Former staff debate (from fall visit thread)

A

Alex9045

Well-known member
[quote="Logen" post=357972][quote="Rob" post=357970]Last time was early Lavin. Chiles was the horse, Rico was involved and Lavin was great at building relationships quickly and seemingly always in touch with tons of both top and attainable prospects. Dunlap wasn't, of course, but with Lavin bringing his A game we could get away with leaving Dunlap in the lab to run practices, game plans, etc.[/quote]

This staff has done more real recruiting in 5 months than Lavin or Mullin and their staffs did in 7-8 years.[/quote]

Lavin pulled in a top 3 class his first year. Mullin and Co. were also recruiting very aggressively the first few months they were hired (Rawle Alkins, Thon Maker, Heron as a HS Senior). Obviously we know how both regimes turned out. Let's stop trying to create a false narrative and give our current staff time before we start giving them all the accolades in the world. I am excited too but CMA is doing what every other D1 Coach does their first few months on the job.
 
[quote="alexander salem" post=357987][quote="Logen" post=357972][quote="Rob" post=357970]Last time was early Lavin. Chiles was the horse, Rico was involved and Lavin was great at building relationships quickly and seemingly always in touch with tons of both top and attainable prospects. Dunlap wasn't, of course, but with Lavin bringing his A game we could get away with leaving Dunlap in the lab to run practices, game plans, etc.[/quote]

This staff has done more real recruiting in 5 months than Lavin or Mullin and their staffs did in 7-8 years.[/quote]

Lavin pulled in a top 3 class his first year. Mullin and Co. were also recruiting very aggressively the first few months they were hired (Rawle Alkins, Thon Maker, Heron as a HS Senior). Obviously we know how both regimes turned out. Let's stop trying to create a false narrative and give our current staff time before we start giving them all the accolades in the world. I am excited too but CMA is doing what every other D1 Coach does their first few months on the job.[/quote]

Everyone knows I was a Lavin guy and he pulled 7 of the 9 players before ever playing a game. While that seemed good at the start didn't turn out that way. Likely could have gone for less risky players and some more doubles instead of home runs. And remember out of the 9, there were 3 who never made it to campus when they were supposed to. And another left within a month.
 
8 pages on this thread with an active staff hot on the recruiting trail, things are certainly optimistic. Love to see this and hope we land these boys.
 
[quote="alexander salem" post=357987][quote="Logen" post=357972][quote="Rob" post=357970]Last time was early Lavin. Chiles was the horse, Rico was involved and Lavin was great at building relationships quickly and seemingly always in touch with tons of both top and attainable prospects. Dunlap wasn't, of course, but with Lavin bringing his A game we could get away with leaving Dunlap in the lab to run practices, game plans, etc.[/quote]

This staff has done more real recruiting in 5 months than Lavin or Mullin and their staffs did in 7-8 years.[/quote]

Lavin pulled in a top 3 class his first year. Mullin and Co. were also recruiting very aggressively the first few months they were hired (Rawle Alkins, Thon Maker, Heron as a HS Senior). Obviously we know how both regimes turned out. Let's stop trying to create a false narrative and give our current staff time before we start giving them all the accolades in the world. I am excited too but CMA is doing what every other D1 Coach does their first few months on the job.[/quote]

Van Macon and Steve Demeo have proven sound (and borderline impressive when considering the resources they have had to work with at their prior stops) recruiting resumes and neither have ever worked for coaches that year in and year out are big winners so it makes their accomplishments even more impressive in my eyes.

So I don't see the false narrative you say some posters are trying to create.
 
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[quote="billthetruth" post=357998][quote="alexander salem" post=357987][quote="Logen" post=357972][quote="Rob" post=357970]Last time was early Lavin. Chiles was the horse, Rico was involved and Lavin was great at building relationships quickly and seemingly always in touch with tons of both top and attainable prospects. Dunlap wasn't, of course, but with Lavin bringing his A game we could get away with leaving Dunlap in the lab to run practices, game plans, etc.[/quote]

This staff has done more real recruiting in 5 months than Lavin or Mullin and their staffs did in 7-8 years.[/quote]

Lavin pulled in a top 3 class his first year. Mullin and Co. were also recruiting very aggressively the first few months they were hired (Rawle Alkins, Thon Maker, Heron as a HS Senior). Obviously we know how both regimes turned out. Let's stop trying to create a false narrative and give our current staff time before we start giving them all the accolades in the world. I am excited too but CMA is doing what every other D1 Coach does their first few months on the job.[/quote]

Van Macon and Steve Demeo have proven sound (and borderline impressive when considering the resources they have had to work with at their prior stops) recruiting resumes and neither have ever worked for coaches that year in and year out are big winners so it makes their accomplishments even more impressive in my eyes.

So I don't see the false narrative you say some posters are trying to create.[/quote]

For perspective, Mike Dunlap and Barry "Slice" Rohrssen were big name guys too before SJU. Everyone who is saying that our previous two coaching staffs didn't go all out on recruiting their first months on the job, that is the false narrative.

