Notre Dame Game

Despite the fact that he has shown an inability to shoot at this level, against BE type defenses, this is the game where he probably should have gotten more PT sonce ND is less athletic than a lot of other teams, and so Marco would have at least had a shot at being compettive.

But, having said that, I think he was 0 for 3, and he actually passed up a few relatively open looks. If he's on the floor and not going to shoot, he shouldn't be on the floor, becasue he sure as heck doesn't bring mkuch else to the table.

All in all, the team has few offesive threats at this point. Marco is not the answer. Actually, I was also disapointed in Branch, who I think could be a good option on offense, but he has not looked good since comintg back from the injury. He was not good last night. No one was.
 
What did the team have to gain from Dom being in the game at all while down 20 after he picked up the flagrant-1?? Why was Dom even in the game?
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Because Lavin is an awful coach? Just kidding obviosly, he's a geniyious. I think he put Pointer back in because having taught his team an important lesson about sportsmanship this week by suspending his best player and then having spect several days explaining in excrutiating detail why he was so heroic for having done so he figured Pointer would know not to punch anyone in the face.
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Do you think Pointer gets to be the face on the schedule next year, like Harrison this year?
Who is going to be the face for the media guide?
 
with this team getting destroyed what has Bourgault done to go from starting to getting a minute a game before being pulled again? The guy cant even break a sweat. We get it he's not Bill Russell or Metta World Peace on defense but the guys Lavin is playing would struggle to score against those kiddie teams at Halftime at CA. I thought we were past this with the only guy we have that can shoot. It reminds me of Norm not playing Dwight Hardy or Larry Wright or anyone else weve ever had that can shoot because they dont like their defense. We got outscored 44-14 without him. How much worse could it have been.
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It's very confusing. I can understand against a team like Pitt with their size and athleticism there are concerns about how he matches up defensively. But we're in zone most of the time anyway. And even though we were in man most of last night, ND is not Pitt. You would think Bourgault actually matches up pretty well with ND's style of play (slow/burn offense, strong on defense).

You could tell he was very frustrated last night. When Lavin pulled him towards the end and was trying to talk to him Bourault was not looking at him and seemed to be shaking his head. I'm not condoning that, but Marco clearly was not happy. And I don't blame him. He basically seems to be in a situation where if he makes his first 3 he plays, if he doesn't he gets pulled. Of all the types of players out their, shooters cannot get into a rhythm that way.
 
Correct. Coaches and teammates must believe in them. Grant could not heat up until the second half, but he is given that opportunity as are all shooters.
Just remember Starks. Riley is still waiting.
 
Chippy play in this game didn't just boil over suddenly, it was going on most of the game. Referees usually are able to take charge of the trash talk early, warn players during the game and should essentially control the thermostat. They didn't do that last night. However, the stain of the game caused by the fight has to be shared by both, ND and St John's.. It was a embarrassment for both Catholic schools, on national TV.

Our team played disgraceful BB that might be equal to any thrashing that Roberts endured during his tenure.. That's on Lavin and staff who seem unable to teach these players how to play the game..Either that, or the players he recruited aren't up to their press clippings.

Cooley's pick on Greene was clean but, caught him unaware. Responsibility for calling out screens like this one, rest with his teammates. I guess he didn't hear or wasn't warned.

Harrison would not have favorably impacted this game one iota, stop that nonsense. Actually, with his temper, the situation might have been worse, if that's possible.

So, after 3 years of Lavin, we find out his best team was comprised of Robert's Players..And, that may be his legacy team with the way things look now. I'm not optimistic about next year. Other than Sampson, if he stays and CO who is still learning BB fundamentals, I do not see Greene, Pointer, Garrett improving their individual game very much. They will be what they are now.. Not much more. That isn't a contending BE team in my book.

Sanchez? is he the next Walter Berry? Not Likely. Unless he's that dominant a player. Besides, if Sampson goes pro, he may be taking that forward spot. GG? a nice complimentary player, at best. Branch, when healthy, is a decent player, not a star.



I also expect some defections from our roster, after the season in a few weeks.. Who that will be is anyone's guess but, it will happen.

