Mike Anderson - Recruiting, Coaching, Etc.

Here is the mjmaherjr scale of my excitement on recruiting equivalent to my lobster roll scale. A 5 out of 10. The difference is like a great chef who can make that lobster roll better with some great bread some visually appealing stats like great fries next to it or some great clawbiance with water in the background I know CMA can coach kids up. Can he do it with these kids ? Time will tell but he has a track record. Plus the clawbiance water factor he has covered at Carnesseca with people dripping pools of water sweat from the heat. So while I’m not excited I do know if you told me last year about the Heron injury and Gig kind of disappointing I’d think we would have sucked pretty bad but we were competitive at the end and as far as I’m concerned we won the big east tournament
 
[quote="mjmaherjr" post=396332]Here is the mjmaherjr scale of my excitement on recruiting equivalent to my lobster roll scale. A 5 out of 10. The difference is like a great chef who can make that lobster roll better with some great bread some visually appealing stats like great fries next to it or some great clawbiance with water in the background I know CMA can coach kids up. Can he do it with these kids ? Time will tell but he has a track record. Plus the clawbiance water factor he has covered at Carnesseca with people dripping pools of water sweat from the heat. So while I’m not excited I do know if you told me last year about the Heron injury and Gig kind of disappointing I’d think we would have sucked pretty bad but we were competitive at the end and as far as I’m concerned we won the big east tournament[/quote]

I'm confident in his ability to make a Friendly's lobster roll taste like a Dock House lobster roll upwards of 25 times a year. Is it enough when we take on teams who land kids who arrive tasting like Bostwick's? Sometimes it will be, sometimes not. The key is to taste like Dock House rolls enough in big games that local Bostwick's kids will want to stay home.
 
[quote="L J S A" post=396333][quote="mjmaherjr" post=396332]Here is the mjmaherjr scale of my excitement on recruiting equivalent to my lobster roll scale. A 5 out of 10. The difference is like a great chef who can make that lobster roll better with some great bread some visually appealing stats like great fries next to it or some great clawbiance with water in the background I know CMA can coach kids up. Can he do it with these kids ? Time will tell but he has a track record. Plus the clawbiance water factor he has covered at Carnesseca with people dripping pools of water sweat from the heat. So while I’m not excited I do know if you told me last year about the Heron injury and Gig kind of disappointing I’d think we would have sucked pretty bad but we were competitive at the end and as far as I’m concerned we won the big east tournament[/quote]

I'm confident in his ability to make a Friendly's lobster roll taste like a Dock House lobster roll upwards of 25 times a year. Is it enough when we take on teams who land kids who arrive tasting like Bostwick's? Sometimes it will be, sometimes not. The key is to taste like Dock House rolls enough in big games that local Bostwick's kids will want to stay home.[/quote] Clawtastic analogy
 
Here is my take on CMA leaving Arkansas. I spoke to someone involved in the Arkansas Athletic Dept while on vacation and they said a big reason he was let go was because the new AD wanted him to make some changes to his staff and he refused. With the level of success he was having and knowing he would be fired for not making the changes suggested, I appreciate his loyalty to his staff. He is a very good coach (of basketball and life), an honorable man, and I feel lucky to have him representing St. John's.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=396326]
Btw Lavin went 46-44 and went to 2 NCAAs and 2 NITs at SJU. A second tier BE program as you stated in a MUCH DEEPER TOUGHER BE. That is comparable to Andersons run at Arky, no? Did u stand up for Lavin when he got fired? I think you owe him an apology, no?[/quote]

As reluctant as I am to get dragged into another Lavin conversation:

1. I give him next to zero credit for the first NCAA appearance with a team full of somebody else's seniors and Dunlap to do the actual coaching.
2. He's a godawful basketball coach.
3. He is a good salesman but with SJU to sell instead of UCLA that amounted to taking chances on far too many players who had athletic ability but character concerns.
4. It's true that the residue of the unfocused turmoil of his tenure is what you listed: two NITs and an NCAA appearance along with a .500 record.

