Official Seton Hall Game Thread

[logen]

Awesome pass, fantastic win! These guys now know how to close under pressure. Bring on Georgetown!

It's funny because it isn't 100% consensus, but a lot of coaches love the bounce pass, because to get it by defenders it's naturally a lot lower. It also bounces up to the recipient making it easy to catch and shoot. Some coaches like an aerial pass, the old fashioned chest pass, because it gets there faster. Obviously the circumstance should rule. In this case, the bounce pass was perfectly executed.

Teammates are going to begin to realize that if they cut and get open, then Rysheed will find them. That, along with his exuberance, was the change the Magic Johnson brought to the Lakers. If you are open, if you cut, you'd better be ready for a pass, because he will find you.

BTW that should have been an intentional foul. There was no play on the ball just an intentional shove on the back.

From wiki (not the best source)

In basketball, a flagrant foul is a serious personal foul. A foul is considered flagrant when it involves excessive or violent contact which could injure the fouled player. It is distinct from an intentional foul, which is a tactic permitted within the game as long as the foul is not considered flagrant.

obviously intentional fouls are committed all the time to extend games but when a guy is going up for a layup or dunk and is shoved in the back that is different then fouling a guy in the backcourt and Obepka did take a pretty good fall.

According to the NCAA rule book, a Flagrant 1 foul occurs when a player "swings an elbow and makes non-excessive contact with an opponent above the shoulders."

so for future reference you don't need to make a play on the ball when a guy is going up for a dunk? A push in the back is fine?

Just let it go! We won the game. People on this board will find a reason to complain about anything!! They called a foul, what more did you want? There is no way a ref is going to call an intentional foul in favor of the road team in a tied game with 1.5seconds left. Also, because of where the ref who made the call was positioned, he was seeing Obekpa going up and then his man on his back. There is a good chance that he didn't even see the push in the back. The only ref that could have seen it was the one out on the perimeter, and he certainly wasn't going to overturn his buddy.

Not that it matters but I commented on the intentional foul in another thread. Your point is very well taken but the "modern" obsession of "getting it right" just bugs me. We can let the clock run au natural for 39:50 and then spend 45 minutes figuring out if there are 1.2 seconds or .8 and ignore an obvious push in the back done intentionally. I agree they won't call it so my comment (at least) was more directed to the approach of managing games in the first place. Me, I hate "getting it right", instant replay, and the DH. Give me "old style" and I'll live with human error. I mean, can we go back and call Dallas Comegys for crossing the foul line too early and maybe win a national championship? Can we reverse an absolutely horrible call against Billy Singleton vs. Duke and get the historic upset we earned? I'm old school and seeing every good game slowed to maple sap running speed in the last minute while 4 guys huddle over a monitor boils my skin more than watching Phil Greene do dribbling laps around the perimeter. BTW, I know there is no going back, we are a short time away from having machines call balls and strikes and foul balls and while they may be more accurate, I don't think that will inprove the game. I mean look at all the great arguments there wouldn't have been if a machine had called the Jackie Robinson steal of home?

 

[beast of the east]

Awesome pass, fantastic win! These guys now know how to close under pressure. Bring on Georgetown!

It's funny because it isn't 100% consensus, but a lot of coaches love the bounce pass, because to get it by defenders it's naturally a lot lower. It also bounces up to the recipient making it easy to catch and shoot. Some coaches like an aerial pass, the old fashioned chest pass, because it gets there faster. Obviously the circumstance should rule. In this case, the bounce pass was perfectly executed.

Teammates are going to begin to realize that if they cut and get open, then Rysheed will find them. That, along with his exuberance, was the change the Magic Johnson brought to the Lakers. If you are open, if you cut, you'd better be ready for a pass, because he will find you.

BTW that should have been an intentional foul. There was no play on the ball just an intentional shove on the back.

From wiki (not the best source)

In basketball, a flagrant foul is a serious personal foul. A foul is considered flagrant when it involves excessive or violent contact which could injure the fouled player. It is distinct from an intentional foul, which is a tactic permitted within the game as long as the foul is not considered flagrant.

obviously intentional fouls are committed all the time to extend games but when a guy is going up for a layup or dunk and is shoved in the back that is different then fouling a guy in the backcourt and Obepka did take a pretty good fall.

According to the NCAA rule book, a Flagrant 1 foul occurs when a player "swings an elbow and makes non-excessive contact with an opponent above the shoulders."

so for future reference you don't need to make a play on the ball when a guy is going up for a dunk? A push in the back is fine?

Just let it go! We won the game. People on this board will find a reason to complain about anything!! They called a foul, what more did you want? There is no way a ref is going to call an intentional foul in favor of the road team in a tied game with 1.5seconds left. Also, because of where the ref who made the call was positioned, he was seeing Obekpa going up and then his man on his back. There is a good chance that he didn't even see the push in the back. The only ref that could have seen it was the one out on the perimeter, and he certainly wasn't going to overturn his buddy.

