Next Coach?

[we are sju]

Mahoney and Jarvis are the only STJ coaches in my lifetime who left the program in worse shape than it was when they got there. By that token I'll say Lavin is marginally more successful than Jarvis, plus Jarvis trended down throughout his tenure with a slight reprieve riding the back of Marcus Hatten. Have I ever told you how I blame Marcus Hatten for the downfall of STJ's to this extent?

Did you like the Elite 8 team?
Nothing that happened after that changes how you felt watching them and if you say it does you are kidding yourself.

 

[redmen2014champs]

Just to interject a different slant on Jarvis -

Before the season he was canned, I gave up my treasured season tickets because he was still there.. and it had nothing to do with wins or losses. I couldn't root any longer for a program that had a coach who not only tolerated, but defended kids like Grady Reynolds, or kids who punched opponents in the groin, or kids who racially taunted elevator operators, or who likened Barkley's hassles with the corrupt NCAA to rape, etc.

A coach can't guarantee what a kid will or won't do. A coach can only show what kind of man/teacher/role model he is by how he deals with situations when they arise - as they always will.

Jarvis showed who and what he was and I found it despicable. Are wins and losses the only measure of a coach? If you had told me Jarvis was guaranteed to win the NCAA tourney if he was brought back, I would've said no.

Everyone who has ever hired Calipari strongly disagrees with you. College basketball is a big buisness. This is not "Hoosiers". No disrespect but I think you should follow CYO basketball if you want to keep your value system that you posted above. In the college basketball coach dirtbag scale Jarvis would hardly cause a blip.

It has taken the program a long time to wash off the stench of Jarvis' tenure. We are still rebuilding connections with NYC area high schools.

Yeah you can really tell by all the NYC kids we have. Jarvis is 12 years removed, can't still blame him for recruiting issues 12 years later.
Listen I get people think or know he was an arrogant jerk. My only point is who cares? I would vote for Calipari being hires even if it meant taking a big eraser and erasing Louie's name off his court.

That is probably the worst thing you could possibly say on Redmen.com. If my kids said that I would wash their mouths out with soap, ground them for a year and contemplate going the Adrian Peterson route.

Joking that I would take Cal over Louie being made upset you so much that you decided to make a joke about a professional athlete beating his 5 year old with a tree branch. Think you need to get your priorities straight my man.

Not upset at all. Just curious why your joke about choosing the devil over the closest person I know to sainthood is okay but mine about a guy who unfortunately is not doing jail time isn't. :evil:

 

[austour]

Mahoney and Jarvis are the only STJ coaches in my lifetime who left the program in worse shape than it was when they got there. By that token I'll say Lavin is marginally more successful than Jarvis, plus Jarvis trended down throughout his tenure with a slight reprieve riding the back of Marcus Hatten. Have I ever told you how I blame Marcus Hatten for the downfall of STJ's to this extent?

Did you like the Elite 8 team?
Nothing that happened after that changes how you felt watching that and if you say it does you are kidding yourself.

I found myself thinking, imagine if Fran was still here how good these guys would be!

PS - I've cared for every girl after the first time. Not sure I cared for any of them as much down the line, except my wife of course.

 

[Class of 72]

Buffalo's rpi is 40 right behind STJ at 39.

and.....are you suggesting that UB is just as good as us and that Bobby Hurley is a better coach then Lav? I think its all ridiculous and again, lets wait until the season is over before anyone fires the guy. One question though, if anyone asked you if you'd be happy with the Johnnies at 19-9 with 3 games remaining before the BE tourney at the start of the season, I bet MOST of us would say sure. Anything can happen in the Dance and we will be there! These kids are right there, lets support the team and LAV now, you have all off season to tear down any walls.
Go Johnnies!!!!!

At the start of the season, the only thing any fan was willing to accept was at least a win or two in the NCAA's. One bid and 0 wins every four years is not acceptable. There is a very strong chance that next year's class will be underwhelming. Unless Lav performs an 11th hour miracle (and why he only has two commits so far is mind-boggling), there is a very good chance SJU will miss the NCAA's the next couple of years.

Dom's game has grown beautifully, and I wish the seniors all the best. But don't confuse this recent streak for anything close to a sustainable program.

Well put. I don't want to take away anything from the players on the court...I love the energy we've been seeing, and the emergence of Dom and Jordan. I would love to see this team not only make the tournament, but win at least one game. They deserve that feeling of accomplishment. Lav's body of work has not assured him of anything. His top accomplishments are a few scattered win streaks like the one we are in now. Our current win streak includes Xavier, Depaul, Seton Hall and Creighton. Last years Feb win streak included similar teams, but with one marquee win against #12 Creighton. One Big East Tournament Win, One NIT win, in four years. That's his 2 million a year resume. That's simply not good enough.

Dont chalk him up as nothing either. 1 tourney, 2 nits in 4 years at school who hasnt done anything worth mention for 10+years.

In the five years Lavin has been here we have won 11 games against this group of schools;
Cuse, Duke, nova, gtown, uconn, marquette

In the five years previous to lavin we had 5 combined wins.

