LIU Brooklyn

[Jack Williams]

Fwiw, Gonzaga beat a #22 team in SMU easily and dismantled st joes last night (scored more points in the first half then they did the entire game) so Gonzaga might crack the top 10 next week. So what an opportunity that could be.

But. Minnesota first.

 

[SJU1512]

Ugly wins against teams that would not win more than a game or 2 (if that) in the Big East are fools gold. This was LIU's first game. Their team is young and not very athletic. They were worn down with a more experienced, far more athletic team playing at home with a few games under their belt. Some people think that we are waiting to "turn it on" against better opposition. Turn on what? This is who we are. We are 1 Obekpa sprained ankle from being a Big East doormat this year. However, all is not lost. Jordan is not even close to being ready for the NBA. I hope he accepts that and comes back next year after working on his jumper. Is he even on one mock draft list? Obekpa obviously worked hard on his game all summer. If he was this good last year, maybe we would have been dancing. Minnesota is light years better than our first opponents. Can we compete? Sure, if we shoot better, stay out of foul trouble, guard the shooters, fight for every rebound and loose ball, and a few other things. Every year we live off of "ifs". It's getting tiresome.

St. John's plays down to its opponents even in good years. The negativity on this board is just shocking right now. Are there reasons to be down? Absolutely. Are there reasons to be excited? You bet your ass.

We are small this season, but we have two sensational 6'4 guards that do it all. We have two solid senior guards to pickup minutes. We have a dynamic center. We just need a few guys to step up and hold their own and to get better playing team defense and without a true PF.

We are 3-0. We've faced teams that have given us good looks in all five games and exhibitions thus far. Can we at least lose a game or two before we start the pity party?

Marillac, It is a small sample size & SJU does have history of playing down to opponents. That said, the margin of error for this team is thin & you can't afford to lose to teams you should beat if you want to dance. When I read the boards, I disregard the extreme ends of opinion. We are not the worst team in the world nor the best. You are entitled to be the optimist, but sane folks, who have been disappointed in SJU for so long, are entitled to theirs. When you forecast a top three recruiting class, a transfer coming, etc., I can live with that. You may have to accept rational criticisms of the team. Those critics root for the team, unlike agenda driven guys. Just my two cents.

Well said. We can all agree the most important piece is that we are 3-0, whether we played well, poorly, or a mix of the two. But within that universe it's reasonable to evaluate based on what we've seen at a given time. I'm looking at quality of play this early in the season, not the margin of victory. Would rather beat LIU by 10 but play good basketball than win by 30 because we have superior athletes and individual talent. After what I thought was a great effort Friday night, we've done neither of those things this week, winning by closer margins against inferior competition while playing pretty disjointedly with some huge individual efforts prevailing.

This can always be chalked up to the smaller sample size and early season rust. I hope that's the case. But this would be less concerning if it were not a recurring theme over the last few years (and we know what the end results were). This team of upperclassmen and experienced players has little excuse not to be firing on all cylinders from the jump. Just once I'd like us to be explaining away how we should temper our expectations based upon how good we look against bad competition as opposed to wins being wins and X mid-low major is better than we think and also happened to play really well against us.

Again early, but discouraging to turn to the Creighton game and then the Gonzaga game after ours and see the form they were in against Tournament teams, wondering why we aren't there. Far from conclusory, but theme always seems to be SJU looking to get better in the future while other teams are ready to be as good as they can be at any given juncture in the season.

 

[paultzman]

Fwiw, Gonzaga beat a #22 team in SMU easily and dismantled st joes last night (scored more points in the first half then they did the entire game) so Gonzaga might crack the top 10 next week. So what an opportunity that could be.

But. Minnesota first.

Unlike PSU last year, let's win, impress & go into Zaga (I assume) game with some confidence & give it a whirl. Another consolation appearance does not bode well for this team.

 

[Jack Williams]

Fwiw, Gonzaga beat a #22 team in SMU easily and dismantled st joes last night (scored more points in the first half then they did the entire game) so Gonzaga might crack the top 10 next week. So what an opportunity that could be.

