Mike Vacc SJU Critique
- Thread starter paultzman
- Start date
And what did Wright do after he was on the hot seat in 2005? Did he stop recruiting? Did he change his system?
I'll give you a number: 6
That's the number of McDonald's All-Americans he recruited since then.
Players from the distant lands of Brookyln, NJ, Philly, Virginia and Chicago. Passport not required.
"But Moe and Jakarr left early."
Didn't Cheek and Wayns do the same?
"But we had to take risks."
Academic risks occurring 4 years later with 2 in one class is no longer risk-taking. It's a pattern.
"The cupboards were bare."
Ronald Roberts played 4 years and made the league, albeit barely.
Did Nova have roster turnover and issues. Sure, you noted such.
But there was a system in place with consistent and high-level recruiting. Winning is sustainable when you have that.
Cupboards shouldn't be bare 5 years down the road which is exactly what we're facing next year which is what you seem to be glossing over.
He said he's one year ahead of where he thought he'd be. His words.
He needs to either prove it or take a hike.
I don't disagree with you at all about our recent history (post-Louie.) I also agree with your assessment of Lavin's 5 year record. But I do not believe in Lavin long term because I don't think you can fix lazy nor create passion where it is not there. I don't believe Lavin bleeds to be successful here and I think the lack of anything resembling quality depth this year and the outlook for next years roster and the reasons for both is ample proof. He may pull a rabbit out of the hat for next year but we should not be facing trying to piece together an even remotely competitive roster in his 6th year IMO. Having said that, I do understand and respect your position now
beast of the east
Active member
I'm not sure exactly how it happened, maybe it was the Cahill effect, but most SJU alumni do not have a strong allegiance to the school in terms of giving back. Back then, maybe as now, the school lacked spirit, that ol' college stuff that oozes out of hundreds of campuses across America. Our giving rate is atrocious, even if it is improved over the past 15 years. Our alumni base is much larger than Nova's, but contributes much less on just about any measure.
Is there any correlation to athletic success and the rate of giving at Georgetown and Villanova? I think it's pretty clear, but then again, it could be convoluted thinking. Everyone wants to be associated with a winner. It takes a big investment in winning to get there. Many thought Lavin was that investment.
I would say SJU has deployed the NY Mets strategy of investing. Looie retires, they go cheap on Mahoney figuring our program is turnkey, WRONG. Than they go cheap again in hiring Frachilla. He turns losing around, and instead of immediately tearing up his contract and pencilling in bigger numbers, they get angry and fire him for hitting them up for more money. Then they decide they DO need to spend more, but don't go top shelf. Enter Jarvis, at around 800K or so, all in (Nike, tv show, etc). Jarvis fails, and the stealing CEO priest Harrington decides that a big (LOL) investment in JArvis didn't yield results but got him a prima dona, so he cheaps out again on Roberts. Enter some BIG donors who convince Harrington of what EVERY successful sports university knows about branding and the value of winning, and they pony up for Lavin.
Now the Mets would cheap out again.
The George Steinbrenner Yankees (yes I hate them) would spend spend spend till you win. If SJU is to regain any glory, that's what must happen. Alumni at SJU are tight with money, but perhaps if we won, they'd part with more. Perhaps better students would want to be a part of a school that has a big time program. It all works in concert. But I doubt SJU will go this route.
SJU alumni have always been cheap. I remember in early 70's the reason that tuition had to rise because the school was waiting for alumni to contribute to the endowment. Maybe the school needs to develop better relations with it's graduates. I get requests for donations regularly but never get an invite back for some social event without it being fundraising focused.
My graduate degree is from Fordham & must say they historically have done a better job than SJU in soliciting funds & tracking alums. I travel often through Fordham & they use that vehicle well as component of Development program. Fordham communication & written materials are also quite good. In the last year I have noted improvement at SJU in this regard, so hopefully the trend continues.
beast of the east
Active member
In defense of the school, I'll disagree with some of your premises. I would say you are not the atypical alumnus, and you represent a large number, maybe the vast majority.
In the early 70s, our tuition was cheaper than dirt. Probably around $900 per semester, far below any private institution. Maybe that wasn't gifted by a large body of contributing alumni, but it was gifted off of the backs of low paid administration and faculty, and a school that provided little frills to go along with education. For me at least, it was SJU or CUNY. I made the right choice in terms of how it provided for me in my career.
The school DOES have many non-fun raising opportunities for alumni to reconnect. The Lawn party, the blessing of couple around Valentines day are two that I can think of. These are more recent attempts, and I think that the school is working hard to draw alumni back into the fold, and YES, the end goal is for us to contribute more.
I've heard really laughable things by alumni over the years, such as my season ticket is my contribution. Well, okay, if you feel that way, you are getting something in return, and if you think that isn't the case, then write St. John's a check for $600 or $1200 depending on how many tickets you own. I doubt any of those people saying that would donate instead. A few years ago I was over for dinner at a couple who both went to SJU with us. The wife complained that the school wasn't bending the rules for her son to get into the pharmacy program, and this was AFTER she contributed $25 to the school. She was serious.
