Spocky Ramone
Well-known member
Nonsense. Hillary said she has both a public and private position on wall street reform. I believe her 100%
Nov 8, 2016 - The lesser of two evils?
- Thread starter TX Redman
- Start date
- Status
Nonsense. Hillary said she has both a public and private position on wall street reform. I believe her 100%
Spocky Ramone
Well-known member
I felt like he was channeling Lincoln when he said he trying to ascertain "whose ass to kick"
Spocky Ramone
Well-known member
He couldn't cut it at Toastmasters
beast of the east
Active member
The poem was written by a 17 year old girl in the south. Read the words, regardless of the source, they are absurdly offensive. Not quite "I've thought about bombing the white house", which could have been said by Madonna but written by Bill Ayres.
beast of the east
Active member
Take away the teleprompter, and .....
What I find humorous, and I know this is the case, is that often when Obama pauses in the middle of a sentence for a few seconds, he had no idea of what he is going to say when he started speaking. But man that guy can read a line.
Chris Rock said this about Colin Powell, but the sentiment is the same:
speaking of celebrities I thought Gaga was going to pull some political celebrity BS stunt last night and instead I came away beyond impressed and thought that was one of my 2 favorite half time performances ever especially the beginning of it
Spocky Ramone
Well-known member
Right after Super Bowl XXXVIII
I am actually surprised that I agree with much that is discussed, and wanted to give an additional perspective since a friend posted this article in facebook, and so I felt it was my duty to respond to it .. the link to the article is here:
How are you my brother, and thanks for posting this interesting article, one which I disagree with, and I will explain in detail why, because you are a well learned and open-minded person. So to start off, first, both you and I being brought up Muslim understand the lineage Islam draws up through Christianity to Judaism to Abraham in which Islam is the culmination of the message of God but we embrace all of it as part of our heritage. Second, both you and I know that there is a massive crisis in Islam, where Wahhabism has largely hijacked and perverted the Islamic narrative to something unrecognizable. Third, similarly Christianity is in a massive crisis as well in the US, the left/liberals have largely hijacked and perverted its narrative, and now when the term Christian is used it connotes white supremacy, racism, misogyny and xenophobia. But because true Islam stands for religious tolerance, we “resist” whenever any religion (especially our heritage) is being undermined. Fourth, since the Guardian newspaper is a bastion of left/liberals, which wants to form opinions instead of triggering free thought, I take anything they say with a huge pinch of salt. This is because like Christianity, Steve Bannon is also being smeared. One question is what does he mean by Judeo-Christian values (in fairness he should use Abrahamic religious values to better include true Muslims), and you can trace this back to the Declaration of Independence of the US which starts by saying:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator (note that the term Jehovah, Allah, God is not used) with certain unalienable rights that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness..."
The declaration of independence, the constitution, and the bill of rights (not to mention Islamic Jurisprudence – we are all equal in the eyes of Allah) are based on something called natural law, which is a philosophy that certain rights are inherent by virtue of human nature and can be understood universally through human reason.
That’s why Eisenhower in one of his addresses says ‘“all men are endowed by their Creator". In other words, our form of government has no sense unless it is founded in a deeply felt religious faith, and I don't care what it is. With us of course it is the Judeo-Christian concept, but it must be a religion with all men [and women] created equal."
In the US it is vital to remember that the founding fathers separated church from state, but they did not separate the creator from state; they acknowledged that the creator as the source of rights, and, in fact, they were careful to place Biblical (Judeo-Christian) morality directly into the founding documents and laws, and into the values and culture precisely to help prevent a future of totalitarian or tyrannical rule in the US. The combination of keeping Judeo-Christian religious morality in the state, as opposed to the church itself, and setting up the laws based on reason and common sense has contributed to what is known as "American exceptionalism".
So basically what the history tells us is that the founding fathers were religious in a new way - Judeo-Christian - and they were the liberals of their day by reasoning that political and human rights come from a power higher than human government; but they were conservative to Judeo-Christian morality. There was and still is a connection between God and Liberty, but what is ironic is that the conservatives are now the champion of this most liberal founding principle; and further irony is that most conservatives are largely unaware of their connection with the liberal founding ideas.
Overall what Bannon (and most true Muslims) are asking - in the age of crony capitalism led inequality, terror, stripping of liberties, growing intolerance (to women, other religions in Wahhabism, and to conservative thought, Christianity in the West) – is what happened to our values of human decency. Why has massive, big government (that entrenched crony capitalism led immoral inequality undermining liberties) displaced our values of being equal in the eyes of our creator, etc.??? These religious divides aren’t natural or an accident so while us Muslims are trying to recapture our true narrative, Bannon has more narratives to confront … Sorry for the long post, but since we are living in an Orwellian-like Dystopia, propaganda is the hardest pill to swallow.
