Hofstra (UBS), Sat., Dec. 30, 12p, FS-1

[paultzman]

On one hand, it may be best to judge Jenkins’ overall play after first five or six Big East games. Two down already with mixed results, so the next three or four should be telling. On the other hand, Rick will stick with him in all probability, so this whole exercise may be moot. Wilcher in no way is ready imo to take PG reins this season.

 

[Redenbacher]

How do you market SJU as a pro team, maybe a notch below the Knicks? Any suggestions?

Win consistently and make a half decent run in the NCAA tournament. Until that happens, attendance at the large arenas will be anywhere from bad to fair.

 

[room112]

I think a lot has to do with race and environment. I was born in 1948 and started playing organized sports when I was 10 years old for the Jamaica Youth Organization in Queens. Our teams consisted of White, Black, Puerto Rican, and Chinese players. We were all just neighborhood kids just looking to play sports and have fun.

Unfortunately, my athletic career ended when I graduated from high school in 1965. During the 1960's, 70's, and 80's basketball was truly the "city game". No matter where you lived, you could always find a park to play in with good competition. I even used to travel to Rockville Center to watch the tournament legendary St Agnes coach Frank Morris ran. Two of my good friends still rave about how happy they were to play with Frank Alagia, since he was a true point guard and when it was just them in the backcourt the ball didn't get shared as much, lol. Rick Marsh played at Manhattan then with the Warriors and Calvin Bruton played at Wichita St and then in Australia, where he still lives and is a member of the NBL Hall of Fame.

I have had many conversations with Frank, Brian Mahoney, and Billy Schaeffer about the lack of Caucasian ballplayers in New York City and Long Island. It was pointed out to me that Lacrosse was now the popular sport on Long Island.

Paultzman and I belong to a Facebook group, The Bronx basketball Hall of Fame. In our era there were many great Caucasian ballplayers at various high schools throughout NYC and Long Island. This caused their friends to attend their games and support them, while developing a love for the game. The younger generation does not appear to have this connection with their classmates who play basketball, therefore, they are not fans. Also, inner city youth view basketball as a way to get to college and improve their situation in life. Kids growing up on Long Island, are not as reliant on a sports scholarship to attend college.

I believe that the apathy a lot of kids have towards college basketball is that they haven't grown up with the game. However, as you stated, things will improve for St Johns with Pitino.

Fun facts: in high school, my favorite college player was our very own Kenny McIntyre. The peer whose game I liked was Jimmy Hayes of St Agnes who also graduated in 1965 , went to Prep School, then Boston University, and the ABA.

Wishing everyone a Happy, Healthy, and Blessed New Year.

Very interesting observations. Just figured I'd add that personally, some of my favorite memories growing up were playing pickup basketball games, and the courts were usually always full. One thing I've observed in recent years around NYC is that the basketball courts in the parks always seem empty. I've taken my son to tons of different playgrounds all across the boroughs, and always witness the same thing, empty basketball courts. It makes me wonder if with modern technology, kids are more glued to phones, apps, computers, video games, etc, and you won't see as many kids passionate about the game. I really have no idea, but makes it's sad staring at empty basketball courts.

 

[Knight]

If you want to kickstart the attendance at games you need to make it about more than basketball. Make it an event. Music, entertainment, etc. There are too many entertainment options at this time for the price of attending a basketball game

 

[Knight]

I just don’t see Wilcher as our pg next year. He is a step slow on defense especially laterally. He was in for two plays against Hofstra, was immediately targeted, and failed both tests. He has shown us no flashes of brilliance so far. He does not have an offensive game to overcome his defensive liabilities. I hope I am wrong on this one.

We have no one who can back up Jenkins without suffering a major drop in performance. When he picks up four fouls, we become rudderless. We have lost a few games already because he got four fouls. And he often reaches in to foul unnecessarily. I fear the Big East will target him to get him in foul trouble as the season progresses.

I disagree about Wilcher being a step slow. I think one of his assets is his quickness in on ball defending.

 

[mjmaherjr]

Very interesting observations. Just figured I'd add that personally, some of my favorite memories growing up were playing pickup basketball games, and the courts were usually always full. One thing I've observed in recent years around NYC is that the basketball courts in the parks always seem empty. I've taken my son to tons of different playgrounds all across the boroughs, and always witness the same thing, empty basketball courts. It makes me wonder if with modern technology, kids are more glued to phones, apps, computers, video games, etc, and you won't see as many kids passionate about the game. I really have no idea, but makes it's sad staring at empty basketball courts.

