actions are not appropriate to any of the guidelines set out in their bylaws. Once the lawsuits start rolling in the NCAA sanctions will likely be a minor worry compared to folks going to jail, paying out huge settlements and the ruining of the schools reputation. And those suits will be justified, the NCAA's actions just don't seem to be.
Click to expand...
 

I am curious after all the above comments regarding the NCAA actions what some of you would have preferred the NCAA do in the PennSt situation?

It appears PennSt had no problem with the NCAA recommendations. In fact, to their credit, they launched an investigation utilizing a respected FBI administrator, and not some in-house scam like the Syracuse investigation into the Bernie Fine abuse case.

From today's Associated Press:

"McQueary testified in December at a hearing that he had seen Sandusky and a boy, both naked, in a team shower after hearing skin-on-skin slapping sounds.
"I would have described that it was extremely sexual and I thought that some kind of intercourse was going on," McQueary said.
McQueary reported the abuse to school officials, including Paterno, but none of them told police. In a recent report conducted by former FBI Director Louis Freeh and commissioned by Penn State, the investigators excoriated Paterno and the other administrators for not attempting to identify Victim 2, saying it showed "a striking lack of empathy."


Read more:http://www.nypost.com/p/news/nation...sue_penn_DJiGVOPL0t8zJh6AnytkMM#ixzz21lKqKYDw
 
I guess I'm in the minority here, but I'm glad Penn State got reemed by the NCAA.   

In fact, I was hoping for a true death penalty, meaning the program is done, kaput, extinct.
Click to expand...
 

You can be glad and still see how their actions are not appropriate to any of the guidelines set out in their bylaws. Once the lawsuits start rolling in the NCAA sanctions will likely be a minor worry compared to folks going to jail, paying out huge settlements and the ruining of the schools reputation. And those suits will be justified, the NCAA's actions just don't seem to be.
Click to expand...
 

Has there ever been a more egregious example of "loss of institutional control" than an athletic department repeatedly covering up child rape?
Click to expand...
 

No but the loss of institutional control had nothing to do with the athletic department or athletes directly, which is the only part of the process the NCAA should have any say in. What occurred are crimes which are really under the auspices of law enforcement. If the NCAA's going to jump in every time there is a crime committed by a member of the athletic department or an athlete then that might make it a little different (if you're going to overstep your bounds at least do it with some consistency?) but they haven't and won't unless its a chance to make a grandstanding gesture. This gesture won't hurt the perpetrators, they're all gone, nor help the victims. If they donated the fine to a child abuse charity I also might be inclined to change my stance a little bit.
 
http://deadspin.com/5928267/penn-state-could-have-fought-the-ncaa-and-won 
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An interesting read Austour.
Personnaly, I think the NCAA issues harsh and unrealistic penalties for relatively minor violations while it is powerless when it comes to television networks controlling game schedules, conference alignments, loss of classroom time due to unreasonable travel requirements placed on its students (baseball players at West Virginia now have to travel 1200 miles for games).
Our free enterprise laws have created a conundrum when it comes to BCS football where conferences control games, playoffs and championships totally outside of NCAA purview. BCS football is likely the most corrupt college sports overlord ever and the billions of dollars paid to universities encourages the culture that put the football program ahead of child abuse by its staff at Penn State.
There is no easy solution but perhaps the rules need to be expanded over member schools to include situations like the Penn State issue as it pertains to the best interests of the sport and its students (not just the athletes).
All I know is that St. John's was hit with pretty harsh penalties (self-imposed) which involved $300 per month to a player while many would rather see no restrictions or penalties against Penn State because the rules do not specifically cover illicit activities by coaches on university athletic facilities and ignored by administrators from top to bottom for the sake and good name of the football program. What occurred tarnished the good name of the sport, the university and the past, present and future students of Penn State.
 
I guess I'm in the minority here, but I'm glad Penn State got reemed by the NCAA.   

In fact, I was hoping for a true death penalty, meaning the program is done, kaput, extinct.
Click to expand...
 

+ 100.
What would a school have to do to warrant the death penalty, rape young children?
Oh, yeah, that's already been established.
 
Has there ever been a more egregious example of "loss of institutional control" than an athletic department repeatedly covering up child rape?
Click to expand...
 
I hesitate to get involved in a discussion subject to censorship based upon what some might say in the future, but I suggest that murder is even more egregious than rape, so yes, there has been: Patrick Dennehy. I realize it's all about the children. But still, death is so, I don't know, final and whatnot.
 
Has there ever been a more egregious example of "loss of institutional control" than an athletic department repeatedly covering up child rape?
Click to expand...
 
I hesitate to get involved in a discussion subject to censorship based upon what some might say in the future, but I suggest that murder is even more egregious than rape, so yes, there has been: Patrick Dennehy. I realize it's all about the children. But still, death is so, I don't know, final and whatnot.
Click to expand...
 when you start with 'I hesitate to get involved' keep your mouth shut.
 
Has there ever been a more egregious example of "loss of institutional control" than an athletic department repeatedly covering up child rape?
Click to expand...
 
I hesitate to get involved in a discussion subject to censorship based upon what some might say in the future, but I suggest that murder is even more egregious than rape, so yes, there has been: Patrick Dennehy. I realize it's all about the children. But still, death is so, I don't know, final and whatnot.
Click to expand...
 when you start with 'I hesitate to get involved' keep your mouth shut.
Click to expand...
 
Sorry, that I hesitate stuff was irony, which as they say is wasted on the stupid. In fact, as my many fans know I rarely hesitate to express my opinion, which expression is often too frank, both in essence and method. I know that this makes many people uncomfortable and causes many big girl's blouses to wish me banished to the hinterlands like Napolean to Elba. Not that I'm comparing myself to the emperor of France mind you: he was a great man, whereas I'm merely a peasant. Although such may happen one day and it wouldn't be the first time and shurg if it does: I have bigger fry to fish. What I don't hesitate to say though without any irony whatsoever is that I find such people to be utter plonkers. If you don't like what is written the prudent course is to not read it. If you are so senstive that mere words offend you eschew the internets and go light a candle for the soul's sake: all our times would be better served. As to me shutting my mouth, that's unlikely. As to me shutting it based upon your suggestion, that's hilarious. In that regard I refer you to the code of conduct, which code your untoward suggestion violates. In fact, I suggest you apologize, or face pistols at dawn. My seconds will call on you. Or my thirds, my seconds are pretty wasted, happy hour having started early today, it being July. Our pre prandial was a thing called the Adios Amigos, two parts rum to one part vermouth, gin, cognac and lime. Kicks like a mule, as you might imagine. What were we talking about again? Oh yeah, me shutting my mouth. Unlikely, but I'll take it under advisement. On third thought, nevermind the pistol stuff, that was all bluster.
 
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