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[quote="usguard" post=295553]Yes we should not be satisfied for 75-100 recruits . I thought that’s why we brought in a famous alum and HoFer and NBA great. Any coach making a million less can work with numbers 75-100
If that is our expectations after 3-4 yrs it was not a good
Hirer[/quote]

I see it 2 ways. I think it fair that we had ‘high hopes’ for Top 2019 Recruits, because we offered and tracked them, very early on. Even with recent disappointments there—Antoine, Lewis, mayb Aidan—we still seem to be at least in the mix for Precious and Kofi.
But beyond that, I think this Board would light up if we were to ‘sign’ kids ranked 75 - 100 this year.
Ponds is the only Top 50 HS kid CM has signed; even self-vaunted Bright Lights LoVett was ranked 62 by Rivals and unranked by 247Sports.
And last year, this Board shrieked for the nano-second J’Raan Brooks (#73-77) verbally committed to us.
Once, we post a few 25+ win seasons, we should be a legitimate ‘ contender’ for Top 50 kids.
Not before.
 
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[quote="MCNPA" post=295555]Well I’m not sure why hiring a recruiter to replace Slice isn’t a priority for this staff. Matt has done an amazing job but he can’t effectively do it alone.[/quote]

Serious question. When Ron Rutledge was our recruiter, who was the #2 assistant whose sole job was recruiting?
 
[quote="Chicago Days" post=295561]
I see it 2 ways. I think it fair that we had ‘high hopes’ for Top 2019 Recruits, because we offered and tracked them, very early on. Even with recent disappointments there—Antoine, Lewis, mayb Aidan—we still seem to be at least in the mix for Precious and Kofi.
But beyond that, I think this Board would light up if we were to ‘sign’ kids ranked 75 - 100 this year.
Ponds is the only Top 50 HS kid CM has signed; even self-vaunted Bright Lights LoVett was ranked 62 by Rivals and unranked by 247Sports.
And last year, this Board shrieked for the nano-second J’Raan Brooks (#73-77) verbally committed to us.
Once, we post a few 25+ win seasons, we should be a legitimate ‘ contender’ for Top 50 kids.
Not before.[/quote]

What few 25+ seasons has Vanderbilt put together to garner commitments from two top 15 kids in the '18 class?

I'm not saying St. John's even have to land top 15 kids, but this belief we need a few seasons of winning 25 or more games to nab top 50 kids doesn't register. Maybe, if you stated top 10 or 20 kids, then I may understand. But not top 50 recruits.

It takes busting ass more than your competitors. Being we're not your typical destination, then our staff has to work extra hard. It won't always pay off, but there will times it'll tremendously pay off.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=295564][quote="MCNPA" post=295555]Well I’m not sure why hiring a recruiter to replace Slice isn’t a priority for this staff. Matt has done an amazing job but he can’t effectively do it alone.[/quote]

Serious question. When Ron Rutledge was our recruiter, who was the #2 assistant whose sole job was recruiting?[/quote]

Times have changed a bit in the last 20 years Beast.
 
[quote="MJDinkins" post=295568][quote="Chicago Days" post=295561]
I see it 2 ways. I think it fair that we had ‘high hopes’ for Top 2019 Recruits, because we offered and tracked them, very early on. Even with recent disappointments there—Antoine, Lewis, mayb Aidan—we still seem to be at least in the mix for Precious and Kofi.
But beyond that, I think this Board would light up if we were to ‘sign’ kids ranked 75 - 100 this year.
Ponds is the only Top 50 HS kid CM has signed; even self-vaunted Bright Lights LoVett was ranked 62 by Rivals and unranked by 247Sports.
And last year, this Board shrieked for the nano-second J’Raan Brooks (#73-77) verbally committed to us.
Once, we post a few 25+ win seasons, we should be a legitimate ‘ contender’ for Top 50 kids.
Not before.[/quote]

What few 25+ seasons has Vanderbilt put together to garner commitments from two top 15 kids in the '18 class?

I'm not saying St. John's even have to land top 15 kids, but this belief we need a few seasons of winning 25 or more games to nab top 50 kids doesn't register. Maybe, if you stated top 10 or 20 kids, then I may understand. But not top 50 recruits.

It takes busting ass more than your competitors. Being we're not your typical destination, then our staff has to work extra hard. It won't always pay off, but there will times it'll tremendously pay off.[/quote]

It's also about using your resources efficiently, and going after winnable deals. It isn't always just about effort.

I wonder what Vanderbilt's policy is regarding relaxing academic standards for basketball recruits. I believe they are ranked nationally about #16. I would guess both Georgetown and UNC relax their standards quite a bit, but Harvard less so. Just curious.
 
