Mount St. Mary's, Wed. Dec. 5, 6:30p, FS-2 / 970 WNYM

[quote="we are sju" post=306703][quote="fordham96" post=306687][quote="we are sju" post=306685][quote="fordham96" post=306684][quote="Class of 72" post=306669][quote="thetux1" post=306668]We dropped 38 spots in the RPI playing this game which was 100 times more difficult than it should have been. Everyone is complaining about closing out on 3 point shooters but damn we could use a rim protector. Thank you Tariq Owens[/quote]

The degree of difficulty in winning a game against a vastly inferior opponent takes a toll. Other than being undefeated the press has not been kind to this team. When your tallest "active" player is a 6'7 small forward and your bench consists entirely of THREE guards who are very average players expect very little positive outlooks regardless of opponent.
That ONE injury causes all this angst reflects on how our roster gets jerry-rigged every season.
.[/quote]

But I was told most good teams only play 8-9 guys even when they use all 13 scholarships. So you are saying that good programs should make sure when they use those scholarships they always should have 10-11 solid players that you can use just in case an injury or one kid starts to falter at the expense of another you always have a good pool to pick those 8-9 core kids from. What a concept....[/quote]

Yeah a concept no one uses
Our problem is not that we only play 7 or 8.
The problem is only one of those guys is over 6-7 and our current 6th and 7th men are not that good. No problem playing 8 if you have 8 solid guys. We have 5 solid guys. Feel free to Bash Mullin on that.[/quote]

First off I don't know what you mean by we. I don't pretend to be a part of the team.

And that was my entire point. If you have 13 scholarship players you better have at least 10 that are ready to contribute and then from that you pick a rotation. That ALWAYS was my point. That is why I stressed CONSTANTLY they are using all 13 scholarships and are essentially getting NOTHING against very WEAK competition out of 5 spots right now and I would throw Trimble in there to be quite honest as maybe the 6th man giving them little to nothing, You cannot run a big time program and get so little out of the middle to back end of a full 13 man program. It won't work. And this is not year 2 or year 3 this is year 4. The recruiting has been poor period. That was also my larger point and I stand by both points now more than ever. I don't care if they are 8-0, I think you agree with me on that point. 8-0 against this schedule does not prove anything with regards to this recruiting strategy.[/quote]

You are on a ST John's fan forum even if you aren't much of a fan. So your stance on 'WE" thing is pretty stupid. In fact fans chant "WE ARE ST JOHN'S" at games. I think if you ever go to a game you should take a stand on that one. Tell a bunch of people that They are not ST John's.
As far as an actual point that you tried to make I happen to agree. This roster does not have 8-10 guys that should be playing on a BE rotation on a good team. Jury out on Keita but currently have 5 guys. Now one of the 5 is great, 2 very good and 2 very solid.[/quote]

I have no idea what this means nor do I understand what NOT using the term WE somehow is a stance on your fandom. But congratulations. My point stands.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=306708][quote="we are sju" post=306703][quote="fordham96" post=306687][quote="we are sju" post=306685][quote="fordham96" post=306684][quote="Class of 72" post=306669][quote="thetux1" post=306668]We dropped 38 spots in the RPI playing this game which was 100 times more difficult than it should have been. Everyone is complaining about closing out on 3 point shooters but damn we could use a rim protector. Thank you Tariq Owens[/quote]

The degree of difficulty in winning a game against a vastly inferior opponent takes a toll. Other than being undefeated the press has not been kind to this team. When your tallest "active" player is a 6'7 small forward and your bench consists entirely of THREE guards who are very average players expect very little positive outlooks regardless of opponent.
That ONE injury causes all this angst reflects on how our roster gets jerry-rigged every season.
.[/quote]

But I was told most good teams only play 8-9 guys even when they use all 13 scholarships. So you are saying that good programs should make sure when they use those scholarships they always should have 10-11 solid players that you can use just in case an injury or one kid starts to falter at the expense of another you always have a good pool to pick those 8-9 core kids from. What a concept....[/quote]

Yeah a concept no one uses
Our problem is not that we only play 7 or 8.
The problem is only one of those guys is over 6-7 and our current 6th and 7th men are not that good. No problem playing 8 if you have 8 solid guys. We have 5 solid guys. Feel free to Bash Mullin on that.[/quote]

First off I don't know what you mean by we. I don't pretend to be a part of the team.