IMHO the bottom line is that Lavin is a coach who rose or fell based almost entirely on the talent of the players he brought in (and if you go back to his UCLA years there's an argument to be made that he was actually a detriment given the talent he brought in there).

Anderson is the polar opposite - he's an absolutely professional coach who brings in character players, develops them, and gets the most out of them. And from a results standpoint I'm pretty sure he'll do better than Lavin's .500 record here as well as the postseason record. He's just a far better fit for the platform he has to work with here than Lavin was.

Good topic to revisit in 4 years when we can compare the body of work at the same point in time. Assuming we spot Anderson a hypothetical NIT appearance for last season, my guess is that the post-season figures will be about the same but the overall record will be much better. But I think the difference is that Anderson will keep moving forward from there as opposed to being in the broadcast booth.
 
[quote="Anthony Mattia" post=396340]Here is my take on CMA leaving Arkansas. I spoke to someone involved in the Arkansas Athletic Dept while on vacation and they said a big reason he was let go was because the new AD wanted him to make some changes to his staff and he refused. With the level of success he was having and knowing he would be fired for not making the changes suggested, I appreciate his loyalty to his staff. He is a very good coach (of basketball and life), an honorable man, and I feel lucky to have him representing St. John's.[/quote]

It's plausible that Hunter Yurachek, the new AD, pressured CMA to make changes he knew Coach Anderson would refuse...to enable him to hire 'his' guy.
 
I will judge staff recruiting over three cycles.

Re: CMA as HC, who the hell are we kidding? Net of a competent guy like Cluess, there was no one knocking down SJU door with a proven track record like Anderson. The job here is not only tough, but not a destination job by any stretch. Porter Moser looks like he used the job here as leverage for a raise and imo is not in the same league as CMA. Anderson dropped from the sky willing to tackle the SJU challenge and finish his career on a positive note. Celebrate that.

At the end of the day we will find out if he can put a roster together to compete consistently in the Big East to complement his sideline, player development abilities. If not so be it, but there is no doubt imo landing him was very fortunate for such a mediocre program that has struggled far more than it has succeeded for many years.
 
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[quote="Anthony Mattia" post=396340]Here is my take on CMA leaving Arkansas. I spoke to someone involved in the Arkansas Athletic Dept while on vacation and they said a big reason he was let go was because the new AD wanted him to make some changes to his staff and he refused. With the level of success he was having and knowing he would be fired for not making the changes suggested, I appreciate his loyalty to his staff. He is a very good coach (of basketball and life), an honorable man, and I feel lucky to have him representing St. John's.[/quote]

This is also what I heard as well from one of the insiders I know and trust. Basically it was a setup, CMA was gone the moment a new AD was hired, barring him winning the SEC and making a deep tournament run, which would have granted him coach of the year with that young team he had. And even if he did that it would have probably only bought him another year or two.

And from what I heard from the same source when Yurachek was first hired, when he asked him his thoughts on CMA behind closed doors, he said "Not Impressed." And I'll be honest I don't like Yurachek at all, he's an attention seeker and loves to control everything, he wanted a yes man coach that he could share limelight with, and CMA wasn't that, CMA focuses on the kids and keeps attention off of himself. Musselman is the exact opposite, and fits Yurachek perfect. Both like being the center of attention,both love making videos of themselves, and love people talking about them. Musselman is probably the most active head coach on twitter I've ever seen, he's probably more active than most teenage girls. It's worked recruiting wise so far, some kids love it, so can't knock it too much, but just not my preferred style, I'm more old school.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=396357]I will judge staff recruiting over three cycles.

Re: CMA as HC,,who the hell are we kidding? Net of a competent guy like Cluess, there was no one knocking down SJU door with a proven track record like Anderson. The job here is not only tough, but not a destination job by any stretch. Porter Moser looks like he used the job here as leverage for a raise and imo is not in the same league as CMA. Anderson dropped from the sky willing to tackle the SJU challenge and finish his career on a positive note. Celebrate that.

