Nov 8, 2016 - The lesser of two evils?

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forgive the ignorance but cnn is either blocked or not working here and no english channels and no fcebook, google etc. What happened in orlando recently ?
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Hey, but at least you have Redmen.com - I mean, what more could you want?
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True. I suspect the reason why redmen.com isn't blocked here in China is that the chinese government thinks the redmen name is pro communist :)
 
I'm in favor of an assault weapons ban, ban on sale of armor piercing and dum dum bullets. Ok, that will keep those weapons out of the hands of law abiding people, but what channels do criminals and terrorists use to purchase weapons?

Maybe we should have a prison outside of the United States where the FBI can incarcerate those with terrorist ties until they are fully vetted and deemed to be safe. If anything, once it is established they are dangerous, they can be used to swap for military deserters.

I am a little foolish when it comes to the fight on Islamic terror. I thought we had taken the fight to them, and once Saddam Hussein was deposed, for the remained of that war we fought terrorists. By the end of 2007, the military surge that our left wing politicians thought was a farce resulted in US forces securing 18 out of 22 provinces in Iraq. I have a coworker who did 3 tours of combat duty in Afghanistan and Iraq as a paratrooper. He said that taking Ramadi was a vicious dogfight that took a huge effort to secure. He expressed dismay that the current administration gave all their gains paid for in blood and loss of limbs was given up so easily when we failed to negotiate the transfer of security forces to Iraq. The "junior varsity" Isis spread like bacteria after you take half the dose of an antibiotic - a superinfection occurs. I don't know for the life of me how they were able to occupy and take over large chunks of Iraq and Syria without any US knowledge.

I don't know what kind of President Trump would make, but I do have a damned good idea of the kind of President Hillary Clinton would make. Elizabeth Warren delivered an enraged hormonal hate speech against Trump that claimed he took his father's millions and "cheated" people to gain his wealth. What then would she say about Clinton, who along with her husband made politics a business and have become mega millionaires in process?

Until we take the fight to Isis and destroy them in the middle east, those wooed by their sophisticated global recruitment techniques will join in their deranged lust for innocent blood. Again, I'm not sure what kind of President Trump would make, but I do know that we need a leader that will stand up for America - something Obama and Clinton failed miserably at.
 
I'm still confused how one person was able to cause so much carnage with just an automatic weapon and a handgun... Like obviously at a club there are bouncers and tons of people... How does one shoot over 100 people with no one jumping in... I mean you cant have your six covered if you're on your own. How does no one stop him when he first starts opening fire? You can't tell me 3 or 4 people can't come up behind him and subdue him... Granted I've never been and hope to never be in that situation.. If I am though, I'm going down fighting... My prayers to the family and survivors though of this tragedy
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Dog, It wasn't an automatic weapon. It was actually a semi-automatic and a 9mm handgun. Huge difference between an automatic and a semi-automatic. Actually automatic weapon sales in the US are illegal.
 
I'm still confused how one person was able to cause so much carnage with just an automatic weapon and a handgun... Like obviously at a club there are bouncers and tons of people... How does one shoot over 100 people with no one jumping in... I mean you cant have your six covered if you're on your own. How does no one stop him when he first starts opening fire? You can't tell me 3 or 4 people can't come up behind him and subdue him... Granted I've never been and hope to never be in that situation.. If I am though, I'm going down fighting... My prayers to the family and survivors though of this tragedy
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Dog, It wasn't an automatic weapon. It was actually a semi-automatic and a 9mm handgun. Huge difference between an automatic and a semi-automatic. Actually automatic weapon sales in the US are illegal.
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Thanks Frank! Yeah, I personally don't know much about guns. Never even held one. Aside from air soft and paint ball... I don't like guns, however I also believe that a law abiding citizen should have the right to own if they so choose. So I see with semi automatic, you have to keep pulling the trigger as opposed to just holding down with rapid fire. Which again makes me wonder even more how he could do that much damage without anyone doing anything. I guess there is confusion and stuff when it first starts happening... But idk...I mean over 100 wounded or killed by one guy with 2 guns? How many bullets in an Ar15 magazine? Typically what, 30? So that's reloading at least 4 times... Just doesn't add up... I don't know...I guess we'll hear stories from the survivors and get a better understanding of what transpired in the club
 
Will the lbgt community protest local mosques like they do Catholic Churches? After all sharia law promotes the execution of homosexuals, but try to keep lbgt banners out of the St Patticks day parade and it's the end of the world.
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It's called selective outrage. There's an awful lot of hypocrites out there.
 
