Mount St. Mary's, Wed. Dec. 5, 6:30p, FS-2 / 970 WNYM

[quote="we are sju" post=306797][quote="Class of 72" post=306791][quote="we are sju" post=306721][quote="Class of 72" post=306716]Weare sju wrote "Jury out on Keita but currently have 5 guys. Now one of the 5 is great, 2 very good and 2 very solid."

So, you are saying the Wonder Five we are not and the Fab Five is a pipe dream. I guess that's why we will be content with an NCAA tournament invitation and winning ONE game.
In reality, of the 5 players you categorized it seems every game a couple of them have below par games and the 6th or 7th man do not make up for the talent short fall after they are substituted. They all can shoot like Mikey Dixon but the all-around game is missing. Hopefully the players will improve in practices but some God given talent is missing and you only find that by tireless recruiting. I find it ironic that fans defend Mullin for not utilizing Josh Roberts and even suggesting he or Williams red shirt. Players in their ranked player position categories are getting extended minutes in other programs. I don't get the impression Mullin and staff are into long term player development given the record number of players who have transferred out in favor of transfers in. If that's the case, just offer the ships to some grad transfers or jucos.[/quote]

See I don't find your complaints as tiresome as I do others. But seriously what coach have you liked? And you are a fan since at least since 72 and I am sure before. I go back to Mullin's frosh season as a kid. So in what universe is making the NCAA tourney not a successful season for us?[/quote]

What coach have I liked? Start with Joe Lapchick. A gentleman coach. All class. Lou Carnessecca who was usually able to make 5 NY area kids reach the post season every year. Since then the only two coaches worth their salaries were Mike Jarvis and Steve Lavin. Those two coached a total of 10 years and SJ went to post season 8 of the 10 years. 5 NCAA and 3 NITs.
You see Skippy, my universe and which kept me following this now moribund program was a universe where we didn't "HOPE" for a post season invitation but was expected. That's the difference between you 80 's " be happy for little things" fans praising a coach that MAY get his team to post season in year four.
Here is the span of my universe before bad hires and empty promises became the Norm.
NCAA appearances :1967, 1968, 1969, 1973, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993.[/quote]

As has been mentioned many times around here Louie's subway token recruiting plan would not work in this day and age. And as a kid I would often grumble about Louie's offense so I can't imagine what would have happened to him on one of these.

Artest team was my favorite ST John's team and I do not have any real negative feelings about Jarvis but he is probably the most hated man on these boards. Actually scratch that, the way Jarvis era ended led to Norm so I sort of hold Jarvis responsible for that.

I think Lavin did just enough to earn an extension from which he would have gotten fired a year or two later. All the stuff you heard about him from UCLA were pretty obvious here. Still I was on board keeping him unless we got a clear cut upgrade, Chris Mullin, Walter Berry, Mark Jackson or David Russell. Also don't see people knocking down Lavin's door to hire him.
I also liked Fran but alas the players didn't and Fran I guess was too proud of his manhood to keep it in his pants and got fired.

And speaking of manhood, I played baseball with a kid named Skippy in college. Got drafted by Dodgers, had a smoking hot girlfriend at home and one at school and they knew about each other and were somehow all right with it. And also had third leg which Fran would probably walk around with out any pants if he had. So I will take Skippy thing as compliment.[/quote]

So I'll call you Skippy from now on.:p
Of course I used the term because of your apparent youth.
The point being that out of those 25 years I believe we were perennially relevant and ranked 20 were NCAA years not counting the NIT.
The "time" that success occured is irrelevant to the discusion. Cranky and Crusty Jim Calhoun, Jimmy B, and other older coaches had no problem keeping things rolling. We simply continued to make bad hiring decisions and failing to see the big picture in paying elite coaches before we became associated with undervaluIng coaches' salaries and failing to upgrade our facilities. We were penny wise and pound foolish.
It will be interesting to see what salary Mullin requests in an extension for underperforming on every level of the game.
 
As far as an actual point that you tried to make I happen to agree. This roster does not have 8-10 guys that should be playing on a BE rotation on a good team. Jury out on Keita but currently have 5 guys. Now one of the 5 is great, 2 very good and 2 very solid.[7/quote]

I'd say 6 guys with Dixon, he has played pretty well so far considering his role/minutes. The knock on him has been his defense but the whole team has struggled on that side for the most part. His defense was pretty good at the end of the GT game and I thought he played solid D against VCU also. He is also shooting 50% from 3 through 8 games. Hopefully Keita makes it 7 guys who can at least hold their own in conference play. 7 man rotation should be more than enough we just need to stay healthy.
 