I don't even know on Long Island if it's just basketball courts. Behind my parents house is the baseball school field as kids we literally went to every afternoon after school and all day on weekends literally all the kids in the neighborhoods to play baseball. I don't remember the last time I even saw 1 pickup game on a weekend when I stop by my parents.

 

[mjmaherjr]

If you want to kickstart the attendance at games you need to make it about more than basketball. Make it an event. Music, entertainment, etc. There are too many entertainment options at this time for the price of attending a basketball game

Coming soon to an MSG game near you. St Johns vs Villanova with a special presentation of The Lion King at half time at mid court

 

[CBA69]

I disagree about Wilcher being a step slow. I think one of his assets is his quickness in on ball defending.

I disagree. I've watched all of the St.John's games this year and every time Wilcher is in the game, he seems to get constantly beat by the man he's defending who then drives unimpeded into the offensive zone for either an open shot or a pass to an open man.

I think one of the reasons for this is Wilcher picks up his man too tightly in the backcourt. He should lay off his man a little more in the backcourt and pick him up more tightly in the front court.

 

[dk423]

I disagree. I've watched all of the St.John's games this year and every time Wilcher is in the game, he seems to get constantly beat by the man he's defending who then drives unimpeded into the offensive zone for either an open shot or a pass to an open man.

I think one of the reasons for this is Wilcher picks up his man too tightly in the backcourt. He should lay off his man a little more in the backcourt and pick him up more tightly in the front court.

I think he’s also thinking way too much out there so he can’t consistently take advantage of his athleticism

 

[fuchsia]

It’s a shame really . College BB back in the day ,,was a big deal here in NYC . All the local schools had good programs .

And , the doubleheaders at the Garden drew well . St John ‘s needs to be the fire starter to get that winning tradition back in NYC .

Pitino.can do it ..He wants to do it .

Ten years after they went to the Final Four, with multiple NCAA appearances after the Final Four, NYU went from Division I to Division III in hoops. I went to NYU undergrad and was living and working in Boston among BC grads when this happened. I switched to St. John's fan six years before I enrolled as a doctoral student in 1976. Pitino can't do it alone.

 

[monte]

How do you market SJU as a pro team, maybe a notch below the Knicks? Any suggestions?

I ain't a marketing guy, but bringing Rick is was a great start. He's got star power. Think maybe a stronger advertising campaign. Definitely more games at MSG will help. Not really sure. But playing Hofstra at UBS ain't helping none.

 

[SLYFOXX1968]

I think a lot has to do with race and environment. I was born in 1948 and started playing organized sports when I was 10 years old for the Jamaica Youth Organization in Queens. Our teams consisted of White, Black, Puerto Rican, and Chinese players. We were all just neighborhood kids just looking to play sports and have fun.

Unfortunately, my athletic career ended when I graduated from high school in 1965. During the 1960's, 70's, and 80's basketball was truly the "city game". No matter where you lived, you could always find a park to play in with good competition. I even used to travel to Rockville Center to watch the tournament legendary St Agnes coach Frank Morris ran. Two of my good friends still rave about how happy they were to play with Frank Alagia, since he was a true point guard and when it was just them in the backcourt the ball didn't get shared as much, lol. Rick Marsh played at Manhattan then with the Warriors and Calvin Bruton played at Wichita St and then in Australia, where he still lives and is a member of the NBL Hall of Fame.

I have had many conversations with Frank, Brian Mahoney, and Billy Schaeffer about the lack of Caucasian ballplayers in New York City and Long Island. It was pointed out to me that Lacrosse was now the popular sport on Long Island.

Paultzman and I belong to a Facebook group, The Bronx basketball Hall of Fame. In our era there were many great Caucasian ballplayers at various high schools throughout NYC and Long Island. This caused their friends to attend their games and support them, while developing a love for the game. The younger generation does not appear to have this connection with their classmates who play basketball, therefore, they are not fans. Also, inner city youth view basketball as a way to get to college and improve their situation in life. Kids growing up on Long Island, are not as reliant on a sports scholarship to attend college.

I believe that the apathy a lot of kids have towards college basketball is that they haven't grown up with the game. However, as you stated, things will improve for St Johns with Pitino.