And that was my entire point. If you have 13 scholarship players you better have at least 10 that are ready to contribute and then from that you pick a rotation. That ALWAYS was my point. That is why I stressed CONSTANTLY they are using all 13 scholarships and are essentially getting NOTHING against very WEAK competition out of 5 spots right now and I would throw Trimble in there to be quite honest as maybe the 6th man giving them little to nothing, You cannot run a big time program and get so little out of the middle to back end of a full 13 man program. It won't work. And this is not year 2 or year 3 this is year 4. The recruiting has been poor period. That was also my larger point and I stand by both points now more than ever. I don't care if they are 8-0, I think you agree with me on that point. 8-0 against this schedule does not prove anything with regards to this recruiting strategy.[/quote]

You are on a ST John's fan forum even if you aren't much of a fan. So your stance on 'WE" thing is pretty stupid. In fact fans chant "WE ARE ST JOHN'S" at games. I think if you ever go to a game you should take a stand on that one. Tell a bunch of people that They are not ST John's.
As far as an actual point that you tried to make I happen to agree. This roster does not have 8-10 guys that should be playing on a BE rotation on a good team. Jury out on Keita but currently have 5 guys. Now one of the 5 is great, 2 very good and 2 very solid.[/quote]

I have no idea what this means nor do I understand what NOT using the term WE somehow is a stance on your fandom. But congratulations. My point stands.[/quote]

From the time people started rooting for teams fans refer to the team as "we". In other news that you might have missed water is wet. Your anti- we stance is just strange. Which is ok. I have peccadilloes as well. Things that bother me about accepted behavior. The difference is I don't try to preach them in snarky ways.
 
Weare sju wrote "Jury out on Keita but currently have 5 guys. Now one of the 5 is great, 2 very good and 2 very solid."

So, you are saying the Wonder Five we are not and the Fab Five is a pipe dream. I guess that's why we will be content with an NCAA tournament invitation and winning ONE game.
In reality, of the 5 players you categorized it seems every game a couple of them have below par games and the 6th or 7th man do not make up for the talent short fall after they are substituted. They all can shoot like Mikey Dixon but the all-around game is missing. Hopefully the players will improve in practices but some God given talent is missing and you only find that by tireless recruiting. I find it ironic that fans defend Mullin for not utilizing Josh Roberts and even suggesting he or Williams red shirt. Players in their ranked player position categories are getting extended minutes in other programs. I don't get the impression Mullin and staff are into long term player development given the record number of players who have transferred out in favor of transfers in. If that's the case, just offer the ships to some grad transfers or jucos.
 
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[quote="Class of 72" post=306716]Weare sju wrote "Jury out on Keita but currently have 5 guys. Now one of the 5 is great, 2 very good and 2 very solid."

So, you are saying the Wonder Five we are not and the Fab Five is a pipe dream. I guess that's why we will be content with an NCAA tournament invitation and winning ONE game.
In reality, of the 5 players you categorized it seems every game a couple of them have below par games and the 6th or 7th man do not make up for the talent short fall after they are substituted. They all can shoot like Mikey Dixon but the all-around game is missing. Hopefully the players will improve in practices but some God given talent is missing and you only find that by tireless recruiting. I find it ironic that fans defend Mullin for not utilizing Josh Roberts and even suggesting he or Williams red shirt. Players in their ranked player position categories are getting extended minutes in other programs. I don't get the impression Mullin and staff are into long term player development given the record number of players who have transferred out in favor of transfers in. If that's the case, just offer the ships to some grad transfers or jucos.[/quote]

See I don't find your complaints as tiresome as I do others. But seriously what coach have you liked? And you are a fan since at least since 72 and I am sure before. I go back to Mullin's frosh season as a kid. So in what universe is making the NCAA tourney not a successful season for us?
 
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One final note I wanted to add:

While I'm glad we won, hopefully in the future we limit these games against abysmal opponents. Especially for an experienced team like us, they don't help us or our schedule. The opposing teams are always extra amped up since they have no expectations to win or even be competitive. Kind of like us last year when we played Duke/Nova, or Syracuse during Mullin's first two years.
 
