In The end, It All Makes Sense

[beast of the east]

I would not say Lavin has outcoached Jay Wright in any game. The win by St JOHN'S. as OTIS pointed out, occurred in 2010-11, which was the HARDY TEAM.

And, Nova did have team chemistry problems that year with Scottie Reynolds, Corey FISCHER, etc.

And, herE's a interesting news tidbit Redmen Fans, I was glancing at Team conference records in the paper yesterday, and St John's, DePaul and Niagara are at or next to the bottom of their respective leagues. I hope the spirit of St Vincent DePaul, will prevail in helping the less fortunate today, improve their plight..

But, not the DepAUL Blue Demons !

And, shouldn't the Vatican look into voiding a team's mascot that has the word Demon in it? I think Demons are more offensive than REDMEN!

Do you really think that for the most part coaches are architecting grand schemes in games and their decisions are causing wins and losses to any significant degree? When there are two experienced and knowledgeable coaches on the floor, its more like a game of chess - one team goes big, the other team responds. one team presses, you make sure you have ball handlers in and run the press break routines you work on in practice. A guy makes some horrible choices on the court, you take him out and speak with him. I know it's a different sport, but Tony LaRussa liked to say that a great baseball manager is good for maybe 4-5 additional wins per year. Now of course that could be the difference between the playoffs or not, but on a game to game basis in basketball, its difficult to put a win or a loss on a coach.

To that end, can any of you proclaiming that Lavin out coached Wright, or the other way around, point to specific game decisions that made one or the other superior in the cited instance? I certainly can't

I think a head coach in basketball is the most vital coach in all of sports. Game preparation and in game adjustments are huge. Not taking away from any other sports, all coaches play a role, just IMO basketball coaches play the most significant.

If you believe that, try coaching an NFL football team, where coaches are much more important to the outcome. I'm not sayin gthat you don't do those things, but strategically there is only so much you can do. This is why "great" coaches like Phil Jackson and Pat Riley followed great teams where they knew they could win, and not once did they turn around a horrible team with bad players. The knew well enough

NBA is one thing, I should have mentioned that, some of those guys dont like to be coached but there are still very good coaches and very bad coaches. College basketball is another story.

Just curious why you think NFL head coach is much more important? I would put that second. They have coordinators and assistants for every position. They dont have to continually sub out and build a solid rotation. Play calling is huge but the majority of head coaches dont handle it.

The reason I say NFL, is that without coaches, teams would get crushed every week by inferior teams. In basketball, you've even had starting players coaching teams, guys like Russell, DeBusschere. Without a coach a ranked college team would still likely beat an inferior team. In football coaches mean everything, and by coaching I mean the entire coaching staff, not just the head coach.

 

[paultzman]

Beast of the East is the biggest Lavin apologist. I stopped reading his idiotic posts when he called me crazy for comparing Lavin to Norm, but then went on to compare Lavin to Lou!!!

This guy is the worst basketball coach I have ever seen here. I would put him up there with the Jarvis' and Norm's of the world. If this program truly wants to become relevant again they must get rid of this guy by the beginning of April.

Lavin's recruiting strategy was always flawed. He recruited some shady players like Harrison, Branch, Pelle, who had some questionable character issues. What's worse is he never constructed a TEAM with his recruiting. You are only as good as the team you build to play together. He is a grossly overrated recruiter for not balancing his roster position-wise.

The most important flaw that has set our program back another couple years is this clown's inability to develop players. Jakarr has declined since last year. So Beast of the East you can brag about him being BE ROY but ultimately your awesome coach failed miserably to make this kid better. That is a coach's job! It makes me nauseous reading these posts of people making excuses for Lavin when he is a wretched coach. People like Beast want a guy who can sweet talk reporters and recruit the 73rd best player in the country who can't shoot a lick. Enjoy mediocrity(at best) if you want to keep this vicious cycle going.

Sirvo, I agree with you, but when I post how I feel lol things get ugly.
So the only thing I`m gonna do is after every SJU game I`ll post the actual standings. That alone will speak volumes.

That`s not my comment or opinion. They can`t say that I`m making this stuff up or anything.
I`ll let others here post how I`m feeling and I`ll just say thankyou to them.

Now I have a question. Forget the state schools, but before coach K went to Duke was Duke a better program then St. John`s?
I honestly don`t know which is why I`m asking.

Why can`t SJU be an elite school again, it was in the 80s. It all comes down to getting the perfect coach who`s obsessed with getting them back.
Lavin is such a great recruit but why only one last year and 0 this year?
I`m not saying anything negative about his recruiting but why only one these last 2 years so far?