How are you my brother, and thanks for posting this interesting article, one which I disagree with, and I will explain in detail why, because you are a well learned and open-minded person. So to start off, first, both you and I being brought up Muslim understand the lineage Islam draws up through Christianity to Judaism to Abraham in which Islam is the culmination of the message of God but we embrace all of it as part of our heritage. Second, both you and I know that there is a massive crisis in Islam, where Wahhabism has largely hijacked and perverted the Islamic narrative to something unrecognizable. Third, similarly Christianity is in a massive crisis as well in the US, the left/liberals have largely hijacked and perverted its narrative, and now when the term Christian is used it connotes white supremacy, racism, misogyny and xenophobia. But because true Islam stands for religious tolerance, we “resist” whenever any religion (especially our heritage) is being undermined. Fourth, since the Guardian newspaper is a bastion of left/liberals, which wants to form opinions instead of triggering free thought, I take anything they say with a huge pinch of salt. This is because like Christianity, Steve Bannon is also being smeared. One question is what does he mean by Judeo-Christian values (in fairness he should use Abrahamic religious values to better include true Muslims), and you can trace this back to the Declaration of Independence of the US which starts by saying:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator (note that the term Jehovah, Allah, God is not used) with certain unalienable rights that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness..."
The declaration of independence, the constitution, and the bill of rights (not to mention Islamic Jurisprudence – we are all equal in the eyes of Allah) are based on something called natural law, which is a philosophy that certain rights are inherent by virtue of human nature and can be understood universally through human reason.
That’s why Eisenhower in one of his addresses says ‘“all men are endowed by their Creator". In other words, our form of government has no sense unless it is founded in a deeply felt religious faith, and I don't care what it is. With us of course it is the Judeo-Christian concept, but it must be a religion with all men [and women] created equal."
In the US it is vital to remember that the founding fathers separated church from state, but they did not separate the creator from state; they acknowledged that the creator as the source of rights, and, in fact, they were careful to place Biblical (Judeo-Christian) morality directly into the founding documents and laws, and into the values and culture precisely to help prevent a future of totalitarian or tyrannical rule in the US. The combination of keeping Judeo-Christian religious morality in the state, as opposed to the church itself, and setting up the laws based on reason and common sense has contributed to what is known as "American exceptionalism".
So basically what the history tells us is that the founding fathers were religious in a new way - Judeo-Christian - and they were the liberals of their day by reasoning that political and human rights come from a power higher than human government; but they were conservative to Judeo-Christian morality. There was and still is a connection between God and Liberty, but what is ironic is that the conservatives are now the champion of this most liberal founding principle; and further irony is that most conservatives are largely unaware of their connection with the liberal founding ideas.
Overall what Bannon (and most true Muslims) are asking - in the age of crony capitalism led inequality, terror, stripping of liberties, growing intolerance (to women, other religions in Wahhabism, and to conservative thought, Christianity in the West) – is what happened to our values of human decency. Why has massive, big government (that entrenched crony capitalism led immoral inequality undermining liberties) displaced our values of being equal in the eyes of our creator, etc.??? These religious divides aren’t natural or an accident so while us Muslims are trying to recapture our true narrative, Bannon has more narratives to confront … Sorry for the long post, but since we are living in an Orwellian-like Dystopia, propaganda is the hardest pill to swallow.
beast of the east
Active member
I am actually surprised that I agree with much that is discussed, and wanted to give an additional perspective since a friend posted this article in facebook, and so I felt it was my duty to respond to it .. the link to the article is here:
How are you my brother, and thanks for posting this interesting article, one which I disagree with, and I will explain in detail why, because you are a well learned and open-minded person. So to start off, first, both you and I being brought up Muslim understand the lineage Islam draws up through Christianity to Judaism to Abraham in which Islam is the culmination of the message of God but we embrace all of it as part of our heritage. Second, both you and I know that there is a massive crisis in Islam, where Wahhabism has largely hijacked and perverted the Islamic narrative to something unrecognizable. Third, similarly Christianity is in a massive crisis as well in the US, the left/liberals have largely hijacked and perverted its narrative, and now when the term Christian is used it connotes white supremacy, racism, misogyny and xenophobia. But because true Islam stands for religious tolerance, we “resist” whenever any religion (especially our heritage) is being undermined. Fourth, since the Guardian newspaper is a bastion of left/liberals, which wants to form opinions instead of triggering free thought, I take anything they say with a huge pinch of salt. This is because like Christianity, Steve Bannon is also being smeared. One question is what does he mean by Judeo-Christian values (in fairness he should use Abrahamic religious values to better include true Muslims), and you can trace this back to the Declaration of Independence of the US which starts by saying:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator (note that the term Jehovah, Allah, God is not used) with certain unalienable rights that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness..."
The declaration of independence, the constitution, and the bill of rights (not to mention Islamic Jurisprudence – we are all equal in the eyes of Allah) are based on something called natural law, which is a philosophy that certain rights are inherent by virtue of human nature and can be understood universally through human reason.
