(Miami Invit) Georgia Tech, Sat. Dec. 1, 12 Noon, ESPNU / 570 WMCA

[quote="Class of 72" post=306104][quote="rawdognyc" post=306077][quote="Section3" post=306072][quote="Delaware" post=305928]Just watching this debacle after being out all day. What a disgrace in so many ways. Oh, and by the way, the casual look by Mullin really is piss poor. Show a little more respect for the position and the university and look the damn part, especially on the road.[/quote]
Not sure how many of these tourneys you watch. But, most coaches dress casual in these type of environments.

For those watchers of “The OffIice”...as Meredith would say “Its casual day!”[/quote]

That bum coach k wore short sleeves in Hawaii. Such a disgrace to Duke.

Honestly I couldn't care less what Mullin wears as long as we continue to do well. The things people actually complain about on this forum never cease to amaze me.[/quote]

Your complaining about people complaining belongs on the complaint thread. I also could care less about what Mullin wears with the same proviso "as long as we continue to do well."
As soon as we start losing however I'm going to start with his poor taste in footwear. Then I'll work my way up to his belt and ties. Then I'll complain about why the Chaplin always has the same suit on for every game, etc. And I'm not one to complain.;)[/quote]

Lol..nah..I said I was amazed by what they complain about. :p
 
Anticipating a Mike Zaun Op-Ed on coaches wearing briefs v jockey shorts v commando. :)
 
I could care less about what a coach wears. Results is what matters. Look at Bill Belichick!
 
[quote="SJU61982" post=306096]

One thing I learned about Miami, from their years in the Big East:

They have no fan base whatsoever. The football team is the first interest there, and there is no second interest. If the men's basketball team wins three straight national championships starting this year, the program would still run second fiddle to football.[/quote]

But they have GREAT cheerleaders!!!
 
Agree it's not a huge deal obviously, but just stating the fact that attire clearly affects perception whether or not that perception is fair or truthful. That's an innate fact of humans. If this were not true, people would wear PJ's to job interviews and at work. So it's not true that it doesn't have any effect on perception. Many studies in psych haven't been replicated well but this one has. Of course Belicheck, Jobs, Gates, etc. are exceptions to the rule. It's a faulty comparison to Mullin though, because he does not yet have all that winning capital under him as a coach unless you think Mullin's as successful a coach as Bill Gates is a businessman. Not harping on this, just find it interesting being in the field of psychology.
 
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Should be like baseball; put him in a uniform. He can wear the short shorts he wore as a player.:)
 
[quote="austour" post=306060]Just win ugly baby.[/quote]

See people are looking at this team the wrong way. Before season people were comparing this team to Artest Elite 8 team. One problem is this team is missing Ron Artest. Also missing Ty Grant. That team had TWO first round draft choices and 3 guys that played in the pros.
This team more closely resembles the Marcus Hatten Junior year team with a much more talented supporting cast. People got too carried away with Heron and LJ. Both are good players as is Simon but this team will go as far as Ponds will take us. I think Ponds has potential to be better than Hatten and as previously mentioned Ponds supporting cast is way better. I still think depending on match up this team can win a game or 2 in NCAA. As far as winning ugly, they are playing close games and might have the best closer in college basketball. We are what we are.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=306111]Agree it's not a huge deal obviously, but just stating the fact that attire clearly affects perception whether or not that perception is fair or truthful. That's an innate fact of humans. If this were not true, people would wear PJ's to job interviews and at work. So it's not true that it doesn't have any effect on perception. Many studies in psych haven't been replicated well but this one has. Of course Belicheck, Jobs, Gates, etc. are exceptions to the rule. It's a faulty comparison to Mullin though, because he does not yet have all that winning capital under him as a coach unless you think Mullin's as successful a coach as Bill Gates is a businessman. Not harping on this, just find it interesting being in the field of psychology.[/quote]



I am not a psychologist but I have an ungergraduate degree in Human Service and Counseling from St Johns and a Masters Degree in Rehabilitation Counseling from NYU. One of the first things that I learned was never to be "Judgmental". I also learned that Perception is not Reality.