I'm just sick of playing streetball with everyone standing outside the 3 PT line and the defense literally not even having to move their feet to defend us with no sense of urgency. I'm sick of not having several solid bigs with some semblance of a jump hook or soft touch and solid rebounding (like almost every team has) which we knew we needed badly for several years. I get the same feeling I was getting with Lavin...didn't seem to matter what players he had, they always seemed to underachieve. They never passed the eye test. They got a few nice wins here and there usually isolated and Lav put together some solid seasons record wise but had Sweet 16 talent and got knocked out of tournaments immediately. Our next hire has to be the epitome of hunger and passion. They have to make our program their baby. You get that sense with Cooley at PC and Wright at Nova. They have to have an idea of what style they want the team to be and get skilled specific players to fit that. Then they need to stick to their role and make their teammates better. Then the chemistry comes.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=306791][quote="we are sju" post=306721][quote="Class of 72" post=306716]Weare sju wrote "Jury out on Keita but currently have 5 guys. Now one of the 5 is great, 2 very good and 2 very solid."

So, you are saying the Wonder Five we are not and the Fab Five is a pipe dream. I guess that's why we will be content with an NCAA tournament invitation and winning ONE game.
In reality, of the 5 players you categorized it seems every game a couple of them have below par games and the 6th or 7th man do not make up for the talent short fall after they are substituted. They all can shoot like Mikey Dixon but the all-around game is missing. Hopefully the players will improve in practices but some God given talent is missing and you only find that by tireless recruiting. I find it ironic that fans defend Mullin for not utilizing Josh Roberts and even suggesting he or Williams red shirt. Players in their ranked player position categories are getting extended minutes in other programs. I don't get the impression Mullin and staff are into long term player development given the record number of players who have transferred out in favor of transfers in. If that's the case, just offer the ships to some grad transfers or jucos.[/quote]

See I don't find your complaints as tiresome as I do others. But seriously what coach have you liked? And you are a fan since at least since 72 and I am sure before. I go back to Mullin's frosh season as a kid. So in what universe is making the NCAA tourney not a successful season for us?[/quote]

What coach have I liked? Start with Joe Lapchick. A gentleman coach. All class. Lou Carnessecca who was usually able to make 5 NY area kids reach the post season every year. Since then the only two coaches worth their salaries were Mike Jarvis and Steve Lavin. Those two coached a total of 10 years and SJ went to post season 8 of the 10 years. 5 NCAA and 3 NITs.
You see Skippy, my universe and which kept me following this now moribund program was a universe where we didn't "HOPE" for a post season invitation but was expected. That's the difference between you 80 's " be happy for little things" fans praising a coach that MAY get his team to post season in year four.
Here is the span of my universe before bad hires and empty promises became the Norm.
NCAA appearances :1967, 1968, 1969, 1973, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993.[/quote]

I could have sworn you mentioned one time about attending the 1952 national championship game as a teenager?
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=306817]I'm just sick of playing streetball with everyone standing outside the 3 PT line and the defense literally not even having to move their feet to defend us with no sense of urgency. I'm sick of not having several solid bigs with some semblance of a jump hook or soft touch and solid rebounding (like almost every team has) which we knew we needed badly for several years. I get the same feeling I was getting with Lavin...didn't seem to matter what players he had, they always seemed to underachieve. They never passed the eye test. They got a few nice wins here and there usually isolated and Lav put together some solid seasons record wise but had Sweet 16 talent and got knocked out of tournaments immediately. Our next hire has to be the epitome of hunger and passion. They have to make our program their baby. You get that sense with Cooley at PC and Wright at Nova. They have to have an idea of what style they want the team to be and get skilled specific players to fit that. Then they need to stick to their role and make their teammates better. Then the chemistry comes.[/quote]

I think you are just sick and tired of being sick and tired.
 
Have to agree with Mike Zaun re the five guys standing by the three point line passing the ball back and forth until someone throws up a three shows little preparation.
Going up against zone defenses and having no big man inside game is tough but this team's advantage over most opponents is their athleticism. Ponds, Simon, Heron and LJ can all get penetration resulting in better shot selection than the three time after time.
 