At the end of the day we will find out if he can put a roster together to compete consistently in the Big East to complement his sideline, player development abilities. If not so be it, but there is no doubt imo landing him was very fortunate for such a mediocre program that has struggled far more than it has succeeded for many years.[/quote]

One indicator for me that we lucked out with Anderson was that in that 2 or 3 month window when Mullin's days were winding down and through the frustrating coaching search that followed, SJU was really being treated as a punchline. National media guys, social media trolls and buddies who root for rival programs were just dunking all over our program and it was really tough to defend because the truth was things looked bleak: the big season we had been building to for a couple of years had flamed out in an anti-climatic First Four loss, most of the key guys were transferring or going pro and nobody we pursued was taking the coaching job.

When Anderson was announced it weirdly got quiet. A couple of media people criticized (Goodman of course because he's Goodman) but by far the reaction of most people seemed to be that while it was unexpected and maybe even an odd fit, Anderson could coach. He's not considered an elite coach but he has almost universal respect from the people, sites, podcasts, etc that I get most of my college basketball information from.

So I also don't know if Anderson will lead us back to the glory days or even be considered a success in the end but I am more optimistic than I've been in years.
 
QueensBall Wrote:

"...So I also don't know if Anderson will lead us back to the glory days or even be considered a success in the end but I am more optimistic than I've been in years..."

Nor do I, but I'd be surprised if our CMA-coached teams do not invariably produce winning seasons, make a few runs in the BET, and play in a few NCAA Tournaments--again with a run or two.
That's not 'our glory days' of a Final Four, a couple BET Championships, and an Elite Eight performance--but damn, it's leagues better than the past 20 woeful years, and I'll take it...gladly.
 
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[quote="Chicago Days" post=396363]

Nor do I, but I'd be surprised if our CMA-coached teams do not invariably produce winning seasons, make a few runs in the BET, and play in a few NCAA Tournaments--again with a run or two.
That's not 'our glory days' of a Final Four, a couple BET Championships, and an Elite Eight performance--but damn, it's leagues better than the past 20 woeful years, and I'll take it...gladly.[/quote]

In other words, the CMA expectation is that the floor is Providence and the ceiling might be Marquette a la Buzz Williams. I think that's on target.
 
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I recently played golf with a couple of friends and a guy from out of town was added to our group to make a foursome. During the round, he saw the St. John's head cover on my fairway wood, said to me that he remembered that St John's used to be good in basketball and asked me if we still had a team.

I can't wait for CMA and his crew to help make us relevant again!!
 
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[quote="lawmanfan" post=396342][quote="fordham96" post=396326]
Btw Lavin went 46-44 and went to 2 NCAAs and 2 NITs at SJU. A second tier BE program as you stated in a MUCH DEEPER TOUGHER BE. That is comparable to Andersons run at Arky, no? Did u stand up for Lavin when he got fired? I think you owe him an apology, no?[/quote]

As reluctant as I am to get dragged into another Lavin conversation:

1. I give him next to zero credit for the first NCAA appearance with a team full of somebody else's seniors and Dunlap to do the actual coaching.
2. He's a godawful basketball coach.
3. He is a good salesman but with SJU to sell instead of UCLA that amounted to taking chances on far too many players who had athletic ability but character concerns.
4. It's true that the residue of the unfocused turmoil of his tenure is what you listed: two NITs and an NCAA appearance along with a .500 record.

IMHO the bottom line is that Lavin is a coach who rose or fell based almost entirely on the talent of the players he brought in (and if you go back to his UCLA years there's an argument to be made that he was actually a detriment given the talent he brought in there).

Anderson is the polar opposite - he's an absolutely professional coach who brings in character players, develops them, and gets the most out of them. And from a results standpoint I'm pretty sure he'll do better than Lavin's .500 record here as well as the postseason record. He's just a far better fit for the platform he has to work with here than Lavin was.