And, what about Lavin? The USC job is open but, is his resume worthy of consideration? Has the NY allure worn off for him and MRS.? Back to ESPN?
 
If this was a playground or the AAU circuit, we'd be right up there with the best of them.

But this is organized basketball with things like shot clocks, traveling calls, palming violations, illegal screens, etc.

My failure was actually thinking we could win games when this is exactly how the team was playing since November.

Maybe cut the nets from the rims at MSG and hang some metal chains from them. Or get rid of them altogether.

It'll make some of our players feel more at ease.

Goodness gracious. You can't expect the kids to execute anything other than what they know if you fail to teach them anything different.
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Absolutely a accurate assessment.. You could probably throw in free throws too, since they don't shoot them on the playground.
 
What does this team do well?

They players don't shoot, can't penetrate off the dribble, can't run the fast break, can't rebound and give up on defense regularly. As for being coached, they don't have or run any set plays and never seem to make adjustments during games.

I am by no means a basketball expert but I am extremely passionate about sju bball. Watching many of these games drives me crazy when you don't see much improvement. Don't no how much more my heart can take. Not looking for a NCAA championship(yet) but a nice steady improvement would be nice. Why would there be hope for next year when this team isn't much better than they were in November.
 
I'm surprised and have no idea why Phil Greene gets 14 or 16 shots a game and makes 5? This game was depressing because it summarizes the fact that we are putting players on the Court who cannot make baskets..And, yet, some here think this group of players will improve? I think they've gone backwards in terms of development.. Except Sampson..

It's unfathomable why Lavin refuses to put Bourgault in the game. He barely got 3 shots in this game..

I'm not ready to suggest Lavin be fired but, he's not delivering much for being so heralded a Coach when he was hired.I just find his game management missing.
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Outside of the Providence game, Bourgault has had his opportunities the last few games. He's not making shots. That's probably why he's not getting the PT that everybody on this board wants him to get.
 
In terms of strategy, one time - ONE TIME! - can we get something out of a timeout? I counted 4 times last night we had the the ball coming out of a timeout. These 4 possessions resulted in a turnover, a Balamou rushed 3 as the shotclock wound down, a contested Sampson baseline 17 footer after 1 pass, and a Greene stepback jumper that went in (the announcers lamented the shot as it went up, and made a comment along the lines sometimes bad shots go in) after 1 pass.

Every game our issue in that particular game could be identified by someone with a basic understanding of the game. Last night it would have been "why are they shooting so much from the perimeter when they can't make shots from the perimeter?" At some point you expect the adjustment to come and we at least try to get something going towards the basket, but it often doesn't (and definitely didn't last night). Branch is a bright spot in this regard as he (along with Sampson) at least try to get to the rim in the halfcourt. He's not there yet in terms of finishing, but at least he tries to get a piece of the paint and make something creative happen. This is a welcomed variance from all the east/west dribbling we do 30/40 feet from the basket.

It sometimes looks like they almost want to be too structured in the halfcourt, and only want to do exactly what the play they are running dictates that they do. A lot of times you see them pointing at each other like "you go there, no you go over there". This just results in delays and standstill dribbling and the ball not rotating on time and an appearance of confusion. You can't play offense like that. Offensive sets are a starting point. From there you make reads. We don't make many reads (at least inside 17 feet).
 
with this team getting destroyed what has Bourgault done to go from starting to getting a minute a game before being pulled again? The guy cant even break a sweat. We get it he's not Bill Russell or Metta World Peace on defense but the guys Lavin is playing would struggle to score against those kiddie teams at Halftime at CA. I thought we were past this with the only guy we have that can shoot. It reminds me of Norm not playing Dwight Hardy or Larry Wright or anyone else weve ever had that can shoot because they dont like their defense. We got outscored 44-14 without him. How much worse could it have been.
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It's very confusing. I can understand against a team like Pitt with their size and athleticism there are concerns about how he matches up defensively. But we're in zone most of the time anyway. And even though we were in man most of last night, ND is not Pitt. You would think Bourgault actually matches up pretty well with ND's style of play (slow/burn offense, strong on defense).


