Missing the point!

[tom in salem]

For a frame of reference, there is not a player on what I consider the best 5 teams in the BE, Nova, X, PC, Butler, SHU averaging 35 minutes. Only Bentl, Dunn and Jones average more than 31. Lovett or anyone else won't come close to 35 IMO.

MINUTES PLAYED Cl GP Minutes Avg/G
1. DUNN, Kris-PC JR 14 511 36.5
2. SMITH-RIVERA, D.-GU SR 14 511 36.5
3. BENTIL, Ben-PC SO 14 506 36.1
4. ELLENSON, Henry-MU FR 13 468 36.0
5. ZIERDEN,Isaiah-CU JR 14 490 35.0
6. JONES, Roosevelt-BU SR 14 489 34.9
7. WATSON Jr.,Mo-CU JR 14 485 34.6
8. BULLOCK, Rodney-PC SO 14 478 34.1
9. ARCIDIACONO, Ryan-VU SR 13 438 33.7
10. DUNHAM, Kellen-BU SR 14 467 33.4

 

[Ray Morgan]

There is no reason for Lovett to play more than 25 minutes, if that. We have 4 guards. While Ponds may not be a true point, he has the handle and skills to deal with it. The need, when Lovett rests, is to have a few capable ball handlers and passers on the court to avoid getting chewed up when pressed full court. I'm sure the coaching staff isn't looking to overwork a first year player. Mullin seems like the type of coach to let other share the burden, as he wants to instill confidence in the entire roster.

 

[redmannorth]

For a frame of reference, there is not a player on what I consider the best 5 teams in the BE, Nova, X, PC, Butler, SHU averaging 35 minutes. Only Bentl, Dunn and Jones average more than 31. Lovett or anyone else won't come close to 35 IMO.

Stop with logic , it doesn't work on this board. Many fans of the program fail to understand this staff is trying to build a program which means a balanced roster , well distributed playing time, a happy bench so that players don't leave and transfer , and high school and AAU coaches that are pleased with the program and the support of the players they send. Of our four freshman only Mussini should see a noted decrease in pt because as you correctly point out no player should play 30 minutes a game. However , both he and the team will be better as a result of the decrease.

 

[OLV72]

For a frame of reference, there is not a player on what I consider the best 5 teams in the BE, Nova, X, PC, Butler, SHU averaging 35 minutes. Only Bentl, Dunn and Jones average more than 31. Lovett or anyone else won't come close to 35 IMO.

MINUTES PLAYED Cl GP Minutes Avg/G
1. DUNN, Kris-PC JR 14 511 36.5
2. SMITH-RIVERA, D.-GU SR 14 511 36.5
3. BENTIL, Ben-PC SO 14 506 36.1
4. ELLENSON, Henry-MU FR 13 468 36.0
5. ZIERDEN,Isaiah-CU JR 14 490 35.0
6. JONES, Roosevelt-BU SR 14 489 34.9
7. WATSON Jr.,Mo-CU JR 14 485 34.6
8. BULLOCK, Rodney-PC SO 14 478 34.1
9. ARCIDIACONO, Ryan-VU SR 13 438 33.7
10. DUNHAM, Kellen-BU SR 14 467 33.4

Tom,

I think you just showed us why PC is folding as they come down the stretch of the BE season

 

[mjmaherjr]

For a frame of reference, there is not a player on what I consider the best 5 teams in the BE, Nova, X, PC, Butler, SHU averaging 35 minutes. Only Bentl, Dunn and Jones average more than 31. Lovett or anyone else won't come close to 35 IMO.

MINUTES PLAYED Cl GP Minutes Avg/G
1. DUNN, Kris-PC JR 14 511 36.5
2. SMITH-RIVERA, D.-GU SR 14 511 36.5
3. BENTIL, Ben-PC SO 14 506 36.1
4. ELLENSON, Henry-MU FR 13 468 36.0
5. ZIERDEN,Isaiah-CU JR 14 490 35.0
6. JONES, Roosevelt-BU SR 14 489 34.9
7. WATSON Jr.,Mo-CU JR 14 485 34.6
8. BULLOCK, Rodney-PC SO 14 478 34.1
9. ARCIDIACONO, Ryan-VU SR 13 438 33.7
10. DUNHAM, Kellen-BU SR 14 467 33.4

Tom,

I think you just showed us why PC is folding as they come down the stretch of the BE season

What's going on with PC ? I haven't been watching them but the other night at the ranger game my friend who went to PC said she thought they were done because they haven't been playing well lately

 

[paultzman]

For a frame of reference, there is not a player on what I consider the best 5 teams in the BE, Nova, X, PC, Butler, SHU averaging 35 minutes. Only Bentl, Dunn and Jones average more than 31. Lovett or anyone else won't come close to 35 IMO.