Good topic to revisit in 4 years when we can compare the body of work at the same point in time. Assuming we spot Anderson a hypothetical NIT appearance for last season, my guess is that the post-season figures will be about the same but the overall record will be much better. But I think the difference is that Anderson will keep moving forward from there as opposed to being in the broadcast booth.[/quote]

You say these opinions like they are fact. YOU give him zero credit for year. This one is my favorite, he gets no credit for coaching a team that never did anything for 3 years but go 5-13, 6-12, 6-12 and get their coach fired and was picked THIRTEENTH. Th idea that he did not recruit the kids is somehow HIS FAULT. So to get credit for coaching a team that he COACHED is to only be able to coach kids YOU recruit. Really, that is the standard? And give me a break about Dunlap, SJU's worst seasonin his 5 years was the year Laving barely coached. Does he get credit for those LOSSES too under your standard no. But back to coaching someone else's players is that really your standard. Someone should have told Lavin to cut all of his incoming players that year because YOU don't believe he would get credit. He should give back his salary. I mean this sincerely, this is literally the dumbest argument made about his first year.

The other part of this argument is it is made out of pure convenience. Simply put it is CONVENIENT for you to dismiss his first year because you say he did not do a good job. Hence I can't give him credit for something that was good, therefore I have to INVENT a dumb argument as opposed to admitting my mistake. Except of course I helped you with that.

This will be my last thing, you are now saying that his recruiting is so good that he failed to live up to it and that was a negative, which I don't necessarily disagree with. I have said the team he had for year 4 even without Harkless was as talented a team as we have seen since the early Jarvis days That's fine. The flip side to that is evidently we should hope a coach recruits mediocre that way if he coaches mediocre we can say he lived up to expectations?

The last part about giving Coach time is something I have been saying repeatedly. All I said was Coach was FIRED from Arkansas for performance. That is an unmitigated FACT that again is not subject to your opinion. And something you faile to mention again and again and again....
 
[quote="fordham96" post=396378][quote="lawmanfan" post=396342][quote="fordham96" post=396326]
Btw Lavin went 46-44 and went to 2 NCAAs and 2 NITs at SJU. A second tier BE program as you stated in a MUCH DEEPER TOUGHER BE. That is comparable to Andersons run at Arky, no? Did u stand up for Lavin when he got fired? I think you owe him an apology, no?[/quote]

As reluctant as I am to get dragged into another Lavin conversation:

1. I give him next to zero credit for the first NCAA appearance with a team full of somebody else's seniors and Dunlap to do the actual coaching.
2. He's a godawful basketball coach.
3. He is a good salesman but with SJU to sell instead of UCLA that amounted to taking chances on far too many players who had athletic ability but character concerns.
4. It's true that the residue of the unfocused turmoil of his tenure is what you listed: two NITs and an NCAA appearance along with a .500 record.

IMHO the bottom line is that Lavin is a coach who rose or fell based almost entirely on the talent of the players he brought in (and if you go back to his UCLA years there's an argument to be made that he was actually a detriment given the talent he brought in there).

Anderson is the polar opposite - he's an absolutely professional coach who brings in character players, develops them, and gets the most out of them. And from a results standpoint I'm pretty sure he'll do better than Lavin's .500 record here as well as the postseason record. He's just a far better fit for the platform he has to work with here than Lavin was.

Good topic to revisit in 4 years when we can compare the body of work at the same point in time. Assuming we spot Anderson a hypothetical NIT appearance for last season, my guess is that the post-season figures will be about the same but the overall record will be much better. But I think the difference is that Anderson will keep moving forward from there as opposed to being in the broadcast booth.[/quote]

You say these opinions like they are fact. YOU give him zero credit for year. This one is my favorite, he gets no credit for coaching a team that never did anything for 3 years but go 5-13, 6-12, 6-12 and get their coach fired and was picked THIRTEENTH. Th idea that he did not recruit the kids is somehow HIS FAULT. So to get credit for coaching a team that he COACHED is to only be able to coach kids YOU recruit. Really, that is the standard? And give me a break about Dunlap, SJU's worst seasonin his 5 years was the year Laving barely coached. Does he get credit for those LOSSES too under your standard no. But back to coaching someone else's players is that really your standard. Someone should have told Lavin to cut all of his incoming players that year because YOU don't believe he would get credit. He should give back his salary. I mean this sincerely, this is literally the dumbest argument made about his first year.