You could tell he was very frustrated last night. When Lavin pulled him towards the end and was trying to talk to him Bourault was not looking at him and seemed to be shaking his head. I'm not condoning that, but Marco clearly was not happy. And I don't blame him. He basically seems to be in a situation where if he makes his first 3 he plays, if he doesn't he gets pulled. Of all the types of players out their, shooters cannot get into a rhythm that way.
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Agree with both of you. I couldn't post last night because I would have ranted against my "favorite coach." Pulling Marco after a defensive mistake? I always thought Calhoun was an idiot for taking out his players after a mistake,but they got back in the game. Not Lavin, Marco appears to be his whipping boy. Hell, if you are going to pull players for defensive mistakes then why did Greene, Balamou and company not get yanked.
I was happy to hear both Digger and Knight comment about our lousy offense against the zone - no penetration and high - low movement , only perimeter passing. I have posted this all year. Our stellar coaches are not.
Even Jones is a victim, came in for a few minutes. Could he hurt any more then the non shooters, Balamou and Garrett, who had plenty of playing time.
I love Pointer, in fact I really think he could easily become a pro with his aggressive defense, rebounds and blocks. If only he could shoot. However, I believe he acted like a dirt bag last night, especially the whack (flagrant #1) he gave to their big man. Was this due to his family being present? Really disappointed.
Glad I didn't want to vent.
 
with this team getting destroyed what has Bourgault done to go from starting to getting a minute a game before being pulled again? The guy cant even break a sweat. We get it he's not Bill Russell or Metta World Peace on defense but the guys Lavin is playing would struggle to score against those kiddie teams at Halftime at CA. I thought we were past this with the only guy we have that can shoot. It reminds me of Norm not playing Dwight Hardy or Larry Wright or anyone else weve ever had that can shoot because they dont like their defense. We got outscored 44-14 without him. How much worse could it have been.
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It's very confusing. I can understand against a team like Pitt with their size and athleticism there are concerns about how he matches up defensively. But we're in zone most of the time anyway. And even though we were in man most of last night, ND is not Pitt. You would think Bourgault actually matches up pretty well with ND's style of play (slow/burn offense, strong on defense).


You could tell he was very frustrated last night. When Lavin pulled him towards the end and was trying to talk to him Bourault was not looking at him and seemed to be shaking his head. I'm not condoning that, but Marco clearly was not happy. And I don't blame him. He basically seems to be in a situation where if he makes his first 3 he plays, if he doesn't he gets pulled. Of all the types of players out their, shooters cannot get into a rhythm that way.
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Agree with both of you. I couldn't post last night because I would have ranted against my "favorite coach." Pulling Marco after a defensive mistake? I always thought Calhoun was an idiot for taking out his players after a mistake,but they got back in the game. Not Lavin, Marco appears to be his whipping boy. Hell, if you are going to pull players for defensive mistakes then why did Greene, Balamou and company not get yanked.
I was happy to hear both Digger and Knight comment about our lousy offense against the zone - no penetration and high - low movement , only perimeter passing. I have posted this all year. Our stellar coaches are not.
Even Jones is a victim, came in for a few minutes. Could he hurt any more then the non shooters, Balamou and Garrett, who had plenty of playing time.
I love Pointer, in fact I really think he could easily become a pro with his aggressive defense, rebounds and blocks. If only he could shoot. However, I believe he acted like a dirt bag last night, especially the whack (flagrant #1) he gave to their big man. Was this due to his family being present? Really disappointed.
Glad I didn't want to vent.
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His family has been at a number of games this year.
 
However, I believe he acted like a dirt bag last night, especially the whack (flagrant #1) he gave to their big man. Was this due to his family being present? Really disappointed.
Glad I didn't want to vent.
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His family has been at a number of games this year.
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Sat behind his dad during the Murray State game in Charleston. Pointer's two sisters were there, as well.
 
I am not sure what was more embarrassing: the play on the court or the fight.

If you watch Pointer every game, you know he is a chippy player. Don't know exactly what transpired, but his play and antics all game point to him as the culprit. And, he's been that way in other games. I like the kid, and think he's improved, but he has to control himself. Was a little dismayed to see his father's reaction (he was pleased by the incident). I don't mind a little mild trash talking, its a part of the game; but you can't let it get out of hand.