I have been to many games on the West Coast where coaches dress the way our staff did on Saturday. Not sure why this is a problem.

All I know is at the present time, we are 7-0. Were all the games easy, hell no, but somehow the team had the resilience to play hard and overcome their mistakes. Being down double figures and coming back to win shows mental fortitude. It is also a credit to the coaching staff because if they panicked, the players would also.

I believe that as the season progresses, the players will become a more cohesive unit.
 
Clark and Heron deserve a lot of credit for this win. Positionless basketball sounds fun and is going to help this team be a nightmare to guard on offense, but it's not so fun when you are giving away 3-4 inches and 30-40 pounds on defense - that's not positionless, that's a mismatch. After the team got collectively waxed on the interior in the first half Clark/Heron really went to work in the second half and didn't allow off days offensively to effect them. The 6 rebounds each doesn't accurately reflect how many possessions they helped us wrap up in the second half. At one point late in the game Clark was crouched down during a free throw and looked wiped, and still gave max energy for a few more key possessions before fouling out. Heron lead the team in minutes and didn't fatigue. Incredible effort from both.

Scoring is not going to be a problem for this team a lot of nights, especially once Ponds, Heron, and Figgy all really get in a groove together which I think will happen sooner than later. Where a lot of close games are likely to be won or lost is in what Clark/Heron/Simon/Figgy do in playing bigger than they are on defense/defensive backboard. That was a bigtime effort from those guys on Saturday and was a major part of turning what could have easily been a loss into a win.

Interested to see how Mikey Dixon comes along. Seems a little overmatched athletically - particularly on the defensive end - but gave good minutes/production against Cal and VCU and was out there for much of the positive run against GT despite not doing much and a few key letdowns defensively. We really need him to be something because this team just does not have much depth.

On that point I think getting Keita back is less about whether or not he's a big. I think it's clearly helpful that he is so that we can show that look based on game situation, but more importantly I think he's more capable of contributing than Dixon or Trimble are, regardless of position. And until something changes I think that's sort of the litmus test for this rotation - can you give more than Dixon and Trimble? Because right now there is a significant fall off after the big 5. Even if you want the minutes concentrated in those 5 you still need a 7-8 man rotation or the grind of a season can take a toll. Right now we don't completely have that, but I think we have a chance to with Keita back and Dixon/Trimble developing and getting more comfortable in their roles.

Teams should not want to play zone against us. They may prefer zone to man for obvious reasons, but they should not want to play zone as our first 5 should be able to eviscerate it and we started to see signs of that in the second half Saturday. Ponds and Figgy in the wing gaps, Heron and Simon on the lane lines, Clark at the 3 line and wish the defense good luck.
 
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[quote="rawdognyc" post=306077][quote="Section3" post=306072][quote="Delaware" post=305928]Just watching this debacle after being out all day. What a disgrace in so many ways. Oh, and by the way, the casual look by Mullin really is piss poor. Show a little more respect for the position and the university and look the damn part, especially on the road.[/quote]
Not sure how many of these tourneys you watch. But, most coaches dress casual in these type of environments.

For those watchers of “The OffIice”...as Meredith would say “Its casual day!”[/quote]

That bum coach k wore short sleeves in Hawaii. Such a disgrace to Duke.

Honestly I couldn't care less what Mullin wears as long as we continue to do well. The things people actually complain about on this forum never cease to amaze me.[/quote]

Thanks Raw + Section 3 -
Chris Mullin is neither Brooks Brothers nor GQ. -
and
as for the critique-types on this site - seem there is the prototype "glass half filled" DNA involved and just difficult to take even a modest/positive perspective. Always need to insert the negative, the cynical. It must hurt to be even a little buoyant and encouraging.
Imagine if we were 6-1, 5-2 or - God forbid - 0-7.
Imagine when we lose a BE game which we will, games (plural)!

all the best - nice season to enjoy - not perfect but nice.
 