That’s why Eisenhower in one of his addresses says ‘“all men are endowed by their Creator". In other words, our form of government has no sense unless it is founded in a deeply felt religious faith, and I don't care what it is. With us of course it is the Judeo-Christian concept, but it must be a religion with all men [and women] created equal."
In the US it is vital to remember that the founding fathers separated church from state, but they did not separate the creator from state; they acknowledged that the creator as the source of rights, and, in fact, they were careful to place Biblical (Judeo-Christian) morality directly into the founding documents and laws, and into the values and culture precisely to help prevent a future of totalitarian or tyrannical rule in the US. The combination of keeping Judeo-Christian religious morality in the state, as opposed to the church itself, and setting up the laws based on reason and common sense has contributed to what is known as "American exceptionalism".
So basically what the history tells us is that the founding fathers were religious in a new way - Judeo-Christian - and they were the liberals of their day by reasoning that political and human rights come from a power higher than human government; but they were conservative to Judeo-Christian morality. There was and still is a connection between God and Liberty, but what is ironic is that the conservatives are now the champion of this most liberal founding principle; and further irony is that most conservatives are largely unaware of their connection with the liberal founding ideas.
Overall what Bannon (and most true Muslims) are asking - in the age of crony capitalism led inequality, terror, stripping of liberties, growing intolerance (to women, other religions in Wahhabism, and to conservative thought, Christianity in the West) – is what happened to our values of human decency. Why has massive, big government (that entrenched crony capitalism led immoral inequality undermining liberties) displaced our values of being equal in the eyes of our creator, etc.??? These religious divides aren’t natural or an accident so while us Muslims are trying to recapture our true narrative, Bannon has more narratives to confront … Sorry for the long post, but since we are living in an Orwellian-like Dystopia, propaganda is the hardest pill to swallow.
Extremely well written. Thanks for sharing it.
I am actually surprised that I agree with much that is discussed, and wanted to give an additional perspective since a friend posted this article in facebook, and so I felt it was my duty to respond to it .. the link to the article is here:
How are you my brother, and thanks for posting this interesting article, one which I disagree with, and I will explain in detail why, because you are a well learned and open-minded person. So to start off, first, both you and I being brought up Muslim understand the lineage Islam draws up through Christianity to Judaism to Abraham in which Islam is the culmination of the message of God but we embrace all of it as part of our heritage. Second, both you and I know that there is a massive crisis in Islam, where Wahhabism has largely hijacked and perverted the Islamic narrative to something unrecognizable. Third, similarly Christianity is in a massive crisis as well in the US, the left/liberals have largely hijacked and perverted its narrative, and now when the term Christian is used it connotes white supremacy, racism, misogyny and xenophobia. But because true Islam stands for religious tolerance, we “resist” whenever any religion (especially our heritage) is being undermined. Fourth, since the Guardian newspaper is a bastion of left/liberals, which wants to form opinions instead of triggering free thought, I take anything they say with a huge pinch of salt. This is because like Christianity, Steve Bannon is also being smeared. One question is what does he mean by Judeo-Christian values (in fairness he should use Abrahamic religious values to better include true Muslims), and you can trace this back to the Declaration of Independence of the US which starts by saying:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator (note that the term Jehovah, Allah, God is not used) with certain unalienable rights that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness..."
The declaration of independence, the constitution, and the bill of rights (not to mention Islamic Jurisprudence – we are all equal in the eyes of Allah) are based on something called natural law, which is a philosophy that certain rights are inherent by virtue of human nature and can be understood universally through human reason.
That’s why Eisenhower in one of his addresses says ‘“all men are endowed by their Creator". In other words, our form of government has no sense unless it is founded in a deeply felt religious faith, and I don't care what it is. With us of course it is the Judeo-Christian concept, but it must be a religion with all men [and women] created equal."
In the US it is vital to remember that the founding fathers separated church from state, but they did not separate the creator from state; they acknowledged that the creator as the source of rights, and, in fact, they were careful to place Biblical (Judeo-Christian) morality directly into the founding documents and laws, and into the values and culture precisely to help prevent a future of totalitarian or tyrannical rule in the US. The combination of keeping Judeo-Christian religious morality in the state, as opposed to the church itself, and setting up the laws based on reason and common sense has contributed to what is known as "American exceptionalism".
So basically what the history tells us is that the founding fathers were religious in a new way - Judeo-Christian - and they were the liberals of their day by reasoning that political and human rights come from a power higher than human government; but they were conservative to Judeo-Christian morality. There was and still is a connection between God and Liberty, but what is ironic is that the conservatives are now the champion of this most liberal founding principle; and further irony is that most conservatives are largely unaware of their connection with the liberal founding ideas.