No here's what you poster you loser:

"lol have fun rooting hard for them. Last week we talked about acceptance, well yes I accept the fact that SJU sucks and always will suck.
Guess it`s better to call Syracuse NY`s since they are winners, lol what exactly has SJU done since the last 90s? one NCAA tourny which was a one and done.
Once DePaul kicks their ass they`ll be 0-4, 9-7 lol soooooooo saddddddd.

Hey mods you could delete this one too but even one of your fellow mods told me in pms last week that Lavin in a fraud and he must go.
Don`t ask who because i`m not saying. "

You also said you weren't following St. John's and wouldn't post here again. Do us all a favor, and leave. I honestly can't tell if you are a 14 year old poster, or just a stupid adult. By the way you spell, only one thing is certain.

lol i like to piss you, so I think I`m gonna stay. Hey mods I wasn`t gonna keep it going from last night, but it looks like Beasts wants to keep it going.
So are you going to tell him something or if not then hey I don`t have a problem fighting with this chump.

Any shot of renting a sand box for these guys? Let's move on.

 

[beast of the east]

Beast of the East is the biggest Lavin apologist. I stopped reading his idiotic posts when he called me crazy for comparing Lavin to Norm, but then went on to compare Lavin to Lou!!!

This guy is the worst basketball coach I have ever seen here. I would put him up there with the Jarvis' and Norm's of the world. If this program truly wants to become relevant again they must get rid of this guy by the beginning of April.

Lavin's recruiting strategy was always flawed. He recruited some shady players like Harrison, Branch, Pelle, who had some questionable character issues. What's worse is he never constructed a TEAM with his recruiting. You are only as good as the team you build to play together. He is a grossly overrated recruiter for not balancing his roster position-wise.

The most important flaw that has set our program back another couple years is this clown's inability to develop players. Jakarr has declined since last year. So Beast of the East you can brag about him being BE ROY but ultimately your awesome coach failed miserably to make this kid better. That is a coach's job! It makes me nauseous reading these posts of people making excuses for Lavin when he is a wretched coach. People like Beast want a guy who can sweet talk reporters and recruit the 73rd best player in the country who can't shoot a lick. Enjoy mediocrity(at best) if you want to keep this vicious cycle going.

Sirvo, I agree with you, but when I post how I feel lol things get ugly.
So the only thing I`m gonna do is after every SJU game I`ll post the actual standings. That alone will speak volumes.

That`s not my comment or opinion. They can`t say that I`m making this stuff up or anything.
I`ll let others here post how I`m feeling and I`ll just say thankyou to them.

Now I have a question. Forget the state schools, but before coach K went to Duke was Duke a better program then St. John`s?
I honestly don`t know which is why I`m asking.

Why can`t SJU be an elite school again, it was in the 80s. It all comes down to getting the perfect coach who`s obsessed with getting them back.
Lavin is such a great recruit but why only one last year and 0 this year?
I`m not saying anything negative about his recruiting but why only one these last 2 years so far?

We can't we be Duke? Coach K makes $4.7 million per year. Duke's endowment is $5.6 billion. Some private schools can hire anyone they want, even at ridiculous salaries. Most state schools can, and you said that. St. John's endowment is about $400 million. They had to struggle to come up with the money to pay Lavin, and that was only after one or more wealthy alumni stepped up. There is no serious evidence that the sky was the limit for SJU to hire a coach, and as such, at Lavin's salary, many thought that was the best hire, even if he was fired from his previous job.

 

[Amaseinyourface]

I would not say Lavin has outcoached Jay Wright in any game. The win by St JOHN'S. as OTIS pointed out, occurred in 2010-11, which was the HARDY TEAM.

And, Nova did have team chemistry problems that year with Scottie Reynolds, Corey FISCHER, etc.

And, herE's a interesting news tidbit Redmen Fans, I was glancing at Team conference records in the paper yesterday, and St John's, DePaul and Niagara are at or next to the bottom of their respective leagues. I hope the spirit of St Vincent DePaul, will prevail in helping the less fortunate today, improve their plight..

But, not the DepAUL Blue Demons !

And, shouldn't the Vatican look into voiding a team's mascot that has the word Demon in it? I think Demons are more offensive than REDMEN!

Do you really think that for the most part coaches are architecting grand schemes in games and their decisions are causing wins and losses to any significant degree? When there are two experienced and knowledgeable coaches on the floor, its more like a game of chess - one team goes big, the other team responds. one team presses, you make sure you have ball handlers in and run the press break routines you work on in practice. A guy makes some horrible choices on the court, you take him out and speak with him. I know it's a different sport, but Tony LaRussa liked to say that a great baseball manager is good for maybe 4-5 additional wins per year. Now of course that could be the difference between the playoffs or not, but on a game to game basis in basketball, its difficult to put a win or a loss on a coach.