Question for Mike Zaun:

What are you going to post if we win the next five games (including the Seton Hall game) by an average of only 3-4 points with a bunch of threes made against us in each game? We would be 13-0 and certainly in the top 25, but will you still be talking about who the next coach should be?
My point is maybe you should wait until we lose a game before firing the coach.
 
[quote="OhioFan" post=306819][quote="Class of 72" post=306791][quote="we are sju" post=306721][quote="Class of 72" post=306716]Weare sju wrote "Jury out on Keita but currently have 5 guys. Now one of the 5 is great, 2 very good and 2 very solid."

So, you are saying the Wonder Five we are not and the Fab Five is a pipe dream. I guess that's why we will be content with an NCAA tournament invitation and winning ONE game.
In reality, of the 5 players you categorized it seems every game a couple of them have below par games and the 6th or 7th man do not make up for the talent short fall after they are substituted. They all can shoot like Mikey Dixon but the all-around game is missing. Hopefully the players will improve in practices but some God given talent is missing and you only find that by tireless recruiting. I find it ironic that fans defend Mullin for not utilizing Josh Roberts and even suggesting he or Williams red shirt. Players in their ranked player position categories are getting extended minutes in other programs. I don't get the impression Mullin and staff are into long term player development given the record number of players who have transferred out in favor of transfers in. If that's the case, just offer the ships to some grad transfers or jucos.[/quote]

See I don't find your complaints as tiresome as I do others. But seriously what coach have you liked? And you are a fan since at least since 72 and I am sure before. I go back to Mullin's frosh season as a kid. So in what universe is making the NCAA tourney not a successful season for us?[/quote]

What coach have I liked? Start with Joe Lapchick. A gentleman coach. All class. Lou Carnessecca who was usually able to make 5 NY area kids reach the post season every year. Since then the only two coaches worth their salaries were Mike Jarvis and Steve Lavin. Those two coached a total of 10 years and SJ went to post season 8 of the 10 years. 5 NCAA and 3 NITs.
You see Skippy, my universe and which kept me following this now moribund program was a universe where we didn't "HOPE" for a post season invitation but was expected. That's the difference between you 80 's " be happy for little things" fans praising a coach that MAY get his team to post season in year four.
Here is the span of my universe before bad hires and empty promises became the Norm.
NCAA appearances :1967, 1968, 1969, 1973, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993.[/quote]

I could have sworn you mentioned one time about attending the 1952 national championship game as a teenager?[/quote]

Actually I did mention that my phys ed teacher was on that team. He went on to coach the late Lorenzo Charles while at Brooklyn Tech. Any basketball junkie knows the Lorenzo Charles story so I won't bore you.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=306831][quote="OhioFan" post=306819][quote="Class of 72" post=306791][quote="we are sju" post=306721][quote="Class of 72" post=306716]Weare sju wrote "Jury out on Keita but currently have 5 guys. Now one of the 5 is great, 2 very good and 2 very solid."

So, you are saying the Wonder Five we are not and the Fab Five is a pipe dream. I guess that's why we will be content with an NCAA tournament invitation and winning ONE game.
In reality, of the 5 players you categorized it seems every game a couple of them have below par games and the 6th or 7th man do not make up for the talent short fall after they are substituted. They all can shoot like Mikey Dixon but the all-around game is missing. Hopefully the players will improve in practices but some God given talent is missing and you only find that by tireless recruiting. I find it ironic that fans defend Mullin for not utilizing Josh Roberts and even suggesting he or Williams red shirt. Players in their ranked player position categories are getting extended minutes in other programs. I don't get the impression Mullin and staff are into long term player development given the record number of players who have transferred out in favor of transfers in. If that's the case, just offer the ships to some grad transfers or jucos.[/quote]

See I don't find your complaints as tiresome as I do others. But seriously what coach have you liked? And you are a fan since at least since 72 and I am sure before. I go back to Mullin's frosh season as a kid. So in what universe is making the NCAA tourney not a successful season for us?[/quote]