As far as I'm concerned, if SJU provided us with a degree that was a catalyst to a successful career, there should be a sense of indebtedness to support the school in all of its missions, especially if you are at a point in your life where you are able to do so. And, yes, that would provide funds for the school to invest in trivial things like winning in nationally prominent, high visibility sports.
beast of the east
Active member
I understand at the Big East tournament, Villanova was present in force, with many administrators, including the school President taking high profile alumni out to dinners, lunches, etc. The school also has events for all alumni, such as a Saturday evening mass they host on the eve of the finals. They are super organized in keeping alumni in the fold and it shows in their success in raising funds.
Beast-
Point well-taken. I think historically, the problem with alumni donating had much to do with the commuter college nature of the school at the time and kids rushing off to a job out of the area of SJU. Now with dorms maybe a closer tie can be developed with graduates who have a more intimate memory of their experience.
Point well-taken. I think historically, the problem with alumni donating had much to do with the commuter college nature of the school at the time and kids rushing off to a job out of the area of SJU. Now with dorms maybe a closer tie can be developed with graduates who have a more intimate memory of their experience.
jerseyshorejohnny
Well-known member
Also historically, we did not have an established Development Office until 20-25 years ago.
Simply put: If you don't ask for the order you are not getting it.
To me it all comes down to this:
If you want to help your alma mater you will, if you are looking for excuses not to, you won't.
It's all about helping others.
Is anyone going to argue the point that after being out of St. John's for 5-10 years they can't write a $100 annually without it throwing their personal finances into a "tizzy"
Simply put: If you don't ask for the order you are not getting it.
To me it all comes down to this:
If you want to help your alma mater you will, if you are looking for excuses not to, you won't.
It's all about helping others.
Is anyone going to argue the point that after being out of St. John's for 5-10 years they can't write a $100 annually without it throwing their personal finances into a "tizzy"
beast of the east
Active member
Really good points.
There's a line in scripture that Paul wrote: " When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me."
As students, many of us were PAYING for our own educations via part time jobs. Many of us came from working class 1st or second generation families, Our part time jobs paid for books, expenses, and for some, even tuition. It wasn't easy, and it made us feel like WE were doing this all by ourselves and never developed an appreciation of just how inexpensive St. John's was back then. It becomes ingrained in you and you begin to think as a student, "Why should I do anything for them when they did nothing for me?"
The truth is, that low cost education did plenty for us, and regardless of those foolish thoughts of a 20 year old, As adults we should see that more clearly.
jerseyshorejohnny
Well-known member
Fair point.
That said, that is in the rear view mirror and there is a new sheriff in town.
Going forward, yes.
But the effects are still being felt.
It's the topic that people want to act like it never occured when in fact it was the main catalyst for revenue, facility improvements, etc.
I'll drop it but it's kind of a slap in the face to say alumni make excuses not to help.
beast of the east
Active member
You don't have to answer this, but I'd ask anyway:
1) What did you contribute before this scandal broke?
2) Did you modify or eliminate giving afterwards?
3) Other than the insult of the dirty actions of administration, how did this affect you personally?
4) Should students today, who pay far more than we did for tuition, not get the same benefits of a low cost education that we did?
beast of the east
Active member
"It is a fascinating subject for so many people who care deeply about the Johnnies, who sport their St. John’s gear all around town now, who fill talk radio and message boards like redmen.com with the kind of fervor and fury that fuel these splendid discussions. Funny thing, too: The most devoted diehards were doing that five years ago, too. It was just a smaller core then.
The last five years — Lavin’s years — have grown that brand. Is that enough? Do you live with Lavin’s shortcomings and with what inevitably will be a difficult period of rebuilding the next few years? Or do you hope — demand — for better than that?"
Before Lavin arrived, I had basically mothballed any St. John's gear. It was an embarrassment to wear it based on how irrelevant our basketball team had begun. Since then my kids gift me with all kinds of St. John's gear that I wear with more pride.
The last five years — Lavin’s years — have grown that brand. Is that enough? Do you live with Lavin’s shortcomings and with what inevitably will be a difficult period of rebuilding the next few years? Or do you hope — demand — for better than that?"
Before Lavin arrived, I had basically mothballed any St. John's gear. It was an embarrassment to wear it based on how irrelevant our basketball team had begun. Since then my kids gift me with all kinds of St. John's gear that I wear with more pride.
jerseyshorejohnny
Well-known member
There is a small core group that have contributed in good times and bad to help raise money for scholarships.
The most recent Presidents Dinner raised more money than ever and the 2013 event surprisingly exceeded expectations when everything was hitting the proverbial fan.
Obviously, I do understand why someone would not contribute during the CC time frame.
That said, HISTORICALLY less than 10% of alumni make ANY (even $25) annual contribution
Let's hope the future fosters an enviornment that will see a dramatic increase in pride and contributions.
I think that is something we can all agree.