Fun facts: in high school, my favorite college player was our very own Kenny McIntyre. The peer whose game I liked was Jimmy Hayes of St Agnes who also graduated in 1965 , went to Prep School, then Boston University, and the ABA.

Wishing everyone a Happy, Healthy, and Blessed New Year.

Your comments are very interesting and since you and I are about the same age , I get everything you have mentioned .

You are right in referencing your growing up in the Jamaica area and the fact that you were playing with kids of all Races, Creeds, Religion , etc . I don’t recall from my experiences that it was any big deal . In other words , iSports was a great uniter . In my opinion .

I don’t have answers about why there aren’t more kids of all races playing BB . Our African American youth are most prominent in both , Basketball and Football . But , if we notice , there aren’t a lot of outstanding Football players of any race coming out of the Metro Area .
Contrast that to my home here in SCarolina and the rest of the South where both , FB and Basketball talent is very abundant . Why ?
I have no idea .

But , I could ask another question . Why are we seeing so few African American kids playing Baseball at any level ? College or Major Leagues ?
I’m sure you recall the days of our Dodgers , Giants having Campy , Jackie , Willie , Gilliam , Newcombe , Joe Black , Hank Thompson , etc .

Once Baseball opened up to Black players , kids of all races embraced them as fans and heroes . I know I did .

Panther , I don’t understand why our playgrounds and outdoor Courts , Baseball Fields are vacant much of the time . Kids , even you and I were growing up didn’t need Adults to organize pick up games , which lasted from morning to night time . But , as you noted it’s rare today that we see any kids outside playing . I don’t get it .

I know you mentioned one of your favorite Johnnies was Kenny McKintyre . Mine from that era , was Sonny Dove . Back then it didn’t seem to matter what Race our favorite players were . You know what I mean ?
More recently , after Chris Mullin , my favorite Johnnie was Walter Berry . Of course , Mark Jackson too .

I don’t know why I remember it , but back in the glory days of the mid 80’s , I recall a quote from Ed Pinckney of Villanova , when asked about. Chris Mullin , he said “. I have been playing with or against Chris Mullin since 4th Grade and I’m not surprised about anything he does on a Basketball Court .”

So , we haven’t got the Answers to these questions posed but , perhaps those that come after , will .

We can hope as I think America needs a lot more work as our Nation gets larger and more complicated . Sports can be a catalyst to unite us and not divide us . Let’s hope so .

 

[kranmars]

I ain't a marketing guy, but bringing Rick is was a great start. He's got star power. Think maybe a stronger advertising campaign. Definitely more games at MSG will help. Not really sure. But playing Hofstra at UBS ain't helping none.

Make Pitino the central figure just as the Knicks did when they hired Riley.

He has the most cachet since Riley to coach a Garden team, and it is obviously easier in college to market around the coach.

 

[logen]

Simple answer to me and has been shared by others on this thread, suburban kids don’t go outside to play anymore, period end of story. Everything is organized, costs money, sports in suburbia have to a large degree has become just another con, with coaches and “trainers” selling that your kid will be the next superstar if you only give me two to four hours a week with him or her at the discounted price of $100 bucks an hour.
We learned the hard way but the fun way, on the playground, from older players who wouldn’t let you near the court if you didn’t learn to play the right way. Because it wasn’t about anything but winning and staying on the court, playing from sunup past sundown if you got bitten by the bug.

 

[panther2]

Your comments are very interesting and since you and I are about the same age , I get everything you have mentioned .

You are right in referencing your growing up in the Jamaica area and the fact that you were playing with kids of all Races, Creeds, Religion , etc . I don’t recall from my experiences that it was any big deal . In other words , iSports was a great uniter . In my opinion .

I don’t have answers about why there aren’t more kids of all races playing BB . Our African American youth are most prominent in both , Basketball and Football . But , if we notice , there aren’t a lot of outstanding Football players of any race coming out of the Metro Area .
Contrast that to my home here in SCarolina and the rest of the South where both , FB and Basketball talent is very abundant . Why ?
I have no idea .

But , I could ask another question . Why are we seeing so few African American kids playing Baseball at any level ? College or Major Leagues ?
I’m sure you recall the days of our Dodgers , Giants having Campy , Jackie , Willie , Gilliam , Newcombe , Joe Black , Hank Thompson , etc .

Once Baseball opened up to Black players , kids of all races embraced them as fans and heroes . I know I did .

