Lavin's Body Of Work At SJU

[Ray Morgan]

Almost 5 seasons under his belt, although one he spent recruiting. Four full recruiting years. Since many think he's on the hot seat, it's time to evaluate his body of work. Especially after an ugly loss.

POSITIVES:
1. Winning % an improvement over his predecessor. OK, that's not saying much.
2. Some big time recruits, including a lot of top 100 guys that wouldn't give us a second look under Roberts.
3. One NCAA appearance, albeit with Norm's players.
4. Two of his recruits in the NBA. Another recruit becomes SJU's 3rd all-time leading scorer.
5. Generates a lot of publicity for the program.

NEGATIVES:
1. Zero NCAA wins.
2. Zero NCAA invites with his recruits, with little hope for next season.
3. Zero quality PG recruits, at least as the position should be played.
4. Zero 3 point shooters recruited.
5. Zero quality rebounders recruited.
6. One post-season win.
7. Plenty of transfers, head cases, suspensions, qualification issues, near mutinies, zero effort games.
8. Not a single "find" in any recruiting class, resulting in no depth.
9. Undisciplined ball for the most part, with way too much emphasis on one on one play.
10. Very few signature wins with his own players, with no outstanding wins. I think even Norm had more.

I don't know what this administration's going to do. Maybe they will look at his body of work differently. I have seen the product on the floor. Despite significant individual pieces, a team has not been put together. Teams have a PG that can shoot a bit, penetrate and dish. Teams have several 3 point threats. Teams have big men that know what their job is, and execute it. Who knows what's in the minds of the decision makers at SJU.

 

[Marillac]

Who would want to coach for the angriest fan base in the country?

 

[Ray Morgan]

Who would want to coach for the angriest fan base in the country?

If you are not angry about tonight or a lot of similar nights the last, oh, I don't know, 11 years, then you shouldn't call yourself a fan.

 

[salty dog]

Almost 5 seasons under his belt, although one he spent recruiting. Four full recruiting years. Since many think he's on the hot seat, it's time to evaluate his body of work. Especially after an ugly loss.

POSITIVES:
1. Winning % an improvement over his predecessor. OK, that's not saying much.
2. Some big time recruits, including a lot of top 100 guys that wouldn't give us a second look under Roberts.
3. One NCAA appearance, albeit with Norm's players.
4. Two of his recruits in the NBA. Another recruit becomes SJU's 3rd all-time leading scorer.
5. Generates a lot of publicity for the program.

NEGATIVES:
1. Zero NCAA wins.
2. Zero NCAA invites with his recruits, with little hope for next season.
3. Zero quality PG recruits, at least as the position should be played.
4. Zero 3 point shooters recruited.
5. Zero quality rebounders recruited.
6. One post-season win.
7. Plenty of transfers, head cases, suspensions, qualification issues, near mutinies, zero effort games.
8. Not a single "find" in any recruiting class, resulting in no depth.
9. Undisciplined ball for the most part, with way too much emphasis on one on one play.
10. Very few signature wins with his own players, with no outstanding wins. I think even Norm had more.

I don't know what this administration's going to do. Maybe they will look at his body of work differently. I have seen the product on the floor. Despite significant individual pieces, a team has not been put together. Teams have a PG that can shoot a bit, penetrate and dish. Teams have several 3 point threats. Teams have big men that know what their job is, and execute it. Who knows what's in the minds of the decision makers at SJU.

Stop talking about administration. Tell me who is in charge.

 

[Redmen88]

In today's college basketball, excluding the Kentucky's, Duke, Kansas type teams, the teams are very close in talent level. Because of that you need a very good coach that react to the ebbs and flows of the games and make changes. You need to change your defenses, have great ball movement and more than anything you need a heady point guard to be your coach on the floor, not a head case PG. The coach has to build and mold his team and run a system but be flexible enough to change when needed. SL simply cannot do this. Looking forward to a new era.

 

[Marillac]

Who would want to coach for the angriest fan base in the country?

If you are not angry about tonight or a lot of similar nights the last, oh, I don't know, 11 years, then you shouldn't call yourself a fan.

If you want an easy team to root for, then follow Kentucky. Rooting for St. John's is never going to be easy again regardless of what happens to Lavin. The same posters were angry about Norm, about Jarvis, about Fraschilla, about Mahoney...it never ends. How long until the next coach starts getting his "brain bashed in" as Keady put it?

We blame the refs nearly every game, we criticize the f*cking announcers routinely...what coaches wear on the sidelines. We even knock walkons here.

This is a terrible job. Nobody shows up to games, but nobody misses an opportunity to criticize on the message boards.

 

[T6K0E6]

We hired Norm for being a good recruiter, that didn't work out. We then hired Lavin for being a big name and good recruiter - its not faring well.

How about we hire a good coach in our next time around. WINNING is what bring good players to the program.

Oh and Fire Monasch too, he needs to share the blame.

 

[otis]

Lavin is defined by his Big East record of 39 wins and 42 losses.

 

[redfan259999888]

Who would want to coach for the angriest fan base in the country?

If you are not angry about tonight or a lot of similar nights the last, oh, I don't know, 11 years, then you shouldn't call yourself a fan.

If you want an easy team to root for, then follow Kentucky. Rooting for St. John's is never going to be easy again regardless of what happens to Lavin. The same posters were angry about Norm, about Jarvis, about Fraschilla, about Mahoney...it never ends. How long until the next coach starts getting his "brain bashed in" as Keady put it?

We blame the refs nearly every game, we criticize the f*cking announcers routinely...what coaches wear on the sidelines. We even knock walkons here.

This is a terrible job. Nobody shows up to games, but nobody misses an opportunity to criticize on the message boards.

Want people to show up, then gotta get a winning product, then people will spend their money on them. You can say what you want about them not being real fans then, but that's just how it is.

 

[Marillac]

Lavin is defined by his Big East record of 39 wins and 42 losses.

Why did you support Norm Roberts then? Why wasn't he defined by his Big East record of 32-70 or his Queens College conference record of 15-65?

 

[Ray Morgan]

I'm not down on a single player on this team. Not this year. They were sent into war without sufficient ammo and without a strategy. I love their effort. You could tell they really want this (the NCAA invite). The refs, the announcers, Lavin's attire, and the cheerleaders mean nothing to me. As for anger, I hope whomever makes decisions regarding this program is angry, at least a little bit. Or disappointed. I certainly don't want complacency.
I don't read other college basketball boards. They have as much impact on the success of a program or recruiting as the daily number, if there is still such a thing. There isn't a coach with half his faculties that would use the message board as a means to sway their decision.

College basketball in NY is a tough sell. Too many other activities, too many other sports. This isn't Omaha or Indianapolis. There aren't 20,000 students on campus at night to attend games. I parked myself on the hard ass benches at Alumni Hall, even if only those crappy red ones were left, back in the day. Ate a lot of tin foiled wrapped hot dogs at half time, downed them with a flat coke, and had a nice salty pretzel as dessert. Then watched what was left of the halftime floor show of the SJU dancers. Maybe I would not have stuck it out all these years if the program was not a winning one from the time I began attending games. Winning is what matters, and a program you can be proud of.

 

[1and1sju]

Who would want to coach for the angriest fan base in the country?

If you are not angry about tonight or a lot of similar nights the last, oh, I don't know, 11 years, then you shouldn't call yourself a fan.

If you want an easy team to root for, then follow Kentucky. Rooting for St. John's is never going to be easy again regardless of what happens to Lavin. The same posters were angry about Norm, about Jarvis, about Fraschilla, about Mahoney...it never ends. How long until the next coach starts getting his "brain bashed in" as Keady put it?

We blame the refs nearly every game, we criticize the f*cking announcers routinely...what coaches wear on the sidelines. We even knock walkons here.

This is a terrible job. Nobody shows up to games, but nobody misses an opportunity to criticize on the message boards.

Marillac,
the same could be said to you...
If you want a fan base that is always happy and celebrating? Then root for Kentucky
You want a fan-base that doesn't criticize the coach or administration? root for Duke or the Chinese national team


The fans here complain because the last few coaches haven't met their expectations. Now, that could be because expectations are too high, but that would be accepting that sju is only meant or capable of making the tournament once a decade. I'm not ready to concede that.
So, I'm going to demand more from the AD! coaches, and players.

 

[mjmaherjr]

I'm not down on a single player on this team. Not this year. They were sent into war without sufficient ammo and without a strategy. I love their effort. You could tell they really want this (the NCAA invite). The refs, the announcers, Lavin's attire, and the cheerleaders mean nothing to me. As for anger, I hope whomever makes decisions regarding this program is angry, at least a little bit. Or disappointed. I certainly don't want complacency.
I don't read other college basketball boards. They have as much impact on the success of a program or recruiting as the daily number, if there is still such a thing. There isn't a coach with half his faculties that would use the message board as a means to sway their decision.

College basketball in NY is a tough sell. Too many other activities, too many other sports. This isn't Omaha or Indianapolis. There aren't 20,000 students on campus at night to attend games. I parked myself on the hard ass benches at Alumni Hall, even if only those crappy red ones were left, back in the day. Ate a lot of tin foiled wrapped hot dogs at half time, downed them with a flat coke, and had a nice salty pretzel as dessert. Then watched what was left of the halftime floor show of the SJU dancers. Maybe I would not have stuck it out all these years if the program was not a winning one from the time I began attending games. Winning is what matters, and a program you can be proud of.

post of the week

 

[mjmaherjr]

Who would want to coach for the angriest fan base in the country?

If you are not angry about tonight or a lot of similar nights the last, oh, I don't know, 11 years, then you shouldn't call yourself a fan.

If you want an easy team to root for, then follow Kentucky. Rooting for St. John's is never going to be easy again regardless of what happens to Lavin. The same posters were angry about Norm, about Jarvis, about Fraschilla, about Mahoney...it never ends. How long until the next coach starts getting his "brain bashed in" as Keady put it?

We blame the refs nearly every game, we criticize the f*cking announcers routinely...what coaches wear on the sidelines. We even knock walkons here.

This is a terrible job. Nobody shows up to games, but nobody misses an opportunity to criticize on the message boards.

what should concern the school is there are posters here who don't complain on the board here who complained a long time with Norm and Jarvis who have not only stopped complaining but more importantly stopped going to games.

And for every one of them there are a lot more that we don't know about

When long time supporters are fed up then that's a problem because these friends of ours aren't fair weather fans

 

[Jack Williams]

Fans deserve better than what they get. I want to throw up after watching games like these and I realize most of you in fact probably all of you have been suffering like this for 10+ years.

I honestly don't know if I could last that long without seeing results. Just clean up the program and get a coach who runs an actual offense and keeps his guys in check and takes his job seriously.

 

[paultzman]

E

Fans deserve better than what they get. I want to throw up after watching games like these and I realize most of you in fact probably all of you have been suffering like this for 10+ years.

I honestly don't know if I could last that long without seeing results. Just clean up the program and get a coach who runs an actual offense and keeps his guys in check and takes his job seriously.

Not going to blast Lavin. Plain and simple we need a culture change. This regime will not get the program to a consistent, high quality level.

 

[mjmaherjr]

Fans deserve better than what they get. I want to throw up after watching games like these and I realize most of you in fact probably all of you have been suffering like this for 10+ years.

I honestly don't know if I could last that long without seeing results. Just clean up the program and get a coach who runs an actual offense and keeps his guys in check and takes his job seriously.

Good thing you are young because If you were a fan the last 10+ years you'd probably grow up with self esteem issues.

It's days like today a lot of us turn to alcohol

 

[JohnnyFan]

The bottom line is, after five years, Lavin should have this program in a much better place. Not only have the results been poor, the program's outlook is not promising.

Consider how the future looks for teams like Seton Hall, Georgetown, Marquette, Butler, Villanova, Xavier and Providence. They not only have a chance to dance, they also have balanced rosters and/or big recruiting classes signed (i.e. Marquette). Unfortunately, as of now, we are left behind with Creighton and DePaul, both of whom have beat us this year.

Laslty, considering the year Oliver Purnell is having with DePaul, is Lavin the worst coach in the Big East? You could certainly make that case.

Let's move on. We can do better.

 

[chronicbucks]

Fans deserve better than what they get. I want to throw up after watching games like these and I realize most of you in fact probably all of you have been suffering like this for 10+ years.

I honestly don't know if I could last that long without seeing results. Just clean up the program and get a coach who runs an actual offense and keeps his guys in check and takes his job seriously.

Welcome to the darkside brother, became a diehard during the 98-99 season. Graduated in 2009, I'm 28 years old, I am the bad luck guy.

 

[Marillac]

Who would want to coach for the angriest fan base in the country?

If you are not angry about tonight or a lot of similar nights the last, oh, I don't know, 11 years, then you shouldn't call yourself a fan.

If you want an easy team to root for, then follow Kentucky. Rooting for St. John's is never going to be easy again regardless of what happens to Lavin. The same posters were angry about Norm, about Jarvis, about Fraschilla, about Mahoney...it never ends. How long until the next coach starts getting his "brain bashed in" as Keady put it?

We blame the refs nearly every game, we criticize the f*cking announcers routinely...what coaches wear on the sidelines. We even knock walkons here.

This is a terrible job. Nobody shows up to games, but nobody misses an opportunity to criticize on the message boards.

Marillac,
the same could be said to you...
If you want a fan base that is always happy and celebrating? Then root for Kentucky
You want a fan-base that doesn't criticize the coach or administration? root for Duke or the Chinese national team


The fans here complain because the last few coaches haven't met their expectations. Now, that could be because expectations are too high, but that would be accepting that sju is only meant or capable of making the tournament once a decade. I'm not ready to concede that.
So, I'm going to demand more from the AD! coaches, and players.

There is a self-fulfilling cycle going on. We are a nasty, entitled fan base. Look at the Briscoe recruitment page. The DAY he was set to announce with rumors he was leaning towards us, there was a barrage of fire Lavin posts and an incredible increase of negativity from guys that wanted Lavin gone more than they wanted him to sign a McDonald's All-American recruit.

It's naive to think recruits don't read these sites. They would be foolish not to. I know it's the first I would have done if they were around when I was making my choice where to play college ball.

The asst. coach at Iowa State that was a team manager under Norm said it was so refreshing to be a part of a program with a truly supportive fan base unlike the mess he came from here where people are just nasty.