But. Minnesota first.

Unlike PSU last year, let's win, impress & go into Zaga (I assume) game with some confidence & give it a whirl. Another consolation appearance does not bode well for this team.

Agreed. With the way we defend the 3, and the way Gonzaga shoots it, that game could potentially get ugly. But I still want to make it to that game by beating MINNY and seeing what we can do in a big time game on our floor.

 

[Class of 72]

@CESPN1: Johnnies got out rebounded 44 to 39. 21 offensive rebounds for LIU. Only 7 assists.

Johnnies also had 16 blocks and won the game.

Creighton beating Oklahoma tonight was impressive. Our win against LIU was not. Sorry, but this team has a ton of work to do. Minnesota game should tell us a lot.

That's a fair point , but STJ won that's the bottom line. Are you looking for style points or banking wins to make the Ncaa's. In March this will count as a W , nobody cares if we won by 13 or 23.

LIU is simply a game you are expected to win & it would be nice to do so impressively. It won't mean squat for NCAA consideration. Minnesota & Gonzaga (if we beat Minny) would. Frankly I just don't see this team having the ability to beat either based on what I see. I hope to be proven wrong.

Sadly, I have to agree. Like last season, the first 5 games against D2 and cupcakes have us looking disjointed and defensively exposed. However, last season was the most talented team Lavin put on the court and this year one with the shortest bench. Except for Obekpa who left NYC to improve his game this summer, every other player is the same except for Rysheed showcasing his Euro step, much like Jakarr was showcasing his jump shot last year. We know what that means for "teamwork ".
If your best remaining scholarship recruit does not get burn against cupcakes it tells you a lot about our depth and Lavin's eye for talent OR he is being taught a lesson that will bite the team on the ass come January.

 

[Class of 72]

Fwiw, Gonzaga beat a #22 team in SMU easily and dismantled st joes last night (scored more points in the first half then they did the entire game) so Gonzaga might crack the top 10 next week. So what an opportunity that could be.

But. Minnesota first.

Unlike PSU last year, let's win, impress & go into Zaga (I assume) game with some confidence & give it a whirl. Another consolation appearance does not bode well for this team.

Agreed. With the way we defend the 3, and the way Gonzaga shoots it, that game could potentially get ugly. But I still want to make it to that game by beating MINNY and seeing what we can do in a big time game on our floor.

Mark Few is one of the best strategic recruiters in the game. He targets specific positions and goes after the best players he can sign. Not our case. We may be exposed at every position if we play Zaga. Better for this team to lose to Minnesota than be embarrassed. They have at least a 50%chance of winning in the consolation game. Would love two wins like everyone but just don't see it with the way our team is constructed. This team and its coaches need a lot of late nights in the gym but they have to beat the traffic westbound on the LIE. Where is Phil Missere when we need him.

 

[Ray Morgan]

Ugly wins against teams that would not win more than a game or 2 (if that) in the Big East are fools gold. This was LIU's first game. Their team is young and not very athletic. They were worn down with a more experienced, far more athletic team playing at home with a few games under their belt. Some people think that we are waiting to "turn it on" against better opposition. Turn on what? This is who we are. We are 1 Obekpa sprained ankle from being a Big East doormat this year. However, all is not lost. Jordan is not even close to being ready for the NBA. I hope he accepts that and comes back next year after working on his jumper. Is he even on one mock draft list? Obekpa obviously worked hard on his game all summer. If he was this good last year, maybe we would have been dancing. Minnesota is light years better than our first opponents. Can we compete? Sure, if we shoot better, stay out of foul trouble, guard the shooters, fight for every rebound and loose ball, and a few other things. Every year we live off of "ifs". It's getting tiresome.

Jordan will not be on NBA mock drafts the same way that Sampson was not on any NBA mock drafts, and look where he is now. People can say that Philly is taking a dive on purpose and that is why they kept JaKarr.....but at the end of the day, he is in the league, and making money.

You don't think that Jordan is thinking ,"hey, if Sampson can make it...so can I."