Trust me im far from a lavin lover but he hasn't failed here imo. Due to his instant success, the expectations just rose too high. This group he has had now has improved their record every year. Maybe the volatile feel of the program was more a function of starting from scratch and maybe this next cycle will improve.

Gets to the tourney this year then no way he gets canned.

At the end of the day, the people who are paying him are the ultimately the ones who decide if he has succeeded or failed here. I have said all along, and I continue to say, that he should neither be fired nor extended this year, regardless of what happens. Lets see how we finish out the year and what kind of team he puts on the floor next year. There's really no need to rush that decision at this point. But for cryin out loud can we please stop comparing Lavin's tenure here to that of his predecessor? Norm is not the gage by which most reasonable SJU fans wish to judge Lavin. Only the apologists wish to do that.

I have to say that saying that we should not compare Lavin's tenure to Norm's is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. Who do you want to compare Lavin's tenure to? Coach K? Jim Calhoun? Jimmy Boeheim? Of course it's fair to compare Lavin's tenure to Norm's! For all the obvious reasons. They both coached here is the most blatant one. It's only the Lavin haters who do not want to do that, because when you do compare Lavin's tenure to Norm's the differences are glaring. And in Lavin's favor.

Compare t to Jarvis' tenure too then:

Jarvis in five seasons:
1 Big East Championship, 1 Elite 8, 3 NCAAs, 1 NIT Championship
6-4 in BE Tourney
4-3 in NCAAs
5-0 in NIT
Total Postseason Record: 15-7

Lavin in almost five seasons:
ZERO Big East Titles, 1 NCAA Tournament, 2 NITS
1-4 in BE Tourney
1-2 in NIT
0-1 NCAAs
Total Postseason Record: 2-7

Only bringing up Jarvis because he was run out of town with a resume much better than "Lav" has amassed

You can all continue your mob mentality and start attacking me now.

Purely basketball, I agree, I had no problem with the Jarvis years if we are just talking wins and losses and product on the floor. However, that obviously wasn't the reason why he was "run out of town". Why do you always bring up Jarvis? I'm not in the inner circle so I don't know the history of all the give and take between you and others and the nicknames, etc. Did you work for Jarvis?[/quote]



LMAO!
No, he never met the man! Strictly going by the record with an objective point of view. B)
In reality, coach Jarvis had a terrific career at George Washington where his teams always overachieved. He did a great job with the Fran Fraschilla recruits and by year 3 dark clouds started to form over the program under his watch to the point where he lost institutional control and what should have been a great career ending at a school that gave him the opportunity to coach in the Big East he took it merely as a stepping stone, like Fran Fraschilla, and lost the trust of both the school and the fans. Well, almost all the fans.

 

[austour]

One other thing about Jarvis is in hindsight I equate him to Cheney in that both were called for advice in a job search and both ended up more interested in getting the job than giving the best advice. Cheney's now a war criminal. Jarvis . . .

 

[Class of 72]

One other thing about Jarvis is in hindsight I equate him to Cheney in that both were called for advice in a job search and both ended up more interested in getting the job than giving the best advice. Cheney's now a war criminal. Jarvis . . .

Coach Jarvis now gives speeches to young people about the evils of doing drugs near schools, bullying fellow students, not making lite of the word rape, ethics in your relationship with employers, etc.

 

 

[we are sju]

Just to interject a different slant on Jarvis -

Before the season he was canned, I gave up my treasured season tickets because he was still there.. and it had nothing to do with wins or losses. I couldn't root any longer for a program that had a coach who not only tolerated, but defended kids like Grady Reynolds, or kids who punched opponents in the groin, or kids who racially taunted elevator operators, or who likened Barkley's hassles with the corrupt NCAA to rape, etc.

A coach can't guarantee what a kid will or won't do. A coach can only show what kind of man/teacher/role model he is by how he deals with situations when they arise - as they always will.

Jarvis showed who and what he was and I found it despicable. Are wins and losses the only measure of a coach? If you had told me Jarvis was guaranteed to win the NCAA tourney if he was brought back, I would've said no.

Everyone who has ever hired Calipari strongly disagrees with you. College basketball is a big buisness. This is not "Hoosiers". No disrespect but I think you should follow CYO basketball if you want to keep your value system that you posted above. In the college basketball coach dirtbag scale Jarvis would hardly cause a blip.

It has taken the program a long time to wash off the stench of Jarvis' tenure. We are still rebuilding connections with NYC area high schools.

Yeah you can really tell by all the NYC kids we have. Jarvis is 12 years removed, can't still blame him for recruiting issues 12 years later.
Listen I get people think or know he was an arrogant jerk. My only point is who cares? I would vote for Calipari being hires even if it meant taking a big eraser and erasing Louie's name off his court.

That is probably the worst thing you could possibly say on Redmen.com. If my kids said that I would wash their mouths out with soap, ground them for a year and contemplate going the Adrian Peterson route.