The other part of this argument is it is made out of pure convenience. Simply put it is CONVENIENT for you to dismiss his first year because you say he did not do a good job. Hence I can't give him credit for something that was good, therefore I have to INVENT a dumb argument as opposed to admitting my mistake. Except of course I helped you with that.

This will be my last thing, you are now saying that his recruiting is so good that he failed to live up to it and that was a negative, which I don't necessarily disagree with. I have said the team he had for year 4 even without Harkless was as talented a team as we have seen since the early Jarvis days That's fine. The flip side to that is evidently we should hope a coach recruits mediocre that way if he coaches mediocre we can say he lived up to expectations?

The last part about giving Coach time is something I have been saying repeatedly. All I said was Coach was FIRED from Arkansas for performance. That is an unmitigated FACT that again is not subject to your opinion. And something you faile to mention again and again and again....[/quote]

Incorrect. The only thing that is fact is that he was fired from Arkansas. No more no less. The reasons for the firing are between him and the AD. You choose to interpret it as related to performance others do not agree with you. And please don’t call other posters opinions DUMB. They are their opinions just like your opinions are just that, your opinions, no more no less, and your opinion is anything but gospel, it is merely your opinion.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=396357]I will judge staff recruiting over three cycles.

Re: CMA as HC, who the hell are we kidding? Net of a competent guy like Cluess, there was no one knocking down SJU door with a proven track record like Anderson. The job here is not only tough, but not a destination job by any stretch. Porter Moser looks like he used the job here as leverage for a raise and imo is not in the same league as CMA. Anderson dropped from the sky willing to tackle the SJU challenge and finish his career on a positive note. Celebrate that.

At the end of the day we will find out if he can put a roster together to compete consistently in the Big East to complement his sideline, player development abilities. If not so be it, but there is no doubt imo landing him was very fortunate for such a mediocre program that has struggled far more than it has succeeded for many years.[/quote]

I just don't really know what coach people realistically think would come here and dominate the way they are expecting. Like you said, coaches were not knocking down the door to come here. CMA by all means is someone we didn't deserve, and probably as good as we can expect. Outside of cheating, can anyone realistically recruit better at St. John's in 2020? With the quality staff we have and the non stop hard work they are putting into recruiting, that's really all you can ask for.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=396357]Porter Moser looks like he used the job here as leverage for a raise and imo is not in the same league as CMA.[/quote]

That Loyola team played some of the prettiest ball I'd seen in a long time . . . and I still wanted to punch something when it looked like Moser might be the coach. And he was still infinitely better than Jones. Of all the choices we were given, we lucked into far and away the best one.

Will it work out? I'm pretty confident it will. And if it doesn't, I think CMA's floor is still high enough that we'll be a more appealing destination during the next search.

As for recruiting, I don't think we're getting a big.* SF is an imperative. Land that, and focus all energy on Cuffe and I'm happy.

(*If Cuffe decided to pull the trigger early, I think that could help land a semi name-brand big.)
 
I take a bit of a contrarian view and blame the failed St. John's Administration for the reduced prestige of the men's basketball program rather than Coaches Roberts, Lavin and Mullin.

CMA is the first coach with seasoned/ successful hires with head coaching experience experience since Jarvis.

A knowledgeable Administration at StJohn's would not have hired Roberts Lavin or Mullin. Then again a knowledgeable/ focused Administration would also not have allowed events attributed to Cecilia Chang or its senior associate athletic director for external affairs who was fired for scalping tickets for visiting teams.
 
[quote="L J S A" post=396382](*If Cuffe decided to pull the trigger early, I think that could help land a semi name-brand big.)[/quote]
So you think we could land a Meister Brau level player instead of just a generic Brau?
 