I'm still confused how one person was able to cause so much carnage with just an automatic weapon and a handgun... Like obviously at a club there are bouncers and tons of people... How does one shoot over 100 people with no one jumping in... I mean you cant have your six covered if you're on your own. How does no one stop him when he first starts opening fire? You can't tell me 3 or 4 people can't come up behind him and subdue him... Granted I've never been and hope to never be in that situation.. If I am though, I'm going down fighting... My prayers to the family and survivors though of this tragedy
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Dog, It wasn't an automatic weapon. It was actually a semi-automatic and a 9mm handgun. Huge difference between an automatic and a semi-automatic. Actually automatic weapon sales in the US are illegal.
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Just had this conversation yesterday with a friend, a former military man, who explained the difference. I had originally thought that the weapon used on Orlando was an auto-matic. As others have said, not sure how one person was able to do that much damage with a semi. Clearly if the guy was hellbent on destruction he was going to figure out a way to do something(bomb, etc). But it was made very easy for him with him having access to an AR15. I'm all for the right for law abiding citizens to bare arms, however still not sure why there is a need for even semi-automatic weapons, (especially one that causes as much internal damage as the AR-15) to be legal.
 
I'm in favor of an assault weapons ban, ban on sale of armor piercing and dum dum bullets. Ok, that will keep those weapons out of the hands of law abiding people, but what channels do criminals and terrorists use to purchase weapons?

Maybe we should have a prison outside of the United States where the FBI can incarcerate those with terrorist ties until they are fully vetted and deemed to be safe. If anything, once it is established they are dangerous, they can be used to swap for military deserters.

I am a little foolish when it comes to the fight on Islamic terror. I thought we had taken the fight to them, and once Saddam Hussein was deposed, for the remained of that war we fought terrorists. By the end of 2007, the military surge that our left wing politicians thought was a farce resulted in US forces securing 18 out of 22 provinces in Iraq. I have a coworker who did 3 tours of combat duty in Afghanistan and Iraq as a paratrooper. He said that taking Ramadi was a vicious dogfight that took a huge effort to secure. He expressed dismay that the current administration gave all their gains paid for in blood and loss of limbs was given up so easily when we failed to negotiate the transfer of security forces to Iraq. The "junior varsity" Isis spread like bacteria after you take half the dose of an antibiotic - a superinfection occurs. I don't know for the life of me how they were able to occupy and take over large chunks of Iraq and Syria without any US knowledge.

I don't know what kind of President Trump would make, but I do have a damned good idea of the kind of President Hillary Clinton would make. Elizabeth Warren delivered an enraged hormonal hate speech against Trump that claimed he took his father's millions and "cheated" people to gain his wealth. What then would she say about Clinton, who along with her husband made politics a business and have become mega millionaires in process?

Until we take the fight to Isis and destroy them in the middle east, those wooed by their sophisticated global recruitment techniques will join in their deranged lust for innocent blood. Again, I'm not sure what kind of President Trump would make, but I do know that we need a leader that will stand up for America - something Obama and Clinton failed miserably at.
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Here is something genuinely important that we agree on, well said.
 
I'm in favor of an assault weapons ban, ban on sale of armor piercing and dum dum bullets. Ok, that will keep those weapons out of the hands of law abiding people, but what channels do criminals and terrorists use to purchase weapons?

Maybe we should have a prison outside of the United States where the FBI can incarcerate those with terrorist ties until they are fully vetted and deemed to be safe. If anything, once it is established they are dangerous, they can be used to swap for military deserters.