What coach have I liked? Start with Joe Lapchick. A gentleman coach. All class. Lou Carnessecca who was usually able to make 5 NY area kids reach the post season every year. Since then the only two coaches worth their salaries were Mike Jarvis and Steve Lavin. Those two coached a total of 10 years and SJ went to post season 8 of the 10 years. 5 NCAA and 3 NITs.
You see Skippy, my universe and which kept me following this now moribund program was a universe where we didn't "HOPE" for a post season invitation but was expected. That's the difference between you 80 's " be happy for little things" fans praising a coach that MAY get his team to post season in year four.
Here is the span of my universe before bad hires and empty promises became the Norm.
NCAA appearances :1967, 1968, 1969, 1973, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993.[/quote]

I could have sworn you mentioned one time about attending the 1952 national championship game as a teenager?[/quote]

Actually I did mention that my phys ed teacher was on that team. He went on to coach the late Lorenzo Charles while at Brooklyn Tech. Any basketball junkie knows the Lorenzo Charles story so I won't bore you.[/quote] When I started following college basketball and became a Houston Cougar fan first. Ughhhh he wrecked my sports world
 
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=306827]Question for Mike Zaun:

What are you going to post if we win the next five games (including the Seton Hall game) by an average of only 3-4 points with a bunch of threes made against us in each game? We would be 13-0 and certainly in the top 25, but will you still be talking about who the next coach should be?
My point is maybe you should wait until we lose a game before firing the coach.[/quote]

I think Mike was speaking in generalities regarding the next coach because realistically Chris Mullin will not be the LAST St. John's coach. Sure it could be in a year or two or it could be 6 years from now. Whenever it is I agree that it should not be another Norm Roberts and definitely not a former St. John's player since I can't remotely think of anyone worth the $$$$$$.
 
[quote="mjmaherjr" post=306832][quote="Class of 72" post=306831][quote="OhioFan" post=306819][quote="Class of 72" post=306791][quote="we are sju" post=306721][quote="Class of 72" post=306716]Weare sju wrote "Jury out on Keita but currently have 5 guys. Now one of the 5 is great, 2 very good and 2 very solid."

So, you are saying the Wonder Five we are not and the Fab Five is a pipe dream. I guess that's why we will be content with an NCAA tournament invitation and winning ONE game.
In reality, of the 5 players you categorized it seems every game a couple of them have below par games and the 6th or 7th man do not make up for the talent short fall after they are substituted. They all can shoot like Mikey Dixon but the all-around game is missing. Hopefully the players will improve in practices but some God given talent is missing and you only find that by tireless recruiting. I find it ironic that fans defend Mullin for not utilizing Josh Roberts and even suggesting he or Williams red shirt. Players in their ranked player position categories are getting extended minutes in other programs. I don't get the impression Mullin and staff are into long term player development given the record number of players who have transferred out in favor of transfers in. If that's the case, just offer the ships to some grad transfers or jucos.[/quote]

See I don't find your complaints as tiresome as I do others. But seriously what coach have you liked? And you are a fan since at least since 72 and I am sure before. I go back to Mullin's frosh season as a kid. So in what universe is making the NCAA tourney not a successful season for us?[/quote]

What coach have I liked? Start with Joe Lapchick. A gentleman coach. All class. Lou Carnessecca who was usually able to make 5 NY area kids reach the post season every year. Since then the only two coaches worth their salaries were Mike Jarvis and Steve Lavin. Those two coached a total of 10 years and SJ went to post season 8 of the 10 years. 5 NCAA and 3 NITs.
You see Skippy, my universe and which kept me following this now moribund program was a universe where we didn't "HOPE" for a post season invitation but was expected. That's the difference between you 80 's " be happy for little things" fans praising a coach that MAY get his team to post season in year four.
Here is the span of my universe before bad hires and empty promises became the Norm.
NCAA appearances :1967, 1968, 1969, 1973, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993.[/quote]

I could have sworn you mentioned one time about attending the 1952 national championship game as a teenager?[/quote]

Actually I did mention that my phys ed teacher was on that team. He went on to coach the late Lorenzo Charles while at Brooklyn Tech. Any basketball junkie knows the Lorenzo Charles story so I won't bore you.[/quote] When I started following college basketball and became a Houston Cougar fan first. Ughhhh he wrecked my sports world[/quote]

Phi Slama Jama we are not as we don't play anywhere the basket.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=306831][quote="OhioFan" post=306819][quote="Class of 72" post=306791][quote="we are sju" post=306721][quote="Class of 72" post=306716]Weare sju wrote "Jury out on Keita but currently have 5 guys. Now one of the 5 is great, 2 very good and 2 very solid."