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This terribly soft schedule concocted by who knows who seems to have backfired. The wins are there but the lack of effort is obvious. As SJC posted when did you ever see a player as Ponds did last night pass up a layup a couple of times to pass the ball out to the corner when the game was still in doubt?
Is the team so over confident? Hopefully MSG will bring out the best in them although the schedule maker has come up with a lousy double header so the atmosphere will probably be bad.
 
[quote="we are sju" post=306713][quote="fordham96" post=306708][quote="we are sju" post=306703][quote="fordham96" post=306687][quote="we are sju" post=306685][quote="fordham96" post=306684][quote="Class of 72" post=306669][quote="thetux1" post=306668]We dropped 38 spots in the RPI playing this game which was 100 times more difficult than it should have been. Everyone is complaining about closing out on 3 point shooters but damn we could use a rim protector. Thank you Tariq Owens[/quote]

The degree of difficulty in winning a game against a vastly inferior opponent takes a toll. Other than being undefeated the press has not been kind to this team. When your tallest "active" player is a 6'7 small forward and your bench consists entirely of THREE guards who are very average players expect very little positive outlooks regardless of opponent.
That ONE injury causes all this angst reflects on how our roster gets jerry-rigged every season.
.[/quote]

But I was told most good teams only play 8-9 guys even when they use all 13 scholarships. So you are saying that good programs should make sure when they use those scholarships they always should have 10-11 solid players that you can use just in case an injury or one kid starts to falter at the expense of another you always have a good pool to pick those 8-9 core kids from. What a concept....[/quote]

Yeah a concept no one uses
Our problem is not that we only play 7 or 8.
The problem is only one of those guys is over 6-7 and our current 6th and 7th men are not that good. No problem playing 8 if you have 8 solid guys. We have 5 solid guys. Feel free to Bash Mullin on that.[/quote]

First off I don't know what you mean by we. I don't pretend to be a part of the team.

And that was my entire point. If you have 13 scholarship players you better have at least 10 that are ready to contribute and then from that you pick a rotation. That ALWAYS was my point. That is why I stressed CONSTANTLY they are using all 13 scholarships and are essentially getting NOTHING against very WEAK competition out of 5 spots right now and I would throw Trimble in there to be quite honest as maybe the 6th man giving them little to nothing, You cannot run a big time program and get so little out of the middle to back end of a full 13 man program. It won't work. And this is not year 2 or year 3 this is year 4. The recruiting has been poor period. That was also my larger point and I stand by both points now more than ever. I don't care if they are 8-0, I think you agree with me on that point. 8-0 against this schedule does not prove anything with regards to this recruiting strategy.[/quote]

You are on a ST John's fan forum even if you aren't much of a fan. So your stance on 'WE" thing is pretty stupid. In fact fans chant "WE ARE ST JOHN'S" at games. I think if you ever go to a game you should take a stand on that one. Tell a bunch of people that They are not ST John's.
As far as an actual point that you tried to make I happen to agree. This roster does not have 8-10 guys that should be playing on a BE rotation on a good team. Jury out on Keita but currently have 5 guys. Now one of the 5 is great, 2 very good and 2 very solid.[/quote]

I have no idea what this means nor do I understand what NOT using the term WE somehow is a stance on your fandom. But congratulations. My point stands.[/quote]

From the time people started rooting for teams fans refer to the team as "we". In other news that you might have missed water is wet. Your anti- we stance is just strange. Which is ok. I have peccadilloes as well. Things that bother me about accepted behavior. The difference is I don't try to preach them in snarky ways.[/quote] Count me in the WE category
 
Are we really arguing about why our rosters aren't as well put together as Duke and Nova? Not only have both of those teams won championships, but they won in the last 5-6 years. That will always make recruiting easier.

We haven't even won a tournament game in years and recruiting is not as easy for us. So our rosters are not as perfect and don't have a nice bow on top. You can't just snap your fingers and get excellence, it has to be built up by consistent and consecutive seasons with a lot of winning be done. These HS recruits don't owe us shit because we were good in the 80s. Matter of fact, i can promise they don't even know or care.
 
[quote="Jack Williams" post=306728]Are we really arguing about why our rosters aren't as well put together as Duke and Nova? Not only have both of those teams won championships, but they won in the last 5-6 years. That will always make recruiting easier.