MINUTES PLAYED Cl GP Minutes Avg/G
1. DUNN, Kris-PC JR 14 511 36.5
2. SMITH-RIVERA, D.-GU SR 14 511 36.5
3. BENTIL, Ben-PC SO 14 506 36.1
4. ELLENSON, Henry-MU FR 13 468 36.0
5. ZIERDEN,Isaiah-CU JR 14 490 35.0
6. JONES, Roosevelt-BU SR 14 489 34.9
7. WATSON Jr.,Mo-CU JR 14 485 34.6
8. BULLOCK, Rodney-PC SO 14 478 34.1
9. ARCIDIACONO, Ryan-VU SR 13 438 33.7
10. DUNHAM, Kellen-BU SR 14 467 33.4

Tom,

I think you just showed us why PC is folding as they come down the stretch of the BE season

What's going on with PC ? I haven't been watching them but the other night at the ranger game my friend who went to PC said she thought they were done because they haven't been playing well lately

No depth & too dependent on two prime players IMO. They also consistently get off to bad starts.

 

[we are sju]

There is no reason for Lovett to play more than 25 minutes, if that. We have 4 guards. While Ponds may not be a true point, he has the handle and skills to deal with it. The need, when Lovett rests, is to have a few capable ball handlers and passers on the court to avoid getting chewed up when pressed full court. I'm sure the coaching staff isn't looking to overwork a first year player. Mullin seems like the type of coach to let other share the burden, as he wants to instill confidence in the entire roster.

The reason would be to win, but otherwise ok

 

[we are sju]

For a frame of reference, there is not a player on what I consider the best 5 teams in the BE, Nova, X, PC, Butler, SHU averaging 35 minutes. Only Bentl, Dunn and Jones average more than 31. Lovett or anyone else won't come close to 35 IMO.

Stop with logic , it doesn't work on this board. Many fans of the program fail to understand this staff is trying to build a program which means a balanced roster , well distributed playing time, a happy bench so that players don't leave and transfer , and high school and AAU coaches that are pleased with the program and the support of the players they send. Of our four freshman only Mussini should see a noted decrease in pt because as you correctly point out no player should play 30 minutes a game. However , both he and the team will be better as a result of the decrease.

Didn't TIS post blow up that logic?

 

[we are sju]

Sorry for triple post but last year we had 3 guys average a shade under 35 and another average 31

 

[paultzman]

For a frame of reference, there is not a player on what I consider the best 5 teams in the BE, Nova, X, PC, Butler, SHU averaging 35 minutes. Only Bentl, Dunn and Jones average more than 31. Lovett or anyone else won't come close to 35 IMO.

Stop with logic , it doesn't work on this board. Many fans of the program fail to understand this staff is trying to build a program which means a balanced roster , well distributed playing time, a happy bench so that players don't leave and transfer , and high school and AAU coaches that are pleased with the program and the support of the players they send. Of our four freshman only Mussini should see a noted decrease in pt because as you correctly point out no player should play 30 minutes a game. However , both he and the team will be better as a result of the decrease.

Didn't TIS post blow up that logic?

WASJU, masterful job stirring the pot again. Actually this exchange beats game reviews. Enjoyed this.

 

[redmannorth]

For a frame of reference, there is not a player on what I consider the best 5 teams in the BE, Nova, X, PC, Butler, SHU averaging 35 minutes. Only Bentl, Dunn and Jones average more than 31. Lovett or anyone else won't come close to 35 IMO.

Stop with logic , it doesn't work on this board. Many fans of the program fail to understand this staff is trying to build a program which means a balanced roster , well distributed playing time, a happy bench so that players don't leave and transfer , and high school and AAU coaches that are pleased with the program and the support of the players they send. Of our four freshman only Mussini should see a noted decrease in pt because as you correctly point out no player should play 30 minutes a game. However , both he and the team will be better as a result of the decrease.

Didn't TIS post blow up that logic?

Not at all. PC, Georgetown, Marquette are not winning it all. We will in 2-3 years down the road with the deep and balanced roster the staff is constructing. 3 top 50 kids in a recruiting class is the perfect way to go. Not players who play 35 minutes a game and when they leave the team starts over. For the last time as this is getting real tiring as you refuse to listen to logic of long time posters like myself, Logen , Ray Morgan etc that Lovett playing 35 minutes a game is not in the best interest of the program short or long term.