So, you are saying the Wonder Five we are not and the Fab Five is a pipe dream. I guess that's why we will be content with an NCAA tournament invitation and winning ONE game.
In reality, of the 5 players you categorized it seems every game a couple of them have below par games and the 6th or 7th man do not make up for the talent short fall after they are substituted. They all can shoot like Mikey Dixon but the all-around game is missing. Hopefully the players will improve in practices but some God given talent is missing and you only find that by tireless recruiting. I find it ironic that fans defend Mullin for not utilizing Josh Roberts and even suggesting he or Williams red shirt. Players in their ranked player position categories are getting extended minutes in other programs. I don't get the impression Mullin and staff are into long term player development given the record number of players who have transferred out in favor of transfers in. If that's the case, just offer the ships to some grad transfers or jucos.[/quote]

See I don't find your complaints as tiresome as I do others. But seriously what coach have you liked? And you are a fan since at least since 72 and I am sure before. I go back to Mullin's frosh season as a kid. So in what universe is making the NCAA tourney not a successful season for us?[/quote]

What coach have I liked? Start with Joe Lapchick. A gentleman coach. All class. Lou Carnessecca who was usually able to make 5 NY area kids reach the post season every year. Since then the only two coaches worth their salaries were Mike Jarvis and Steve Lavin. Those two coached a total of 10 years and SJ went to post season 8 of the 10 years. 5 NCAA and 3 NITs.
You see Skippy, my universe and which kept me following this now moribund program was a universe where we didn't "HOPE" for a post season invitation but was expected. That's the difference between you 80 's " be happy for little things" fans praising a coach that MAY get his team to post season in year four.
Here is the span of my universe before bad hires and empty promises became the Norm.
NCAA appearances :1967, 1968, 1969, 1973, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993.[/quote]

I could have sworn you mentioned one time about attending the 1952 national championship game as a teenager?[/quote]

Actually I did mention that my phys ed teacher was on that team. He went on to coach the late Lorenzo Charles while at Brooklyn Tech. Any basketball junkie knows the Lorenzo Charles story so I won't bore you.[/quote]

Come on, admit it. You should change your handle to Class of 52.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=306834][quote="mjmaherjr" post=306832][quote="Class of 72" post=306831][quote="OhioFan" post=306819][quote="Class of 72" post=306791][quote="we are sju" post=306721][quote="Class of 72" post=306716]Weare sju wrote "Jury out on Keita but currently have 5 guys. Now one of the 5 is great, 2 very good and 2 very solid."

So, you are saying the Wonder Five we are not and the Fab Five is a pipe dream. I guess that's why we will be content with an NCAA tournament invitation and winning ONE game.
In reality, of the 5 players you categorized it seems every game a couple of them have below par games and the 6th or 7th man do not make up for the talent short fall after they are substituted. They all can shoot like Mikey Dixon but the all-around game is missing. Hopefully the players will improve in practices but some God given talent is missing and you only find that by tireless recruiting. I find it ironic that fans defend Mullin for not utilizing Josh Roberts and even suggesting he or Williams red shirt. Players in their ranked player position categories are getting extended minutes in other programs. I don't get the impression Mullin and staff are into long term player development given the record number of players who have transferred out in favor of transfers in. If that's the case, just offer the ships to some grad transfers or jucos.[/quote]

See I don't find your complaints as tiresome as I do others. But seriously what coach have you liked? And you are a fan since at least since 72 and I am sure before. I go back to Mullin's frosh season as a kid. So in what universe is making the NCAA tourney not a successful season for us?[/quote]

What coach have I liked? Start with Joe Lapchick. A gentleman coach. All class. Lou Carnessecca who was usually able to make 5 NY area kids reach the post season every year. Since then the only two coaches worth their salaries were Mike Jarvis and Steve Lavin. Those two coached a total of 10 years and SJ went to post season 8 of the 10 years. 5 NCAA and 3 NITs.
You see Skippy, my universe and which kept me following this now moribund program was a universe where we didn't "HOPE" for a post season invitation but was expected. That's the difference between you 80 's " be happy for little things" fans praising a coach that MAY get his team to post season in year four.
Here is the span of my universe before bad hires and empty promises became the Norm.
NCAA appearances :1967, 1968, 1969, 1973, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993.[/quote]