Overall what Bannon (and most true Muslims) are asking - in the age of crony capitalism led inequality, terror, stripping of liberties, growing intolerance (to women, other religions in Wahhabism, and to conservative thought, Christianity in the West) – is what happened to our values of human decency. Why has massive, big government (that entrenched crony capitalism led immoral inequality undermining liberties) displaced our values of being equal in the eyes of our creator, etc.??? These religious divides aren’t natural or an accident so while us Muslims are trying to recapture our true narrative, Bannon has more narratives to confront … Sorry for the long post, but since we are living in an Orwellian-like Dystopia, propaganda is the hardest pill to swallow.
Extremely well written. Thanks for sharing it.
Thank you as well ... the space for free thought and liberty is literally almost snuffed out ... and I cannot believe how subtly and steadily Christianity became demonized, and (sickening, uninformed) love for us Muslims grew. Neither religion is monolith but has been propagandized into their respective pigeon holes, and battle lines are drawn, dividing both, because of fascist views ...
beast of the east
Active member
I am actually surprised that I agree with much that is discussed, and wanted to give an additional perspective since a friend posted this article in facebook, and so I felt it was my duty to respond to it .. the link to the article is here:
How are you my brother, and thanks for posting this interesting article, one which I disagree with, and I will explain in detail why, because you are a well learned and open-minded person. So to start off, first, both you and I being brought up Muslim understand the lineage Islam draws up through Christianity to Judaism to Abraham in which Islam is the culmination of the message of God but we embrace all of it as part of our heritage. Second, both you and I know that there is a massive crisis in Islam, where Wahhabism has largely hijacked and perverted the Islamic narrative to something unrecognizable. Third, similarly Christianity is in a massive crisis as well in the US, the left/liberals have largely hijacked and perverted its narrative, and now when the term Christian is used it connotes white supremacy, racism, misogyny and xenophobia. But because true Islam stands for religious tolerance, we “resist” whenever any religion (especially our heritage) is being undermined. Fourth, since the Guardian newspaper is a bastion of left/liberals, which wants to form opinions instead of triggering free thought, I take anything they say with a huge pinch of salt. This is because like Christianity, Steve Bannon is also being smeared. One question is what does he mean by Judeo-Christian values (in fairness he should use Abrahamic religious values to better include true Muslims), and you can trace this back to the Declaration of Independence of the US which starts by saying:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator (note that the term Jehovah, Allah, God is not used) with certain unalienable rights that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness..."
The declaration of independence, the constitution, and the bill of rights (not to mention Islamic Jurisprudence – we are all equal in the eyes of Allah) are based on something called natural law, which is a philosophy that certain rights are inherent by virtue of human nature and can be understood universally through human reason.
That’s why Eisenhower in one of his addresses says ‘“all men are endowed by their Creator". In other words, our form of government has no sense unless it is founded in a deeply felt religious faith, and I don't care what it is. With us of course it is the Judeo-Christian concept, but it must be a religion with all men [and women] created equal."
In the US it is vital to remember that the founding fathers separated church from state, but they did not separate the creator from state; they acknowledged that the creator as the source of rights, and, in fact, they were careful to place Biblical (Judeo-Christian) morality directly into the founding documents and laws, and into the values and culture precisely to help prevent a future of totalitarian or tyrannical rule in the US. The combination of keeping Judeo-Christian religious morality in the state, as opposed to the church itself, and setting up the laws based on reason and common sense has contributed to what is known as "American exceptionalism".
So basically what the history tells us is that the founding fathers were religious in a new way - Judeo-Christian - and they were the liberals of their day by reasoning that political and human rights come from a power higher than human government; but they were conservative to Judeo-Christian morality. There was and still is a connection between God and Liberty, but what is ironic is that the conservatives are now the champion of this most liberal founding principle; and further irony is that most conservatives are largely unaware of their connection with the liberal founding ideas.
Overall what Bannon (and most true Muslims) are asking - in the age of crony capitalism led inequality, terror, stripping of liberties, growing intolerance (to women, other religions in Wahhabism, and to conservative thought, Christianity in the West) – is what happened to our values of human decency. Why has massive, big government (that entrenched crony capitalism led immoral inequality undermining liberties) displaced our values of being equal in the eyes of our creator, etc.??? These religious divides aren’t natural or an accident so while us Muslims are trying to recapture our true narrative, Bannon has more narratives to confront … Sorry for the long post, but since we are living in an Orwellian-like Dystopia, propaganda is the hardest pill to swallow.
Extremely well written. Thanks for sharing it.
Thank you as well ... the space for free thought and liberty is literally almost snuffed out ... and I cannot believe how subtly and steadily Christianity became demonized, and (sickening, uninformed) love for us Muslims grew. Neither religion is monolith but has been propagandized into their respective pigeon holes, and battle lines are drawn, dividing both, because of fascist views ...
