NY YANKEES - 2021
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Moose
Well-known member
Couple things have come to light now as the season is winding down.
The 2 best position players are Judge and Stanton. I was critical of Judge in the past but 1. he's stayed healthy and 2. he's become clutch. With only 1 more year on his contract interesting to see how they approach. He must be re-signed but then as for Stanton he became the Stanton we all expected once he started playing the field. You going to invest quite a bit of money in two very BIG corner OF's. But has to be done.
Torres- Have to cut losses this off-season. He's still young and cost controlled to get another team thinking they can solve him. With a farm system full of MI prospects like Volpe and Peraza personally I would go cheaper at SS for another year, not go after the big free agent SS and trade Gleyber for help elsewhere.
Green- This should be surprising. He was lights out for 2 years. Then was horrible. Then was ehh in a 60 game season and this year he was good to start and the wheels have come off. Closers are closer and last for a long time in their roles especially the elite. Bullpen arms are a dime a dozen and you get 2, 3, maybe 4 good to great years and then they flame out. Maybe he re-invents himself with a different arm angle in 4 years and re-appears down the line but right now he's getting added to the list of Scott Proctor, Tanyon Sturtze, and other Yankee bullpen arms who were indispensable for a time then trash.
One last thing. I have a co worker who's son is a pitcher in the minors for another big league club. They are building their pitchers to pitch 4-5 innings. Thats the future of the game. Get more pitchers who can blow thru a lineup once as unhittable maybe even twice thru and then turn it over to another multi inning arm.
The 2 best position players are Judge and Stanton. I was critical of Judge in the past but 1. he's stayed healthy and 2. he's become clutch. With only 1 more year on his contract interesting to see how they approach. He must be re-signed but then as for Stanton he became the Stanton we all expected once he started playing the field. You going to invest quite a bit of money in two very BIG corner OF's. But has to be done.
Torres- Have to cut losses this off-season. He's still young and cost controlled to get another team thinking they can solve him. With a farm system full of MI prospects like Volpe and Peraza personally I would go cheaper at SS for another year, not go after the big free agent SS and trade Gleyber for help elsewhere.
Green- This should be surprising. He was lights out for 2 years. Then was horrible. Then was ehh in a 60 game season and this year he was good to start and the wheels have come off. Closers are closer and last for a long time in their roles especially the elite. Bullpen arms are a dime a dozen and you get 2, 3, maybe 4 good to great years and then they flame out. Maybe he re-invents himself with a different arm angle in 4 years and re-appears down the line but right now he's getting added to the list of Scott Proctor, Tanyon Sturtze, and other Yankee bullpen arms who were indispensable for a time then trash.
One last thing. I have a co worker who's son is a pitcher in the minors for another big league club. They are building their pitchers to pitch 4-5 innings. Thats the future of the game. Get more pitchers who can blow thru a lineup once as unhittable maybe even twice thru and then turn it over to another multi inning arm.
Tonight would have been a DEVASTATING loss. Cannot afford anything less than a sweep in Baltimore. Also this 9 game stretch against Baltimore, Minnesota and Texas they cannot do any WORSE then 7-2 on this stretch. 8-1 would be better.
Then it gets real with Boston/Toronto/Tampa. I think Toronto is going to get in. They are hot as a pistol and their lineup is killing it. I think the Yankees will have to go 5-4 over that last 9, combined with 7-2 or 8-1 that gets them to 92 or 93 wins which should secure one of the 2 Wild Cards.
Then it gets real with Boston/Toronto/Tampa. I think Toronto is going to get in. They are hot as a pistol and their lineup is killing it. I think the Yankees will have to go 5-4 over that last 9, combined with 7-2 or 8-1 that gets them to 92 or 93 wins which should secure one of the 2 Wild Cards.
Moose
Well-known member
Forgot to add. After coming out hot not sure Rizzo needs to be signed long term to come back and Gallo might still have some value as a flip. I'm not a Voit fan per se and would rather get some LH bats in here as there should be some LH bats on the trade market this offseason. J. Ramirez, K. Marte, maybe even Matt Olson.
I hope Gio rebounds but he seems to be a walking medical chart and this last few knocks have really effected him even coming back. With locking up Judge, Stanton and DJ all long term and still having Hicks long term creativity amongst the rest will be key.
Robbie Ray is going to make A TON of money as a free agent finishing 1st or 2nd for AL Cy Young.
I hope Gio rebounds but he seems to be a walking medical chart and this last few knocks have really effected him even coming back. With locking up Judge, Stanton and DJ all long term and still having Hicks long term creativity amongst the rest will be key.
Robbie Ray is going to make A TON of money as a free agent finishing 1st or 2nd for AL Cy Young.
Good post. Some interesting points.Moose post=439238 said:
Couple of comments:
1) Its interesting that you admit being wrong about moving Judge out of here instead of resigning him, yet seem willing to make the same mistake with an even younger, 24 year old Gleyber Torres.
Yes, we have a lot of high end prospects in the middle infield. None of them will likely be starting in the Bronx next year. I'm not against moving Torres in the right trade, but I think its wrong to make it a priority to move him for the sake of moving him. He's shown he isn't a SS at this level. But the last full season he played at 2nd he hit 38 hr. In his first two seasons playing 2b he hit 62 HR. Guys like that don't grow on trees, and this one hasn't even hit his prime years yet.
2) Agreed. Short term solution at SS this offseason to allow for Volpe or Peraza to grow into the SS role in 2023. I'd move him to 2b and DJ to 3rd. Then trade Urshela. Wade as a reserve, and a veteran SS for a year or two and then you can worry about sorting the Peraza/Volpe logjam.