That's the problem. Sampson makes it as a longshot, therefore so can I, thinks Jordan. Everyone, including the players, forget how good you have to be to play in the NBA. To stick around, even harder. Look at Harkless, who is losing minutes this year on a team with less talent than most. And he brings a lot to the table. We are all pulling for Sampson, but "DNP" on perhaps the worst NBA team ever is where he is in the box score too often for a guy with a future. Jordan has half of a NBA game. The world looks a lot different when driving to the hoop against LIU's front line. There is no Tim Duncan or Dwight Howard waiting for you at the basket. That's if you can shake another 6'4 guard who is equal to or better than you athletically. Jordan needs to establish that he has an outside-inside game, that he makes good decisions with the ball and kills it on the defensive end. Not when in the mood, but every single game. I hope he gives it one more year. Obekpa, too. Then make their intentions to stay public. That should help sway a few recruits on the fence.

 

[newsman13]

Offensively, we had open shots all night long. Our guys got too comfortable beating the lesser team off the dribble and that shows with only 7 assists in the box score. We missed a bunch of wide open looks as well. This game was never seriously in question even when we were down.

Defensively, they still get beat too often by guard penetration. You'd think a guard-oriented team would be better.

Harrison's nose for the ball, hustle, and overall makeup are just awesome. Jordan could be scary good by February. He still has to figure out a bunch of stuff (like when to drive and when to pull it back), but there is time. Again, I love him in the post and like Dom there too. We need a couple guys to really step up to the Obekpa-Harrison-Jordan trio.

Dom played very well tonight. Those blocked shots from the weak side will be huge with our lack of height. 18 points, 8 boards, 6 blocks and only 2 turnovers. I'll take half of that consistently from him.

I am surprised Amar is not getting any time. You'd think he will be needed in the Minnestota and Gonzaga/Georgia games. At the end of the day, we are 3-0 heading into a tough week. You can't ask for anymore.

By the end of the following week we will be 3-2. Don't worry about Amar. He will do just fine......in Italy next year.

You know what St. John's basketball really needs? More people like you to remind us daily that we aren't Kentucky, Duke, or Arizona. Thank you for another wonderful contribution. What do you have on your schedule tomorrow...going to go heckle some CYO games and let all the kids know that only one out of a million kids will make it to the NBA and they should give up now? Maybe swing by the humane society to watch them put down some dogs?

Well, we aren't Kentucky, Duke or Arizona...but when Lavin came here, many of us thought we could be. Not everyone can mask their disappointment. This isn't CYO ball, but it may as well be if we fail next week...and by that I mean not winning against two teams we should have been better than.

 

[postell25]

@CESPN1: Johnnies got out rebounded 44 to 39. 21 offensive rebounds for LIU. Only 7 assists.

Johnnies also had 16 blocks and won the game.

Creighton beating Oklahoma tonight was impressive. Our win against LIU was not. Sorry, but this team has a ton of work to do. Minnesota game should tell us a lot.

Going to learn more Wednesday than I thought we would. Hope it's positive. Eerie similarity to Thanksgiving weekend last year: mediocre tournament (bit better this year) with a Big 10 team in the semis and a team from Georgia likely waiting in the consolation. Not finishing that PSU game was the first big red flag that we weren't there. We need to beat Minny and find out what we look like against a Top 15 team.

Mediocre tournament? Minnesota will see the Top 25 at some point this year and Gonzaga is a serious Final 4 candidate. This tournament is leaps and bounds better than last year. Even if we beat Penn State, the prize at the end of that one was a mediocre Ole Miss.

 

[usguard]

I feel Dom will be considered fot the next level

 

[southernjohnny2]

Offensively, we had open shots all night long. Our guys got too comfortable beating the lesser team off the dribble and that shows with only 7 assists in the box score. We missed a bunch of wide open looks as well. This game was never seriously in question even when we were down.

Defensively, they still get beat too often by guard penetration. You'd think a guard-oriented team would be better.