Panther , I don’t understand why our playgrounds and outdoor Courts , Baseball Fields are vacant much of the time . Kids , even you and I were growing up didn’t need Adults to organize pick up games , which lasted from morning to night time . But , as you noted it’s rare today that we see any kids outside playing . I don’t get it .

I know you mentioned one of your favorite Johnnies was Kenny McKintyre . Mine from that era , was Sonny Dove . Back then it didn’t seem to matter what Race our favorite players were . You know what I mean ?
More recently , after Chris Mullin , my favorite Johnnie was Walter Berry . Of course , Mark Jackson too .

I don’t know why I remember it , but back in the glory days of the mid 80’s , I recall a quote from Ed Pinckney of Villanova , when asked about. Chris Mullin , he said “. I have been playing with or against Chris Mullin since 4th Grade and I’m not surprised about anything he does on a Basketball Court .”

So , we haven’t got the Answers to these questions posed but , perhaps those that come after , will .

We can hope as I think America needs a lot more work as our Nation gets larger and more complicated . Sports can be a catalyst to unite us and not divide us . Let’s hope so .

Everything you said is so very true. We were allowed to be kids growing up, play amongst ourselves and just have fun. As logen said in his post everything today is about money. I never paid a dime to play sports, all of my coaches volunteered their time. Now programs charge for tryouts, I'm serious. What kind of shit is that?

You are right on point when you talk about just going to the park and playing, there were always older kids out there as role models who taught you how to play the game the right way. Now, as soon as a young kid shows promise, there is a handler trying to convince the parents that he knows what is best for their child, smh. How the hell is a 40 year old man living in his Mama's basement going to advise our youth on accountability and responsibility in life. Most trainers are looking for a meal ticket.

I too, wonder about the declining number of Blacks in the Major Leagues. The answer may be two fold., a lot of NYC public schools no longer have baseball teams and the cost of playing on summer travel teams is prohibitive for many inner city youths.

NYC, Nassau, and Suffolk counties are very segregated. For example, Bayside, Fresh Meadows, Whitestone are predominantly White, while St Albans, Cambria Heights, and Laurelton are predominantly Black. All of the areas I mentioned are stable middle class neighborhoods with nice homes. While you and I experienced going to school and playing sports with kids of different races, today's youth do not have that opportunity, which is a shame.

 

[Roamer]

If you want to kickstart the attendance at games you need to make it about more than basketball. Make it an event. Music, entertainment, etc. There are too many entertainment options at this time for the price of attending a basketball game

I am actually surprised and think we have great attendance for a program that has pretty much stunk for over 2 decades at a commuter school. Once we are consistently winning we will not have any attendance issues whatsoever.

 

[redmannorth]

Everything you said is so very true. We were allowed to be kids growing up, play amongst ourselves and just have fun. As logen said in his post everything today is about money. I never paid a dime to play sports, all of my coaches volunteered their time. Now programs charge for tryouts, I'm serious. What kind of shit is that?

You are right on point when you talk about just going to the park and playing, there were always older kids out there as role models who taught you how to play the game the right way. Now, as soon as a young kid shows promise, there is a handler trying to convince the parents that he knows what is best for their child, smh. How the hell is a 40 year old man living in his Mama's basement going to advise our youth on accountability and responsibility in life. Most trainers are looking for a meal ticket.

I too, wonder about the declining number of Blacks in the Major Leagues. The answer may be two fold., a lot of NYC public schools no longer have baseball teams and the cost of playing on summer travel teams is prohibitive for many inner city youths.

NYC, Nassau, and Suffolk counties are very segregated. For example, Bayside, Fresh Meadows, Whitestone are predominantly White, while St Albans, Cambria Heights, and Laurelton are predominantly Black. All of the areas I mentioned are stable middle class neighborhoods with nice homes. While you and I experienced going to school and playing sports with kids of different races, today's youth do not have that opportunity, which is a shame.

I did not grow up in NYC but as a child spent every free minute outside playing sports with my friends. Having watched my two sons grow up I saw a radical difference from my life and theirs. One of the biggest differences is we had no screens in our day. No phone, no iPad, no computer, no Nintendo, no play station, etc, where you don’t have to leave the house to play with your friends. Instead of playing baseball on the street or in the park they play video games from their bedroom or basement with others who can be in another part of the world. Often I will walk downstairs and see my son playing video games and seconds after I enter the room he will say to me Tyrese Samuel’s says hello to you dad. And ignorant me looking around the room responds where is Tyrese ?
And my son who has some headset on responds he is on campus at Gainesville now, previously at South OrangeNJ, and lets me know he is playing a game with him , Call of Duty , or something like that. I just shake my head and walk back upstairs.
I feel bad for kids today they didn’t experience what we did. Playing in direct proximity with friends , learning team sports, learning to wait your turn to play, learning to share and the disappointment of not being selected or winning.
And no one should be surprised there is record obesity and diabetes amongst children and teens, they don’t leave the house to play.
Sorry for the rant.