Joking that I would take Cal over Louie being made upset you so much that you decided to make a joke about a professional athlete beating his 5 year old with a tree branch. Think you need to get your priorities straight my man.

Not upset at all. Just curious why your joke about choosing the devil over the closest person I know to sainthood is okay but mine about a guy who unfortunately is not doing jail time isn't. :evil:

My point is you are overeacting. You can't get on a high horse over Cal(Devil?) Then joke about Peterson who really should be in jail.
I grew up on Louie's teams, would still be happy with Cal being hired as would every other fan. Easy to be indignant about something that will never happen anyway

 

[frank61]

Buffalo's rpi is 40 right behind STJ at 39.

and.....are you suggesting that UB is just as good as us and that Bobby Hurley is a better coach then Lav? I think its all ridiculous and again, lets wait until the season is over before anyone fires the guy. One question though, if anyone asked you if you'd be happy with the Johnnies at 19-9 with 3 games remaining before the BE tourney at the start of the season, I bet MOST of us would say sure. Anything can happen in the Dance and we will be there! These kids are right there, lets support the team and LAV now, you have all off season to tear down any walls.
Go Johnnies!!!!!

At the start of the season, the only thing any fan was willing to accept was at least a win or two in the NCAA's. One bid and 0 wins every four years is not acceptable. There is a very strong chance that next year's class will be underwhelming. Unless Lav performs an 11th hour miracle (and why he only has two commits so far is mind-boggling), there is a very good chance SJU will miss the NCAA's the next couple of years.

Dom's game has grown beautifully, and I wish the seniors all the best. But don't confuse this recent streak for anything close to a sustainable program.

Well put. I don't want to take away anything from the players on the court...I love the energy we've been seeing, and the emergence of Dom and Jordan. I would love to see this team not only make the tournament, but win at least one game. They deserve that feeling of accomplishment. Lav's body of work has not assured him of anything. His top accomplishments are a few scattered win streaks like the one we are in now. Our current win streak includes Xavier, Depaul, Seton Hall and Creighton. Last years Feb win streak included similar teams, but with one marquee win against #12 Creighton. One Big East Tournament Win, One NIT win, in four years. That's his 2 million a year resume. That's simply not good enough.

Dont chalk him up as nothing either. 1 tourney, 2 nits in 4 years at school who hasnt done anything worth mention for 10+years.

In the five years Lavin has been here we have won 11 games against this group of schools;
Cuse, Duke, nova, gtown, uconn, marquette

In the five years previous to lavin we had 5 combined wins.

Trust me im far from a lavin lover but he hasn't failed here imo. Due to his instant success, the expectations just rose too high. This group he has had now has improved their record every year. Maybe the volatile feel of the program was more a function of starting from scratch and maybe this next cycle will improve.

Gets to the tourney this year then no way he gets canned.

At the end of the day, the people who are paying him are the ultimately the ones who decide if he has succeeded or failed here. I have said all along, and I continue to say, that he should neither be fired nor extended this year, regardless of what happens. Lets see how we finish out the year and what kind of team he puts on the floor next year. There's really no need to rush that decision at this point. But for cryin out loud can we please stop comparing Lavin's tenure here to that of his predecessor? Norm is not the gage by which most reasonable SJU fans wish to judge Lavin. Only the apologists wish to do that.

I have to say that saying that we should not compare Lavin's tenure to Norm's is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. Who do you want to compare Lavin's tenure to? Coach K? Jim Calhoun? Jimmy Boeheim? Of course it's fair to compare Lavin's tenure to Norm's! For all the obvious reasons. They both coached here is the most blatant one. It's only the Lavin haters who do not want to do that, because when you do compare Lavin's tenure to Norm's the differences are glaring. And in Lavin's favor.

Compare t to Jarvis' tenure too then:

Jarvis in five seasons:
1 Big East Championship, 1 Elite 8, 3 NCAAs, 1 NIT Championship
6-4 in BE Tourney
4-3 in NCAAs
5-0 in NIT
Total Postseason Record: 15-7

Lavin in almost five seasons:
ZERO Big East Titles, 1 NCAA Tournament, 2 NITS
1-4 in BE Tourney
1-2 in NIT
0-1 NCAAs
Total Postseason Record: 2-7

Only bringing up Jarvis because he was run out of town with a resume much better than "Lav" has amassed

You can all continue your mob mentality and start attacking me now.

There is one number missing in the comparison, and that is the stench that was associated with our program when Jarvis was here. Lavin has re-awakend a good perception of our program again. He has been good for the University. I think how he handled the difficulties with Harrison and Jordan took guts on his part (particularly when he is looking for wins). I think Harrison is a better person both on and off the court as a result of it. I also believe Jordan has also showed improvement in the attitude department lately. I think the coach should be commended for it. Lavin has a 6 year contract, let's see how this plays out before we talk of ending his tenure.

 

[we are sju]

Mahoney and Jarvis are the only STJ coaches in my lifetime who left the program in worse shape than it was when they got there. By that token I'll say Lavin is marginally more successful than Jarvis, plus Jarvis trended down throughout his tenure with a slight reprieve riding the back of Marcus Hatten. Have I ever told you how I blame Marcus Hatten for the downfall of STJ's to this extent?