[quote="Spocky Ramone" post=396385][quote="L J S A" post=396382](*If Cuffe decided to pull the trigger early, I think that could help land a semi name-brand big.)[/quote]
So you think we could land a Meister Brau level player instead of just a generic Brau?[/quote]

I'm hoping for North Coast Brewing Co.-level player -- someone who isn't as famous as other names but is in reality possibly better if fans give it a shot.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=396378][quote="lawmanfan" post=396342][quote="fordham96" post=396326]
Btw Lavin went 46-44 and went to 2 NCAAs and 2 NITs at SJU. A second tier BE program as you stated in a MUCH DEEPER TOUGHER BE. That is comparable to Andersons run at Arky, no? Did u stand up for Lavin when he got fired? I think you owe him an apology, no?[/quote]

As reluctant as I am to get dragged into another Lavin conversation:

1. I give him next to zero credit for the first NCAA appearance with a team full of somebody else's seniors and Dunlap to do the actual coaching.
2. He's a godawful basketball coach.
3. He is a good salesman but with SJU to sell instead of UCLA that amounted to taking chances on far too many players who had athletic ability but character concerns.
4. It's true that the residue of the unfocused turmoil of his tenure is what you listed: two NITs and an NCAA appearance along with a .500 record.

IMHO the bottom line is that Lavin is a coach who rose or fell based almost entirely on the talent of the players he brought in (and if you go back to his UCLA years there's an argument to be made that he was actually a detriment given the talent he brought in there).

Anderson is the polar opposite - he's an absolutely professional coach who brings in character players, develops them, and gets the most out of them. And from a results standpoint I'm pretty sure he'll do better than Lavin's .500 record here as well as the postseason record. He's just a far better fit for the platform he has to work with here than Lavin was.

Good topic to revisit in 4 years when we can compare the body of work at the same point in time. Assuming we spot Anderson a hypothetical NIT appearance for last season, my guess is that the post-season figures will be about the same but the overall record will be much better. But I think the difference is that Anderson will keep moving forward from there as opposed to being in the broadcast booth.[/quote]

You say these opinions like they are fact. YOU give him zero credit for year. This one is my favorite, he gets no credit for coaching a team that never did anything for 3 years but go 5-13, 6-12, 6-12 and get their coach fired and was picked THIRTEENTH. Th idea that he did not recruit the kids is somehow HIS FAULT. So to get credit for coaching a team that he COACHED is to only be able to coach kids YOU recruit. Really, that is the standard? And give me a break about Dunlap, SJU's worst seasonin his 5 years was the year Laving barely coached. Does he get credit for those LOSSES too under your standard no. But back to coaching someone else's players is that really your standard. Someone should have told Lavin to cut all of his incoming players that year because YOU don't believe he would get credit. He should give back his salary. I mean this sincerely, this is literally the dumbest argument made about his first year.

The other part of this argument is it is made out of pure convenience. Simply put it is CONVENIENT for you to dismiss his first year because you say he did not do a good job. Hence I can't give him credit for something that was good, therefore I have to INVENT a dumb argument as opposed to admitting my mistake. Except of course I helped you with that.

This will be my last thing, you are now saying that his recruiting is so good that he failed to live up to it and that was a negative, which I don't necessarily disagree with. I have said the team he had for year 4 even without Harkless was as talented a team as we have seen since the early Jarvis days That's fine. The flip side to that is evidently we should hope a coach recruits mediocre that way if he coaches mediocre we can say he lived up to expectations?

The last part about giving Coach time is something I have been saying repeatedly. All I said was Coach was FIRED from Arkansas for performance. That is an unmitigated FACT that again is not subject to your opinion. And something you faile to mention again and again and again....[/quote]

Love how certain posters on here have no problem absolutely trashing Lavin who was nothing but a class act while he coached here, but will cry if you criticize their precious CMA. Lavin had to overcome cancer, his father dying, and the Norm Roberts era, and still brought in the best talent SJU has had since the 90s. There is no doubt in my mind if he was given an extension like he deserved we'd be in a much better place right now.

Lavin gets no credit for turning around a group of kids who had no success under Norm Roberts whatsoever, but CMA gets praise for the "great" job he did last year with Mullin's players. Way to be completely hypocritical.

The talent level we had last season is likely the highest it will ever be under CMA, so hope you're ready to be just about .500 every year. I don't see any LJ Figeroas, Mustafa Herons, or heck even Greg Williams caliber players coming here anytime soon.
 
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