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[quote="we are sju" post=306114][quote="austour" post=306060]Just win ugly baby.[/quote]

See people are looking at this team the wrong way. Before season people were comparing this team to Artest Elite 8 team. One problem is this team is missing Ron Artest. Also missing Ty Grant. That team had TWO first round draft choices and 3 guys that played in the pros.
This team more closely resembles the Marcus Hatten Junior year team with a much more talented supporting cast. People got too carried away with Heron and LJ. Both are good players as is Simon but this team will go as far as Ponds will take us. I think Ponds has potential to be better than Hatten and as previously mentioned Ponds supporting cast is way better. I still think depending on match up this team can win a game or 2 in NCAA. As far as winning ugly, they are playing close games and might have the best closer in college basketball. We are what we are.[/quote]
To me this team most resembles the 99-00 Big East champions.

6'1 Barkley 6'1 Ponds
6'4 Bootsy 6'5 Heron
6'5 Postell 6'6 Figueroa
6'7 Jessie 6'5 Simon
6'6 Glover 6'7 Clark

6'3 Gray 6'2 Dixon
6'9 Emmanuel 6'9 Keita + 6'3 Trimble


99-00 went 7 deep. We can go 8. Neither had much size down low but a bevy of big wings.
 
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Really odd reading this site now. Maybe people have eliminated the traumas of 2 years ago from their memories, but just a reminder:

We started off 2-5 in 2016-17. This wasn't Mullin's first year, it was his second. Shamorie Ponds was a freshman.

Ws:
Bethune-Cookman
Binghamton

Ls:
Minnesota
Michigan St
VCU
Old Dominion
Delaware St

We also later lost to LIU Brooklyn and Penn State during December (before the only bright spot- blowing out Syracuse). The season was already over at this point 2 years ago.

Compare that to 2018-19:
Ws:
Loyola (MD)
Bowling Green
Rutgers
California
VCU
Maryland Eastern Shore
Georgia Tech

Ls:
 
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Mullin's in the basketball Hall of Fame. He could wear what he wants. Tournaments in Hawaii and Florida are meant for hot weather attire. Hardaway and Pastner both wore suits. It didn't help. Recruits may consider a number of factors, but whether Mullin wears a suit or not isn't one of them.
 
[quote="Marillac" post=306135][quote="we are sju" post=306114][quote="austour" post=306060]Just win ugly baby.[/quote]

See people are looking at this team the wrong way. Before season people were comparing this team to Artest Elite 8 team. One problem is this team is missing Ron Artest. Also missing Ty Grant. That team had TWO first round draft choices and 3 guys that played in the pros.
This team more closely resembles the Marcus Hatten Junior year team with a much more talented supporting cast. People got too carried away with Heron and LJ. Both are good players as is Simon but this team will go as far as Ponds will take us. I think Ponds has potential to be better than Hatten and as previously mentioned Ponds supporting cast is way better. I still think depending on match up this team can win a game or 2 in NCAA. As far as winning ugly, they are playing close games and might have the best closer in college basketball. We are what we are.[/quote]
To me this team most resembles the 99-00 Big East champions.

6'1 Barkley 6'1 Ponds
6'4 Bootsy 6'5 Heron
6'5 Postell 6'6 Figueroa
6'7 Jessie 6'5 Simon
6'6 Glover 6'7 Clark

6'3 Gray 6'2 Dixon
6'9 Emmanuel 6'9 Keita + 6'3 Trimble


99-00 went 7 deep. We can go 8. Neither had much size down low but a bevy of big wings.[/quote]

Postell, Glover and Jessie that year played bigger than their size and were a lot tougher than anyone on this roster. One main difference but not a bad comparison.
Again Herron, LJ and Simon are good but this is still far and away Ponds team. Ponds has done a GREAT job of letting the game come to him so far. If they supporting cast is playing well he slides into background. When they struggle he wins game for us. I just hope that those on here realize he can't do that all the time though. There is going to come a game where we need him to carry team to win and he won't be able to.
 
