Nov 8, 2016 - The lesser of two evils?
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ErickTheRed
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No, actually I like the fact that he's for securing our borders, growing our economy the right way. The dems have been hijacked by the losers on the far left, I would take Tim Ryan joe manchin or jim Webb over any of the complete hypocrites on the far left, and they are all dems. But I have a feeling many debating these issues even know who they are.
The hypocrites can be found on both sides. Everyone is in favor or secure borders and growing the economy. We differ in methods.
Regarding the economy, I suggest middle and working class America watches Trump closely. My guess is that his policies will quickly and directly benefit corporate and wealthy individuals; and the rest will be told to be patient as jobs and wage increase will follow. This approach, alone, has never shown tangible evidence of success.
beast of the east
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Trump is not a great orator and says a lot of dumb things fir certain. But if he had said word for word what Clinton and Obama said the left would be all over him.
You take the left's opposition to Trump at face value - responding to policy, statements, etc. But the leadership is all about re-gaining power and could not really care less about the issues.
By the same token Republican politicians opposed Trump because they feared being swept out of office in a Hillary landslide and no other real reason
Beastie et al, my suspicions are that much of what is said to offend or rile is in fact said to distract. We were told forty years ago to "follow the money". Our current President seems intent on discharging endless verbal decoys to keep folks away from where he is truly vulnerable to impeachment under the Constitution, the emoluments clause. Also, one gets the sense that as a businessman Trump is used to keeping score in terms of bottom line numbers and unless he grows in to the office he will find that approach insufficient for the Presidency.
beast of the east
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I really enjoy reading the commentary in this thread - yours, johnnyfan's, and mjmaher's and others. Thank you for all the food for thought.
I'm less concerned about this temporary ban on immigration than the flip side - what thanks did Germany get for their policy except for some terrorist attacks? I am voncerned about poor execution and not telying on some seasoned politicians - like Ryan or Pence - who may have warned him to move more cautiously and not recklessly.
I think for the time being we are hopelessly divided.
Trump is no more racist than Obama was for deliberately playing the race card again and again in incidents at Harvard, Trayvon Martin, Ferguson, and in refusing to speak out strongly against heinous attacks on innocent cops that occurred as a result of his dangerous rhetoric. Unlike every former in my lifetime at least, he refuses to step back into civilian life and let the President do his job - in effect becoming an anarchist in the process.
The court's decision to strike down the temporary restrictions on immigration may in fact be unconstitutional and believe those judges know that, but the real purpose is to undermine the power of the Presidency.
I honestly must have missed something. What has President Obama done to give you the impression that he is refusing to step back into civilian life? As far as I know, he has been on vacation and I only know that because Trump tweeted that the vacation is costing tax payers too much in security.
Well, here's the deal; the man has been in office for two weeks and does not even have his cabinet in place due to the lefts obstruction which is really all they have left to do. So if you really want to be objective give him a chance before judging him, especially when all you have to offer are the MSM lies.
Actually, as I have said before, I gave him (and all candidates) a chance. I have listened and observed Donald Trump for the past 18 months. His ugly rhetoric, non-compliance with fiscal disclosure norms, and his historically divisive cabinet picks were enough for me. The fact that his approach to foreign policy will likely create more divisiveness abroad is just another reason.
Regarding the MSM (including FOX), let's agree that we are all aware of the biased, agenda-driven reporting.
Spocky Ramone
Well-known member
Thanks for backing me up!
http://redmen.com/forum/37-players-...ump-s-acceptance-speech.html?start=117#223658
beast of the east
Active member
Well, for one, Obama made a public statement that he was "heartened" days of protests following the inauguration of Trump. I feel former Presidents should understand how difficult the job is, and be quiet unless conferred upon by the current President, and even that should be done in private
beast of the east
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Romney disclosed his taxes, and then the left nitpicked about his tax rate (all legal since his income was all long term capital gains and he had initially paid taxes at the ordinary tax rate while he was employed). They also ignored that he declined to take a deduction on his tax deductible contribution to his charitable foundation. They demonized him for his wealth, and there wasn't an iota of wrongdoing of manipulation of the tax code in his returns. So, Trump smartly withheld release of his returns, just as Obama had curiously sealed his academic records that may have shown he was not the intellectual student he was portrayed as.
Romney did, unrightfully, come under scrutiny. Personally, I have no problem with someone accessing every legal avenue to minimize their tax rate. I do that now, and would expect to retain that right if I entered the arena of public office. I do also agree that, should he disclose his returns, Trump's wealth and tax savvy would be used against him. However, this is not new.
I am not at all interested in nitpicking about tax rate, loop holes or charitable deductions. If it's legal, have at it! I am interested in Trump's income sources. I am afraid there could be massive conflicts of interest that may affect foreign policy (i.e. Russia).
beast of the east
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I really enjoy the fairness with which you can discuss issues.
Along with all of the divisiveness, it's really hard for all of us to maintain any level of objectivity to public discourse. You are able to maintain objectivity, and it makes the dialogue easier.
I think half these people protesting against Trump don't know why they are protesting. AshlyJudd sounded like the men in the white coats should take her away. I'm taking a wait and see approach. Too early to formulate an opinion one way or another. IMO. I also believe you can't take Trump at face value. He is a negotiator, He'll ask for he sky and settle for less.
beast of the east
Active member
Ashley Judd sounded like she was auditioning for a role Psycho meets Gone with the Wind.
There's not a politician alive who we can take at face value. Not one. They all bend like the wind depending on what and who will get them votes. The only difference between Trump and the rest of the clowns is that Trump doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut, or how to play the game. The other problem is that Trump is following arguably the greatest orator of any President this country has ever seen. I rarely liked what he said, but I almost always liked how he said it.
Agreed: I loved that four score and seven years ago bit he did. And "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed, by their Creator, with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness" was pretty good too, not on a par with "the police acted stupidly" or "Trayvon could have been my son" or even "Uh, I’ve now been in fifty … ss-seven? states. I think" but stirring nonetheless.
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