On Campus Sexual Assault Accusations

[quote="Jack Williams" post=313926][quote="Brian W." post=313921]1. Women are enrolling at Universities at 3x the rate thatmen are. Why? If the college system is infested with rapists why are women running towards it?

2. Why are rapes supposedly increasing while men are bailing out of the universities in droves?

This is just call-out culture at its finest. Women know the prestige and cultural significance of accusation. Accusation is more powerful than anything in our society, especially when it involves sex and race.

Also, its unprovable. "Unconcious bias" and "unwanted advance" are tools for power. It doesnt need to be proven. Just make the accusation online, wait for the crowd to gather, repeat...[/quote]


Did you seriously just imply that women should not try to attend universities and make advancements in their career because of the possibility they could be raped on campus?

That has got to be the dumbest thing I’ve ever read on this site. And it speaks to maybe why women are voicing these issues in the first place.

Again, as I stated initially, the way people are being accused on twitter under the SJU hashtag is troubling to me cause it’s just this one crusader naming a bunch of people with no verification or rhyme or reason behind it.

However, your post absolutely speaks to the lack of accountability that men have in society that has helped cause such harmful discussion.

The statistics on actual sexual assaults and false accusations do not add up the way Mike Zaun has stated.

The facts are that sexual assault and rape is a problem and it’s a lot more widespread than false accusations. Listen, I’m not saying don’t get upset by false accusations, frankly I think someone that accuses someone of rape when they didn’t do it should face charges.

You can be upset by false accusations as a man, but don’t ignore the bigger problem. The bigger problem, going from a purely statistical standpoint, not “feelings” as you suggested, is rape. Plain and simple. Rape is a bigger issue than false accusations of rape.

A gentle reminder, because I feel like it’s a lost art in this time in America, you can feel two things at once. You can respect women and feel for women who go through something so traumatizing, and at the same time be angry at a woman who falsely accuses a man of rape.

You shouldn’t condemn all women and feminists and feel like your whole life is under attack just because 2-10% of rape accusations end up being proven fake. Think about it, you’re so bent out of shape because 2-10 percent are proven fake, how do you think women feel given the numbers on rape and how frequently it is happening? Have a little perspective and put yourself in someone else’s shoes, yes even if it is the other gender[/quote]
Wow! What an absolutely brilliant and insightful post. It is with all sincerity I say that you are one of the smartest and most level headed posters on this site.
 
[quote="Jack Williams" post=313926][quote="Brian W." post=313921]1. Women are enrolling at Universities at 3x the rate thatmen are. Why? If the college system is infested with rapists why are women running towards it?

2. Why are rapes supposedly increasing while men are bailing out of the universities in droves?

This is just call-out culture at its finest. Women know the prestige and cultural significance of accusation. Accusation is more powerful than anything in our society, especially when it involves sex and race.

Also, its unprovable. "Unconcious bias" and "unwanted advance" are tools for power. It doesnt need to be proven. Just make the accusation online, wait for the crowd to gather, repeat...[/quote]


Did you seriously just imply that women should not try to attend universities and make advancements in their career because of the possibility they could be raped on campus?

That has got to be the dumbest thing I’ve ever read on this site. And it speaks to maybe why women are voicing these issues in the first place.

Again, as I stated initially, the way people are being accused on twitter under the SJU hashtag is troubling to me cause it’s just this one crusader naming a bunch of people with no verification or rhyme or reason behind it.

However, your post absolutely speaks to the lack of accountability that men have in society that has helped cause such harmful discussion.

The statistics on actual sexual assaults and false accusations do not add up the way Mike Zaun has stated.

The facts are that sexual assault and rape is a problem and it’s a lot more widespread than false accusations. Listen, I’m not saying don’t get upset by false accusations, frankly I think someone that accuses someone of rape when they didn’t do it should face charges.

You can be upset by false accusations as a man, but don’t ignore the bigger problem. The bigger problem, going from a purely statistical standpoint, not “feelings” as you suggested, is rape. Plain and simple. Rape is a bigger issue than false accusations of rape.

A gentle reminder, because I feel like it’s a lost art in this time in America, you can feel two things at once. You can respect women and feel for women who go through something so traumatizing, and at the same time be angry at a woman who falsely accuses a man of rape.

You shouldn’t condemn all women and feminists and feel like your whole life is under attack just because 2-10% of rape accusations end up being proven fake. Think about it, you’re so bent out of shape because 2-10 percent are proven fake, how do you think women feel given the numbers on rape and how frequently it is happening? Have a little perspective and put yourself in someone else’s shoes, yes even if it is the other gender[/quote]

Go back and read what I wrote. Stop twisting my words. I know SJU has a high acceptance rate but we both know what I implied, and it wasnt that women should stop enrolling.

I'll spell it out again for you. Women are enrolling at universities at a far highet rate than men. Men are bailing out of universities.

1. Why are women running towards the academy in droves, staying there for 4 years, if they are being brutally raped the entire time they are there? Its because they are not being raped.

People run FROM oppression, not TOWARDS it.

2. If male enrollment is going down (and it is) then doesnt it stand to reason that rape wouod also go down?

SJU is no different than Evergreen State. Its run by administrators who are lawyers and social justice activists. If you are unfamiliar with Evetgreen, baseless accusations pretty much destroyed that school. Until they accused the wrong professor of the wrong thing and he has made career out setting the record straight.

Again, your ststistics are meaningless since most 'rapes' go unreported then how many false accysations go unreported? No one knows, and no one cares to know. Because men like yourself are towing the line for the feminist, intersectional religion.

And this assault occurred on campus, which amounts to street rape. Anyone ovet 30 knows that the NYPD brought rape down by unbelievably significant nargins in 90's. Did one of our players drag her behind alumni hall.

This isnt Duke lacrosse. Oh wait, that was fake too. And that thing in Pittsburgh with our players? Fake. And extortionate.
 
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[quote="Tonyinfairfield " post=313970][quote="Marillac" post=313962][quote="Paul Massell" post=313958]The problem is that when one of the moderators locks this thread, those who are criticizing the victim culture and agendas will be victimized and their Constitutional rights will be violated and once again redmen.com is to blame and there will be talk of nazis, stalinists, big brother etc... #ironicironies[/quote]

Uncomfortable debate should be invited. I haven't seen anyone step over the line in this thread...or even come close to it.[/quote]

Agree, Marillac, but this is an emotionally charged issue. As you can see from reading some of these posts. I'm all for debate, even when it is on an uncomfortable subject. But this, IMHO, is the kind of topic that can not really be debated through posts.

And Paul, I hear what you're saying. But I thought freedom of speech did not apply to a private, online forum like this one. Just like one's right to privacy is limited if you work for a corporation and use its e-mail system for personal e-mails. I may be wrong, but that's what I thought.

I still think you should shut this down. It's taking us way off topic and I'm sure it's only a matter of time before emotions will get the best of some people and their posts will cross the line.

We are....St. John's.[/quote]

As a society we need to stop shying away from discussing uncomfortable topics. It only fuels polarizing views by letting people on both sides develop their stances in echo chambers filled with like-minded peers.

I'm sure there is a very sizeable middle ground we can find. Rape is awful and all rapists should be prosecuted swiftly and harshly.

False accusations also ruin lives and they are becoming more and more common as the defintion of rape and sexual assault is expanded. Some people believe regretting a sexual encounter weeks later is rape. If so, I have a few fatties and a handful of women who were deceptive with their makeup I need to charge. I mean they look like 9's in the club and the 4's in the morning. How can a fella possibly consent to that sorcery?
 
[quote="Marillac" post=313977][quote="Tonyinfairfield " post=313970][quote="Marillac" post=313962][quote="Paul Massell" post=313958]The problem is that when one of the moderators locks this thread, those who are criticizing the victim culture and agendas will be victimized and their Constitutional rights will be violated and once again redmen.com is to blame and there will be talk of nazis, stalinists, big brother etc... #ironicironies[/quote]

Uncomfortable debate should be invited. I haven't seen anyone step over the line in this thread...or even come close to it.[/quote]

Agree, Marillac, but this is an emotionally charged issue. As you can see from reading some of these posts. I'm all for debate, even when it is on an uncomfortable subject. But this, IMHO, is the kind of topic that can not really be debated through posts.

And Paul, I hear what you're saying. But I thought freedom of speech did not apply to a private, online forum like this one. Just like one's right to privacy is limited if you work for a corporation and use its e-mail system for personal e-mails. I may be wrong, but that's what I thought.

I still think you should shut this down. It's taking us way off topic and I'm sure it's only a matter of time before emotions will get the best of some people and their posts will cross the line.

We are....St. John's.[/quote]

As a society we need to stop shying away from discussing uncomfortable topics. It only fuels polarizing views by letting people on both sides develop their stances in echo chambers filled with like-minded peers.

I'm sure there is a very sizeable middle ground we can find. Rape is awful and all rapists should be prosecuted swiftly and harshly.

False accusations also ruin lives and they are becoming more and more common as the defintion of rape and sexual assault is expanded. Some people believe regretting a sexual encounter weeks later is rape. If so, I have a few fatties and a handful of women who were deceptive with their makeup I need to charge. I mean they look like 9's in the club and the 4's in the morning. How can a fella possibly consent to that sorcery?[/quote]

100%. I'm proud of everyone for being respectful even if many of us have differing POV's on this issue. Jack, I enjoy your posts, but you're currently in an echochamber in college whether or not you realize it. I didn't have one conservative professor for undergrad or grad school. You're going to get the SJW propaganda and they will assure you it's all the rage with supporting "stats", etc. The truth is that the "stats" about rape are very misleading intentionally. If you wanted to invent an "epidemic of speeding" you could change the definition of speeding to be anything from 10 MPH to 100 MPH instead of 80 MPH and above like most would likely define it reasonably. So you have to look at the agendas that drive these "studies" and "stats". Rape used to refer to something very serious. Now all it means is regretting a hookup. Is that rape to you? Look at some of the student groups calling for more diversity at the most diverse school practically in the USA. Some of the groups responding to the Twitter post blatantly said it's even worse if you're sexually assaulted being a certain skin color. So if you're white it isn't as bad to get raped or assaulted? These are the people you are excusing.

It makes zero sense anymore. It's all just outrage culture. It's all about the agendas and not facts. They need to invent false issues to push the narrative, because without victims, there's no narrative and it all falls apart. I take sexual assault and rape as seriously as you do, Jack...but you will see some different perspectives once you leave college. Google "Trigglypuff" and realize that is what you're defending. There is a large segment of the university age population that simply manufactures outrage for a living even if the content they're outraged about is not true or overblown. I'm proud that everyone has been pretty respectful. These conversations are so badly needed this day in age where everyone is deathly afraid to even discuss this stuff with others. If you have a different opinion, that's fine. You can still have a great and productive conversation.

=162s
 
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yea we have different opinions. And its not because i am in college or anything you said, it is because I just firmly believe that rape and sexual assault is happening quite a bit more than false accusations of rape are happening. And there are numerous sites that back that up but Ive been told by people in this thread that stats are manufactured to fit a narrative.

you can believe what you want and I will believe what I want. You can name examples all you want too, Trigglypuff, i believe someone else named the Duke Lacrosse scandal. For every one of those, theres a brock turner, and countless horrible situations where there is no one trying to be a victim, but they just are because they were attacked.

"they need to invent false issues to push a narrative" - Rape on college campus is not a false issue, it is real. Like i said earlier, we could banter all day about the extent of how bad it is, and we could talk all day about numerous feminists who have radicalized the movement and made it worse, but that does not mean the issue at its core isnt real. That is where we dont see eye to eye
 
[quote="Jack Williams" post=314007]yea we have different opinions. And its not because i am in college or anything you said, it is because I just firmly believe that rape and sexual assault is happening quite a bit more than false accusations of rape are happening. And there are numerous sites that back that up but Ive been told by people in this thread that stats are manufactured to fit a narrative.

you can believe what you want and I will believe what I want. You can name examples all you want too, Trigglypuff, i believe someone else named the Duke Lacrosse scandal. For every one of those, theres a brock turner, and countless horrible situations where there is no one trying to be a victim, but they just are because they were attacked.

"they need to invent false issues to push a narrative" - Rape on college campus is not a false issue, it is real. Like i said earlier, we could banter all day about the extent of how bad it is, and we could talk all day about numerous feminists who have radicalized the movement and made it worse, but that does not mean the issue at its core isnt real. That is where we dont see eye to eye[/quote]

College is an echochamber especially today. That was one of my points. You're being fed the same ideology day in and day out. Again, I used to be quite liberal not very long ago. What turned me off was their embrace of victim culture and identity politics focusing on what people look like instead of ideas, both of which are woven together with the rape culture agenda. They're all related. It just gives college students a warped view of reality. Think about it, no one in your academic experience ever makes challenges like myself and others on here most likely if I had to guess. So again, is regretting previous intimate encounters retroactively rape or not? Because that's the kind of stuff that goes into the stats you reference.

Any objective person would admit that's obviously not rape. It's now a subjective term which is absurd. I enjoy watching YouTube debates about 3rd rail topics like this and truly enjoy seeing both sides. Colleges are some of the safest places in the US. To make it seem like there are sexual predators behind every turn just waiting to pounce is absurd. The point of the Twitter hashtag was to try and make it seem like the second you set foot on campus, you are tackled and raped. Well, that's BS. They implied our admins covered it up and didn't care, when the ABC article says we actually have some of the strongest policy against harassment in NYS. That won't slow SJW's down though, they just want to keep outrage culture going. They want to make their demands so they get more power.
 
I want to apologize to the moderators for my contribution to this discussion, there’s a reason I stay away from the other forums and focus solely on the basketball program, and it’s in vivid display on this thread. I would however like to quickly address the posters that assume a political or social agenda, that’s not true. I comment as a criminal defense attorney, stepfather of a 11 year old daughter, proud alum and fanatic supporter of our program. When I reference credible accusation, I refer to an accusation that is investigated by NYPD, and deemed worthy of a criminal felony charge. That’s not a conviction, but professionals from both law enforcement agency’s believing that there is probable cause for an arrest, and a Court allowing the State to proceed. The decision to prosecute is not taken lightly. I believe in the accused’s right to due process under the law, but on a college campus the University faces not just a moral imperative to forward complaints of sexual misconduct to authorities but a calamity to the University if it doesn’t. I live in a city where the entire US Women’s Gymnastics is about to fold for a pattern of ignoring, enabling, and otherwise serving as an accessory to the actions of Michigan State. I’m not stating a political viewpoint, I’m coming from an experienced legal professional, stepdad, and alum. I’m not suggesting that Ponds or anyone else is guilty of a crime because of a hashtag, I love rooting for him, but we are a Catholic University, and no one is above the values of the University. That was my sole point.
 
[quote="indyredmen97" post=314042]I want to apologize to the moderators for my contribution to this discussion, there’s a reason I stay away from the other forums and focus solely on the basketball program, and it’s in vivid display on this thread. I would however like to quickly address the posters that assume a political or social agenda, that’s not true. I comment as a criminal defense attorney, stepfather of a 11 year old daughter, proud alum and fanatic supporter of our program. When I reference credible accusation, I refer to an accusation that is investigated by NYPD, and deemed worthy of a criminal felony charge. That’s not a conviction, but professionals from both law enforcement agency’s believing that there is probable cause for an arrest, and a Court allowing the State to proceed. The decision to prosecute is not taken lightly. I believe in the accused’s right to due process under the law, but on a college campus the University faces not just a moral imperative to forward complaints of sexual misconduct to authorities but a calamity to the University if it doesn’t. I live in a city where the entire US Women’s Gymnastics is about to fold for a pattern of ignoring, enabling, and otherwise serving as an accessory to the actions of Michigan State. I’m not stating a political viewpoint, I’m coming from an experienced legal professional, stepdad, and alum. I’m not suggesting that Ponds or anyone else is guilty of a crime because of a hashtag, I love rooting for him, but we are a Catholic University, and no one is above the values of the University. That was my sole point.[/quote]

You have nothing to apologize for. You've always been respectful and while I doubt we will ever agree much on issues like this, it's nice to know that a civil discussion can exist. No one has to convince each other of anything, just being exposed to differing ideas is what is missing today in America IMO. Kudos to mods for allowing the discourse. At least at the end of the day though we have different beliefs and opinions, we all root like hell for the same program!
 
I sat on a domestic violence board for 6 years and what I can say is that it opened my eyes greatly. The problems are real and growing each year. The issues are getting bigger in colleges, however most will do whatever they can to keep it quiet. I would say the numbers out there are probably on the low side for actually rape.

There should be punishment for anyone who falsely reports an accusation. False accusations keep the people who actually got raped from reporting because the fear of people not believing them.
 
After investigation and contemplation, probably best to lock this subject.

Advise any that assaults are criminal and should not only be reported to university for disciplinary action, but authorities for criminal investigation.
 
[quote="Mike" post=314052]I sat on a domestic violence board for 6 years and what I can say is that it opened my eyes greatly. The problems are real and growing each year. The issues are getting bigger in colleges, however most will do whatever they can to keep it quiet. I would say the numbers out there are probably on the low side for actually rape.

There should be punishment for anyone who falsely reports an accusation. False accusations keep the people who actually got raped from reporting because the fear of people not believing them.[/quote]

Thank you for posting this. I jumped into this discussion because I have teenagers who will be going to college in a couple of years and this is certainly something that I discuss with friends in the same position. I am now heading back to basketball and looking forward to Saturday’s game which I will be attending with my son. My daughter and wife were gracious enough to attend the Seton Hall game with us and for the first year in a long time are asking me who won the games which makes me really happy.
 
There is a lot of traumatic emotional damage wrapped up in a sexual assault, but it appears every victim who has posted stuff, and every accusation that SJU hasn't responded adequately, falls far short of demanding that these be reported as crimes. Perhaps St. John's should hire counselors for victims of sexual assault, if they do not have expertise on staff already (which I would be surprised if they don't). However, to expel someone for sexual assault whose behavior falls far below a criminal standard, or the victim refusing to press charges, especially for actions that sometimes occur off campus, would only cause uproars in the other direction in terms of university actions against males accused but not criminally liable.

Rather than blame the school, why not a student action for personal sexual responsibility, to watch out for dirtbags either trying to get girls drunk at parties or going after drunk chicks as pickup targets. As much as there is an outcry, there is still overwhelmingly the notion of screwing anything as something of a goal for college men. Girls are not exempt from this, and should consider the consequences of finding themselves in that circumstance because of some reckless substance abuse.
 
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[quote="Andrew" post=313860][quote="Beast of the East" post=313857]Zaun post contains harsh realities of the tremendous power of #metoo. For certain many allegations against prominent powerful men were true. For certain any allegation, even if untrue can destroy the reputation of the accused, and often cast from the shadows.

Social media wields incredible power and can be used recklessly anonymously at times.

Protecting the innocent accused and privacy and anonymity of victims are often mutually exclusive.

College life is especially vulnerable. The culture of hookups has surpassed the culture of dating on campuses, with many students never having been on an actual date yet are sexually active. The lines between consensual and non consensual sex appear clear but even each participant can have radically different and changing views if what occurred and how.

