Harvard, Sat., Nov. 30, 5p, Peacock

Marillac2 said:
If players have a problem with getting benched with 2 fouls or a quick 3rd foul in the second half, don't foul.
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Many times they don't, but a foul is called anyway.

The only way to ensure not to foul is don't play any defense, and we know Rick won't tolerate that.
 
hardytime said:
I don’t buy that for a second. This guy went to the mid major level right before us and won right away. Granted he took over a good mid major program because of Cluess but we know he was going to win regardless. His backcourt on that team became all league caliber high major players, because of his acumen and talent development, and his center has become a good high major big.

He also has ample professional experience where the players are by and large more challenging.

He is sending a message that he thinks need to be sent for the best interest of the team long term.

Is he handling it right? I don’t know. But any betting man would put him and his resume ahead of my Birds Eye message board view.
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Alas, common sense rears its head! Thank you! Another fact. If Smith does not buy in, any chance he has of playing overseas is over. And I am sure his agent told him that. Pitino brands him as a bad citizen, and he is relegated to looking for a 9 to 5 job.
 
The negativity on this board is amazing. We're 6 and 2. The best case predictions were that we'd be 7-1 at this point, the one expected loss being to Baylor, who we almost beat. It's the coach's fault, a player's fault. It's got to be someone's fault that we are exactly where most of us predicted we'd be at this point in the season. I'm really glad that I can watch the games live now because honestly, it's getting annoying in here. I was really looking forward to sharing a successful season with you all and I know most of you are capable of actually enjoying being a Johnnies fan, but I think a lot of you have forgotten how. I personally will login less often and I know I don't contribute much beyond complaining about negativity, so this is not my self-absorbed way of punishing the doomsayers and trolls. You have the right to share your obsessive negativity here, but I'd rather read Rumble in the Garden.
 
Joedib said:
Alas, common sense rears its head! Thank you! Another fact. If Smith does not buy in, any chance he has of playing overseas is over. And I am sure his agent told him that. Pitino brands him as a bad citizen, and he is relegated to looking for a 9 to 5 job.
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Any player good enough to start on the Big East level has a job available somewhere in professional basketball. CRP doesn’t hold so much sway over the world of basketball where him calling Smith a ‘bad citizen’ would prevent him from getting a job. The same as the NCAA and FBI calling pitino a bad citizen didn’t prevent him from getting a job in basketball.

It would be great if everyone bought in immediately, but the coaches actions also have to make sense. There is a fine line between Bill Self and Matt Doherty.
 
RedStormRising said:
Any player good enough to start on the Big East level has a job available somewhere in professional basketball. CRP doesn’t hold so much sway over the world of basketball where him calling Smith a ‘bad citizen’ would prevent him from getting a job. The same as the NCAA and FBI calling pitino a bad citizen didn’t prevent him from getting a job in basketball.

It would be great if everyone bought in immediately, but the coaches actions also have to make sense. There is a fine line between Bill Self and Matt Doherty.
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The comparison falls flat. A great coach with a shady track record will always get another job. Look around at the current NCAA head coaches.

But when a HOF coach brands a player as a bad actor, it’s over. The player may get a shot in a Cameroon or some obscure Chinese province but his overseas career is basically over before it starts. The number and quality of opportunities will be greatly impacted, at the very least. Every agent knows this. There are only two spots on every foreign team open to US players. Do the math.

But I think this is all academic. I like Smith. And I think he returns with passion and commitment.

Coaches decisions don’t have to make sense to players or fans. A player can’t rebel in the middle of a game. It’s a distraction and destructive. He sits down. His agent later speaks to staff. The player asks for a meeting with coach. He acts maturely within team structure. I don’t think we see Smith making this mistake again.
 
Bangkok Johnny said:
The negativity on this board is amazing. We're 6 and 2. The best case predictions were that we'd be 7-1 at this point, the one expected loss being to Baylor, who we almost beat. It's the coach's fault, a player's fault. It's got to be someone's fault that we are exactly where most of us predicted we'd be at this point in the season. I'm really glad that I can watch the games live now because honestly, it's getting annoying in here. I was really looking forward to sharing a successful season with you all and I know most of you are capable of actually enjoying being a Johnnies fan, but I think a lot of you have forgotten how. I personally will login less often and I know I don't contribute much beyond complaining about negativity, so this is not my self-absorbed way of punishing the doomsayers and trolls. You have the right to share your obsessive negativity here, but I'd rather read Rumble in the Garden.
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I hear you but I also think it’s fair to say you’re ignoring some context that would lead to fans to being bummed out at this point in the season.