While I would say without question you have an impressive ability to think critically, recently at a wedding, I was superficially discussing what is going on in the world with another guest. He framed it very simply and perhaps accurately, when he stated this battle that is being waged is between good and evil.
There are forces at play that want to further divide, to keep intelligent people of opposing views from civil discourse that finds common ground. In doing so, the seeds of hatred are purveyed, and out of that hatred s-called leaders seek to seize and hold power by inciting their base against the opposition party or group. Classically, this is how civilized groups of people have committed atrocities against masses of people, frequently based on ideological differences when racial or religious differences fail to generate discord.
I am actually surprised that I agree with much that is discussed, and wanted to give an additional perspective since a friend posted this article in facebook, and so I felt it was my duty to respond to it .. the link to the article is here:
How are you my brother, and thanks for posting this interesting article, one which I disagree with, and I will explain in detail why, because you are a well learned and open-minded person. So to start off, first, both you and I being brought up Muslim understand the lineage Islam draws up through Christianity to Judaism to Abraham in which Islam is the culmination of the message of God but we embrace all of it as part of our heritage. Second, both you and I know that there is a massive crisis in Islam, where Wahhabism has largely hijacked and perverted the Islamic narrative to something unrecognizable. Third, similarly Christianity is in a massive crisis as well in the US, the left/liberals have largely hijacked and perverted its narrative, and now when the term Christian is used it connotes white supremacy, racism, misogyny and xenophobia. But because true Islam stands for religious tolerance, we “resist” whenever any religion (especially our heritage) is being undermined. Fourth, since the Guardian newspaper is a bastion of left/liberals, which wants to form opinions instead of triggering free thought, I take anything they say with a huge pinch of salt. This is because like Christianity, Steve Bannon is also being smeared. One question is what does he mean by Judeo-Christian values (in fairness he should use Abrahamic religious values to better include true Muslims), and you can trace this back to the Declaration of Independence of the US which starts by saying:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator (note that the term Jehovah, Allah, God is not used) with certain unalienable rights that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness..."
The declaration of independence, the constitution, and the bill of rights (not to mention Islamic Jurisprudence – we are all equal in the eyes of Allah) are based on something called natural law, which is a philosophy that certain rights are inherent by virtue of human nature and can be understood universally through human reason.
That’s why Eisenhower in one of his addresses says ‘“all men are endowed by their Creator". In other words, our form of government has no sense unless it is founded in a deeply felt religious faith, and I don't care what it is. With us of course it is the Judeo-Christian concept, but it must be a religion with all men [and women] created equal."
In the US it is vital to remember that the founding fathers separated church from state, but they did not separate the creator from state; they acknowledged that the creator as the source of rights, and, in fact, they were careful to place Biblical (Judeo-Christian) morality directly into the founding documents and laws, and into the values and culture precisely to help prevent a future of totalitarian or tyrannical rule in the US. The combination of keeping Judeo-Christian religious morality in the state, as opposed to the church itself, and setting up the laws based on reason and common sense has contributed to what is known as "American exceptionalism".
So basically what the history tells us is that the founding fathers were religious in a new way - Judeo-Christian - and they were the liberals of their day by reasoning that political and human rights come from a power higher than human government; but they were conservative to Judeo-Christian morality. There was and still is a connection between God and Liberty, but what is ironic is that the conservatives are now the champion of this most liberal founding principle; and further irony is that most conservatives are largely unaware of their connection with the liberal founding ideas.
Overall what Bannon (and most true Muslims) are asking - in the age of crony capitalism led inequality, terror, stripping of liberties, growing intolerance (to women, other religions in Wahhabism, and to conservative thought, Christianity in the West) – is what happened to our values of human decency. Why has massive, big government (that entrenched crony capitalism led immoral inequality undermining liberties) displaced our values of being equal in the eyes of our creator, etc.??? These religious divides aren’t natural or an accident so while us Muslims are trying to recapture our true narrative, Bannon has more narratives to confront … Sorry for the long post, but since we are living in an Orwellian-like Dystopia, propaganda is the hardest pill to swallow.
Extremely well written. Thanks for sharing it.
Thank you as well ... the space for free thought and liberty is literally almost snuffed out ... and I cannot believe how subtly and steadily Christianity became demonized, and (sickening, uninformed) love for us Muslims grew. Neither religion is monolith but has been propagandized into their respective pigeon holes, and battle lines are drawn, dividing both, because of fascist views ...
While I would say without question you have an impressive ability to think critically, recently at a wedding, I was superficially discussing what is going on in the world with another guest. He framed it very simply and perhaps accurately, when he stated this battle that is being waged is between good and evil.
There are forces at play that want to further divide, to keep intelligent people of opposing views from civil discourse that finds common ground. In doing so, the seeds of hatred are purveyed, and out of that hatred s-called leaders seek to seize and hold power by inciting their base against the opposition party or group. Classically, this is how civilized groups of people have committed atrocities against masses of people, frequently based on ideological differences when racial or religious differences fail to generate discord.