Did you like the Elite 8 team?
Nothing that happened after that changes how you felt watching that and if you say it does you are kidding yourself.

I found myself thinking, imagine if Fran was still here how good these guys would be!

PS - I've cared for every girl after the first time. Not sure I cared for any of them as much down the line, except my wife of course.

With Fran at most they could have only been 3 games better. At worst.....

For the record I liked Fran, but I did know a player on his team and accordingly to him they all hated Fran. Believe it or not from what I have also been told Jarvis players liked him?

My only point in defending against the villification of Jarvis is I really liked the Elite 8 team. I can't get past that.

 

[JacStorm]

Just to interject a different slant on Jarvis -

Before the season he was canned, I gave up my treasured season tickets because he was still there.. and it had nothing to do with wins or losses. I couldn't root any longer for a program that had a coach who not only tolerated, but defended kids like Grady Reynolds, or kids who punched opponents in the groin, or kids who racially taunted elevator operators, or who likened Barkley's hassles with the corrupt NCAA to rape, etc.

A coach can't guarantee what a kid will or won't do. A coach can only show what kind of man/teacher/role model he is by how he deals with situations when they arise - as they always will.

Jarvis showed who and what he was and I found it despicable. Are wins and losses the only measure of a coach? If you had told me Jarvis was guaranteed to win the NCAA tourney if he was brought back, I would've said no.

Everyone who has ever hired Calipari strongly disagrees with you. College basketball is a big buisness. This is not "Hoosiers". No disrespect but I think you should follow CYO basketball if you want to keep your value system that you posted above. In the college basketball coach dirtbag scale Jarvis would hardly cause a blip.

It has taken the program a long time to wash off the stench of Jarvis' tenure. We are still rebuilding connections with NYC area high schools.

Yeah you can really tell by all the NYC kids we have. Jarvis is 12 years removed, can't still blame him for recruiting issues 12 years later.
Listen I get people think or know he was an arrogant jerk. My only point is who cares? I would vote for Calipari being hires even if it meant taking a big eraser and erasing Louie's name off his court.

That is probably the worst thing you could possibly say on Redmen.com. If my kids said that I would wash their mouths out with soap, ground them for a year and contemplate going the Adrian Peterson route.

Joking that I would take Cal over Louie being made upset you so much that you decided to make a joke about a professional athlete beating his 5 year old with a tree branch. Think you need to get your priorities straight my man.

Not upset at all. Just curious why your joke about choosing the devil over the closest person I know to sainthood is okay but mine about a guy who unfortunately is not doing jail time isn't. :evil:

My point is you are overeacting. You can't get on a high horse over Cal(Devil?) Then joke about Peterson who really should be in jail.
I grew up on Louie's teams, would still be happy with Cal being hired as would every other fan. Easy to be indignant about something that will never happen anyway

"as would every other fan"???? No, not this one, and, I think, a lot fewer than you assume. Just, perhaps, a bit quieter than some others…

 

[we are sju]

Just to interject a different slant on Jarvis -

Before the season he was canned, I gave up my treasured season tickets because he was still there.. and it had nothing to do with wins or losses. I couldn't root any longer for a program that had a coach who not only tolerated, but defended kids like Grady Reynolds, or kids who punched opponents in the groin, or kids who racially taunted elevator operators, or who likened Barkley's hassles with the corrupt NCAA to rape, etc.

A coach can't guarantee what a kid will or won't do. A coach can only show what kind of man/teacher/role model he is by how he deals with situations when they arise - as they always will.

Jarvis showed who and what he was and I found it despicable. Are wins and losses the only measure of a coach? If you had told me Jarvis was guaranteed to win the NCAA tourney if he was brought back, I would've said no.

Everyone who has ever hired Calipari strongly disagrees with you. College basketball is a big buisness. This is not "Hoosiers". No disrespect but I think you should follow CYO basketball if you want to keep your value system that you posted above. In the college basketball coach dirtbag scale Jarvis would hardly cause a blip.

It has taken the program a long time to wash off the stench of Jarvis' tenure. We are still rebuilding connections with NYC area high schools.

Yeah you can really tell by all the NYC kids we have. Jarvis is 12 years removed, can't still blame him for recruiting issues 12 years later.
Listen I get people think or know he was an arrogant jerk. My only point is who cares? I would vote for Calipari being hires even if it meant taking a big eraser and erasing Louie's name off his court.

That is probably the worst thing you could possibly say on Redmen.com. If my kids said that I would wash their mouths out with soap, ground them for a year and contemplate going the Adrian Peterson route.

Joking that I would take Cal over Louie being made upset you so much that you decided to make a joke about a professional athlete beating his 5 year old with a tree branch. Think you need to get your priorities straight my man.