3) Green isn't a long term fit in the back of the bullpen. Never has been. He's a 1 pitch pitcher and that pitch is about velocity, not movement like Rivera's cutter. There's a role for him in the pen and its in that 6th/7th inning area 2-3 times a week. The pen definitely needs an overhaul. Even if its an influx of guys from the system like Gil, Ridings, Medina, Etc. Need to find a new closer. Not sure where that's coming from.
Moose
Well-known member
SJUFAN2 post=439253 said:
I'm always willing to admit I'm wrong /media/kunena/emoticons/wink.png
Judge's health was the biggest factor. That could blow up in my face and this year could be the outlier. But can't deny he's clutch as well.
Difference with Torres is Judge plays the game the right way. He's heady. Torres is anything but. And yes this is after his bonehead move last night throwing to the wrong base. I don't think where he plays positionally is going to impact his HR's. They Yankees have the luxury as a deep pocketed and good farm system team to use an asset like him to try and better themselves elsewhere. I'm not Cashman maybe he holds onto Torres until you pry him from his hands like has with Gary. Just because he's 24 you would think he's entering his prime but sometimes players peak early and then dwindle off into forgotten. Change of scenery trades are good for both teams a lot. I personally would be willing to roll those dice if it betters me elsewhere.
Didn't want to drag out with the quote function so here my thoughts on what has bee brought up recently:
Torres - didn't want to trade him originally but beginning to come around to Moose's thinking. He is not normally a clueless player (mad dash earlier this season scoring from first on an infield hit when no one covered 3rd and kept going because the catcher was caught out of position trying to cover 3rd) but his head is all screwed up trying to do to much to make up for his back to back bad seasons. Going elsewhere and playing second without trying to hit everything out of the park might bring him back to the player he was (adjusting his swing with two strikes, going the opposite way, playing solid defense). Problem, don't know if he has much trade value right now.
Rizzo - as a lefthanded mid season pick-up, thought it was a good move but was not leaning to resigning him and that has not changed. Good clubhouse guy, outstanding fielder, but bat is not what it was nor something you tie yourself to.
Gallo - Not a fan, felt offensively he was a left handed Sanchez but we needed lefty power bats and he was available. No problem when him defensively, wish he was more of a CF so Judge or Stanton can play LF and the other RF. Stanton needs to play the field more as it seems to help him offensively
Voit - Should have found a way to play him more when he was hot. Not a good 1B and don't know if he is our long-term shortstop
Future Short Stop - Agree with Moose, go low on a good fielder with range to hold the position until Peraza or Volpe are ready. Spend big money elsewhere
Starting Pitching - Stop going for pitchers coming off injuries and look for some who are durable and win.
Relief Pitching - See Starting Pitching and add hard thrower.
Torres - didn't want to trade him originally but beginning to come around to Moose's thinking. He is not normally a clueless player (mad dash earlier this season scoring from first on an infield hit when no one covered 3rd and kept going because the catcher was caught out of position trying to cover 3rd) but his head is all screwed up trying to do to much to make up for his back to back bad seasons. Going elsewhere and playing second without trying to hit everything out of the park might bring him back to the player he was (adjusting his swing with two strikes, going the opposite way, playing solid defense). Problem, don't know if he has much trade value right now.
Rizzo - as a lefthanded mid season pick-up, thought it was a good move but was not leaning to resigning him and that has not changed. Good clubhouse guy, outstanding fielder, but bat is not what it was nor something you tie yourself to.
Gallo - Not a fan, felt offensively he was a left handed Sanchez but we needed lefty power bats and he was available. No problem when him defensively, wish he was more of a CF so Judge or Stanton can play LF and the other RF. Stanton needs to play the field more as it seems to help him offensively
Voit - Should have found a way to play him more when he was hot. Not a good 1B and don't know if he is our long-term shortstop
Future Short Stop - Agree with Moose, go low on a good fielder with range to hold the position until Peraza or Volpe are ready. Spend big money elsewhere
Starting Pitching - Stop going for pitchers coming off injuries and look for some who are durable and win.
Relief Pitching - See Starting Pitching and add hard thrower.
The two most demanding position on the field are C and SS. Few guys are able to separate their defensive struggles from their offensive production completely, let alone for an entire season. At those positions its even harder. I don't think its a coincidence that the 1.5 seasons where he was struggling at SS were his worst offensive seasons and that the two where he could play 2b with confidence were his best offensive seasons. Hard to get out of a rut when your confidence is shot.Moose post=439261 said:
I agree that there is too much Robbie Cano in his game and not enough Derek Jeter. But that can be said about a TON of very good players in this league.
I'd play him at 2b next year and DJ at 3rd. If it doesn't work, you can move on to Volpe & Peraza at 2b/SS for 2023.
His trade value isn't going to be very high now and there would be little difference if he struggles again next year. Better to keep him and try to fix him.
I'd take a Yankee era Robinson Cano at 2b any day of the week and twice on Sundays. There weren't many (if any) better than him then or now (Altuve).SJUFAN2 post=439271 said:
This past winter, I was all for bringing in a shortstop, moving Gleyber back to second, DJ to first, leaving Urshela at 3rd and trading how on Voit for some pitching or a real good shortstop.
Second Mets fan question. Is there a way to balance a trade of McNeil to Yanks for Torres to Mets. Mets need a right handed line drive hitter and a good McNeil is the left handed version of that and a true second baseman? I don't think Mets spend for Baez and don't know Cano contract status.
You can't score more than 2 runs in 10 innings against that God awful team. And again that is after barely scoring 4 the night before. 6 games in September against the Orioles and you lose 3 of them and two of the 3 wins required extra innings or a late rally.
Can't see them making it.
Can't see them making it.