Well said. We have never in the history of this planet experienced this astonishing level of income equality. A handful of rich, powerful people have established an ideological hegemony over the planet and they are almost impossible to counter. The only weapon of the weak, and I mean only, that they overlooked ... was the vote. So I hold out some hope but the heavy war waged war by brain-washed followers on the current administration leaves me pessimistic. Fascism on this side is also propagated by an extremely powerful group equally and heavily waged by an equally brainwashed cadre. It wouldn’t be surprising if both sides on top are in cahoots (without turning this into a conspiracy theory). I don't know if you remember a Khalid Sheikh Mohammed et. al. who abducted Daniel Pearl outside Hotel Metropole in Karachi (literally half a mile away from my then office where I was working with a non-governmental organization on helping the poorest of the poor to raise their incomes), and who was caught later in Rawalpindi, Pakistan. The vast silent majority was horrified knowing that Danny was Jewish, and that they knew it wouldn’t end well. But they had been pummeled themselves with severe domestic terrorism and fear, and with it the resistance. But the fascism of these people (and while I generally don't pay much attention to WPost) is profoundly captured in the article below, and reflects the horrifying crisis in the religion. So while the discourse on both Christians and Muslims has become monolith, and while Bannon separates jihadi islamic fascism from Islam, I think there is a need to drop Islamic in the first one, and call it jihadi fascism:
=.a2e9bb58d8f7
I am actually surprised that I agree with much that is discussed, and wanted to give an additional perspective since a friend posted this article in facebook, and so I felt it was my duty to respond to it .. the link to the article is here:
How are you my brother, and thanks for posting this interesting article, one which I disagree with, and I will explain in detail why, because you are a well learned and open-minded person. So to start off, first, both you and I being brought up Muslim understand the lineage Islam draws up through Christianity to Judaism to Abraham in which Islam is the culmination of the message of God but we embrace all of it as part of our heritage. Second, both you and I know that there is a massive crisis in Islam, where Wahhabism has largely hijacked and perverted the Islamic narrative to something unrecognizable. Third, similarly Christianity is in a massive crisis as well in the US, the left/liberals have largely hijacked and perverted its narrative, and now when the term Christian is used it connotes white supremacy, racism, misogyny and xenophobia. But because true Islam stands for religious tolerance, we “resist” whenever any religion (especially our heritage) is being undermined. Fourth, since the Guardian newspaper is a bastion of left/liberals, which wants to form opinions instead of triggering free thought, I take anything they say with a huge pinch of salt. This is because like Christianity, Steve Bannon is also being smeared. One question is what does he mean by Judeo-Christian values (in fairness he should use Abrahamic religious values to better include true Muslims), and you can trace this back to the Declaration of Independence of the US which starts by saying:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator (note that the term Jehovah, Allah, God is not used) with certain unalienable rights that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness..."
The declaration of independence, the constitution, and the bill of rights (not to mention Islamic Jurisprudence – we are all equal in the eyes of Allah) are based on something called natural law, which is a philosophy that certain rights are inherent by virtue of human nature and can be understood universally through human reason.
That’s why Eisenhower in one of his addresses says ‘“all men are endowed by their Creator". In other words, our form of government has no sense unless it is founded in a deeply felt religious faith, and I don't care what it is. With us of course it is the Judeo-Christian concept, but it must be a religion with all men [and women] created equal."
In the US it is vital to remember that the founding fathers separated church from state, but they did not separate the creator from state; they acknowledged that the creator as the source of rights, and, in fact, they were careful to place Biblical (Judeo-Christian) morality directly into the founding documents and laws, and into the values and culture precisely to help prevent a future of totalitarian or tyrannical rule in the US. The combination of keeping Judeo-Christian religious morality in the state, as opposed to the church itself, and setting up the laws based on reason and common sense has contributed to what is known as "American exceptionalism".
So basically what the history tells us is that the founding fathers were religious in a new way - Judeo-Christian - and they were the liberals of their day by reasoning that political and human rights come from a power higher than human government; but they were conservative to Judeo-Christian morality. There was and still is a connection between God and Liberty, but what is ironic is that the conservatives are now the champion of this most liberal founding principle; and further irony is that most conservatives are largely unaware of their connection with the liberal founding ideas.
Overall what Bannon (and most true Muslims) are asking - in the age of crony capitalism led inequality, terror, stripping of liberties, growing intolerance (to women, other religions in Wahhabism, and to conservative thought, Christianity in the West) – is what happened to our values of human decency. Why has massive, big government (that entrenched crony capitalism led immoral inequality undermining liberties) displaced our values of being equal in the eyes of our creator, etc.??? These religious divides aren’t natural or an accident so while us Muslims are trying to recapture our true narrative, Bannon has more narratives to confront … Sorry for the long post, but since we are living in an Orwellian-like Dystopia, propaganda is the hardest pill to swallow.