Not upset at all. Just curious why your joke about choosing the devil over the closest person I know to sainthood is okay but mine about a guy who unfortunately is not doing jail time isn't. :evil:

My point is you are overeacting. You can't get on a high horse over Cal(Devil?) Then joke about Peterson who really should be in jail.
I grew up on Louie's teams, would still be happy with Cal being hired as would every other fan. Easy to be indignant about something that will never happen anyway

"as would every other fan"???? No, not this one, and, I think, a lot fewer than you assume. Just, perhaps, a bit quieter than some others…

Again this is about as realistic as arguiing who would win a fight between Superman and the Hulk, but you are telling me if Cal was hired you would be upset? Again it is easier to jump up on a High Horse regarding something that can never really happen.

 

[JacStorm]

Just to interject a different slant on Jarvis -

Before the season he was canned, I gave up my treasured season tickets because he was still there.. and it had nothing to do with wins or losses. I couldn't root any longer for a program that had a coach who not only tolerated, but defended kids like Grady Reynolds, or kids who punched opponents in the groin, or kids who racially taunted elevator operators, or who likened Barkley's hassles with the corrupt NCAA to rape, etc.

A coach can't guarantee what a kid will or won't do. A coach can only show what kind of man/teacher/role model he is by how he deals with situations when they arise - as they always will.

Jarvis showed who and what he was and I found it despicable. Are wins and losses the only measure of a coach? If you had told me Jarvis was guaranteed to win the NCAA tourney if he was brought back, I would've said no.

Everyone who has ever hired Calipari strongly disagrees with you. College basketball is a big buisness. This is not "Hoosiers". No disrespect but I think you should follow CYO basketball if you want to keep your value system that you posted above. In the college basketball coach dirtbag scale Jarvis would hardly cause a blip.

It has taken the program a long time to wash off the stench of Jarvis' tenure. We are still rebuilding connections with NYC area high schools.

Yeah you can really tell by all the NYC kids we have. Jarvis is 12 years removed, can't still blame him for recruiting issues 12 years later.
Listen I get people think or know he was an arrogant jerk. My only point is who cares? I would vote for Calipari being hires even if it meant taking a big eraser and erasing Louie's name off his court.

That is probably the worst thing you could possibly say on Redmen.com. If my kids said that I would wash their mouths out with soap, ground them for a year and contemplate going the Adrian Peterson route.

Joking that I would take Cal over Louie being made upset you so much that you decided to make a joke about a professional athlete beating his 5 year old with a tree branch. Think you need to get your priorities straight my man.

Not upset at all. Just curious why your joke about choosing the devil over the closest person I know to sainthood is okay but mine about a guy who unfortunately is not doing jail time isn't. :evil:

My point is you are overeacting. You can't get on a high horse over Cal(Devil?) Then joke about Peterson who really should be in jail.
I grew up on Louie's teams, would still be happy with Cal being hired as would every other fan. Easy to be indignant about something that will never happen anyway

"as would every other fan"???? No, not this one, and, I think, a lot fewer than you assume. Just, perhaps, a bit quieter than some others…

Again this is about as realistic as arguiing who would win a fight between Superman and the Hulk, but you are telling me if Cal was hired you would be upset? Again it is easier to jump up on a High Horse regarding something that can never really happen.

lol You can choose not to believe it, but I can tell you unequivocally that for a host of reasons I won't get into here, yes, I'd be very upset.

 

[austour]

Mahoney and Jarvis are the only STJ coaches in my lifetime who left the program in worse shape than it was when they got there. By that token I'll say Lavin is marginally more successful than Jarvis, plus Jarvis trended down throughout his tenure with a slight reprieve riding the back of Marcus Hatten. Have I ever told you how I blame Marcus Hatten for the downfall of STJ's to this extent?

Did you like the Elite 8 team?
Nothing that happened after that changes how you felt watching that and if you say it does you are kidding yourself.

I found myself thinking, imagine if Fran was still here how good these guys would be!

PS - I've cared for every girl after the first time. Not sure I cared for any of them as much down the line, except my wife of course.

With Fran at most they could have only been 3 games better. At worst.....

For the record I liked Fran, but I did know a player on his team and accordingly to him they all hated Fran. Believe it or not from what I have also been told Jarvis players liked him?

My only point in defending against the villification of Jarvis is I really liked the Elite 8 team. I can't get past that.

Loved that team too. In fact I pretty much love every STJ team. That's why I spend much of my free time on this board. Doesn't make me oblivious to the fact that it was all downhill from there nor forget that the most creative offense Jarvis could come up with once the Riverside guys were done running their own show was the Globetrotter weave followed by a Cook or Hatten heave with .5 left on the shot clock. One thing I always gave Jarvis was he could coach some defense though.

 

[monte]

Buffalo's rpi is 40 right behind STJ at 39.

and.....are you suggesting that UB is just as good as us and that Bobby Hurley is a better coach then Lav? I think its all ridiculous and again, lets wait until the season is over before anyone fires the guy. One question though, if anyone asked you if you'd be happy with the Johnnies at 19-9 with 3 games remaining before the BE tourney at the start of the season, I bet MOST of us would say sure. Anything can happen in the Dance and we will be there! These kids are right there, lets support the team and LAV now, you have all off season to tear down any walls.
Go Johnnies!!!!!