We haven't even won a tournament game in years and recruiting is not as easy for us. So our rosters are not as perfect and don't have a nice bow on top. You can't just snap your fingers and get excellence, it has to be built up by consistent and consecutive seasons with a lot of winning be done. These HS recruits don't owe us shit because we were good in the 80s. Matter of fact, i can promise they don't even know or care.[/quote]

See I can accept the roster imbalance gripe. But yes comparing us to very successful programs in how they roster build is unfair. I for one understand that we won't have a cheeseburger all American as our 7th man just waiting around waiting to contribute. But I do feel we could have gotten a 6-8 guy that can play 10-12 mins that would be better than Dixon or Trimble. I watch some of these mid major teams and they seem to find those guys. Again going back to Norm and every coach since it seems we are just trying to find talent and then find ourselves scrambling to put together the back end of the roster.
 
[quote="Jack Williams" post=306728]Are we really arguing about why our rosters aren't as well put together as Duke and Nova? Not only have both of those teams won championships, but they won in the last 5-6 years. That will always make recruiting easier.

We haven't even won a tournament game in years and recruiting is not as easy for us. So our rosters are not as perfect and don't have a nice bow on top. You can't just snap your fingers and get excellence, it has to be built up by consistent and consecutive seasons with a lot of winning be done. These HS recruits don't owe us shit because we were good in the 80s. Matter of fact, i can promise they don't even know or care.[/quote]

Completely agree. That was my point. Fordham96 claimed that we should have 10 ready to play scholarship guys. It doesn't work like that, even with the big programs, there are not 10 "ready to play" guys. And by ready to play I mean start a game and make waves in it. Part of college bball is the fact that these young kids are not ready to play and develop throughout the year(s).
 
[quote="Chris7" post=306746][quote="Jack Williams" post=306728]Are we really arguing about why our rosters aren't as well put together as Duke and Nova? Not only have both of those teams won championships, but they won in the last 5-6 years. That will always make recruiting easier.

We haven't even won a tournament game in years and recruiting is not as easy for us. So our rosters are not as perfect and don't have a nice bow on top. You can't just snap your fingers and get excellence, it has to be built up by consistent and consecutive seasons with a lot of winning be done. These HS recruits don't owe us shit because we were good in the 80s. Matter of fact, i can promise they don't even know or care.[/quote]

Completely agree. That was my point. Fordham96 claimed that we should have 10 ready to play scholarship guys. It doesn't work like that, even with the big programs, there are not 10 "ready to play" guys. And by ready to play I mean start a game and make waves in it. Part of college bball is the fact that these young kids are not ready to play and develop throughout the year(s).[/quote]
A player being ready to play does not have to equate to a starter making waves it just means a player that can contribute to what the team needs.
 
Temple put up a good battle last night fur 35 minutes vs Nova but, ran out of gas in the last 5 . Nova got 15 from Samuel, a sophomore who barely played last year and Cremo , a 5 th year player had 11. Their 26 helped the Cats avoid another upset .,plus Temple sort of unraveled down the stretch with too much 1 on 1 BB . Booth , Passchal and Gillespie we’re off last night and the Cats needed the guys off the Bench to pick it up . They did . But, Nova is only using 7-8 guys in the rotation . Dixon didn’t get many minutes last night nor score much but, he has and can be a contributor off the Bench . Trimble hasn’t found his shot yet but, he will . When Keita comes back we will have a 8 man rotation too. Who knows what’s up with Quinerly and Wright but, the kid isn’t going to win that Battle .
 
[quote="Jack Williams" post=306602]There are two things I advise a lot of people on this board should do.

1) Accept we are not well coached and probably never will be - it makes the kool aid go down a lot easier. Just accept it guys. All I've seen in my life is Roberts, Lavin, and Mullin coached teams, I don't even know what a well coached st johns team looks like. Just accept it and enjoy life a little bit. Which brings me to my next point

2) Enjoy the little things - We are 8-0 right now and one of the last 11 undefeated teams in Division 1 college basketball. This is St. John's, we are not a consistently great program, we haven't been for a long, long time. I understand and respect people sharing their views and the negatives they see out on the court. But come on guys. We have won every game we have played so far. Even if it comes crashing down in Big East play like soooooooo many of you are predicting, can we please just not have a "sky is falling" attitude right now? On December 29th when Seton Hall kicks our teeth in by 35 points, then we can all collectively lose our shit together. :)

I just read a post from guiness saying I hate to say it but we are probably a one and done in the tournament. We will get into the NCAA and maybe win one and thats it. Okay? You guys do realize that would be the most successful St. John's basketball season in (checks notes), EIGHTEEN YEARS.