[quote="Ray Morgan" post=306137]Mullin's in the basketball Hall of Fame. He could wear what he wants. Tournaments in Hawaii and Florida are meant for hot weather attire. Hardaway and Pastner both wore suits. It didn't help. Recruits may consider a number of factors, but whether Mullin wears a suit or not isn't one of them.[/quote]

Whole conversation is pretty stupid. As it was with Lavin as well.
 
The clothing argument is one to have when you have a bad record. If he keeps winning, he could coach wearing nothing but his wife's underwear and I wouldn't bat an eye.
 
[quote="we are sju" post=306141][quote="Marillac" post=306135][quote="we are sju" post=306114][quote="austour" post=306060]Just win ugly baby.[/quote]

See people are looking at this team the wrong way. Before season people were comparing this team to Artest Elite 8 team. One problem is this team is missing Ron Artest. Also missing Ty Grant. That team had TWO first round draft choices and 3 guys that played in the pros.
This team more closely resembles the Marcus Hatten Junior year team with a much more talented supporting cast. People got too carried away with Heron and LJ. Both are good players as is Simon but this team will go as far as Ponds will take us. I think Ponds has potential to be better than Hatten and as previously mentioned Ponds supporting cast is way better. I still think depending on match up this team can win a game or 2 in NCAA. As far as winning ugly, they are playing close games and might have the best closer in college basketball. We are what we are.[/quote]
To me this team most resembles the 99-00 Big East champions.

6'1 Barkley 6'1 Ponds
6'4 Bootsy 6'5 Heron
6'5 Postell 6'6 Figueroa
6'7 Jessie 6'5 Simon
6'6 Glover 6'7 Clark

6'3 Gray 6'2 Dixon
6'9 Emmanuel 6'9 Keita + 6'3 Trimble


99-00 went 7 deep. We can go 8. Neither had much size down low but a bevy of big wings.[/quote]

Postell, Glover and Jessie that year played bigger than their size and were a lot tougher than anyone on this roster. One main difference but not a bad comparison.
Again Herron, LJ and Simon are good but this is still far and away Ponds team. Ponds has done a GREAT job of letting the game come to him so far. If they supporting cast is playing well he slides into background. When they struggle he wins game for us. I just hope that those on here realize he can't do that all the time though. There is going to come a game where we need him to carry team to win and he won't be able to.[/quote]

Heron plays as hard and physical as anyone I've seen here. He's also the same height as Glover in reality. I also think Simon has the potential to be head and shoulders better than Jessie was. Very similar players actually...almost identical listed height and weight, neither shoot well, both fancy themselves as point-forwards and rack up aissts and turnovers, both can rebound well. Justin has standout athleticism though and Jessie didn't.

You won't get any argument from me that those Jarvis teams played more physical (with the exception of Heron), but this team is more skilled offensively.
 
[quote="rawdognyc" post=306077][quote="Section3" post=306072][quote="Delaware" post=305928]Just watching this debacle after being out all day. What a disgrace in so many ways. Oh, and by the way, the casual look by Mullin really is piss poor. Show a little more respect for the position and the university and look the damn part, especially on the road.[/quote]
Not sure how many of these tourneys you watch. But, most coaches dress casual in these type of environments.

For those watchers of “The OffIice”...as Meredith would say “Its casual day!”[/quote]

That bum coach k wore short sleeves in Hawaii. Such a disgrace to Duke.

Honestly I couldn't care less what Mullin wears as long as we continue to do well. The things people actually complain about on this forum never cease to amaze me.[/quote]

I don't disagree with your points on dress code but coaches and commentators are required to wear Hawaiian shirts in Maui so you're example holds now weight.
 