Not that it matters but I commented on the intentional foul in another thread. Your point is very well taken but the "modern" obsession of "getting it right" just bugs me. We can let the clock run au natural for 39:50 and then spend 45 minutes figuring out if there are 1.2 seconds or .8 and ignore an obvious push in the back done intentionally. I agree they won't call it so my comment (at least) was more directed to the approach of managing games in the first place. Me, I hate "getting it right", instant replay, and the DH. Give me "old style" and I'll live with human error. I mean, can we go back and call Dallas Comegys for crossing the foul line too early and maybe win a national championship? Can we reverse an absolutely horrible call against Billy Singleton vs. Duke and get the historic upset we earned? I'm old school and seeing every good game slowed to maple sap running speed in the last minute while 4 guys huddle over a monitor boils my skin more than watching Phil Greene do dribbling laps around the perimeter. BTW, I know there is no going back, we are a short time away from having machines call balls and strikes and foul balls and while they may be more accurate, I don't think that will inprove the game. I mean look at all the great arguments there wouldn't have been if a machine had called the Jackie Robinson steal of home?

 

[beast of the east]

Awesome pass, fantastic win! These guys now know how to close under pressure. Bring on Georgetown!

It's funny because it isn't 100% consensus, but a lot of coaches love the bounce pass, because to get it by defenders it's naturally a lot lower. It also bounces up to the recipient making it easy to catch and shoot. Some coaches like an aerial pass, the old fashioned chest pass, because it gets there faster. Obviously the circumstance should rule. In this case, the bounce pass was perfectly executed.

Teammates are going to begin to realize that if they cut and get open, then Rysheed will find them. That, along with his exuberance, was the change the Magic Johnson brought to the Lakers. If you are open, if you cut, you'd better be ready for a pass, because he will find you.

BTW that should have been an intentional foul. There was no play on the ball just an intentional shove on the back.

From wiki (not the best source)

In basketball, a flagrant foul is a serious personal foul. A foul is considered flagrant when it involves excessive or violent contact which could injure the fouled player. It is distinct from an intentional foul, which is a tactic permitted within the game as long as the foul is not considered flagrant.

obviously intentional fouls are committed all the time to extend games but when a guy is going up for a layup or dunk and is shoved in the back that is different then fouling a guy in the backcourt and Obepka did take a pretty good fall.

According to the NCAA rule book, a Flagrant 1 foul occurs when a player "swings an elbow and makes non-excessive contact with an opponent above the shoulders."

so for future reference you don't need to make a play on the ball when a guy is going up for a dunk? A push in the back is fine?

Just let it go! We won the game. People on this board will find a reason to complain about anything!! They called a foul, what more did you want? There is no way a ref is going to call an intentional foul in favor of the road team in a tied game with 1.5seconds left. Also, because of where the ref who made the call was positioned, he was seeing Obekpa going up and then his man on his back. There is a good chance that he didn't even see the push in the back. The only ref that could have seen it was the one out on the perimeter, and he certainly wasn't going to overturn his buddy.

Not that it matters but I commented on the intentional foul in another thread. Your point is very well taken but the "modern" obsession of "getting it right" just bugs me. We can let the clock run au natural for 39:50 and then spend 45 minutes figuring out if there are 1.2 seconds or .8 and ignore an obvious push in the back done intentionally. I agree they won't call it so my comment (at least) was more directed to the approach of managing games in the first place. Me, I hate "getting it right", instant replay, and the DH. Give me "old style" and I'll live with human error. I mean, can we go back and call Dallas Comegys for crossing the foul line too early and maybe win a national championship? Can we reverse an absolutely horrible call against Billy Singleton vs. Duke and get the historic upset we earned? I'm old school and seeing every good game slowed to maple sap running speed in the last minute while 4 guys huddle over a monitor boils my skin more than watching Phil Greene do dribbling laps around the perimeter. BTW, I know there is no going back, we are a short time away from having machines call balls and strikes and foul balls and while they may be more accurate, I don't think that will inprove the game. I mean look at all the great arguments there wouldn't have been if a machine had called the Jackie Robinson steal of home?

It's funny, because it took advances in technology more than 60 years to show that Robinson was clearly out, as Berra claimed all along.

When Berra was a rookie, he was a poor defensive catcher. The Dodgers ran amok on the bases in the 47 Series, That first season, he threw out only 36% of runners. He then worked with the great Bill Dickey, and by 1950 threw out 58% of runners, 49% for his entire career. In every season as a regular, Berra placed in the MVP voting, winning three times. Along with his 358 career homers, he struck out only 414 times. Any conversation of the top ten Yankees of all time has to include Berra, and possibly in the top 5. For those interested, there is a great biography by Alan Barra worth reading.

For those of us who count people or teams out early, Berra was sent home from a St. Louis Cardinals tryout, and was told he wasn't big league material. They instead signed his best buddy, Joe Garagiola. The Yankees then took a chance on Berra, and the rest, as Stengel would say, is history.