I understand my perspective is different because a lot of you were able to actually see the glory days so you hold this program to that esteem. But Mike Zaun, you are like 26 right? How long have you been following this team? Surely you've seen the last 15 years of our team right?

This is my main issue with the doom and gloom. A lot of people think we have a good roster so the expectations are at a level that the program hasn't even delivered on such George W was serving his first term.

We were what, 4-14 in the Big East last year? And we added Mustapha and LJ and lost Bashir. Clear improvement, but why are we world beaters now? We are a good team and nothing more. I hope you can enjoy the wins when they do come. Have a great night[/quote]

Jack, I'm pretty sure "one and done" means play one game and lose, not win one then done.

"I understand my perspective is different because a lot of you were able to actually see the glory days so you hold this program to that esteem."

How could those days be considered the "glory years", we didn't win a championship back then. did we have some great teams in those those? Shit yeah we did. If only Villanova played G-Town in the F4 and we played whoever it was Nova played, I'm thinking we would have that championship.
But that's the way it goes.
 
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We moved up three spots to #29 in the NET after the weakest game of the year with the VCU win and Cal loss.

It seems like a very flawed metric and could hurt us in a competitive Big East.
 
[quote="rawdognyc" post=306683][quote="Windy City Johnny Fan" post=306674][quote="rawdognyc" post=306671][quote="Mike Zaun" post=306661][quote="rawdognyc" post=306652][quote="Mike Zaun" post=306578]What do you say to a huge jacked 6'4 guy who is 8-0 fighting midgets but got taken to the last round in almost all of the matches? Would you be confident to put money on him once he starts fighting heavyweights his size?

8-0 is nice but the team is a mess right now. Mullin is there talking to the team as if they're up 30. I'm not acting like I have all the answers because I don't but that's not my job and to act like coaching is not a major major issue is nuts at this point. Yes of course he tells them to close out and blah blah blah, but whatever IT is, it's not working. This is a team of absolute stud players who are upperclassmen and Mullin is well into year 4. Enough is enough. I don't think we are Kansas. Marist would kill these guys.[/quote]

Your analogies are always the worst. St. Johns is more like a veteran boxer that has had a mediocre career up to date. Finally that boxer has won eight fights in a row against younger boxers who are doing all they can to knock this veteran boxer out, but somehow the veteran finds whatever means possible to win the fight. Sometimes in a very ugly fashion. This veteran boxer is hoping with more training that he will be able to win some of his difficult fights that he has coming up.

If we were Duke, Kentucky, Kansas etc. I could somewhat understand your analogy, but again at that point it's still idiotic. These teams are playing other D1 teams. Any team can beat any other team on any given night. That's proven fact. Your analogy is so far fetched that it would never happen. That's not how analogies work.[/quote]

Perhaps my analogy was exaggerated a bit, partly for emphasis. However, the difference between this St. John's team and the MSM team last night was absolutely supposed to be David vs. Goliath. If it was VCU then I take your point. We're still better than VCU but at least they aren't complete bums.

SJ:
-NET Ranking: 32
-4 and 5 star veteran players
-Home court
-NCAA expectation
-Major conference team

Mount:
-NET Ranking: 348 (out of 353)
-2 star players maybe a 3 star if they're lucky, very young and inexperienced
-Just took a 4.5 hr bus ride away game
-Expected to finish last in an awful low major conference
-Low major team

Just look at the facts. This was a real game until the final 4 or 5 minutes as 25 point favorites. Don't get angry at the fans who see the cracks in the foundation. Just because the foundation is still standing with cracks doesn't mean you should disregard the cracks everywhere. The fact that you and some others would even dare to imply that we shouldn't expect to be much better than Mount right now is absolute absurdity. If we can't expect to blowout one of the worst teams in America at home in a year where people were saying we had the most talent since our Elite 8 run, then do we even have any expectations anymore? Again, the score is misleading stop looking at the final score and acting like we had a 14 pt cushion all game. It was single digits dangerously late. If you can't seriously question coaching at this point, you never will. Jack, I respect your POV and maybe I'm just getting nervous over nothing and we turn it around suddenly. But there's an obvious pattern here. Even one of my friends who doesn't follow the team has been paying attention this year and he says "every game is the same" and he asks "why can't St. John's kill these guys? Don't they suck?". That's general consensus outside of Redmen.com and it's the perspective I hold as well.[/quote]