 

[we are sju]

For a frame of reference, there is not a player on what I consider the best 5 teams in the BE, Nova, X, PC, Butler, SHU averaging 35 minutes. Only Bentl, Dunn and Jones average more than 31. Lovett or anyone else won't come close to 35 IMO.

Stop with logic , it doesn't work on this board. Many fans of the program fail to understand this staff is trying to build a program which means a balanced roster , well distributed playing time, a happy bench so that players don't leave and transfer , and high school and AAU coaches that are pleased with the program and the support of the players they send. Of our four freshman only Mussini should see a noted decrease in pt because as you correctly point out no player should play 30 minutes a game. However , both he and the team will be better as a result of the decrease.

Didn't TIS post blow up that logic?

Not at all. PC, Georgetown, Marquette are not winning it all. We will in 2-3 years down the road with the deep and balanced roster the staff is constructing. 3 top 50 kids in a recruiting class is the perfect way to go. Not players who play 35 minutes a game and when they leave the team starts over. For the last time as this is getting real tiring as you refuse to listen to logic of long time posters like myself, Logen , Ray Morgan etc that Lovett playing 35 minutes a game is not in the best interest of the program short or long term.

Mullin / Berry / Jackson teams. Sealy teams. Artest, Barkley, Bootsy, Postell, Grant /Glover teams and even the DLO teams the starters all played close to 35 minutes. So in other words every time we have been good in my lifetime the best players played most of the minutes. If we are decent next year the same will happen.

 

[OLV72]

For a frame of reference, there is not a player on what I consider the best 5 teams in the BE, Nova, X, PC, Butler, SHU averaging 35 minutes. Only Bentl, Dunn and Jones average more than 31. Lovett or anyone else won't come close to 35 IMO.

Stop with logic , it doesn't work on this board. Many fans of the program fail to understand this staff is trying to build a program which means a balanced roster , well distributed playing time, a happy bench so that players don't leave and transfer , and high school and AAU coaches that are pleased with the program and the support of the players they send. Of our four freshman only Mussini should see a noted decrease in pt because as you correctly point out no player should play 30 minutes a game. However , both he and the team will be better as a result of the decrease.

Didn't TIS post blow up that logic?

Not at all. PC, Georgetown, Marquette are not winning it all. We will in 2-3 years down the road with the deep and balanced roster the staff is constructing. 3 top 50 kids in a recruiting class is the perfect way to go. Not players who play 35 minutes a game and when they leave the team starts over. For the last time as this is getting real tiring as you refuse to listen to logic of long time posters like myself, Logen , Ray Morgan etc that Lovett playing 35 minutes a game is not in the best interest of the program short or long term.

Mullin / Berry / Jackson teams. Sealy teams. Artest, Barkley, Bootsy, Postell, Grant /Glover teams and even the DLO teams the starters all played close to 35 minutes. So in other words every time we have been good in my lifetime the best players played most of the minutes. If we are decent next year the same will happen.

With few exceptions our BE and NCAA performances disappointed us.

 

[we are sju]

For a frame of reference, there is not a player on what I consider the best 5 teams in the BE, Nova, X, PC, Butler, SHU averaging 35 minutes. Only Bentl, Dunn and Jones average more than 31. Lovett or anyone else won't come close to 35 IMO.

Stop with logic , it doesn't work on this board. Many fans of the program fail to understand this staff is trying to build a program which means a balanced roster , well distributed playing time, a happy bench so that players don't leave and transfer , and high school and AAU coaches that are pleased with the program and the support of the players they send. Of our four freshman only Mussini should see a noted decrease in pt because as you correctly point out no player should play 30 minutes a game. However , both he and the team will be better as a result of the decrease.

Didn't TIS post blow up that logic?

Not at all. PC, Georgetown, Marquette are not winning it all. We will in 2-3 years down the road with the deep and balanced roster the staff is constructing. 3 top 50 kids in a recruiting class is the perfect way to go. Not players who play 35 minutes a game and when they leave the team starts over. For the last time as this is getting real tiring as you refuse to listen to logic of long time posters like myself, Logen , Ray Morgan etc that Lovett playing 35 minutes a game is not in the best interest of the program short or long term.

Mullin / Berry / Jackson teams. Sealy teams. Artest, Barkley, Bootsy, Postell, Grant /Glover teams and even the DLO teams the starters all played close to 35 minutes. So in other words every time we have been good in my lifetime the best players played most of the minutes. If we are decent next year the same will happen.

With few exceptions our BE and NCAA performances disappointed us.