Harrison's nose for the ball, hustle, and overall makeup are just awesome. Jordan could be scary good by February. He still has to figure out a bunch of stuff (like when to drive and when to pull it back), but there is time. Again, I love him in the post and like Dom there too. We need a couple guys to really step up to the Obekpa-Harrison-Jordan trio.

Dom played very well tonight. Those blocked shots from the weak side will be huge with our lack of height. 18 points, 8 boards, 6 blocks and only 2 turnovers. I'll take half of that consistently from him.

I am surprised Amar is not getting any time. You'd think he will be needed in the Minnestota and Gonzaga/Georgia games. At the end of the day, we are 3-0 heading into a tough week. You can't ask for anymore.

By the end of the following week we will be 3-2. Don't worry about Amar. He will do just fine......in Italy next year.

You know what St. John's basketball really needs? More people like you to remind us daily that we aren't Kentucky, Duke, or Arizona. Thank you for another wonderful contribution. What do you have on your schedule tomorrow...going to go heckle some CYO games and let all the kids know that only one out of a million kids will make it to the NBA and they should give up now? Maybe swing by the humane society to watch them put down some dogs?

Well, we aren't Kentucky, Duke or Arizona...but when Lavin came here, many of us thought we could be. Not everyone can mask their disappointment. This isn't CYO ball, but it may as well be if we fail next week...and by that I mean not winning against two teams we should have been better than.

Why would anyone think we would be Duke, Kentucky, Arizona, or UNC, Indiana, Kansas?? Those schools have all broken rules in the past and never paid a price like we paid for good old honest Abe..We do not have the boosters those schools have, nor have we won a national championship. All those schools have a football program...All those schools have big money to sway kids...So we have a coach we play in MSG, and we play in a city that doesn't have a passion or presence in the NCAA football world. Yes you can make a solid program at STJ, and every once in awhile make a run into March, but those schools are always for the most part Monsters of March..

 

[redfazed]

Offensively, we had open shots all night long. Our guys got too comfortable beating the lesser team off the dribble and that shows with only 7 assists in the box score. We missed a bunch of wide open looks as well. This game was never seriously in question even when we were down.

Defensively, they still get beat too often by guard penetration. You'd think a guard-oriented team would be better.

Harrison's nose for the ball, hustle, and overall makeup are just awesome. Jordan could be scary good by February. He still has to figure out a bunch of stuff (like when to drive and when to pull it back), but there is time. Again, I love him in the post and like Dom there too. We need a couple guys to really step up to the Obekpa-Harrison-Jordan trio.

Dom played very well tonight. Those blocked shots from the weak side will be huge with our lack of height. 18 points, 8 boards, 6 blocks and only 2 turnovers. I'll take half of that consistently from him.

I am surprised Amar is not getting any time. You'd think he will be needed in the Minnestota and Gonzaga/Georgia games. At the end of the day, we are 3-0 heading into a tough week. You can't ask for anymore.

By the end of the following week we will be 3-2. Don't worry about Amar. He will do just fine......in Italy next year.

You know what St. John's basketball really needs? More people like you to remind us daily that we aren't Kentucky, Duke, or Arizona. Thank you for another wonderful contribution. What do you have on your schedule tomorrow...going to go heckle some CYO games and let all the kids know that only one out of a million kids will make it to the NBA and they should give up now? Maybe swing by the humane society to watch them put down some dogs?

Well, we aren't Kentucky, Duke or Arizona...but when Lavin came here, many of us thought we could be. Not everyone can mask their disappointment. This isn't CYO ball, but it may as well be if we fail next week...and by that I mean not winning against two teams we should have been better than.

Why would anyone think we would be Duke, Kentucky, Arizona, or UNC, Indiana, Kansas?? Those schools have all broken rules in the past and never paid a price like we paid for good old honest Abe..We do not have the boosters those schools have, nor have we won a national championship. All those schools have a football program...All those schools have big money to sway kids...So we have a coach we play in MSG, and we play in a city that doesn't have a passion or presence in the NCAA football world. Yes you can make a solid program at STJ, and every once in awhile make a run into March, but those schools are always for the most part Monsters of March..

It's not realistic to think we could be Kentucky, Arizona, or UNC, Indiana, Kansas. But there's no reason why this program, being based in the media capital of the planet, can't rise up to the level of Villanova or Georgetown. I would be thrilled with that.

 

[southernjohnny2]

Offensively, we had open shots all night long. Our guys got too comfortable beating the lesser team off the dribble and that shows with only 7 assists in the box score. We missed a bunch of wide open looks as well. This game was never seriously in question even when we were down.

Defensively, they still get beat too often by guard penetration. You'd think a guard-oriented team would be better.

Harrison's nose for the ball, hustle, and overall makeup are just awesome. Jordan could be scary good by February. He still has to figure out a bunch of stuff (like when to drive and when to pull it back), but there is time. Again, I love him in the post and like Dom there too. We need a couple guys to really step up to the Obekpa-Harrison-Jordan trio.

Dom played very well tonight. Those blocked shots from the weak side will be huge with our lack of height. 18 points, 8 boards, 6 blocks and only 2 turnovers. I'll take half of that consistently from him.

I am surprised Amar is not getting any time. You'd think he will be needed in the Minnestota and Gonzaga/Georgia games. At the end of the day, we are 3-0 heading into a tough week. You can't ask for anymore.

By the end of the following week we will be 3-2. Don't worry about Amar. He will do just fine......in Italy next year.

You know what St. John's basketball really needs? More people like you to remind us daily that we aren't Kentucky, Duke, or Arizona. Thank you for another wonderful contribution. What do you have on your schedule tomorrow...going to go heckle some CYO games and let all the kids know that only one out of a million kids will make it to the NBA and they should give up now? Maybe swing by the humane society to watch them put down some dogs?

Well, we aren't Kentucky, Duke or Arizona...but when Lavin came here, many of us thought we could be. Not everyone can mask their disappointment. This isn't CYO ball, but it may as well be if we fail next week...and by that I mean not winning against two teams we should have been better than.

Why would anyone think we would be Duke, Kentucky, Arizona, or UNC, Indiana, Kansas?? Those schools have all broken rules in the past and never paid a price like we paid for good old honest Abe..We do not have the boosters those schools have, nor have we won a national championship. All those schools have a football program...All those schools have big money to sway kids...So we have a coach we play in MSG, and we play in a city that doesn't have a passion or presence in the NCAA football world. Yes you can make a solid program at STJ, and every once in awhile make a run into March, but those schools are always for the most part Monsters of March..

It's not realistic to think we could be Kentucky, Arizona, or UNC, Indiana, Kansas. But there's no reason why this program, being based in the media capital of the planet, can't rise up to the level of Villanova or Georgetown. I would be thrilled with that.

That is exactly right!! Give Lavin an extension, force him to hire someone that can x and 0 and give that person control over strategy, and Lavin focuses on getting kids ranked 25-100

 

[Ray Morgan]

Forget Kentucky, Duke and Kansas. At this point, I will settle for being what SJU used to be under Looie. It wasn't great, but it was usually good and occasionally very good.

 

[Jack Williams]

Offensively, we had open shots all night long. Our guys got too comfortable beating the lesser team off the dribble and that shows with only 7 assists in the box score. We missed a bunch of wide open looks as well. This game was never seriously in question even when we were down.

Defensively, they still get beat too often by guard penetration. You'd think a guard-oriented team would be better.

Harrison's nose for the ball, hustle, and overall makeup are just awesome. Jordan could be scary good by February. He still has to figure out a bunch of stuff (like when to drive and when to pull it back), but there is time. Again, I love him in the post and like Dom there too. We need a couple guys to really step up to the Obekpa-Harrison-Jordan trio.

Dom played very well tonight. Those blocked shots from the weak side will be huge with our lack of height. 18 points, 8 boards, 6 blocks and only 2 turnovers. I'll take half of that consistently from him.

I am surprised Amar is not getting any time. You'd think he will be needed in the Minnestota and Gonzaga/Georgia games. At the end of the day, we are 3-0 heading into a tough week. You can't ask for anymore.

By the end of the following week we will be 3-2. Don't worry about Amar. He will do just fine......in Italy next year.

You know what St. John's basketball really needs? More people like you to remind us daily that we aren't Kentucky, Duke, or Arizona. Thank you for another wonderful contribution. What do you have on your schedule tomorrow...going to go heckle some CYO games and let all the kids know that only one out of a million kids will make it to the NBA and they should give up now? Maybe swing by the humane society to watch them put down some dogs?

Well, we aren't Kentucky, Duke or Arizona...but when Lavin came here, many of us thought we could be. Not everyone can mask their disappointment. This isn't CYO ball, but it may as well be if we fail next week...and by that I mean not winning against two teams we should have been better than.

Why would anyone think we would be Duke, Kentucky, Arizona, or UNC, Indiana, Kansas?? Those schools have all broken rules in the past and never paid a price like we paid for good old honest Abe..We do not have the boosters those schools have, nor have we won a national championship. All those schools have a football program...All those schools have big money to sway kids...So we have a coach we play in MSG, and we play in a city that doesn't have a passion or presence in the NCAA football world. Yes you can make a solid program at STJ, and every once in awhile make a run into March, but those schools are always for the most part Monsters of March..

It's not realistic to think we could be Kentucky, Arizona, or UNC, Indiana, Kansas. But there's no reason why this program, being based in the media capital of the planet, can't rise up to the level of Villanova or Georgetown. I would be thrilled with that.

That is exactly right!! Give Lavin an extension, force him to hire someone that can x and 0 and give that person control over strategy, and Lavin focuses on getting kids ranked 25-100

You lost me at "give Lavin an extension". Wasn't Whitesell supposed to be the guy you are describing? Cause we don't look much better since he's been here, and Lavins recruiting has gone downhill because the bridge he's trying to sell lost it's credibility after 2 straight NITs.

 

[Avon Barksdale]

Forget Kentucky, Duke and Kansas. At this point, I will settle for being what SJU used to be under Looie. It wasn't great, but it was usually good and occasionally very good.

i agree with this and i have said - make the NCAAs almost every year and once in a while have a deep run. i will sign up for this in a second. especially based on the lst 13 seasons of absolutely futility.

 

[southernjohnny2]

We don't have nearly the donors that even Gonzaga has...The game has changed programs have found the loopholes in the rules, while we were giving Abe 300 a month...Other programs came up with like I don't know boosters lending family members money, and when the kid is done, the loan is forgiven...We don't have the money behind our program or the boosters to compete with the big boys, and Avon you know that better than I do.

 

[Class of 72]

Forget Kentucky, Duke and Kansas. At this point, I will settle for being what SJU used to be under Looie. It wasn't great, but it was usually good and occasionally very good.

i agree with this and i have said - make the NCAAs almost every year and once in a while have a deep run. i will sign up for this in a second. especially based on the lst 13 seasons of absolutely futility.

Then you need to move to Spokane. BTW, it is also about getting the right players. Players that play smart and are coachable. I will sign up for a great tactician and two great recuiting assistants. There is one in our own backyard.

 

[Avon Barksdale]

i am not moving to Spokane the only place id rather not live is Staten Island lol, but there is no reason that St Johns cant be at the top of this conference every year. The recruiting is HUGE. Keep the local kids home. We dont need all of them, but look at past good SJU teams, they are always loaded with NY kids.

 

[rawdognyc]

i am not moving to Spokane the only place id rather not live is Staten Island lol, but there is no reason that St Johns cant be at the top of this conference every year. The recruiting is HUGE. Keep the local kids home. We dont need all of them, but look at past good SJU teams, they are always loaded with NY kids.

Loool. .Born n raised on Staten Island. Lived in Spokompton for a little more than a year. They love their zags over there. Again though, they are the only show in town. You get people going to the games from eastern Washington and northern Idaho to watch cuz there is nothing else to do. I'll tell you though, I went to a couple games and it's a fun environment.