See. That's the misconception that you and the others that think like you have any about those of us that choose to stay positive and fully enjoy being 8-0. We see the obvious faults that you and the others point out. It's pretty clear that we don't close out well on the 3 point shooter. That's because we are forced to typically have 2 guys cover their big in the middle. That's because of the other obvious problem, we don't have a big right now. We all hope that once Keita comes back, he'll help to correct that issue. So like last night, when teams are hot from 3, they can stay in a game with us. When they are shooting poorly like Rutgers did, we blow them out. It's really not that difficult to understand. It will be slot easier to press more and cover the paint and 3 point shooters more once our big is back. Yes, we're fully aware that it would've been nice to have a capable back up big just in case something happened to Keita like it did. However even without our big we still are at 8-0. So we choose to look at that. Instead of repeating the same crap over and over again about our weaknesses..[/quote]

You make fair points. But you have to make a bunch of assumptions to take the view that sliding Keita back into our lineup is going to fix all - or even many - of the issues. I mean nobody really knows what he is at this point even when healthy. Nothing to do but wait and see though. To me, the one issue that we should be able to control 100% is our intensity - and while I've seen it in various stretches throughout various games, aside from the Rutgers game, i haven't seen it throughout a 40 minute game.[/quote]

Intensity! That's where I see the problem with playing cupcakes is that these guys feel they can beat these teams on talent alone. Which is true. They can and they have. However when they get ramped up for a game, it's like watching a totally different team. Totally agree with you there. It's like they almost don't want to exert themselves too much against the interior opponent until they see the game is too close or even fall behind. Then they up their intensity and use full court pressure and the game changes. With that being said, it's hard to go full throttle all game when you're only going 7 deep. I'd like to see more Williams and Roberts in these games even when it's not a blow out. I would presume at the very least their talent level is at least on par with these low d1 schools. Forget Earlington in my opinion. He'll be the first player ever to shatter a backboard with a 3 point shot.[/quote]

" it's hard to go full throttle all game when you're only going 7 deep."

To me it always seemed that the 98-99 team always every game, weren't they 7 deep?
Maybe get that conditioning coach back?
 
[quote="we are sju" post=306721][quote="Class of 72" post=306716]Weare sju wrote "Jury out on Keita but currently have 5 guys. Now one of the 5 is great, 2 very good and 2 very solid."

So, you are saying the Wonder Five we are not and the Fab Five is a pipe dream. I guess that's why we will be content with an NCAA tournament invitation and winning ONE game.
In reality, of the 5 players you categorized it seems every game a couple of them have below par games and the 6th or 7th man do not make up for the talent short fall after they are substituted. They all can shoot like Mikey Dixon but the all-around game is missing. Hopefully the players will improve in practices but some God given talent is missing and you only find that by tireless recruiting. I find it ironic that fans defend Mullin for not utilizing Josh Roberts and even suggesting he or Williams red shirt. Players in their ranked player position categories are getting extended minutes in other programs. I don't get the impression Mullin and staff are into long term player development given the record number of players who have transferred out in favor of transfers in. If that's the case, just offer the ships to some grad transfers or jucos.[/quote]

See I don't find your complaints as tiresome as I do others. But seriously what coach have you liked? And you are a fan since at least since 72 and I am sure before. I go back to Mullin's frosh season as a kid. So in what universe is making the NCAA tourney not a successful season for us?[/quote]

What coach have I liked? Start with Joe Lapchick. A gentleman coach. All class. Lou Carnessecca who was usually able to make 5 NY area kids reach the post season every year. Since then the only two coaches worth their salaries were Mike Jarvis and Steve Lavin. Those two coached a total of 10 years and SJ went to post season 8 of the 10 years. 5 NCAA and 3 NITs.
You see Skippy, my universe and which kept me following this now moribund program was a universe where we didn't "HOPE" for a post season invitation but was expected. That's the difference between you 80 's " be happy for little things" fans praising a coach that MAY get his team to post season in year four.
Here is the span of my universe before bad hires and empty promises became the Norm.
NCAA appearances :1967, 1968, 1969, 1973, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993.
 