To that end, can any of you proclaiming that Lavin out coached Wright, or the other way around, point to specific game decisions that made one or the other superior in the cited instance? I certainly can't

I think a head coach in basketball is the most vital coach in all of sports. Game preparation and in game adjustments are huge. Not taking away from any other sports, all coaches play a role, just IMO basketball coaches play the most significant.

If you believe that, try coaching an NFL football team, where coaches are much more important to the outcome. I'm not sayin gthat you don't do those things, but strategically there is only so much you can do. This is why "great" coaches like Phil Jackson and Pat Riley followed great teams where they knew they could win, and not once did they turn around a horrible team with bad players. The knew well enough

NBA is one thing, I should have mentioned that, some of those guys dont like to be coached but there are still very good coaches and very bad coaches. College basketball is another story.

Just curious why you think NFL head coach is much more important? I would put that second. They have coordinators and assistants for every position. They dont have to continually sub out and build a solid rotation. Play calling is huge but the majority of head coaches dont handle it.

The reason I say NFL, is that without coaches, teams would get crushed every week by inferior teams. In basketball, you've even had starting players coaching teams, guys like Russell, DeBusschere. Without a coach a ranked college team would still likely beat an inferior team. In football coaches mean everything, and by coaching I mean the entire coaching staff, not just the head coach.

Could the same not be said for a ranked college football team? . Im not saying Im right just what I think. Its a good debate

 

[sirvoo]

Beast of the East is the biggest Lavin apologist. I stopped reading his idiotic posts when he called me crazy for comparing Lavin to Norm, but then went on to compare Lavin to Lou!!!

This guy is the worst basketball coach I have ever seen here. I would put him up there with the Jarvis' and Norm's of the world. If this program truly wants to become relevant again they must get rid of this guy by the beginning of April.

Lavin's recruiting strategy was always flawed. He recruited some shady players like Harrison, Branch, Pelle, who had some questionable character issues. What's worse is he never constructed a TEAM with his recruiting. You are only as good as the team you build to play together. He is a grossly overrated recruiter for not balancing his roster position-wise.

The most important flaw that has set our program back another couple years is this clown's inability to develop players. Jakarr has declined since last year. So Beast of the East you can brag about him being BE ROY but ultimately your awesome coach failed miserably to make this kid better. That is a coach's job! It makes me nauseous reading these posts of people making excuses for Lavin when he is a wretched coach. People like Beast want a guy who can sweet talk reporters and recruit the 73rd best player in the country who can't shoot a lick. Enjoy mediocrity(at best) if you want to keep this vicious cycle going.

Lavin is the worst coach ever here? That is just about the most ridiculous thing you could possibly say. Norm Roberts hands down was the worst coach in St. John's history, and probably Big East history. He coached your father's team (I'm assuming you are Niko Roberts) to an NCAA berth, something NR couldn't do. Norm focused on DJ Kennedy as the star, and benched Hardy in favor of Malik Boothe. He didn't start Justin Brownlee either. If Lavin is to blame for the failure of this year's squad to perform, then surely he gets credit for reshuffling the deck and turning Norm's kids into winners. Don't give me this Dunlap garbage either. Lavin hired Dunlap, and the next season without Lavin at the helm, Dunlap lost the team (and some players). If you don't think Lavin is the boss, isn't it convenient that Harrison decided to go ballistic on an assistant in the games that Lavin missed attending his father's funeral?

Now back to your point that I'm a Lavin apologist. I agree with some of the tempered criticism that Lavin may not be the best bench coach in terms of X's and O's. If you were sober back then, and I'm thinking you may not have been, tell me who the player's gathered around during a timeout during Looie's era? Hint, it was the guy with the clipboard mapping plays. Another hint - it was Brian Mahoney. Why?? Because Looie wasn't as good at X's and 0's as Mahoney.

Next point. No one has seriously doubted that Mike Jarvis knows basketball. In fact I believe he was elected president of the NCAA basketball coach's association. He was universally respect until he took his eye off the ball. Maybe he started drinking with you, I don't know.

You like to engage in hyperbole and call people drunk yadayada. That is all a waste of my time. I am a social drinker once or twice a month and have been since college so relax bro. Nobody needs to waste their time reading that.

The numbers speak for themselves. Lavin has 1 NCAA appearance (with Norm's guys). If he doesn't get there this year he has completely failed IMO. Everyone here who is a reasonable person will tell you if he doesn't get us there this year he should be a goner.

When Norm headed into the senior season of D Hardy, Kennedy, Horne, and co...OH WAIT, he didn't because Norm stunk and wasn't able to see it through with the kids he brought it. Lavin should get the same treatment. What is this a question of if Beast has it his way and Lavin is kept on for another year. It's about politics and dollar signs...The two things that are a cancer to struggling programs in need of a transition. We need that transition!