I could have sworn you mentioned one time about attending the 1952 national championship game as a teenager?[/quote]

Actually I did mention that my phys ed teacher was on that team. He went on to coach the late Lorenzo Charles while at Brooklyn Tech. Any basketball junkie knows the Lorenzo Charles story so I won't bore you.[/quote] When I started following college basketball and became a Houston Cougar fan first. Ughhhh he wrecked my sports world[/quote]

Phi Slama Jama we are not as we don't play anywhere the basket.[/quote] Tri Shoota Threea
 
Class of 72 wrote: NCJohnnie wrote: Question for Mike Zaun:

What are you going to post if we win the next five games (including the Seton Hall game) by an average of only 3-4 points with a bunch of threes made against us in each game? We would be 13-0 and certainly in the top 25, but will you still be talking about who the next coach should be?
My point is maybe you should wait until we lose a game before firing the coach.

I think Mike was speaking in generalities regarding the next coach because realistically Chris Mullin will not be the LAST St. John's coach. Sure it could be in a year or two or it could be 6 years from now. Whenever it is I agree that it should not be another Norm Roberts and definitely not a former St. John's player since I can't remotely think of anyone worth the $$$$$$.

Sorry 72 and I love your posts (though I sometimes disagree with them), but the whole tone of Mike's post was this team is a poorly coached CF and our next coach needs to be …

My point is let this season (which we all agree is critical) unfold before we decide it has been a failure. I understand that there are plenty of areas of concern, but we are not UCLA and you don't talk about replacing a coach in a season before he's lost a game.
 
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=306837]Class of 72 wrote: NCJohnnie wrote: Question for Mike Zaun:

What are you going to post if we win the next five games (including the Seton Hall game) by an average of only 3-4 points with a bunch of threes made against us in each game? We would be 13-0 and certainly in the top 25, but will you still be talking about who the next coach should be?
My point is maybe you should wait until we lose a game before firing the coach.

I think Mike was speaking in generalities regarding the next coach because realistically Chris Mullin will not be the LAST St. John's coach. Sure it could be in a year or two or it could be 6 years from now. Whenever it is I agree that it should not be another Norm Roberts and definitely not a former St. John's player since I can't remotely think of anyone worth the $$$$$$.

Sorry 72 and I love your posts (though I sometimes disagree with them), but the whole tone of Mike's post was this team is a poorly coached CF and our next coach needs to be …

My point is let this season (which we all agree is critical) unfold before we decide it has been a failure. I understand that there are plenty of areas of concern, but we are not UCLA and you don't talk about replacing a coach in a season before he's lost a game.[/quote]

IMO Mark Jackson would have made a fine coach!
 
I know it doesn't show here but obviously I'm pumped that the team is 8-0. If we were 13-0 after a SH win I will be even more happy. I just take note of the cracks in the foundation more than the average fan I guess. It's very concerning to not be able to pull away from the Mounts of the world even after winning eventually by 14, but in the Big East at least we go in knowing every game will likely be very close. So if we beat SH by 2 points then great win. Any Big East victory will be among our best due to the poor OOC. When the OOC schedule came out I was frustrated not only because of how weak it was but also because I knew the team had a real tendency to go into sleep mode against bad teams. We need to play Texas, West Virginia, Florida, etc. to help wake us up and play up to teams for a change. We need games where we have much to gain OOC.

I wasn't saying to fire Mullin...like 72 said just noting that he won't be with us forever and whoever the next coach is, I hope it's someone oozing passion for this program. It doesn't have to be a huge name...just very hungry and has great assistants who can coach and recruit well. I'm giving Mullin the rest of this season and after his 4th year is over, I think it will be pretty clear if he can ever get us to be a regular contender again. He has to lead us to the NCAA's at the minimum IMO or I think it's a waste of time. I'm also getting pretty tired of athletes when we need basketball players. I love SImon but he misses tons and tons of easy buckets and our layups are far from automatic. Every team we play not only makes their layups but they also look crisp with a perfect spin on the ball. When we are on fast breaks, I don't even know if we will finish anymore. Lots to work on but thankful to be 8-0.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=306817]I'm just sick of playing streetball with everyone standing outside the 3 PT line and the defense literally not even having to move their feet to defend us with no sense of urgency. I'm sick of not having several solid bigs with some semblance of a jump hook or soft touch and solid rebounding (like almost every team has) which we knew we needed badly for several years. I get the same feeling I was getting with Lavin...didn't seem to matter what players he had, they always seemed to underachieve. They never passed the eye test. They got a few nice wins here and there usually isolated and Lav put together some solid seasons record wise but had Sweet 16 talent and got knocked out of tournaments immediately. Our next hire has to be the epitome of hunger and passion. They have to make our program their baby. You get that sense with Cooley at PC and Wright at Nova. They have to have an idea of what style they want the team to be and get skilled specific players to fit that. Then they need to stick to their role and make their teammates better. Then the chemistry comes.[/quote]