[quote="SJU61982" post=306096][quote="Marillac" post=306095][quote="Valgoth" post=306093]BTW just a shout out to all the fans, former players, School officials, and FL alumni who came out. Everything was top notch and we had the biggest crowd support of first 2 games. Great time was had by all who attended.[/quote]

I was really impressed for our turnout with 10 teams there for the event. Did did you stay past game two? I'd like to know how well the other games were attended. I didn't see a single Georgia Tech fan...not one jersey, hat, or t-shirt. Even behind their bench was 150 or so St. John's fans. It was surprising to me that an ACC school 7 hours away didn't travel. And Miami can't even get fans to on campus games.[/quote]

One thing I learned about Miami, from their years in the Big East:

They have no fan base whatsoever. The football team is the first interest there, and there is no second interest. [/quote]

Disagree, Spring Football is their second interest.
 
[quote="Marillac" post=306147][quote="we are sju" post=306141][quote="Marillac" post=306135][quote="we are sju" post=306114][quote="austour" post=306060]Just win ugly baby.[/quote]

See people are looking at this team the wrong way. Before season people were comparing this team to Artest Elite 8 team. One problem is this team is missing Ron Artest. Also missing Ty Grant. That team had TWO first round draft choices and 3 guys that played in the pros.
This team more closely resembles the Marcus Hatten Junior year team with a much more talented supporting cast. People got too carried away with Heron and LJ. Both are good players as is Simon but this team will go as far as Ponds will take us. I think Ponds has potential to be better than Hatten and as previously mentioned Ponds supporting cast is way better. I still think depending on match up this team can win a game or 2 in NCAA. As far as winning ugly, they are playing close games and might have the best closer in college basketball. We are what we are.[/quote]
To me this team most resembles the 99-00 Big East champions.

6'1 Barkley 6'1 Ponds
6'4 Bootsy 6'5 Heron
6'5 Postell 6'6 Figueroa
6'7 Jessie 6'5 Simon
6'6 Glover 6'7 Clark

6'3 Gray 6'2 Dixon
6'9 Emmanuel 6'9 Keita + 6'3 Trimble


99-00 went 7 deep. We can go 8. Neither had much size down low but a bevy of big wings.[/quote]

Postell, Glover and Jessie that year played bigger than their size and were a lot tougher than anyone on this roster. One main difference but not a bad comparison.
Again Herron, LJ and Simon are good but this is still far and away Ponds team. Ponds has done a GREAT job of letting the game come to him so far. If they supporting cast is playing well he slides into background. When they struggle he wins game for us. I just hope that those on here realize he can't do that all the time though. There is going to come a game where we need him to carry team to win and he won't be able to.[/quote]

Heron plays as hard and physical as anyone I've seen here. He's also the same height as Glover in reality. I also think Simon has the potential to be head and shoulders better than Jessie was. Very similar players actually...almost identical listed height and weight, neither shoot well, both fancy themselves as point-forwards and rack up aissts and turnovers, both can rebound well. Justin has standout athleticism though and Jessie didn't.

You won't get any argument from me that those Jarvis teams played more physical (with the exception of Heron), but this team is more skilled offensively.[/quote]

The 99-2000 comparison does have some merit. But beyond the physical differences as noted above (I think the 99-2000 team is/was better) the 99-2000 team played what I believe will be a significantly tougher CONFERENCE schedule with more opportunities for big wins and won many of those games. Put simply the BE was better then.

Just to revisit, the 99-00 team beat UCONN 3x that year including the BE Tourney final. UCONN was a 5 seed in the NCAA's that year. They beat the team that won the conference regular season, Syracuse a 4 seed in the NCAA's, at home. They beat Miami in the BE Tourney and Villanova in the first round. Miami was a 6 seed in the NCAA's and Villanova I believe was an 8 or 9. And of course the biggie, they became the LAST non-conference team to beat Duke at Cameron. That Duke team was a 1 seed. So that is 7 wins again NCAA teams, 6 of them against top 6 seeded teams, 4 of them against UCONN and Duke alone (who played each other for the NC just a year earlier).

That team got a 2 seed in the NCAA's. I am not convinced this conference will afford them the same opportunities unfortunately and considering how much they have struggled against weaker teams not sure this team could capitalize on most of those opportunities like the 99-2000 team did. Again this team should make the NCAA's but beyond that not sure how good they are yet.
 
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