We have a long way to go here and I still have very high hopes for this season. Think we have a good team that will get us to the dance.

But the way we lost the Baylor and Georgia games were brutal. The Harvard game was frustrating at times despite the win. And the Smith thing, to me, seems to be impacting the teams morale. But I could just be reading into body language a little too much. Even guys like Simeon Wilcher who always plays/celebrates on the bench with a visible joy/passion, seems to be frustrated.

Maybe everyone’s feeling the weight of having a season with big expectations. Players and fans. The vibes have been shaky of late, here’s to hoping we smack around KState and get on the right track
 
dk423 said:
I think we're feeling the weight of being a failure of a program for 25 years, who has a coach that has a very short expiration date. In a lot of ways, feels like a last chance of relevance.
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I’ll add my fervent hope was to see Rick make some real noise in the “Dance” a few times to restore a healthy degree of relevance and make the job more attractive to possible successors when RP retires. In that equation it is crazy to assume Pitino Jr. or Mas would be the best we could do.

I was frustrated with the blown opportunity games w Baylor and Georgia, because I saw a lane opening up for great success this year. There is certainly still an opportunity to achieve that if we finish off Kansas State and the lesser OOC squads. Then show some road capability in three of first BE games while holding serve on the other two. Going 4 & 1 in first BE games would certainly make the team, staff & fans more confident and set the course for Dance bid and more importantly, success there. Go Johnnies!
 
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paultzman said:
I’ll add my fervent hope was to see Rick make some real noise in the “Dance” a few times to restore a healthy degree of relevance and make the job more attractive to possible successors when RP retires. In that equation it is crazy to assume Pitino Jr. or Mas would be the best we could do.

I was frustrated with the blown opportunity games w Baylor and Georgia, because I saw a lane opening up for great success this year. There is certainly still an opportunity to achieve that if we finish off Kansas State and the lesser OOC squads. Then show some road capability in three of first BE games while holding serve on the other two. Going 4 & 1 in first BE games would certainly make the team, staff & fans more confident and set the course for Dance bid and more importantly, success there. Go Johnnies!
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I think some of frustration is that the things we were worried about going into the season are still there. Three point shooting, foul shooting and sloppy ball handling are all recipes for letting lesser teams steal games from us and not really a great recipe for making noise in March.
Again for me get me there without being in play in and I consider it a success.
 
lawmanfan said:
The disconnect between staff and players was very evident all night. Pitino says the players decided to bench Smith but my eyes (and admittedly I have always started from the base assumption of "don't believe anything Pitino says") say it was his decision and that the players were not happy about it.
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I've never heard of teammates disciplining one of their own. Is this a first?
 
Larry Wright said:
I think some of frustration is that the things we were worried about going into the season are still there. Three point shooting, foul shooting and sloppy ball handling are all recipes for letting lesser teams steal games from us and not really a great recipe for making noise in March.
Again for me get me there without being in play in and I consider it a success.
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Agree on those maladies & hopefully corrected, but yes concerning.
 
BrookJersey Redmen said:
I've never heard of teammates disciplining one of their own. Is this a first?
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Not at all, but it is safe to say, when done, it is kept in house, in the locker room. One of the reasons that I agree with lawmanfan that it is Pitino all the way, not the players. But that is an opinion, no knowledge. Regardless, the Smith situation was handled very poorly IMO.
This is also largely an opinion but it is very strange to me that before the Baylor game, Pitino publicly declared this was a game for athletes, going as far as mentioning Glover might see action because of that assessment, yet in-game Pitino chose to “bench” his best athlete. His best athletic defender by far capable of confronting Roach or whoever would push to get off the last shot, yet no substitution, which in my opinion was an absolute no brainer.
Then in the Georgia game, after benching Smith again, he declared it was to get more shooting in the game, when Smith is clearly a better shooter than at least one player left on the court, and much more capable of creating his own shot against that caliber of competition.
Finally, I also agree with lawmanfan’s comment of the “disconnect” he observed against Harvard, I pm’d Paultzman the same prior to lawmanfan’s post but also included that I observed the same several times between players. Body language can be a very tough read but I did not like the Johnnie’s at all Saturday. Hopefully it was one of those days but bears watching IMO.
 