Because some of you think you root for Duke. WE ARE ST JOHN'S! Making the tourney is a good year for us!

 

[austour]

Two things re WASJU's points. Sure it's possible that Lovett plays close to 35 if you're in the camp that Ellison and Mussini shouldn't be playing anywhere's near what they are or that Ponds will be a true frosh and need some time to develop. But Lovett is unlikely to be as good as any of the guys in the last post and those players were on teams with very little depth or played for Lou who didn't like going more than 7 or 8 deep. Here's my guesses for mins for next year:

Guard: Lovett-30, Ponds-25, Muss-15, Ellison-10
SF: Bashir-27, RF-13
Bigs: Sima-22, Yakwe-25, Owens-18, Williams-10, Ali-5
Transfer: Jones so he can play 25 somewhere and start working on his masters in architecture

 

[mjmaherjr]

If we are going to play uptempo the type of game I think Mullin wants to play where you are constantly pushing the ball up I think optimally you arent going to want to play someone 35 minutes a game. Because just from a physical standpoint in my opinion in that type of offense a player like Lovett or anyone else might not be as good a player during the extra 5 minutes as a fresher player even if they are a better head to head player.

Just like in baseball where a pitchers starts losing his effectiveness after a certain amount of pitches lets say their era etc increase dramatically after 110 pitches I think it's the same thing with most other athletes.

So Matt Harvey might be the best pitcher on the staff this year but the Matt Harvey after 110 pitches isnt better than Familia or another reliever so bsically the matt harvey after 110 pitches isnt the best pitcher on the staff at that point


Also in regards to Mussini and his lack of quickness I think that will be negated somehwhat by not having to push the ball up so when we get the rebound or take it our of bounds under our own hoop he is already going to be breaking up the court ahead of people since he wont have to bring the ball up so that's going to cut down on energy exertion and going to help him a lot.

 

[we are sju]

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/2599/year/2012/st-john-red-storm

Next year's team to me will resemble Harrison first year. Notice the minutes for our two best players which will be Lovett and Ahmed next year.
Actually this is just silly unless you have Hamburger all Americans on your bench like Kentucky your best 3 players will generally play between 30-35 minutes. I forgot some of you think we will be Kentucky

 

[Eric]

For a frame of reference, there is not a player on what I consider the best 5 teams in the BE, Nova, X, PC, Butler, SHU averaging 35 minutes. Only Bentl, Dunn and Jones average more than 31. Lovett or anyone else won't come close to 35 IMO.

Stop with logic , it doesn't work on this board. Many fans of the program fail to understand this staff is trying to build a program which means a balanced roster , well distributed playing time, a happy bench so that players don't leave and transfer , and high school and AAU coaches that are pleased with the program and the support of the players they send. Of our four freshman only Mussini should see a noted decrease in pt because as you correctly point out no player should play 30 minutes a game. However , both he and the team will be better as a result of the decrease.

Didn't TIS post blow up that logic?

WASJU, masterful job stirring the pot again. Actually this exchange beats game reviews. Enjoyed this.

Was thinking the same

 

[monte]

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/2599/year/2012/st-john-red-storm

Next year's team to me will resemble Harrison first year. Notice the minutes for our two best players which will be Lovett and Ahmed next year.
Actually this is just silly unless you have Hamburger all Americans on your bench like Kentucky your best 3 players will generally play between 30-35 minutes. I forgot some of you think we will be Kentucky

A few big differences. Once Lindsay skipped town we could barely field a team. There were basically 2 kids on that team who could handle the ball, Harrison and Greene. Next years team is pretty deep with at least 3 other kids who can handle the ball. Also those kids on Harrison's team were all pretty solid/physical. Lovett on the other hand is going to get banged around pretty good by the bigger, more physical big east guards. Much like Mussini this year, he's going to take a beating and is going to need to be rested.

 

[RedStormNC]

Two things re WASJU's points. Sure it's possible that Lovett plays close to 35 if you're in the camp that Ellison and Mussini shouldn't be playing anywhere's near what they are or that Ponds will be a true frosh and need some time to develop. But Lovett is unlikely to be as good as any of the guys in the last post and those players were on teams with very little depth or played for Lou who didn't like going more than 7 or 8 deep. Here's my guesses for mins for next year:

Guard: Lovett-30, Ponds-25, Muss-15, Ellison-10
SF: Bashir-27, RF-13
Bigs: Sima-22, Yakwe-25, Owens-18, Williams-10, Ali-5
Transfer: Jones so he can play 25 somewhere and start working on his masters in architecture

I think pencilling in 10 min for Williams might be wishful thinking... we don't know what he has..