I am a little foolish when it comes to the fight on Islamic terror. I thought we had taken the fight to them, and once Saddam Hussein was deposed, for the remained of that war we fought terrorists. By the end of 2007, the military surge that our left wing politicians thought was a farce resulted in US forces securing 18 out of 22 provinces in Iraq. I have a coworker who did 3 tours of combat duty in Afghanistan and Iraq as a paratrooper. He said that taking Ramadi was a vicious dogfight that took a huge effort to secure. He expressed dismay that the current administration gave all their gains paid for in blood and loss of limbs was given up so easily when we failed to negotiate the transfer of security forces to Iraq. The "junior varsity" Isis spread like bacteria after you take half the dose of an antibiotic - a superinfection occurs. I don't know for the life of me how they were able to occupy and take over large chunks of Iraq and Syria without any US knowledge.

I don't know what kind of President Trump would make, but I do have a damned good idea of the kind of President Hillary Clinton would make. Elizabeth Warren delivered an enraged hormonal hate speech against Trump that claimed he took his father's millions and "cheated" people to gain his wealth. What then would she say about Clinton, who along with her husband made politics a business and have become mega millionaires in process?

Until we take the fight to Isis and destroy them in the middle east, those wooed by their sophisticated global recruitment techniques will join in their deranged lust for innocent blood. Again, I'm not sure what kind of President Trump would make, but I do know that we need a leader that will stand up for America - something Obama and Clinton failed miserably at.
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Here is something genuinely important that we agree on, well said.
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Everything else on here is just two guys talking sports. Thank you.
 
I'm still confused how one person was able to cause so much carnage with just an automatic weapon and a handgun... Like obviously at a club there are bouncers and tons of people... How does one shoot over 100 people with no one jumping in... I mean you cant have your six covered if you're on your own. How does no one stop him when he first starts opening fire? You can't tell me 3 or 4 people can't come up behind him and subdue him... Granted I've never been and hope to never be in that situation.. If I am though, I'm going down fighting... My prayers to the family and survivors though of this tragedy
Click to expand...


Dog, It wasn't an automatic weapon. It was actually a semi-automatic and a 9mm handgun. Huge difference between an automatic and a semi-automatic. Actually automatic weapon sales in the US are illegal.
Click to expand...
But there is an adapter piece you can buy for like $50 (maybe $100, I forget what I saw on HBO special) that will make the semi very close to an automatic. Don't know that it was used by the Orlando shooter though.
 
I'm still confused how one person was able to cause so much carnage with just an automatic weapon and a handgun... Like obviously at a club there are bouncers and tons of people... How does one shoot over 100 people with no one jumping in... I mean you cant have your six covered if you're on your own. How does no one stop him when he first starts opening fire? You can't tell me 3 or 4 people can't come up behind him and subdue him... Granted I've never been and hope to never be in that situation.. If I am though, I'm going down fighting... My prayers to the family and survivors though of this tragedy
Click to expand...


Dog, It wasn't an automatic weapon. It was actually a semi-automatic and a 9mm handgun. Huge difference between an automatic and a semi-automatic. Actually automatic weapon sales in the US are illegal.
Click to expand...
But there is an adapter piece you can buy for like $50 (maybe $100, I forget what I saw on HBO special) that will make the semi very close to an automatic. Don't know that it was used by the Orlando shooter though.
Click to expand...

Good idea to rush him at his back but when you see or hear soneone firing a weapon majority panic and start fleeing. Now ,if someones had a legal gun to fire back,might have helped. But not sure think it is illegal even in Fl to carry in bars . So how does he bring in a rifle and a handgun
 
Well it did not descend into the toxic mud-slinging cage match that many expected. I am calling it a draw. The prospect of either one becoming POTUS is alarming.

I will say I did not think Holt was impartial.

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I thought it was a very weird ( as expected I guess ) debate. The funniest line was when he said he would release his tax returns when she returned th missing emails

I don't even think Trump prepared for the debate. SNL can't parody this soon enough for me