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[quote="MJDinkins" post=295568][quote="Chicago Days" post=295561]
I see it 2 ways. I think it fair that we had ‘high hopes’ for Top 2019 Recruits, because we offered and tracked them, very early on. Even with recent disappointments there—Antoine, Lewis, mayb Aidan—we still seem to be at least in the mix for Precious and Kofi.
But beyond that, I think this Board would light up if we were to ‘sign’ kids ranked 75 - 100 this year.
Ponds is the only Top 50 HS kid CM has signed; even self-vaunted Bright Lights LoVett was ranked 62 by Rivals and unranked by 247Sports.
And last year, this Board shrieked for the nano-second J’Raan Brooks (#73-77) verbally committed to us.
Once, we post a few 25+ win seasons, we should be a legitimate ‘ contender’ for Top 50 kids.
Not before.[/quote]

What few 25+ seasons has Vanderbilt put together to garner commitments from two top 15 kids in the '18 class?

I'm not saying St. John's even have to land top 15 kids, but this belief we need a few seasons of winning 25 or more games to nab top 50 kids doesn't register. Maybe, if you stated top 10 or 20 kids, then I may understand. But not top 50 recruits.

It takes busting ass more than your competitors. Being we're not your typical destination, then our staff has to work extra hard. It won't always pay off, but there will times it'll tremendously pay off.[/quote]

You make great points, Dink. I should’ve refined it to Top 20-25 kids. I agree with you and Beast: It’s critical to bust your butt to get Top Talent and to use resources efficiently and not reach for pipe dreams as Plans A, B, and C.
But, with our current structure—absent 25+ Seasons, getting Top 50 kids seems unreachable.
Hopefully, we get lucky with Precious or Aidan or Kofi, but that’d be because we were there very early and notably developed solid relationships with those 3 top notch kids—but given the craziness of the competition we may still fall short on.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=295571][quote="MJDinkins" post=295568][quote="Chicago Days" post=295561]
I see it 2 ways. I think it fair that we had ‘high hopes’ for Top 2019 Recruits, because we offered and tracked them, very early on. Even with recent disappointments there—Antoine, Lewis, mayb Aidan—we still seem to be at least in the mix for Precious and Kofi.
But beyond that, I think this Board would light up if we were to ‘sign’ kids ranked 75 - 100 this year.
Ponds is the only Top 50 HS kid CM has signed; even self-vaunted Bright Lights LoVett was ranked 62 by Rivals and unranked by 247Sports.
And last year, this Board shrieked for the nano-second J’Raan Brooks (#73-77) verbally committed to us.
Once, we post a few 25+ win seasons, we should be a legitimate ‘ contender’ for Top 50 kids.
Not before.[/quote]

What few 25+ seasons has Vanderbilt put together to garner commitments from two top 15 kids in the '18 class?

I'm not saying St. John's even have to land top 15 kids, but this belief we need a few seasons of winning 25 or more games to nab top 50 kids doesn't register. Maybe, if you stated top 10 or 20 kids, then I may understand. But not top 50 recruits.

It takes busting ass more than your competitors. Being we're not your typical destination, then our staff has to work extra hard. It won't always pay off, but there will times it'll tremendously pay off.[/quote]

It's also about using your resources efficiently, and going after winnable deals. It isn't always just about effort.[/quote]

Agree, it's not always about effort. I basically stated that effort won't always pay off. But I'd rather have a staff that puts forth maximum effort than not. I'll take my chances per the former.

Using resources does occasionally come into play, but my point still stands in reference to what has Vandy accomplished to land two top 15 players in the '18 class?

I doubt both kids view themselves as being around long enough to graduate.
 
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Rutledge is before my time and I’m gonna be 43 this year. Times have certainly changed. We also have not been able to land the high school talent to get us to the dance and consistently successful. The proof is in the pudding.

There are zero teams out there who only have one recruiter. We are also running one staff position short since jettisoning Slice. We thought he was important enough to deserve a ridiculous contract back then. Now the position is not necessary? I’m not getting it? Need another assistant who can recruit and help with coaching period. Matt had done a great job with transfers and jucos. Amazing job. Filling that position is still important though. Mullin isn’t willing to put the time in recruiting which compounds it.
 
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[quote="MCNPA" post=295576]Rutledge is before my time and I’m gonna be 43 this year. Times have certainly changed. We also have not been able to land the high school talent to get us to the dance and consistently successful. The proof is in the pudding.