logen said:
Not at all, but it is safe to say, when done, it is kept in house, in the locker room. One of the reasons that I agree with lawmanfan that it is Pitino all the way, not the players. But that is an opinion, no knowledge. Regardless, the Smith situation was handled very poorly IMO.
This is also largely an opinion but it is very strange to me that before the Baylor game, Pitino publicly declared this was a game for athletes, going as far as mentioning Glover might see action because of that assessment, yet in-game Pitino chose to “bench” his best athlete. His best athletic defender by far capable of confronting Roach or whoever would push to get off the last shot, yet no substitution, which in my opinion was an absolute no brainer.
Then in the Georgia game, after benching Smith again, he declared it was to get more shooting in the game, when Smith is clearly a better shooter than at least one player left on the court, and much more capable of creating his own shot against that caliber of competition.
Finally, I also agree with lawmanfan’s comment of the “disconnect” he observed against Harvard, I pm’d Paultzman the same prior to lawmanfan’s post but also included that I observed the same several times between players. Body language can be a very tough read but I did not like the Johnnie’s at all Saturday. Hopefully it was one of those days but bears watching IMO.
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Smith thing is very odd. Yes turnover prone but plays at a high speed whereas Richmond is turnover prone while moving at a slow speed. Also Smith is a hustler where Richmond takes a more cautious approach to defense and loose balls.
Finally Smith is not a good outside shooter but he at least is a threat out there.

Obviously none of us are at practice or on bench but Smith certainly aesthetically more pleasing than Richmond and would seem less likely to be in Pitino dog house.
 
logen said:
He doesn’t remotely limit the offense, first, he moves without the ball and properly and quickly keeps the ball moving and second, please tell me the game where a team didn’t cover him, leaving him wide open because they were playing 5 in 4, never happened.
Again it is a team game and players can seriously contribute in ways that do not show in a box score.
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I agree re the team game comment, but most of his 3s are pretty wide open, and he is not consistent (or worse) in hitting them.
 
redmanwest said:
I agree re the team game comment, but most of his 3s are pretty wide open, and he is not consistent (or worse) in hitting them.
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I disagree they are wide open, if anything he is rushing them because a defender is closing out, but ok. I never said he was a star, I said he was a solid contributor. I answered people who said he should be benched because he contributes nothing, which I think is utter nonsense.
Richmond is expected and needed to score points and in twice the minutes is averaging 3.3 more points a game while Dunlap is shooting a higher % in all three categories, overall, 3 point, and foul shots. In fact, other than assists, Dunlap’s #’s extrapolate out very favorably to Richmond’s; should he be benched? Obviously not, but you and others have a notion in your head, Dunlap needs to be a knock down 3 point shooter or bench and as I said that is nonsense IMO, he is a good, winning player.
And, oh by the way, other than Ayo’s and Lefty’s very small sample sizes, Dunlap leads the team in 3 point % at 38.5% which in anybody’s book is not deadeye but pretty darn good.
 
logen said:
I disagree they are wide open, if anything he is rushing them because a defender is closing out, but ok. I never said he was a star, I said he was a solid contributor. I answered people who said he should be benched because he contributes nothing, which I think is utter nonsense.
Richmond is expected and needed to score points and in twice the minutes is averaging 3.3 more points a game while Dunlap is shooting a higher % in all three categories, overall, 3 point, and foul shots. In fact, other than assists, Dunlap’s #’s extrapolate out very favorably to Richmond’s; should he be benched? Obviously not, but you and others have a notion in your head, Dunlap needs to be a knock down 3 point shooter or bench and as I said that is nonsense IMO, he is a good, winning player.
And, oh by the way, other than Ayo’s and Lefty’s very small sample sizes, Dunlap leads the team in 3 point % at 38.5% which in anybody’s book is not deadeye but pretty darn good.
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I like Brady and his energy and heady play. He knows how to play, find open guys dnd has a nose for the ball. He’s plagued by a reputation that he hasn’t (yet) realized. I do believe he has a role. But he would be much more key if he could knock down a higher percentage. That’s my take. I feel that he’s rushed shots that were for the most part uncontested or barely contested in many instances. But we can agree to disagree on that.
 
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