They are 8-0, #29 in the NET, #32 in the AP Poll, and #28 in the Coach's Poll. Offensively they are scoring 82.4 PPG and rank #49 in the country in points scored. Your sickness is not reasonable and it's certainly not supported by any evidence. The five men on the perimeter you mention is called a five-out motion offense. It helps keep the lane open for hard cuts, drives, and allows us to post bigger guards deep when there is a mismatch. Any reasonable and knowledgeable fan understands that the staff will add aspects to this offense with time. They have already shown that they want to get Justin moving and posting him up to optimize spacing.

I concede that there is too much standing around after eight games, but a lot of that is expected with a roster so unfamiliar with one another. All of the players interviewed said they are still learning to play with one another. Clearly a big focus for the MSM game was ball movement.

There is nothing wrong with one-on-one ball when there is proper spacing and the situation calls for it. We have the best one-on-one player in the country and that usually bodes well for teams in March--e.g, Dwayne Wade for Marquette and Kemba Walker for Uconn. I'd also argue that Heron is top 25 or so in that area as well.

You writing about "Our next hire" while we are one of 10-12 unbeaten teams left in the country just proves why this job sucks.
 
Mike Zaun wrote: I know it doesn't show here but obviously I'm pumped that the team is 8-0. If we were 13-0 after a SH win I will be even more happy. I just take note of the cracks in the foundation more than the average fan I guess. It's very concerning to not be able to pull away from the Mounts of the world even after winning eventually by 14, but in the Big East at least we go in knowing every game will likely be very close. So if we beat SH by 2 points then great win. Any Big East victory will be among our best due to the poor OOC. When the OOC schedule came out I was frustrated not only because of how weak it was but also because I knew the team had a real tendency to go into sleep mode against bad teams. We need to play Texas, West Virginia, Florida, etc. to help wake us up and play up to teams for a change. We need games where we have much to gain OOC.

I wasn't saying to fire Mullin...like 72 said just noting that he won't be with us forever and whoever the next coach is, I hope it's someone oozing passion for this program. It doesn't have to be a huge name...just very hungry and has great assistants who can coach and recruit well. I'm giving Mullin the rest of this season and after his 4th year is over, I think it will be pretty clear if he can ever get us to be a regular contender again. He has to lead us to the NCAA's at the minimum IMO or I think it's a waste of time. I'm also getting pretty tired of athletes when we need basketball players. I love SImon but he misses tons and tons of easy buckets and our layups are far from automatic. Every team we play not only makes their layups but they also look crisp with a perfect spin on the ball. When we are on fast breaks, I don't even know if we will finish anymore. Lots to work on but thankful to be 8-0.

Mike, very fair response, except don't discount Simon as just "an athlete". He happens to be a super athlete, who almost always makes the right unselfish basketball play. As I've said before, except if we are lucky enough to get Precious, he is our biggest key recruit for 2019.
 