At the start of the season, the only thing any fan was willing to accept was at least a win or two in the NCAA's. One bid and 0 wins every four years is not acceptable. There is a very strong chance that next year's class will be underwhelming. Unless Lav performs an 11th hour miracle (and why he only has two commits so far is mind-boggling), there is a very good chance SJU will miss the NCAA's the next couple of years.

Dom's game has grown beautifully, and I wish the seniors all the best. But don't confuse this recent streak for anything close to a sustainable program.

Well put. I don't want to take away anything from the players on the court...I love the energy we've been seeing, and the emergence of Dom and Jordan. I would love to see this team not only make the tournament, but win at least one game. They deserve that feeling of accomplishment. Lav's body of work has not assured him of anything. His top accomplishments are a few scattered win streaks like the one we are in now. Our current win streak includes Xavier, Depaul, Seton Hall and Creighton. Last years Feb win streak included similar teams, but with one marquee win against #12 Creighton. One Big East Tournament Win, One NIT win, in four years. That's his 2 million a year resume. That's simply not good enough.

Dont chalk him up as nothing either. 1 tourney, 2 nits in 4 years at school who hasnt done anything worth mention for 10+years.

In the five years Lavin has been here we have won 11 games against this group of schools;
Cuse, Duke, nova, gtown, uconn, marquette

In the five years previous to lavin we had 5 combined wins.

Trust me im far from a lavin lover but he hasn't failed here imo. Due to his instant success, the expectations just rose too high. This group he has had now has improved their record every year. Maybe the volatile feel of the program was more a function of starting from scratch and maybe this next cycle will improve.

Gets to the tourney this year then no way he gets canned.

At the end of the day, the people who are paying him are the ultimately the ones who decide if he has succeeded or failed here. I have said all along, and I continue to say, that he should neither be fired nor extended this year, regardless of what happens. Lets see how we finish out the year and what kind of team he puts on the floor next year. There's really no need to rush that decision at this point. But for cryin out loud can we please stop comparing Lavin's tenure here to that of his predecessor? Norm is not the gage by which most reasonable SJU fans wish to judge Lavin. Only the apologists wish to do that.

I have to say that saying that we should not compare Lavin's tenure to Norm's is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. Who do you want to compare Lavin's tenure to? Coach K? Jim Calhoun? Jimmy Boeheim? Of course it's fair to compare Lavin's tenure to Norm's! For all the obvious reasons. They both coached here is the most blatant one. It's only the Lavin haters who do not want to do that, because when you do compare Lavin's tenure to Norm's the differences are glaring. And in Lavin's favor.

Compare t to Jarvis' tenure too then:

Jarvis in five seasons:
1 Big East Championship, 1 Elite 8, 3 NCAAs, 1 NIT Championship
6-4 in BE Tourney
4-3 in NCAAs
5-0 in NIT
Total Postseason Record: 15-7

Lavin in almost five seasons:
ZERO Big East Titles, 1 NCAA Tournament, 2 NITS
1-4 in BE Tourney
1-2 in NIT
0-1 NCAAs
Total Postseason Record: 2-7

Only bringing up Jarvis because he was run out of town with a resume much better than "Lav" has amassed

You can all continue your mob mentality and start attacking me now.

I've always maintained, to jeers, is that as unlikeable as Jarvis was, and the fact that he self-destructed after failing to get the deal he wanted out of Michael Jordan in the NBA, that he had success here. He didn't start off badly, he just ended horribly. He deserves every negative commentary except that he had coaching ability and won here.

I'm with you, and furthermore he was not the horrible recruiter that some have made him out to be.

 

[monte]

Buffalo's rpi is 40 right behind STJ at 39.

and.....are you suggesting that UB is just as good as us and that Bobby Hurley is a better coach then Lav? I think its all ridiculous and again, lets wait until the season is over before anyone fires the guy. One question though, if anyone asked you if you'd be happy with the Johnnies at 19-9 with 3 games remaining before the BE tourney at the start of the season, I bet MOST of us would say sure. Anything can happen in the Dance and we will be there! These kids are right there, lets support the team and LAV now, you have all off season to tear down any walls.
Go Johnnies!!!!!

At the start of the season, the only thing any fan was willing to accept was at least a win or two in the NCAA's. One bid and 0 wins every four years is not acceptable. There is a very strong chance that next year's class will be underwhelming. Unless Lav performs an 11th hour miracle (and why he only has two commits so far is mind-boggling), there is a very good chance SJU will miss the NCAA's the next couple of years.

Dom's game has grown beautifully, and I wish the seniors all the best. But don't confuse this recent streak for anything close to a sustainable program.