The Notre Dame kids and fans can be brutal, but our kids have to learn to control themselves. Obepka, Sampson and a few others did, they all have to.

But, the most concerning thing was the lack of offense and the lack of adjustment. We've seen this before, and they have to be able to figure out how to run an offense. To throw it around the perimeter is not an offense. I know when you have no one who can shoot, it is hard, but they have to develop something, anything. The kid on ND who torched us from the outside is a SHOOTER like we have not had since Chris. Bourgault is not a shooter like that. He continues to disappoint.


Next year will be better, and it can't come soon enough.
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I am not sure how Marco can disappoint by getting literally 1 chance a game to come off the bench and hit a shot. Lavs does absolutely nothing to help get him going.
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He's supposed to be a spot-up shooter. In each of the last 3 or 4 games, he's had 3 or 4 shots and made very few of them. If he doesn't do what he's assigned to do when he's in there, he does not warrant pt. He does nothing else particularly well, so if you have him and CO in the game, its like playing 5 on 3 on offense. if he happens to be hot (I have not really seen that yet), he gets more pt. It's pretty simple.
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You say Marco doesn't warrant playing time because he misses 3 or 4 shots, yet Greene plays the majority of each game and misses anywhere from 13 shots or more. Marco needs to know he's going to play regardless of missed three pointers. He has the form, shots will fall. I don't understand Lavin's decisions, especially the amount of playing time for Balamou.
 
Per Kieran Darcy, no further punishment coming from conference on last night's fight:

‏@KieranDarcy

Big East will take no further action regarding last night's St. John's-Notre Dame fight. Pointer, Biedscheid both suspended one game


So, Garrett is good to go for Saturday.
 
with this team getting destroyed what has Bourgault done to go from starting to getting a minute a game before being pulled again? The guy cant even break a sweat. We get it he's not Bill Russell or Metta World Peace on defense but the guys Lavin is playing would struggle to score against those kiddie teams at Halftime at CA. I thought we were past this with the only guy we have that can shoot. It reminds me of Norm not playing Dwight Hardy or Larry Wright or anyone else weve ever had that can shoot because they dont like their defense. We got outscored 44-14 without him. How much worse could it have been.
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It's very confusing. I can understand against a team like Pitt with their size and athleticism there are concerns about how he matches up defensively. But we're in zone most of the time anyway. And even though we were in man most of last night, ND is not Pitt. You would think Bourgault actually matches up pretty well with ND's style of play (slow/burn offense, strong on defense).


You could tell he was very frustrated last night. When Lavin pulled him towards the end and was trying to talk to him Bourault was not looking at him and seemed to be shaking his head. I'm not condoning that, but Marco clearly was not happy. And I don't blame him. He basically seems to be in a situation where if he makes his first 3 he plays, if he doesn't he gets pulled. Of all the types of players out their, shooters cannot get into a rhythm that way.
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Agree with both of you. I couldn't post last night because I would have ranted against my "favorite coach." Pulling Marco after a defensive mistake? I always thought Calhoun was an idiot for taking out his players after a mistake,but they got back in the game. Not Lavin, Marco appears to be his whipping boy. Hell, if you are going to pull players for defensive mistakes then why did Greene, Balamou and company not get yanked.
I was happy to hear both Digger and Knight comment about our lousy offense against the zone - no penetration and high - low movement , only perimeter passing. I have posted this all year. Our stellar coaches are not.
Even Jones is a victim, came in for a few minutes. Could he hurt any more then the non shooters, Balamou and Garrett, who had plenty of playing time.
I love Pointer, in fact I really think he could easily become a pro with his aggressive defense, rebounds and blocks. If only he could shoot. However, I believe he acted like a dirt bag last night, especially the whack (flagrant #1) he gave to their big man. Was this due to his family being present? Really disappointed.
Glad I didn't want to vent.
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Marco getting some tough Lavin love. When he gets it he also gets all the playing time his conditioning can handle. Going back a few weeks Marco could not last 30 seconds in a game. Must be getting more out of practice.
 
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