I really hope we turn this around and beat Depaul and Providence. That could be huge. It;s not likely. If I had to forecast our chances I'd say we have a 25% chance of making it to the tourney. That's just based on the ineptitude I've seen in terms of player development both mentally and physically on the court.

 

[Eddyman11]

Christmas weekend I met Duane Woodward ( on tom pecora's staff at Fordham) at a friend from B. C. Athletics Dept who was having a holiday party.After trash talking for 15 minutes about how we ran them out the gym he gave me some interesting insight about their pregame prep. 1. he believed Jordan was a game changer for our program going forward. 2. They spent absolutley zero minutes prepping for Orlando. He didnt think he had the right mindset for success in this league. Said he looked confused on the court. 3. Doesnt believe Lavin is the answer. He doesnt think he's a bad coach, but didnt think he was the savior i was making him out to be (I was a few gin and tonics in so I may have been overzealous in my praise of Lavin)He didnt say who was, but he thought NYC kids were being over looked. 4. He believes only Jordan and Sampson have a shot at the NBA. I was suprised he didnt believe C. O can go

May not be anything we didnt know, but interesting to hear an opponents assesment of our program.

I never got and still don't get all the talk around here about CO and the NBA. He has yet to exhibit any offensive skills and is not much of a rebounder or defender. He's an undersized(by NBA standards) shot blocker. What am I missing????????????????

Well I believe he can develop into NBA talent. He has two things you cant coach Lenth and Timing. He's terrible at rebounding. Thats simply about positioning and desire and can be fixed. and he needs to add some muscle mass. We have to remember this kid hasnt been playing Basketball for that long. He would have to develop over the next two years.

Is he a lock for the NBA ? No. But he can definitely develop into a prospect by the end of his career. I see his ceiling as Serge Ibaka on the Thunder.

 

[beast of the east]

I would not say Lavin has outcoached Jay Wright in any game. The win by St JOHN'S. as OTIS pointed out, occurred in 2010-11, which was the HARDY TEAM.

And, Nova did have team chemistry problems that year with Scottie Reynolds, Corey FISCHER, etc.

And, herE's a interesting news tidbit Redmen Fans, I was glancing at Team conference records in the paper yesterday, and St John's, DePaul and Niagara are at or next to the bottom of their respective leagues. I hope the spirit of St Vincent DePaul, will prevail in helping the less fortunate today, improve their plight..

But, not the DepAUL Blue Demons !

And, shouldn't the Vatican look into voiding a team's mascot that has the word Demon in it? I think Demons are more offensive than REDMEN!

Do you really think that for the most part coaches are architecting grand schemes in games and their decisions are causing wins and losses to any significant degree? When there are two experienced and knowledgeable coaches on the floor, its more like a game of chess - one team goes big, the other team responds. one team presses, you make sure you have ball handlers in and run the press break routines you work on in practice. A guy makes some horrible choices on the court, you take him out and speak with him. I know it's a different sport, but Tony LaRussa liked to say that a great baseball manager is good for maybe 4-5 additional wins per year. Now of course that could be the difference between the playoffs or not, but on a game to game basis in basketball, its difficult to put a win or a loss on a coach.

To that end, can any of you proclaiming that Lavin out coached Wright, or the other way around, point to specific game decisions that made one or the other superior in the cited instance? I certainly can't

I think a head coach in basketball is the most vital coach in all of sports. Game preparation and in game adjustments are huge. Not taking away from any other sports, all coaches play a role, just IMO basketball coaches play the most significant.

If you believe that, try coaching an NFL football team, where coaches are much more important to the outcome. I'm not sayin gthat you don't do those things, but strategically there is only so much you can do. This is why "great" coaches like Phil Jackson and Pat Riley followed great teams where they knew they could win, and not once did they turn around a horrible team with bad players. The knew well enough

NBA is one thing, I should have mentioned that, some of those guys dont like to be coached but there are still very good coaches and very bad coaches. College basketball is another story.

Just curious why you think NFL head coach is much more important? I would put that second. They have coordinators and assistants for every position. They dont have to continually sub out and build a solid rotation. Play calling is huge but the majority of head coaches dont handle it.

The reason I say NFL, is that without coaches, teams would get crushed every week by inferior teams. In basketball, you've even had starting players coaching teams, guys like Russell, DeBusschere. Without a coach a ranked college team would still likely beat an inferior team. In football coaches mean everything, and by coaching I mean the entire coaching staff, not just the head coach.

Could the same not be said for a ranked college football team? . Im not saying Im right just what I think. Its a good debate

Think about how big a playbook is in football, and the average fan could not map both offensive plays nor defensive schemas. In basketball, most fans understand plays that are diagrammed, because there aren't that many ways to run an offense or defense. That's really my only point. Once you have a feel for basic basketball coaching, there isn't that much that separates competent coaches except the players in my opinion. I really don't think that there are many or any coaches that could get considerably more out of our current crop of players. But you are right, it is an interesting debate.

 

[sirvoo]

Also Jarvis was a bum. Nobody is confusing that guy with Coach K and Brad Stevens. Spent more time at the track than the gym.

 

[beast of the east]

Also Jarvis was a bum. Nobody is confusing that guy with Coach K and Brad Stevens. Spent more time at the track than the gym.

Mike Jarvis' record at St. John's: 110-61 overall (.643). In conference 50-32 (.609) He may have been a dog, but he won here.

For those who care:

Lou Carnesecca: 526-200 (.724) overall at St. John's. In conference : 138.75 (.646) It's fair to say we would take that now, easily. Though everyone took it for granted back then.
Joe Lapchick 334-130 overall (.720)


It's safe to say that Jarvis had the second best conference record in St. John's history after Carnesecca.

 

[monte]

Christmas weekend I met Duane Woodward ( on tom pecora's staff at Fordham) at a friend from B. C. Athletics Dept who was having a holiday party.After trash talking for 15 minutes about how we ran them out the gym he gave me some interesting insight about their pregame prep. 1. he believed Jordan was a game changer for our program going forward. 2. They spent absolutley zero minutes prepping for Orlando. He didnt think he had the right mindset for success in this league. Said he looked confused on the court. 3. Doesnt believe Lavin is the answer. He doesnt think he's a bad coach, but didnt think he was the savior i was making him out to be (I was a few gin and tonics in so I may have been overzealous in my praise of Lavin)He didnt say who was, but he thought NYC kids were being over looked. 4. He believes only Jordan and Sampson have a shot at the NBA. I was suprised he didnt believe C. O can go

May not be anything we didnt know, but interesting to hear an opponents assesment of our program.

.

I never got and still don't get all the talk around here about CO and the NBA. He has yet to exhibit any offensive skills and is not much of a rebounder or defender. He's an undersized(by NBA standards) shot blocker. What am I missing????????????????

Well I believe he can develop into NBA talent. He has two things you cant coach Lenth and Timing. He's terrible at rebounding. Thats simply about positioning and desire and can be fixed. and he needs to add some muscle mass. We have to remember this kid hasnt been playing Basketball for that long. He would have to develop over the next two years.

Is he a lock for the NBA ? No. But he can definitely develop into a prospect by the end of his career. I see his ceiling as Serge Ibaka on the Thunder.

The most important asset that can't be coached, and for someone with his skill set, is height. And by NBA standards he's not tall at 6'8"(maybe). The kid is just so raw that it would take a phenomenal amount of improvement for him to develop in to an NBA player. And so far we haven't seen any improvement at all. I'm not saying the NBA is out of the realm of possibility, but at this point I'm just hoping he develops in to a serviceable college center.

 

[beast of the east]

Christmas weekend I met Duane Woodward ( on tom pecora's staff at Fordham) at a friend from B. C. Athletics Dept who was having a holiday party.After trash talking for 15 minutes about how we ran them out the gym he gave me some interesting insight about their pregame prep. 1. he believed Jordan was a game changer for our program going forward. 2. They spent absolutley zero minutes prepping for Orlando. He didnt think he had the right mindset for success in this league. Said he looked confused on the court. 3. Doesnt believe Lavin is the answer. He doesnt think he's a bad coach, but didnt think he was the savior i was making him out to be (I was a few gin and tonics in so I may have been overzealous in my praise of Lavin)He didnt say who was, but he thought NYC kids were being over looked. 4. He believes only Jordan and Sampson have a shot at the NBA. I was suprised he didnt believe C. O can go

May not be anything we didnt know, but interesting to hear an opponents assesment of our program.

I never got and still don't get all the talk around here about CO and the NBA. He has yet to exhibit any offensive skills and is not much of a rebounder or defender. He's an undersized(by NBA standards) shot blocker. What am I missing????????????????

Well I believe he can develop into NBA talent. He has two things you cant coach Lenth and Timing. He's terrible at rebounding. Thats simply about positioning and desire and can be fixed. and he needs to add some muscle mass. We have to remember this kid hasnt been playing Basketball for that long. He would have to develop over the next two years.

Is he a lock for the NBA ? No. But he can definitely develop into a prospect by the end of his career. I see his ceiling as Serge Ibaka on the Thunder.

The most important asset that can't be coached, and for someone with his skill set, is height. And by NBA standards he's not tall at 6'8"(maybe). The kid is just so raw that it would take a phenomenal amount of improvement for him to develop in to an NBA player. And so far we haven't seen any improvement at all. I'm not saying the NBA is out of the realm of possibility, but at this point I'm just hoping he develops in to a serviceable college center.

Mark Eaton's best asset was shot blocking. For his career he blocked 3.5 shots per game in the NBA, but only 6 points. He did average a subpar 7.9 rebounds per game. Eaton, though, was 7'3", a whopping 6 inches taller than CO, so I guess it's not a great comparison except for the lack of offensive skills. CO is much more athletic though, but his fluidness on offense isn't there at this point

 

[Eddyman11]

Christmas weekend I met Duane Woodward ( on tom pecora's staff at Fordham) at a friend from B. C. Athletics Dept who was having a holiday party.After trash talking for 15 minutes about how we ran them out the gym he gave me some interesting insight about their pregame prep. 1. he believed Jordan was a game changer for our program going forward. 2. They spent absolutley zero minutes prepping for Orlando. He didnt think he had the right mindset for success in this league. Said he looked confused on the court. 3. Doesnt believe Lavin is the answer. He doesnt think he's a bad coach, but didnt think he was the savior i was making him out to be (I was a few gin and tonics in so I may have been overzealous in my praise of Lavin)He didnt say who was, but he thought NYC kids were being over looked. 4. He believes only Jordan and Sampson have a shot at the NBA. I was suprised he didnt believe C. O can go

May not be anything we didnt know, but interesting to hear an opponents assesment of our program.

.

I never got and still don't get all the talk around here about CO and the NBA. He has yet to exhibit any offensive skills and is not much of a rebounder or defender. He's an undersized(by NBA standards) shot blocker. What am I missing????????????????

Well I believe he can develop into NBA talent. He has two things you cant coach Lenth and Timing. He's terrible at rebounding. Thats simply about positioning and desire and can be fixed. and he needs to add some muscle mass. We have to remember this kid hasnt been playing Basketball for that long. He would have to develop over the next two years.

Is he a lock for the NBA ? No. But he can definitely develop into a prospect by the end of his career. I see his ceiling as Serge Ibaka on the Thunder.

The most important asset that can't be coached, and for someone with his skill set, is height. And by NBA standards he's not tall at 6'8"(maybe). The kid is just so raw that it would take a phenomenal amount of improvement for him to develop in to an NBA player. And so far we haven't seen any improvement at all. I'm not saying the NBA is out of the realm of possibility, but at this point I'm just hoping he develops in to a serviceable college center.

Let me ask you this: If you are an NBA GM and by his senior year He is averaging 8 pts 10 rebounds and 4.5 blocks a game... Would you spend a 1st or 2nd rd pick on him? (trust me I know those number are far fetched)

 

[beast of the east]

Christmas weekend I met Duane Woodward ( on tom pecora's staff at Fordham) at a friend from B. C. Athletics Dept who was having a holiday party.After trash talking for 15 minutes about how we ran them out the gym he gave me some interesting insight about their pregame prep. 1. he believed Jordan was a game changer for our program going forward. 2. They spent absolutley zero minutes prepping for Orlando. He didnt think he had the right mindset for success in this league. Said he looked confused on the court. 3. Doesnt believe Lavin is the answer. He doesnt think he's a bad coach, but didnt think he was the savior i was making him out to be (I was a few gin and tonics in so I may have been overzealous in my praise of Lavin)He didnt say who was, but he thought NYC kids were being over looked. 4. He believes only Jordan and Sampson have a shot at the NBA. I was suprised he didnt believe C. O can go

May not be anything we didnt know, but interesting to hear an opponents assesment of our program.

.

I never got and still don't get all the talk around here about CO and the NBA. He has yet to exhibit any offensive skills and is not much of a rebounder or defender. He's an undersized(by NBA standards) shot blocker. What am I missing????????????????

Well I believe he can develop into NBA talent. He has two things you cant coach Lenth and Timing. He's terrible at rebounding. Thats simply about positioning and desire and can be fixed. and he needs to add some muscle mass. We have to remember this kid hasnt been playing Basketball for that long. He would have to develop over the next two years.

Is he a lock for the NBA ? No. But he can definitely develop into a prospect by the end of his career. I see his ceiling as Serge Ibaka on the Thunder.

The most important asset that can't be coached, and for someone with his skill set, is height. And by NBA standards he's not tall at 6'8"(maybe). The kid is just so raw that it would take a phenomenal amount of improvement for him to develop in to an NBA player. And so far we haven't seen any improvement at all. I'm not saying the NBA is out of the realm of possibility, but at this point I'm just hoping he develops in to a serviceable college center.

Let me ask you this: If you are an NBA GM and by his senior year He is averaging 8 pts 10 rebounds and 4.5 blocks a game... Would you spend a 1st or 2nd rd pick on him? (trust me I know those number are far fetched)

Late first round to mid second round, presuming those numbers hold up in conference play and tournament play

 

[Eddyman11]

Christmas weekend I met Duane Woodward ( on tom pecora's staff at Fordham) at a friend from B. C. Athletics Dept who was having a holiday party.After trash talking for 15 minutes about how we ran them out the gym he gave me some interesting insight about their pregame prep. 1. he believed Jordan was a game changer for our program going forward. 2. They spent absolutley zero minutes prepping for Orlando. He didnt think he had the right mindset for success in this league. Said he looked confused on the court. 3. Doesnt believe Lavin is the answer. He doesnt think he's a bad coach, but didnt think he was the savior i was making him out to be (I was a few gin and tonics in so I may have been overzealous in my praise of Lavin)He didnt say who was, but he thought NYC kids were being over looked. 4. He believes only Jordan and Sampson have a shot at the NBA. I was suprised he didnt believe C. O can go

May not be anything we didnt know, but interesting to hear an opponents assesment of our program.

.

I never got and still don't get all the talk around here about CO and the NBA. He has yet to exhibit any offensive skills and is not much of a rebounder or defender. He's an undersized(by NBA standards) shot blocker. What am I missing????????????????

Well I believe he can develop into NBA talent. He has two things you cant coach Lenth and Timing. He's terrible at rebounding. Thats simply about positioning and desire and can be fixed. and he needs to add some muscle mass. We have to remember this kid hasnt been playing Basketball for that long. He would have to develop over the next two years.

Is he a lock for the NBA ? No. But he can definitely develop into a prospect by the end of his career. I see his ceiling as Serge Ibaka on the Thunder.

The most important asset that can't be coached, and for someone with his skill set, is height. And by NBA standards he's not tall at 6'8"(maybe). The kid is just so raw that it would take a phenomenal amount of improvement for him to develop in to an NBA player. And so far we haven't seen any improvement at all. I'm not saying the NBA is out of the realm of possibility, but at this point I'm just hoping he develops in to a serviceable college center.

Let me ask you this: If you are an NBA GM and by his senior year He is averaging 8 pts 10 rebounds and 4.5 blocks a game... Would you spend a 1st or 2nd rd pick on him? (trust me I know those number are far fetched)

Late first round to mid second round, presuming those numbers hold up in conference play and tournament play

I have him also late 1st ... He has a long way to go as right now those numbers seem astronomical aside from the blocks. But hey 2 years is a long time for someone who only has 5 years of basketball on their resume.

 

[Moose]

Also Jarvis was a bum. Nobody is confusing that guy with Coach K and Brad Stevens. Spent more time at the track than the gym.

Mike Jarvis' record at St. John's: 110-61 overall (.643). In conference 50-32 (.609) He may have been a dog, but he won here.

For those who care:

Lou Carnesecca: 526-200 (.724) overall at St. John's. In conference : 138.75 (.646) It's fair to say we would take that now, easily. Though everyone took it for granted back then.
Joe Lapchick 334-130 overall (.720)


It's safe to say that Jarvis had the second best conference record in St. John's history after Carnesecca.

Those numbers don't look right. Do you have the numbers that include the wins vacated while Jarvis was coach?

 

[simplyred]

It is pretty low for someone to attack the coach by attacking the character of the kids he brougt in. Especially when the character assissination is baseless.

 

[sirvoo]

It is pretty low for someone to attack the coach by attacking the character of the kids he brougt in. Especially when the character assissination is baseless.

I couldn't disagree with you more. How is it low to want your coach to bring in kids with tremendous character? Bringing in guys with good character=winning. I would go as far to say that is the main reason why we are not a good team right now. Some of these guys are old enough and hopefully mature enough to right the ship... Let's hope

 

[Ray Morgan]

We get the better opposition, and lose to them all. And it all makes sense. I hang with an older crowd. Some former college players who knocked around the game for years, assistants in junior college. No big deal, but they know the game. I talk up our talent, and who Lavin beat out to get them. They laugh. If these guys were as good as you say, they tell me, they would be at Kentucky, Duke or Kansas. But we out recruited Kansas for Sampson. They laugh again, and say that if Kansas really coveted Sampson, he would be at Kansas. They need to fill out their bench too, and why not take a flyer on a high level athlete that can sit and learn from a good staff, and not be asked for much. So, they say, they and their handlers know that what Lavin is selling sounds good-they can start at SJU and be the man. But what about NBA ready Sanchez? They laugh at the story that he just wants to experience college life. They say he probably needs a season of college to showcase what he has for a chance at a career in Europe. If he was NBA ready, he would have signed years ago. We talk of Branch and Hooper. Couldn't get minutes at Texas A&M at Harvard? Forget the reasons you read. They couldn't get minutes because they weren't good enough.