I am optimistic and hopeful that things will be different this time. I'm just saying that this isn't anything new. If CMA and staff are still out recruiting this heavy a couple of seasons in, then I'll know for sure that things are completely different for the better. We all want what's best for SJU and its basketball program.
 
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[quote="alexander salem" post=357987][quote="Logen" post=357972][quote="Rob" post=357970]Last time was early Lavin. Chiles was the horse, Rico was involved and Lavin was great at building relationships quickly and seemingly always in touch with tons of both top and attainable prospects. Dunlap wasn't, of course, but with Lavin bringing his A game we could get away with leaving Dunlap in the lab to run practices, game plans, etc.[/quote]

This staff has done more real recruiting in 5 months than Lavin or Mullin and their staffs did in 7-8 years.[/quote]

Lavin pulled in a top 3 class his first year. Mullin and Co. were also recruiting very aggressively the first few months they were hired (Rawle Alkins, Thon Maker, Heron as a HS Senior). Obviously we know how both regimes turned out. Let's stop trying to create a false narrative and give our current staff time before we start giving them all the accolades in the world. I am excited too but CMA is doing what every other D1 Coach does their first few months on the job.[/quote]

You know not of what you speak......no false narrative; neither Lavin nor Mullin had any recruiting strategy; never mind the implementation of one. Maybe for different reasons, neither laid the groundwork for recruiting sustainment and growth, hence the program under both went nowhere.
Anderson and team are out working their butts off laying that foundation, and yes it is what every D1 coach does and Anderson is doing it because he is a pro, Lavin and Mullin did not because they weren't. Maybe each or both had legitimate reasons but neither did "what every other D1 Coach does" and it showed.
 
They did pick up a few $$$ mill I do not dwell on the past coaches seems like we did good with Anderson All he has to do now is produce
 
[quote="Logen" post=358000][quote="alexander salem" post=357987][quote="Logen" post=357972][quote="Rob" post=357970]Last time was early Lavin. Chiles was the horse, Rico was involved and Lavin was great at building relationships quickly and seemingly always in touch with tons of both top and attainable prospects. Dunlap wasn't, of course, but with Lavin bringing his A game we could get away with leaving Dunlap in the lab to run practices, game plans, etc.[/quote]

This staff has done more real recruiting in 5 months than Lavin or Mullin and their staffs did in 7-8 years.[/quote]

Lavin pulled in a top 3 class his first year. Mullin and Co. were also recruiting very aggressively the first few months they were hired (Rawle Alkins, Thon Maker, Heron as a HS Senior). Obviously we know how both regimes turned out. Let's stop trying to create a false narrative and give our current staff time before we start giving them all the accolades in the world. I am excited too but CMA is doing what every other D1 Coach does their first few months on the job.[/quote]

You know not of what you speak......no false narrative; neither Lavin nor Mullin had any recruiting strategy; never mind the implementation of one. Maybe for different reasons, neither laid the groundwork for recruiting sustainment and growth, hence the program under both went nowhere.
Anderson and team are out working their butts off laying that foundation, and yes it is what every D1 coach does and Anderson is doing it because he is a pro, Lavin and Mullin did not because they weren't. Maybe each or both had legitimate reasons but neither did "what every other D1 Coach does" and it showed.[/quote]

Hindsight Bias. You're letting the previous staff's years of failure affect what you thought of them when they first got hired.
 
Very different than prior staffs. Anderson has a consistent track record. Guys like Demeo, Van Macon and Cleveland are known to be hustlers on the recruiting trail. There isn’t any false narrative here. Norm and Fran both hustled. Jarvis, lavin, Mullin did not. Why compounded those issues were that several of our staffs hired a multitude of lazy assistants too, with one recruiter on the road for most of em.
 
[quote="alexander salem" post=358007][quote="Logen" post=358000][quote="alexander salem" post=357987][quote="Logen" post=357972][quote="Rob" post=357970]Last time was early Lavin. Chiles was the horse, Rico was involved and Lavin was great at building relationships quickly and seemingly always in touch with tons of both top and attainable prospects. Dunlap wasn't, of course, but with Lavin bringing his A game we could get away with leaving Dunlap in the lab to run practices, game plans, etc.[/quote]

This staff has done more real recruiting in 5 months than Lavin or Mullin and their staffs did in 7-8 years.[/quote]

Lavin pulled in a top 3 class his first year. Mullin and Co. were also recruiting very aggressively the first few months they were hired (Rawle Alkins, Thon Maker, Heron as a HS Senior). Obviously we know how both regimes turned out. Let's stop trying to create a false narrative and give our current staff time before we start giving them all the accolades in the world. I am excited too but CMA is doing what every other D1 Coach does their first few months on the job.[/quote]

You know not of what you speak......no false narrative; neither Lavin nor Mullin had any recruiting strategy; never mind the implementation of one. