Lavin The Genius
- Thread starter Ray Morgan
- Start date
buckethead
Well-known member
I understand Lavins suspension of DLo but to say he wouldn't have made a change in the games is ridiculous. If anyone on this team can make points happen its DLo. I don't think it would have mattered against what happened in the second half against ND but he would have been driving on the zone and at least opening things up - which would have gotten the anti-DLo crowd riled up when it should have been the "Hey Lavin why can't we flash some screens and blocks for our 3 point threats" crowd. Against Providence - we lose by 3 and you think not having the teams leading scorer missing had no effect???? I can understand supporting Lavin's decision but using "he wasn't missed in a 3 point loss" to support the descision doesn't really work. Providence would have been a win IMHO and would have driven home the point about how his leadership and ability were missed and he could have been there if he was making good choices.
What I am not going to do is discuss the suspensions as if they are somehow related. Harrison asked for and got what he deserved and no amount of points lost or games lost is going to make me feel differently. You guys can defend Harrison until the cows come home but he was wrong, the behavior was habitual and the punishment fit the crime(s). As for Pointer, taken out of context, I think the one game is fair and sufficient. If Pointer has some kind of history, fighting in practice, etc. maybe I feel differently. Personally, I would not have a problem with Lavin being suspended for a game because I thought Pointer clearly should not have been in the game. After the first incident I thought he should have been on the bench for the duration. If both incidents involved the same ND player I would say the same thing for Brey.
we are sju
Active member
I like Dom and don't want him suspended anymore than I want Harrison suspended. With that being said if you haven't noticed that Pointer is chippy and almost gets into something every game, than you are not watching or you are just seeing what you want to see. If Lavin felt he had to suspend Harrison that is his right. My problem is with posters such as yourself condemning Harrison w/o any real facts yet defending the player you like better for doing something worse than anything we have sen Harrison do.
Class of 72
Active member
You said it all paesaa' !!!!
There is not a single point I would disagree with in the above.
Class of 72
Active member
Let's
It the Pointer/ND game to rest. For those that dv'rd the game, please go to the first flagrant foul on Pointer. You can see the trash talk and Dom merely tapped the ND player on the head. Foolish, yes...flagrant NO, unless you are a former ND coach commenting on it on national TV.
The second flagrant was obvious to a blind man and Pointer lost it but rewind to the ND player shoving Pointer with his right arm and we see it took two to Tango. That is why the ND player was also suspended, lest we forget while throwing Dom off the team and suspending Lavin for a game!
The season is not over yet and everyone is bashing everyone!
Maybe we will beat Marquette.
72, Pointer was the instigator and agitator all game. He is a little chippy by nature - not a bad thing - but it is something that you have to keep in check.
The replay shows the arms-length shove by the ND palyer, but nothing before that, so it is hard to say what instigsted the fight. There could have been more that preceded it. And, the video on the previous foul shot showed Pointer trash talking and elbowing the ND player on the line. In all, his overall conduct throughout the game means he does not get the benefit of the doubt as to what happened before the video replay picks it up. I am betting that there was some jousting or verbal confrontaiton that precded the shove. We don't know, but Pointer's agitiation and frustration was evident throughout the game.
Also, the referees saw his slap to the head as a flagrant 1, as the rules require. Not just Digger. By trying to minimize that prior incident, you are discrediting your argument.
The replay shows the arms-length shove by the ND palyer, but nothing before that, so it is hard to say what instigsted the fight. There could have been more that preceded it. And, the video on the previous foul shot showed Pointer trash talking and elbowing the ND player on the line. In all, his overall conduct throughout the game means he does not get the benefit of the doubt as to what happened before the video replay picks it up. I am betting that there was some jousting or verbal confrontaiton that precded the shove. We don't know, but Pointer's agitiation and frustration was evident throughout the game.
Also, the referees saw his slap to the head as a flagrant 1, as the rules require. Not just Digger. By trying to minimize that prior incident, you are discrediting your argument.
NYCShowtime
Member
There appear to be real facts regarding DLo that in my opinion are worse than Pointer's scuffle on the court...
Getting in a scuffle on the court is the result of poor judgement and having issues with anger management. It is the result of being too passionate and it is without a doubt a stupid decision. That being said, DLo's offenses appear to be worse because they are more detrimental to the team and illustrate selfishness that cannot be tolerated.
The alleged conduct that lead to the suspension, constantly being late for team meetings, being kicked out of practice on more than one occasion, and disrespecting the assistant coaches on live TV, are bigger issues than a scuffle on the court. They are character flaws and are the result of putting yourself above the team.