There are zero teams out there who only have one recruiter. We are also running one staff position short since jettisoning Slice. We thought he was important enough to deserve a ridiculous contract back then. Now the position is not necessary? I’m not getting it? Need another assistant who can recruit and help with coaching period. Matt had done a great job with transfers and jucos. Amazing job. Filling that position is still important though. Mullin isn’t willing to put the time in recruiting which compounds it.[/quote]

Agree that it would be good to have second recruiter, but was asking legitimately. Did lavin have 2? Norm?
 
[quote="MJDinkins" post=295573][quote="Beast of the East" post=295571][quote="MJDinkins" post=295568][quote="Chicago Days" post=295561]
I see it 2 ways. I think it fair that we had ‘high hopes’ for Top 2019 Recruits, because we offered and tracked them, very early on. Even with recent disappointments there—Antoine, Lewis, mayb Aidan—we still seem to be at least in the mix for Precious and Kofi.
But beyond that, I think this Board would light up if we were to ‘sign’ kids ranked 75 - 100 this year.
Ponds is the only Top 50 HS kid CM has signed; even self-vaunted Bright Lights LoVett was ranked 62 by Rivals and unranked by 247Sports.
And last year, this Board shrieked for the nano-second J’Raan Brooks (#73-77) verbally committed to us.
Once, we post a few 25+ win seasons, we should be a legitimate ‘ contender’ for Top 50 kids.
Not before.[/quote]

What few 25+ seasons has Vanderbilt put together to garner commitments from two top 15 kids in the '18 class?

I'm not saying St. John's even have to land top 15 kids, but this belief we need a few seasons of winning 25 or more games to nab top 50 kids doesn't register. Maybe, if you stated top 10 or 20 kids, then I may understand. But not top 50 recruits.

It takes busting ass more than your competitors. Being we're not your typical destination, then our staff has to work extra hard. It won't always pay off, but there will times it'll tremendously pay off.[/quote]

It's also about using your resources efficiently, and going after winnable deals. It isn't always just about effort.[/quote]

Agree, it's not always about effort. I basically stated that effort won't always pay off. But I'd rather have a staff that puts forth maximum effort than not. I'll take my chances per the former.

Using resources does occasionally come into play, but my point still stands in reference to what has Vandy accomplished to land two top 15 players in the '18 class?

I doubt both kids view themselves as being around long enough to graduate.[/quote]

No question that busting your butt isn't nice to have, but maximum effort is a baseline requirement.

Sometimes teams get lucky. We had no business landing both Zendon and Felipe but it happened, though neither one was exactly what we hoped for - we were proclaiming championship caliber teams. Sometimes two kids want to play together, and maybe for one Vandy was a dream school, especially if the kid is a good student. I don't have time to be presumptuous.
 
[quote="MCNPA" post=295576]Rutledge is before my time and I’m gonna be 43 this year. Times have certainly changed. We also have not been able to land the high school talent to get us to the dance and consistently successful. The proof is in the pudding.

There are zero teams out there who only have one recruiter. We are also running one staff position short since jettisoning Slice. We thought he was important enough to deserve a ridiculous contract back then. Now the position is not necessary? I’m not getting it? Need another assistant who can recruit and help with coaching period. Matt had done a great job with transfers and jucos. Amazing job. Filling that position is still important though. Mullin isn’t willing to put the time in recruiting which compounds it.[/quote]

During the Louie, Rutledge and Mahoney years all three did recruiting locally. On the road it was basically Ron and Brian. Louie rarely got on a plane to recruit.
All the subsequent head coaches made trips outside NYC with their lead recruiter to visit targets. Ironically Norm Roberts made his bones as a recruiter but attracted mid major talent at best. The Lavin era was actually very similar to the Mullin era. Tony Chiles was the lead recruiter but Lavin made it his business to travel to see recruits both in the US and overseas. With both Lavin and now Mullin, recruiting may have been more successful had assistants like Rico Hines and Mitch Richmond been more involved. The bottom line is that the head coach dictates roles on his staff and the buck always stops at his door.
 
Rutledge, Mahoney, and Lou were all good closers, and well liked by coaches and parents. Makes a difference.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=295581][quote="MCNPA" post=295576]Rutledge is before my time and I’m gonna be 43 this year. Times have certainly changed. We also have not been able to land the high school talent to get us to the dance and consistently successful. The proof is in the pudding.

There are zero teams out there who only have one recruiter. We are also running one staff position short since jettisoning Slice. We thought he was important enough to deserve a ridiculous contract back then. Now the position is not necessary? I’m not getting it? Need another assistant who can recruit and help with coaching period. Matt had done a great job with transfers and jucos. Amazing job. Filling that position is still important though. Mullin isn’t willing to put the time in recruiting which compounds it.[/quote]

During the Louie, Rutledge and Mahoney years all three did recruiting locally. On the road it was basically Ron and Brian. Louie rarely got on a plane to recruit.
All the subsequent head coaches made trips outside NYC with their lead recruiter to visit targets. Ironically Norm Roberts made his bones as a recruiter but attracted mid major talent at best. The Lavin era was actually very similar to the Mullin era. Tony Chiles was the lead recruiter but Lavin made it his business to travel to see recruits both in the US and overseas. With both Lavin and now Mullin, recruiting may have been more successful had assistants like Rico Hines and Mitch Richmond been more involved. The bottom line is that the head coach dictates roles on his staff and the buck always stops at his door.[/quote] I remember a long time ago on the other site the poster Choz4life saying something to the effect that Lavin was the best in home recruiter he ever saw and he had been on in homes with pretty much every Gaucho kid with all kinds of coaches or something like that. Said Lavin even knew the pets names. Too bad he tailed off and you are definitely right that he needed more than Chiles especially after he got cancer.

With Norm I thought Braica also recruited but that Q was the main guy but my memory is shot going back that far and my mind tried erasing the Norm Error years
 
I'd love if Zach would be able to get a legit sit down interview w/ Mullin prior to season not so much as to upcoming season but reflections on his first three years, his current approach to recruiting, staffing, coaching etc.

What questions would you most want to see asked (knowing can't ask about specific kids, or personnel)
 
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[quote="RedStormNC" post=295590]I'd love if Zach would be able to get a legit sit down interview w/ Mullin prior to season not so much as to upcoming season but reflections on his first three years, his current approach to recruiting, staffing, coaching etc.

What questions would you most want to see asked (knowing can't ask about specific kids, or personnel)[/quote]

I think Chris could be asked: 1) If he is satisfied with the Staff’s current structure vis-a-vis pre-game matchup adjustments, player-development capabilities, and the recruiting management grind.
2) What does he view his recruiting role to be.
3) What is the most challenging aspect of his job.
4) What does he think the team has to show the most improvement on in 2018-19 versus last year on both offense and defense.
5) The challenges he faces to keep his players motivated and in-sync with the program and team.
6) What goes into determining our OOC schedule, year-in and out. Is it difficult for St. John’s to get competeitive to very-competitive games against other teams?
7) How important is it to him to have St, John’s play in a more modern and attractive arena than CA, and/or how critical the need to play more games in MSG or another public arena to both attract recruits and heighten the programs’s reputation.
 
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[quote="Chicago Days" post=295591][quote="RedStormNC" post=295590]I'd love if Zach would be able to get a legit sit down interview w/ Mullin prior to season not so much as to upcoming season but reflections on his first three years, his current approach to recruiting, staffing, coaching etc.

What questions would you most want to see asked (knowing can't ask about specific kids, or personnel)[/quote]

I think Chris could be asked: 1) If he is satisfied with the Staff’s current structure vis-a-vis pre-game matchup adjustments, player-development capabilities, and the recruiting management grind.
2) What does he view his recruiting role to be.
3) What is the most challenging aspect of his job.
4) What does he think the team has to show the most improvement on in 2018-19 versus last year on both offense and defense.
5) The challenges he faces to keep his players motivated and in-sync with the program and team.
6) What goes into determining our OOC schedule, year-in and out. Is it difficult for St. John’s to get competeitive to very-competitive games against other teams?
7) How important is it to him to have St, John’s play in a more modern and attractive arena than CA, and/or how critical the need to play more games in MSG or another public arena to both attract recruits and heighten the programs’s reputation.[/quote]

Terrific questions. Would love to have somebody hold Mullin accountable. Good luck
 
I believe the answer to number 1 would be “Yes, I am satisfied with my staff’s current structure.” If he wasn’t, I would think another change or changes would have been made besides the DOBO position (not sure if this has actually been confirmed).
 
SJU85 wrote: believe the answer to number 1 would be “Yes, I am satisfied with my staff’s current structure.” If he wasn’t, I would think another change or changes would have been made besides the DOBO position (not sure if this has actually been confirmed).

Agree and, for obvious reasons, he would never say anything but that he is satisfied even if he were contemplating changes.
 
[quote="RedStormNC" post=295590]I'd love if Zach would be able to get a legit sit down interview w/ Mullin prior to season not so much as to upcoming season but reflections on his first three years, his current approach to recruiting, staffing, coaching etc.

What questions would you most want to see asked (knowing can't ask about specific kids, or personnel)[/quote]
Would not be surprised to see that happen at some point.
 
Paultz, for a second I looked at your avatar and thought it depicted Heron calling a timeout which scared me to death. Then I examined closer and saw him applauding. Talk about a roller coaster of emotions before 9 AM.
 
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