Well put. I don't want to take away anything from the players on the court...I love the energy we've been seeing, and the emergence of Dom and Jordan. I would love to see this team not only make the tournament, but win at least one game. They deserve that feeling of accomplishment. Lav's body of work has not assured him of anything. His top accomplishments are a few scattered win streaks like the one we are in now. Our current win streak includes Xavier, Depaul, Seton Hall and Creighton. Last years Feb win streak included similar teams, but with one marquee win against #12 Creighton. One Big East Tournament Win, One NIT win, in four years. That's his 2 million a year resume. That's simply not good enough.

Dont chalk him up as nothing either. 1 tourney, 2 nits in 4 years at school who hasnt done anything worth mention for 10+years.

In the five years Lavin has been here we have won 11 games against this group of schools;
Cuse, Duke, nova, gtown, uconn, marquette

In the five years previous to lavin we had 5 combined wins.

Trust me im far from a lavin lover but he hasn't failed here imo. Due to his instant success, the expectations just rose too high. This group he has had now has improved their record every year. Maybe the volatile feel of the program was more a function of starting from scratch and maybe this next cycle will improve.

Gets to the tourney this year then no way he gets canned.

At the end of the day, the people who are paying him are the ultimately the ones who decide if he has succeeded or failed here. I have said all along, and I continue to say, that he should neither be fired nor extended this year, regardless of what happens. Lets see how we finish out the year and what kind of team he puts on the floor next year. There's really no need to rush that decision at this point. But for cryin out loud can we please stop comparing Lavin's tenure here to that of his predecessor? Norm is not the gage by which most reasonable SJU fans wish to judge Lavin. Only the apologists wish to do that.

I have to say that saying that we should not compare Lavin's tenure to Norm's is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. Who do you want to compare Lavin's tenure to? Coach K? Jim Calhoun? Jimmy Boeheim? Of course it's fair to compare Lavin's tenure to Norm's! For all the obvious reasons. They both coached here is the most blatant one. It's only the Lavin haters who do not want to do that, because when you do compare Lavin's tenure to Norm's the differences are glaring. And in Lavin's favor.

By that logic, if Lavin makes the tourney once in 6 years than he's a rousing success. Because, after all, that's good compared to what Norm did. I completely fail to see your line of reasoning, but whatever.
PS Call me a hater if you want, frankly I don't rats rear end, but I have not been one of those calling for Lavin's head.

Couldn't disagree more that if Lavin makes the tourney once in six years than he's a rousing success. I never said that. My point is that if you don't compare coaches of one program to each other, than who do you compare them to? And Avon made a good point. Jarvis clearly has better stats than Lavin. Cannot argue the numbers. But all that went out the window when he caused all our problems.

My reference to the Lavin haters, and we all know who they are, is just an emotional response to them calling me an apologist because I don't want to make a coaching change right now. That is all.

I did not call you an apologist, nor do I want a coaching change right now. I just don't see how it makes any sense at all to compare Lavin to the worst coach in the history of our storied program just because they both coached here. IMO the bar should be set at us being an NCAA tourney team most years(7 or 8 out of 10). As I said, I am not advocating a coaching change right now, but I am still highly doubtful that Lavin will be able to deliver those kind of realistic results over the long haul. I hope to be proven completely wrong.

 

[Jack Williams]

IMO if we make the tournament and win a game I'd be fine with seeing what Lavin can do the next few years. The class incoming is far from done. Chalking up next season as doomsday may be premature and I say that because Jordan and obekpa have both looked like they have bought into the team which makes me think Lav may lock them up.

Amar has improved and we will have a hopefully (fingers crossed) somewhat fit Adonis. On top of that we have two guards who I like and we are still involved with recruits.

I don't really like Lavin that much in terms of coaching ability, but the names thrown out on this thread as possible replacements have really made me change my mind on canning Lavin. No one to get excited about. Also grouped with the fact that we are in the middle of a good winning streak probably changes my mind as well. My emotions on Lavin seemingly shift game to game.

 

[we are sju]

Mahoney and Jarvis are the only STJ coaches in my lifetime who left the program in worse shape than it was when they got there. By that token I'll say Lavin is marginally more successful than Jarvis, plus Jarvis trended down throughout his tenure with a slight reprieve riding the back of Marcus Hatten. Have I ever told you how I blame Marcus Hatten for the downfall of STJ's to this extent?

Did you like the Elite 8 team?
Nothing that happened after that changes how you felt watching that and if you say it does you are kidding yourself.

I found myself thinking, imagine if Fran was still here how good these guys would be!

PS - I've cared for every girl after the first time. Not sure I cared for any of them as much down the line, except my wife of course.

With Fran at most they could have only been 3 games better. At worst.....

For the record I liked Fran, but I did know a player on his team and accordingly to him they all hated Fran. Believe it or not from what I have also been told Jarvis players liked him?

My only point in defending against the villification of Jarvis is I really liked the Elite 8 team. I can't get past that.

Loved that team too. In fact I pretty much love every STJ team. That's why I spend much of my free time on this board. Doesn't make me oblivious to the fact that it was all downhill from there nor forget that the most creative offense Jarvis could come up with once the Riverside guys were done running their own show was the Globetrotter weave followed by a Cook or Hatten heave with .5 left on the shot clock. One thing I always gave Jarvis was he could coach some defense though.