I don't "like" one player better than the other, but it is clear to me that if the alleged conduct of DLo was accurately described, he got what he deserved.
IMO we played a game against Providence we would not have played had Harrison been there; we shared the ball, we offensive rebounded, we had some ryhtym, we played like a team. Certainly you can disagree and the losing your top scorer argument is usually a valid one so we have to agree to disagree. Of course your whole premise and the crux of the argument is summed up in your last caveat "if he was making good choices." To me Harrison never was anything resembling a leader and there is no reason to think he would have done a 180 and made good choices against Providence. As for my opinion being ridiculous I would ask this; did you ever see SJU play stylewise the way they did against Providence with Harrison on the court? As I have said before, I think you guys seriously overestimate him as a player.
we are sju
Active member
Again the "facts" about Harrison are being fed to us by other posters. We all know how that goes. Some people have good information while others......
Look, behind the scenes Harrison may very well act like Adibisi from OZ and treats players and coaches like his prison bitches. Or it could be as simple as a personality clash between him and Lavin. Or a little bit of both. My point is Harrison's on court behavior was being disected way before this by a lot of people and as a casual fan it was waaaay overblown. People stating the decision was just or blasting Harrison are doing it based on heresay and there own prejudice. I am not disputing Lavin's right to suspend anyone, just the rush to judgement on these boards w/o any information.
Just to put it out there i just read the below and got me thinking. Dont you think that people are coming down hard on Lavin who has been here a total of 3 seasons 1 of which he had health problems, and not to mention start from scratch on his second year, no returning players all to a school that has been a Big East bottom feeder for the past 10 years.
Boeheim is known as one of the best coaches in basketball and in 37 YEARS he has won 1ONE national championship and 3THREE final fours. I feel like everyone's standards are a tad bit high for our program, if we get to the final four in 10 years and win a national championship in 15 years, that's a feat. Our fans and many people on this board need to put things in perspective.
"Boeheim has been the school’s basketball coach since the 1976-77 season. He has won one national championship, reached three Final Fours, and he is second on the Division I career wins list with 913."
Boeheim is known as one of the best coaches in basketball and in 37 YEARS he has won 1ONE national championship and 3THREE final fours. I feel like everyone's standards are a tad bit high for our program, if we get to the final four in 10 years and win a national championship in 15 years, that's a feat. Our fans and many people on this board need to put things in perspective.
"Boeheim has been the school’s basketball coach since the 1976-77 season. He has won one national championship, reached three Final Fours, and he is second on the Division I career wins list with 913."
before people come up with reasons to thwart this, lets not forget how dirty Calipari is, and how much dirt we all know exists up in Syracuse. After the basketball scandal back in the early 2000's St. John's wants a clean program and a clean image (in basketball at least ie. Chang) Norm was brough in to clean up the image and he did that, Lavin is the perfect person to bring us back to national relevance but still with a clean program. It will take sometime to play fair when most others cheat.
beast of the east
Active member
Maybe if Pointer slapped a coach and punched his teammates on multiple occasions, it would warrant a harsher action. Basketball is a physical game, and tempers boil over. Some of the finest men to play the game have gotten into brawls over cheap shots, trash talking, and being on the short end of a route.
you have to build a game plan around the type of players you have. We are very athletic but a poor shooting team. Yet it appears we run the same plays as if we are a good shooting team. We must play to our stremgths until we get shooters. Lav is a great recruiter and represents us very well. He needs a great Xs and Os guy to build a better and smarter game plan.
I dont think ke has been chippy at all...He plays tough and has been the recipient of some chippy play all year and he has responded...the punch was a poor overreaction..but up until this game he has been a tough, not gonna back down player - just the type we need
Ray Morgan
Well-known member
Most coaches do it the other way around; they have a system they are comfortable with, and recruit players that fit into that system. And that system was often taught to them by their mentor. The plan here was to have an athletic bunch that would outrun the defense. The problem is they can't run because they can't rebound and don't create turnovers. That indicates a lack of both fundamentals and basketball instincts. Their inability to attack the zone is due to the lack of an inside presence that can score, and the lack of a penetrating PG. In other words, no players that can make things happen. On paper, things looked better. Norvel Pelle would have been the inside presence and rebounder. Harkless would have stayed two years,which, even without Pelle, would have changed the dynamic in a big way. Harrison would not have gone south in year two. What's left is a great team for a dunk contest and a track meet, but not for a basketball game. I do not think Lavin is the problem as far as game coaching. He just needs better players. In the end, good players win games and make the coaches look smarter than they are.