Extremely well written. Thanks for sharing it.
Thank you as well ... the space for free thought and liberty is literally almost snuffed out ... and I cannot believe how subtly and steadily Christianity became demonized, and (sickening, uninformed) love for us Muslims grew. Neither religion is monolith but has been propagandized into their respective pigeon holes, and battle lines are drawn, dividing both, because of fascist views ...
While I would say without question you have an impressive ability to think critically, recently at a wedding, I was superficially discussing what is going on in the world with another guest. He framed it very simply and perhaps accurately, when he stated this battle that is being waged is between good and evil.
There are forces at play that want to further divide, to keep intelligent people of opposing views from civil discourse that finds common ground. In doing so, the seeds of hatred are purveyed, and out of that hatred s-called leaders seek to seize and hold power by inciting their base against the opposition party or group. Classically, this is how civilized groups of people have committed atrocities against masses of people, frequently based on ideological differences when racial or religious differences fail to generate discord.
Well said. We have never in the history of this planet experienced this astonishing level of income equality. A handful of rich, powerful people have established an ideological hegemony over the planet and they are almost impossible to counter. The only weapon of the weak, and I mean only, that they overlooked ... was the vote. So I hold out some hope but the heavy war waged war by brain-washed followers on the current administration leaves me pessimistic. Fascism on this side is also propagated by an extremely powerful group equally and heavily waged by an equally brainwashed cadre. It wouldn’t be surprising if both sides on top are in cahoots (without turning this into a conspiracy theory). I don't know if you remember a Khalid Sheikh Mohammed et. al. who abducted Daniel Pearl outside Hotel Metropole in Karachi (literally half a mile away from my then office where I was working with a non-governmental organization on helping the poorest of the poor to raise their incomes), and who was caught later in Rawalpindi, Pakistan. The vast silent majority was horrified knowing that Danny was Jewish, and that they knew it wouldn’t end well. But they had been pummeled themselves with severe domestic terrorism and fear, and with it the resistance. But the fascism of these people (and while I generally don't pay much attention to WPost) is profoundly captured in the article below, and reflects the horrifying crisis in the religion. So while the discourse on both Christians and Muslims has become monolith, and while Bannon separates jihadi islamic fascism from Islam, I think there is a need to drop Islamic in the first one, and call it jihadi fascism:
=.a2e9bb58d8f7
I appreciate your perspective, which was perhaps more interesting knowing your background. You did lose me on the bipartisan conspiracy suggestion, alas that was not at all your point.
I personally have enormous regard for Steve Bannon as a strategist. I believe we are witnessing a brilliant mind wielding a perfect weapon (Trump). Fascism has never had a better chance (in the U.S.) in my lifetime.
I am actually surprised that I agree with much that is discussed, and wanted to give an additional perspective since a friend posted this article in facebook, and so I felt it was my duty to respond to it .. the link to the article is here:
How are you my brother, and thanks for posting this interesting article, one which I disagree with, and I will explain in detail why, because you are a well learned and open-minded person. So to start off, first, both you and I being brought up Muslim understand the lineage Islam draws up through Christianity to Judaism to Abraham in which Islam is the culmination of the message of God but we embrace all of it as part of our heritage. Second, both you and I know that there is a massive crisis in Islam, where Wahhabism has largely hijacked and perverted the Islamic narrative to something unrecognizable. Third, similarly Christianity is in a massive crisis as well in the US, the left/liberals have largely hijacked and perverted its narrative, and now when the term Christian is used it connotes white supremacy, racism, misogyny and xenophobia. But because true Islam stands for religious tolerance, we “resist” whenever any religion (especially our heritage) is being undermined. Fourth, since the Guardian newspaper is a bastion of left/liberals, which wants to form opinions instead of triggering free thought, I take anything they say with a huge pinch of salt. This is because like Christianity, Steve Bannon is also being smeared. One question is what does he mean by Judeo-Christian values (in fairness he should use Abrahamic religious values to better include true Muslims), and you can trace this back to the Declaration of Independence of the US which starts by saying:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator (note that the term Jehovah, Allah, God is not used) with certain unalienable rights that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness..."
The declaration of independence, the constitution, and the bill of rights (not to mention Islamic Jurisprudence – we are all equal in the eyes of Allah) are based on something called natural law, which is a philosophy that certain rights are inherent by virtue of human nature and can be understood universally through human reason.
That’s why Eisenhower in one of his addresses says ‘“all men are endowed by their Creator". In other words, our form of government has no sense unless it is founded in a deeply felt religious faith, and I don't care what it is. With us of course it is the Judeo-Christian concept, but it must be a religion with all men [and women] created equal."