[quote="Enright" post=306724]This terribly soft schedule concocted by who knows who seems to have backfired. The wins are there but the lack of effort is obvious. As SJC posted when did you ever see a player as Ponds did last night pass up a layup a couple of times to pass the ball out to the corner when the game was still in doubt?
Is the team so over confident? Hopefully MSG will bring out the best in them although the schedule maker has come up with a lousy double header so the atmosphere will probably be bad.[/quote]

Maybe the team feels: "well if we destroy these cupcake everyone will say well we supposed to destroy these cupcakes anyway", so maybe they feel like it's a no win situation. Who knows what they're thinking.
I'd rather the assassin mentality, wipe all teams on the floor, no matter the opponent.
 
These guys either have another gear or it will be a rough Big East season again. I don’t think we find out until January. If there is more to this team they don’t seem willing to “waste” it against these teams. I rather they obliterate everyone and make these games easier to sit through but that does not seem to be in the cards. Hopefully they can play up to the competition as well as they play down to it.

I’ve been fairly consistent about not wanting a bunch of big guys just because they are big but I find it harder and harder to see how they can survive in Confernce unless Keita returns. Teams are driving on SJU at will as they know there is no one who can stop them at the rim. It leads to easy shots both inside and out on kick outs when we react to this and collapse.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=306791][quote="we are sju" post=306721][quote="Class of 72" post=306716]Weare sju wrote "Jury out on Keita but currently have 5 guys. Now one of the 5 is great, 2 very good and 2 very solid."

So, you are saying the Wonder Five we are not and the Fab Five is a pipe dream. I guess that's why we will be content with an NCAA tournament invitation and winning ONE game.
In reality, of the 5 players you categorized it seems every game a couple of them have below par games and the 6th or 7th man do not make up for the talent short fall after they are substituted. They all can shoot like Mikey Dixon but the all-around game is missing. Hopefully the players will improve in practices but some God given talent is missing and you only find that by tireless recruiting. I find it ironic that fans defend Mullin for not utilizing Josh Roberts and even suggesting he or Williams red shirt. Players in their ranked player position categories are getting extended minutes in other programs. I don't get the impression Mullin and staff are into long term player development given the record number of players who have transferred out in favor of transfers in. If that's the case, just offer the ships to some grad transfers or jucos.[/quote]

See I don't find your complaints as tiresome as I do others. But seriously what coach have you liked? And you are a fan since at least since 72 and I am sure before. I go back to Mullin's frosh season as a kid. So in what universe is making the NCAA tourney not a successful season for us?[/quote]

What coach have I liked? Start with Joe Lapchick. A gentleman coach. All class. Lou Carnessecca who was usually able to make 5 NY area kids reach the post season every year. Since then the only two coaches worth their salaries were Mike Jarvis and Steve Lavin. Those two coached a total of 10 years and SJ went to post season 8 of the 10 years. 5 NCAA and 3 NITs.
You see Skippy, my universe and which kept me following this now moribund program was a universe where we didn't "HOPE" for a post season invitation but was expected. That's the difference between you 80 's " be happy for little things" fans praising a coach that MAY get his team to post season in year four.
Here is the span of my universe before bad hires and empty promises became the Norm.
NCAA appearances :1967, 1968, 1969, 1973, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993.[/quote]

As has been mentioned many times around here Louie's subway token recruiting plan would not work in this day and age. And as a kid I would often grumble about Louie's offense so I can't imagine what would have happened to him on one of these.

Artest team was my favorite ST John's team and I do not have any real negative feelings about Jarvis but he is probably the most hated man on these boards. Actually scratch that, the way Jarvis era ended led to Norm so I sort of hold Jarvis responsible for that.

I think Lavin did just enough to earn an extension from which he would have gotten fired a year or two later. All the stuff you heard about him from UCLA were pretty obvious here. Still I was on board keeping him unless we got a clear cut upgrade, Chris Mullin, Walter Berry, Mark Jackson or David Russell. Also don't see people knocking down Lavin's door to hire him.
I also liked Fran but alas the players didn't and Fran I guess was too proud of his manhood to keep it in his pants and got fired.

And speaking of manhood, I played baseball with a kid named Skippy in college. Got drafted by Dodgers, had a smoking hot girlfriend at home and one at school and they knew about each other and were somehow all right with it. And also had third leg of which Fran would probably walk around with out any pants if he had. So I will take Skippy thing as compliment.
 
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