Scary times for certain.[/quote]

Beast - I often disagree with you on your political/social posts but on this topic you are spot on. Having a teenage son and daughter, I find myself just as concerned about my son being falsely accused of sexual misconduct as I do my daughter being a victim. I know that may not be a politically correct statement but as a parent that is how I feel.[/quote]

I haven't been on much this week and just saw this thread. As a father of a boy who graduated from a college out of town, a daughter who graduated (after her first two years were spent on campus at St. John's) and now is in grad school as an out of town school and a son who just began High School, I am concerned about the same thing. And the fact that my oldest is out of school now doesn't change anything.
 
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[quote="indyredmen97" post=314042]I want to apologize to the moderators for my contribution to this discussion, there’s a reason I stay away from the other forums and focus solely on the basketball program, and it’s in vivid display on this thread... .[/quote]

I stay away from the non-sport forums too and didn't realize until just now that this wasn't the basketball forum (when I go on I guess I was on the recent topics page, saw the title and clicked on.
 
[quote="L J S A" post=313850]She just tweeted that a guy named Jack Williams has apparently been added to the list.[/quote]

Rumor has it that Jack might be charged with assault with a dead weapon.:unsure: :eek:hmy:


sorry Jack.
 
[quote="bobo" post=314164][quote="L J S A" post=313850]She just tweeted that a guy named Jack Williams has apparently been added to the list.[/quote]

Rumor has it that Jack might be charged with assault with a dead weapon.:unsure: :eek:hmy:


sorry Jack.[/quote]

It reminds me of that movie "The 40 Year Old Virgin". Steve Carrell says to his friend, "I respect women! I respect them so much that I completely stay away from them!". Funny, yet sad because that's where this stuff leads...that's the end game if good men don't push back on the hoaxes and exaggeration in many cases. It doesn't matter what the real vs. hoax ratio is, because we all know there are more than enough hoaxes. It's a significant amount. Even one hoax is too much just like 1 real sexual harassment incident is too much...these are people's lives who get ruined forever. Do we really want to live in a world where men are too scared to even approach women for fear of being seen as "creepy" and "harassing"? It's already happening and many women complain of this very thing.

There's already a massive trend where young people are not dating or getting married...just random hookups. That's a result of this movement going too far. If you actually talk to women outside of a university echochamber type setting, you will see many women think it's a turn off when men stop acting like men and are too scared to pursue women and take chances. By all means you should be respectful to women, but taking a chance is not harassment if it's respectful and well-intentioned. Of course if the woman is clearly not interested and tells you to buzz off, then obviously you should. The real issue is that many true cases of rape/harassment are occurring and many hoaxes are occurring. Again, bringing up ratio is a strawman. Both happen at significant levels. The rape/harassment cases are reported on the front page constantly and receive tons of media attention. The problem is that when it turns out that some of these were hoaxes, the media is silent and there's zero push-back or accountability e.g. the false accuser going to jail. The coverage is totally out of proportion. Cover both equally and jail false accusers and we'd be in a much better place.
 
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[quote="Redman#13" post=314602]Does anyone else think Ponds sitting out might have something to do with this, because his name was mentioned[/quote]

The thought never crossed my mind.

Signed,
Pinocchio
 
[quote="Monte" post=314651][quote="Redman#13" post=314602]Does anyone else think Ponds sitting out might have something to do with this, because his name was mentioned[/quote]

The thought never crossed my mind.

Signed,
Pinocchio[/quote]

Why do I suddenly feel much worse than losing just one game to depaul
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=314676][quote="Monte" post=314651][quote="Redman#13" post=314602]Does anyone else think Ponds sitting out might have something to do with this, because his name was mentioned[/quote]

The thought never crossed my mind.

Signed,
Pinocchio[/quote]

Why do I suddenly feel much worse than losing just one game to depaul[/quote]

Must say I had the same thought especially after the post on the game thread about rumors that the DNP was more than an injury. I don't believe it, but it does reinforce the point that Beast and others have made about the power of accusations whether true or not. Having served on conduct boards I have seen this first hand and it is frightening.
 
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