In the US it is vital to remember that the founding fathers separated church from state, but they did not separate the creator from state; they acknowledged that the creator as the source of rights, and, in fact, they were careful to place Biblical (Judeo-Christian) morality directly into the founding documents and laws, and into the values and culture precisely to help prevent a future of totalitarian or tyrannical rule in the US. The combination of keeping Judeo-Christian religious morality in the state, as opposed to the church itself, and setting up the laws based on reason and common sense has contributed to what is known as "American exceptionalism".
So basically what the history tells us is that the founding fathers were religious in a new way - Judeo-Christian - and they were the liberals of their day by reasoning that political and human rights come from a power higher than human government; but they were conservative to Judeo-Christian morality. There was and still is a connection between God and Liberty, but what is ironic is that the conservatives are now the champion of this most liberal founding principle; and further irony is that most conservatives are largely unaware of their connection with the liberal founding ideas.
Overall what Bannon (and most true Muslims) are asking - in the age of crony capitalism led inequality, terror, stripping of liberties, growing intolerance (to women, other religions in Wahhabism, and to conservative thought, Christianity in the West) – is what happened to our values of human decency. Why has massive, big government (that entrenched crony capitalism led immoral inequality undermining liberties) displaced our values of being equal in the eyes of our creator, etc.??? These religious divides aren’t natural or an accident so while us Muslims are trying to recapture our true narrative, Bannon has more narratives to confront … Sorry for the long post, but since we are living in an Orwellian-like Dystopia, propaganda is the hardest pill to swallow.
Extremely well written. Thanks for sharing it.
Thank you as well ... the space for free thought and liberty is literally almost snuffed out ... and I cannot believe how subtly and steadily Christianity became demonized, and (sickening, uninformed) love for us Muslims grew. Neither religion is monolith but has been propagandized into their respective pigeon holes, and battle lines are drawn, dividing both, because of fascist views ...
While I would say without question you have an impressive ability to think critically, recently at a wedding, I was superficially discussing what is going on in the world with another guest. He framed it very simply and perhaps accurately, when he stated this battle that is being waged is between good and evil.
There are forces at play that want to further divide, to keep intelligent people of opposing views from civil discourse that finds common ground. In doing so, the seeds of hatred are purveyed, and out of that hatred s-called leaders seek to seize and hold power by inciting their base against the opposition party or group. Classically, this is how civilized groups of people have committed atrocities against masses of people, frequently based on ideological differences when racial or religious differences fail to generate discord.
Well said. We have never in the history of this planet experienced this astonishing level of income equality. A handful of rich, powerful people have established an ideological hegemony over the planet and they are almost impossible to counter. The only weapon of the weak, and I mean only, that they overlooked ... was the vote. So I hold out some hope but the heavy war waged war by brain-washed followers on the current administration leaves me pessimistic. Fascism on this side is also propagated by an extremely powerful group equally and heavily waged by an equally brainwashed cadre. It wouldn’t be surprising if both sides on top are in cahoots (without turning this into a conspiracy theory). I don't know if you remember a Khalid Sheikh Mohammed et. al. who abducted Daniel Pearl outside Hotel Metropole in Karachi (literally half a mile away from my then office where I was working with a non-governmental organization on helping the poorest of the poor to raise their incomes), and who was caught later in Rawalpindi, Pakistan. The vast silent majority was horrified knowing that Danny was Jewish, and that they knew it wouldn’t end well. But they had been pummeled themselves with severe domestic terrorism and fear, and with it the resistance. But the fascism of these people (and while I generally don't pay much attention to WPost) is profoundly captured in the article below, and reflects the horrifying crisis in the religion. So while the discourse on both Christians and Muslims has become monolith, and while Bannon separates jihadi islamic fascism from Islam, I think there is a need to drop Islamic in the first one, and call it jihadi fascism:
=.a2e9bb58d8f7
I appreciate your perspective, which was perhaps more interesting knowing your background. You did lose me on the bipartisan conspiracy suggestion, alas that was not at all your point.
I personally have enormous regard for Steve Bannon as a strategist. I believe we are witnessing a brilliant mind wielding a perfect weapon (Trump). Fascism has never had a better chance (in the U.S.) in my lifetime.
Sir, I would argue slightly differently. The indoctrination project was close to over if Clinton came into the office. Rather there is a glimmer of hope that a non-democrat and non-republican provides. I think he will be destroyed if the upholders of the constitution and the rule of law does not allow it.
Spocky Ramone
Well-known member
Fascism is the currently favored buzzword in the media today (followed immediately by "chaos", i wish somebody would lower the cone of silence every time I hear it). Since many are so concerned about it, I have two recommendations:
1) Exercise your 2nd Amendment rights. Encourage family and friends to follow suit.
2) Vote for smaller government.
1) Exercise your 2nd Amendment rights. Encourage family and friends to follow suit.
2) Vote for smaller government.
- Status