 

[Redenbacher]

I did not grow up in NYC but as a child spent every free minute outside playing sports with my friends. Having watched my two sons grow up I saw a radical difference from my life and theirs. One of the biggest differences is we had no screens in our day. No phone, no iPad, no computer, no Nintendo, no play station, etc, where you don’t have to leave the house to play with your friends. Instead of playing baseball on the street or in the park they play video games from their bedroom or basement with others who can be in another part of the world. Often I will walk downstairs and see my son playing video games and seconds after I enter the room he will say to me Tyrese Samuel’s says hello to you dad. And ignorant me looking around the room responds where is Tyrese ?
And my son who has some headset on responds he is on campus at Gainesville now, previously at South OrangeNJ, and lets me know he is playing a game with him , Call of Duty , or something like that. I just shake my head and walk back upstairs.
I feel bad for kids today they didn’t experience what we did. Playing in direct proximity with friends , learning team sports, learning to wait your turn to play, learning to share and the disappointment of not being selected or winning.
And no one should be surprised there is record obesity and diabetes amongst children and teens, they don’t leave the house to play.
Sorry for the rant.

+1000%

 

[mjmaherjr]

I did not grow up in NYC but as a child spent every free minute outside playing sports with my friends. Having watched my two sons grow up I saw a radical difference from my life and theirs. One of the biggest differences is we had no screens in our day. No phone, no iPad, no computer, no Nintendo, no play station, etc, where you don’t have to leave the house to play with your friends. Instead of playing baseball on the street or in the park they play video games from their bedroom or basement with others who can be in another part of the world. Often I will walk downstairs and see my son playing video games and seconds after I enter the room he will say to me Tyrese Samuel’s says hello to you dad. And ignorant me looking around the room responds where is Tyrese ?
And my son who has some headset on responds he is on campus at Gainesville now, previously at South OrangeNJ, and lets me know he is playing a game with him , Call of Duty , or something like that. I just shake my head and walk back upstairs.
I feel bad for kids today they didn’t experience what we did. Playing in direct proximity with friends , learning team sports, learning to wait your turn to play, learning to share and the disappointment of not being selected or winning.
And no one should be surprised there is record obesity and diabetes amongst children and teens, they don’t leave the house to play.
Sorry for the rant.

And another thing. How the F do these kids get money now ? I was mowing lawns shoveling snow going to the local video store ( pre blockbuster ) renting out their 1 copy of whatever movie of the book we were going to have to do a book report on then not returning it and gladly paying late fees and making VCR copies of it and rerenting them to every kid to lazy to read the book ( basically 95% of my class ) These kids nowadays on my block for last 17 years not 1 has ever shoveled snow or mowed a lawn WTF

 

[redmannorth]

And another thing. How the F do these kids get money now ? I was mowing lawns shoveling snow going to the local video store ( pre blockbuster ) renting out their 1 copy of whatever movie of the book we were going to have to do a book report on then not returning it and gladly paying late fees and making VCR copies of it and rerenting them to every kid to lazy to read the book ( basically 95% of my class ) These kids nowadays on my block for last 17 years not 1 has ever shoveled snow or mowed a lawn WTF

Great question Mike and the response is both good and bad IMHO.
Today’s parents and grandparents are typically more successful financially than our parent’s generation. Kids get money from parents and grandparents. In addition in most families today both parents work. I said most. Parents feel guilty not spending enough time with their kids and often give them money to ease their own conscience. Lastly kids today would find it terribly embarrassing to be seen doing manual Labour. They just refuse to do it. My son can spend 12 hours straight in the Nike store selling running shoes to men, women, kids but to be seen gardening for 45 minutes or shovelling snow would be a crime. Perception amongst their peers is very important to today’s kids, probably as a result of social media. Heaven forbid a friend sees them raking the lawn or shovelling snow and puts it on social media. That would be devastating for them. Problems we never had.