Just to be clear, I do not think Jarvis was a great coach. That was a great team and he was smart enough to let them play. He was the coach of the team, so for that I do not look back on him the negative way most on here do.

 

[Section3]

Buffalo's rpi is 40 right behind STJ at 39.

and.....are you suggesting that UB is just as good as us and that Bobby Hurley is a better coach then Lav? I think its all ridiculous and again, lets wait until the season is over before anyone fires the guy. One question though, if anyone asked you if you'd be happy with the Johnnies at 19-9 with 3 games remaining before the BE tourney at the start of the season, I bet MOST of us would say sure. Anything can happen in the Dance and we will be there! These kids are right there, lets support the team and LAV now, you have all off season to tear down any walls.
Go Johnnies!!!!!

At the start of the season, the only thing any fan was willing to accept was at least a win or two in the NCAA's. One bid and 0 wins every four years is not acceptable. There is a very strong chance that next year's class will be underwhelming. Unless Lav performs an 11th hour miracle (and why he only has two commits so far is mind-boggling), there is a very good chance SJU will miss the NCAA's the next couple of years.

Dom's game has grown beautifully, and I wish the seniors all the best. But don't confuse this recent streak for anything close to a sustainable program.

Well put. I don't want to take away anything from the players on the court...I love the energy we've been seeing, and the emergence of Dom and Jordan. I would love to see this team not only make the tournament, but win at least one game. They deserve that feeling of accomplishment. Lav's body of work has not assured him of anything. His top accomplishments are a few scattered win streaks like the one we are in now. Our current win streak includes Xavier, Depaul, Seton Hall and Creighton. Last years Feb win streak included similar teams, but with one marquee win against #12 Creighton. One Big East Tournament Win, One NIT win, in four years. That's his 2 million a year resume. That's simply not good enough.

Dont chalk him up as nothing either. 1 tourney, 2 nits in 4 years at school who hasnt done anything worth mention for 10+years.

In the five years Lavin has been here we have won 11 games against this group of schools;
Cuse, Duke, nova, gtown, uconn, marquette

In the five years previous to lavin we had 5 combined wins.

Trust me im far from a lavin lover but he hasn't failed here imo. Due to his instant success, the expectations just rose too high. This group he has had now has improved their record every year. Maybe the volatile feel of the program was more a function of starting from scratch and maybe this next cycle will improve.

Gets to the tourney this year then no way he gets canned.

At the end of the day, the people who are paying him are the ultimately the ones who decide if he has succeeded or failed here. I have said all along, and I continue to say, that he should neither be fired nor extended this year, regardless of what happens. Lets see how we finish out the year and what kind of team he puts on the floor next year. There's really no need to rush that decision at this point. But for cryin out loud can we please stop comparing Lavin's tenure here to that of his predecessor? Norm is not the gage by which most reasonable SJU fans wish to judge Lavin. Only the apologists wish to do that.

I have to say that saying that we should not compare Lavin's tenure to Norm's is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. Who do you want to compare Lavin's tenure to? Coach K? Jim Calhoun? Jimmy Boeheim? Of course it's fair to compare Lavin's tenure to Norm's! For all the obvious reasons. They both coached here is the most blatant one. It's only the Lavin haters who do not want to do that, because when you do compare Lavin's tenure to Norm's the differences are glaring. And in Lavin's favor.

Compare t to Jarvis' tenure too then:

Jarvis in five seasons:
1 Big East Championship, 1 Elite 8, 3 NCAAs, 1 NIT Championship
6-4 in BE Tourney
4-3 in NCAAs
5-0 in NIT
Total Postseason Record: 15-7

Lavin in almost five seasons:
ZERO Big East Titles, 1 NCAA Tournament, 2 NITS
1-4 in BE Tourney
1-2 in NIT
0-1 NCAAs
Total Postseason Record: 2-7

Only bringing up Jarvis because he was run out of town with a resume much better than "Lav" has amassed

You can all continue your mob mentality and start attacking me now.

Using relay race analogy, Jarvis was handed the baton by Usain Bolt...Lavin was handed the baton by Fat Albert...big difference on what was inherited - both in terms of the immediate and long term future

 

[redfan259999888]

Everyone know my position on Lavins future, make the ncaa and win atleast 1 game. Plus, a top recruiting class just so there's promise for the future with Lavin.

Now with that said, could the mods put this thread on lock down, atleast until after the seniors biggest game of their lives.
WTF are we talking "next coach", with what's at stake on Saturday?

 

[JohnnyFan]

Everyone know my position on Lavins future, make the ncaa and win atleast 1 game. Plus, a top recruiting class just so there's promise for the future with Lavin.

Now with that said, could the mods put this thread on lock down, atleast until after the seniors biggest game of their lives.
WTF are we talking "next coach", with what's at stake on Saturday?

It is a college basketball message board. Fans are going to post their feelings about the head coach. It happens on message boards for every team. This is exactly the forum to express opinions.