[quote="Marillac" post=306840][quote="Mike Zaun" post=306817]I'm just sick of playing streetball with everyone standing outside the 3 PT line and the defense literally not even having to move their feet to defend us with no sense of urgency. I'm sick of not having several solid bigs with some semblance of a jump hook or soft touch and solid rebounding (like almost every team has) which we knew we needed badly for several years. I get the same feeling I was getting with Lavin...didn't seem to matter what players he had, they always seemed to underachieve. They never passed the eye test. They got a few nice wins here and there usually isolated and Lav put together some solid seasons record wise but had Sweet 16 talent and got knocked out of tournaments immediately. Our next hire has to be the epitome of hunger and passion. They have to make our program their baby. You get that sense with Cooley at PC and Wright at Nova. They have to have an idea of what style they want the team to be and get skilled specific players to fit that. Then they need to stick to their role and make their teammates better. Then the chemistry comes.[/quote]

They are 8-0, #29 in the NET, #32 in the AP Poll, and #28 in the Coach's Poll. Offensively they are scoring 82.4 PPG and rank #49 in the country in points scored. Your sickness is not reasonable and it's certainly not supported by any evidence. The five men on the perimeter you mention is called a five-out motion offense. It helps keep the lane open for hard cuts, drives, and allows us to post bigger guards deep when there is a mismatch. Any reasonable and knowledgeable fan understands that the staff will add aspects to this offense with time. They have already shown that they want to get Justin moving and posting him up to optimize spacing.

I concede that there is too much standing around after eight games, but a lot of that is expected with a roster so unfamiliar with one another. All of the players interviewed said they are still learning to play with one another. Clearly a big focus for the MSM game was ball movement.

There is nothing wrong with one-on-one ball when there is proper spacing and the situation calls for it. We have the best one-on-one player in the country and that usually bodes well for teams in March--e.g, Dwayne Wade for Marquette and Kemba Walker for Uconn. I'd also argue that Heron is top 25 or so in that area as well.

You writing about "Our next hire" while we are one of 10-12 unbeaten teams left in the country just proves why this job sucks.[/quote]

Agree that we have one of the best 1 on 1 players in Ponds. But there's unfortunately plenty of evidence to be concerned about thus far despite being undefeated. That evidence includes very poor 3PT defense, many missed layups especially in transition and on fastbreaks, lack of movement without the ball on offense, a major lack of intensity against bad teams, etc. We have to remember we aren't 8-0 in the Big East, we are 8-0 with one of the weakest OOC schedules in the country for major teams. If we start 8-0 in the Big East, I'll be making beer angels near 114 from the pale ales Maher spills.
 
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=306841]Mike Zaun wrote: I know it doesn't show here but obviously I'm pumped that the team is 8-0. If we were 13-0 after a SH win I will be even more happy. I just take note of the cracks in the foundation more than the average fan I guess. It's very concerning to not be able to pull away from the Mounts of the world even after winning eventually by 14, but in the Big East at least we go in knowing every game will likely be very close. So if we beat SH by 2 points then great win. Any Big East victory will be among our best due to the poor OOC. When the OOC schedule came out I was frustrated not only because of how weak it was but also because I knew the team had a real tendency to go into sleep mode against bad teams. We need to play Texas, West Virginia, Florida, etc. to help wake us up and play up to teams for a change. We need games where we have much to gain OOC.

I wasn't saying to fire Mullin...like 72 said just noting that he won't be with us forever and whoever the next coach is, I hope it's someone oozing passion for this program. It doesn't have to be a huge name...just very hungry and has great assistants who can coach and recruit well. I'm giving Mullin the rest of this season and after his 4th year is over, I think it will be pretty clear if he can ever get us to be a regular contender again. He has to lead us to the NCAA's at the minimum IMO or I think it's a waste of time. I'm also getting pretty tired of athletes when we need basketball players. I love SImon but he misses tons and tons of easy buckets and our layups are far from automatic. Every team we play not only makes their layups but they also look crisp with a perfect spin on the ball. When we are on fast breaks, I don't even know if we will finish anymore. Lots to work on but thankful to be 8-0.

Mike, very fair response, except don't discount Simon as just "an athlete". He happens to be a super athlete, who almost always makes the right unselfish basketball play. As I've said before, except if we are lucky enough to get Precious, he is our biggest key recruit for 2019.[/quote]

It hasn’t been pretty, but we’re 8-0, with 4 tough wins against decent high-major competition.
We seem to play down to our competition and also seem to be sporadically learning the intricacies of turnover fastbreaks and struggling with effective defense schemes.
That said, despite our inadequacies in the science of the game, we refuse to quit and have consistently come from behind to win games in breathtaking fashion, thanks often to Ponds but also to key plays and stops by Heron, Simon, Clark, Figgy and others.
We’ll have to step it up and be more consistent to succeed against Big East competition, but I’m fairly confident welll do that.
Let’s go Johnnies..
 
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