I don't think the debate moves the polls too much either way
 
I do agree that Trump should have been better prepared to hammer away at Hillary's record. When she dug deep into his past to accuse him of racial bias in renting one of his properties, he should have shot back that her entire public and private record is a litany of despicable actions to profit from office - from Whitewater, to her extremely shady profit of $100,000 within 1 year from a $1,000 investment, aided by Tyson executives, to lies about Benghazi, to lies about having only one cell phone (she had 12), to deliberate destruction of evidence while under investigation by the FBI (cell phones were smashed and emails deleted using a sophisticated program to scrub hard drives). Her record of deceipt, lies, and profiting from public service goes back 30+ years to Arkansas. I'd hammer her on her support for partial abortion - a disgusting, desipcable murder of a healthy baby about to be born. When she attacks him for supporting the Iraq war - which I supported and continue to support - his interview with Howard Stern from 2002 was lukewarm and undecided at best, I'd remind her that he was a civilian and she was a Senator who voted for the war. I'd remind her that like many who voted for it, her heart wasn't in it but she saw the war vote as politically beneficial to her based on the country's sentiment at the time. I'd go after this "feminist" who verbally attacked every woman (and there were many) who her husband had sexual affairs with, and never once apologized once their accusations turned out to be true.

Yes, Trump as a Presidential candidate offers much to be desired, but Hillary as a public servant and pathetic, habitual liar who wants to raise taxes, increase entitlements, and defeat ISIS while pledging to put no boots on the ground is a nightmare for all Americans.
 
Beastie, (no sarcasm), thank you for enumerating your anti-Hillary agenda. You and I usually have these discussions in private but your approach is forthrightly clear and worthy of response. Lesser of two evils is the rule of the day. As many who will vote for her agree, Hillary is disgusting. The problem for me is that while Hillary is disgusting in the context of the system we have (one with a sometimes clumsy, lurching, and painful but reliable capacity for self-correction), Trump's behavior suggests someone who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing, including our constitution, domestic checks and balances, and international approach to maintaining a world order in which we are the dominant military and economic power. I prefer putting up with her technocratic adjusting of our government for four years and then try fix it for real in 2020 with a credible candidate from either party, as opposed to risking the consequences of having the Presidency in the hands of someone who seems to have skipped eighth-grade American history and operates on what is often characterized as a Russian value system of "whatever I can get away with."

Regards from someone who lived in Pine Bluff, Arkansas as a boy.
 
Beastie, (no sarcasm), thank you for enumerating your anti-Hillary agenda. You and I usually have these discussions in private but your approach is forthrightly clear and worthy of response. Lesser of two evils is the rule of the day. As many who will vote for her agree, Hillary is disgusting. The problem for me is that while Hillary is disgusting in the context of the system we have (one with a sometimes clumsy, lurching, and painful but reliable capacity for self-correction), Trump's behavior suggests someone who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing, including our constitution, domestic checks and balances, and international approach to maintaining a world order in which we are the dominant military and economic power. I prefer putting up with her technocratic adjusting of our government for four years and then try fix it for real in 2020 with a credible candidate from either party, as opposed to risking the consequences of having the Presidency in the hands of someone who seems to have skipped eighth-grade American history and operates on what is often characterized as a Russian value system of "whatever I can get away with."

Regards from someone who lived in Pine Bluff, Arkansas as a boy.
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Respect your opinion, but many of the things Hillary has done as a public servant rise to the level of criminality. While Trump is perhaps one of the most inarticulate guys to have ever graduated from Wharton and admittedly worked every law to his benefit, he has built a corporation with some of the most impressive structures in the world, and has never been charged with anything approaching criminality. Agree with the lesser of 2 evils - among the 16 Republican candidates, I would have ranked him at or close to the bottom, and no matter who wins we are in for a rough ride. Hillary Clinton as Senator, First Lady, and SOS for over 20 years is frankly 20 years too many of the Clinton scourge on America.
 
Pence killing Kaine in this debate.Kaine looks unhinged. He won't let Pence finish a sentence
 
Pence killing Kaine in this debate.Kaine looks unhinged. He won't let Pence finish a sentence
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Kaine's tactic came out of the Democratic playbook after Romney slaughtered Obama in debate 1 in 2012. In the next debate, and in the Ryan vs. Biden debate, the game plan was to mock, cajole, interrupt continually to throw Romney and Ryan off their games. Biden was clucking like a chicken, and it reminded me of Kramer trying to rattle
the guy in the coffee shop thought was Joe Joe DiMaggio, who Kramer reasoned, would be unflappable and ignore him.

I believe there is absolutely no question that Pence won this debate, and of the 2 tickets trying to run this country, is the most articulate and presidential.
 
He was very smooth, uninformed voters wouldn't have any idea what a hateful POS he really is. ;)
 
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