I ask you this...if your friends are so insightful and knowledgable of the game, why were they only assistants at the JC level? I would think that if they are that good a coach and have that great of a basketball mind, the D1 colleges would be all over them to hire them.

Saying that a team really didn't want a player, after the fact that they couldn't sign him is nothing more than an excuse. You say that if all those high profile schools really wanted players, they would get them? Look at Emmanuel Mudiay, currently the no. 5 recruit in 2014. He is going to southern Methodist. He chose Southern Methodist even though he had offers from Baylor, Kansas, Kentucky, and Oklahoma State. So you are saying that those other schools didn't really have an interest in the 5th best player in his class, because if they really wanted him, they would have gotten him?
Can any poster on this board sit here and say that we didn't really want Amile Jefferson or Isiah Whitehead, or any other recruit that we missed out on?

You mention Sanchez and that if he was NBA ready he would have signed years ago. Guess what? Maybe he wasn't NBA ready years ago. It's not out of the realm of possibility that he grew or improved over the last couple years. During every one of our games that is on tv, the announcers always mention how his size and skillset are something that NBA GM's and scouts are looking at. Do they ever say that he is going to be a lottery pick? No. But they do say that the potential and talent is there.

But I'm sure your friends are right. Through their years of experience at the JC level, they obviously know more about the game than the Calipari's and Bill Self's and the NBA GM's/scout's of the world.

1. I am not familiar with the particulars of the Mudiay recruitment. Apparently you believe that it is both offensive and outrageous to conclude that a player choosing SJU over Kansas indicates that it is not a player Kansas desperately wanted. I found their comments so clearly obvious that it truly only offers insight to those blinded to loyalty. Yes, SJU, every so often, will get a recruit that the top programs covet beyond all others. Over 30 years ago, Looie signed Chris Mullin, who was coveted by Duke. Of course, Chris was a local kid who wanted to stay home and knew Looie since he was 9 years old. At some point, I hope, there will be a spectacular player who is from NY and whose father played for SJU, or who knew Lavin since he was a toddler and played on his garage mounted hoop since he was 8 years old. In other words, there will be particular circumstances, on those very rare occasions, that sway a can't miss talent our way. But most times, not.

2. As for Sanchez, does he look NBA ready to you? Yes, he is 6'8 and plays basketball for a Big East school. Therefore, there is a chance he one day plays in the NBA. I also hear Jennifer Lawrence likes guys with brown hair, which puts me in the running to be her next lover. I would rate Sanchez' chances of playing in the NBA much higher than my chances of dating Jennifer Lawrence, but I wouldn't bet on either. Which gets to their other outrageous and offensive statement: that you have to be a little leery of any coach-speak or media hype claiming that a 25 year old is NBA ready but chose college because he likes the camaraderie only achieved through campus life.

When you watch Sampson, do you think he starts for Kansas, even in this down year for them? When you see Sanchez, do you think the NBA can't find better options for their roster who also happen to be 21 and not 26 by draft day? Just asking.

 

[beast of the east]

Also Jarvis was a bum. Nobody is confusing that guy with Coach K and Brad Stevens. Spent more time at the track than the gym.

Mike Jarvis' record at St. John's: 110-61 overall (.643). In conference 50-32 (.609) He may have been a dog, but he won here.

For those who care:

Lou Carnesecca: 526-200 (.724) overall at St. John's. In conference : 138.75 (.646) It's fair to say we would take that now, easily. Though everyone took it for granted back then.
Joe Lapchick 334-130 overall (.720)


It's safe to say that Jarvis had the second best conference record in St. John's history after Carnesecca.

Those numbers don't look right. Do you have the numbers that include the wins vacated while Jarvis was coach?

I honestly don't care about wins vacated, any more than the teams that were awarded wins really earned them. I believe those were the game record for Jarvis.

 

[Moose]

Also Jarvis was a bum. Nobody is confusing that guy with Coach K and Brad Stevens. Spent more time at the track than the gym.

Mike Jarvis' record at St. John's: 110-61 overall (.643). In conference 50-32 (.609) He may have been a dog, but he won here.

For those who care:

Lou Carnesecca: 526-200 (.724) overall at St. John's. In conference : 138.75 (.646) It's fair to say we would take that now, easily. Though everyone took it for granted back then.
Joe Lapchick 334-130 overall (.720)


It's safe to say that Jarvis had the second best conference record in St. John's history after Carnesecca.

Those numbers don't look right. Do you have the numbers that include the wins vacated while Jarvis was coach?

I honestly don't care about wins vacated, any more than the teams that were awarded wins really earned them. I believe those were the game record for Jarvis.

Rules are rules and Mikey broke them

What is your take on Lavins 2nd yr? He was coach but that record counts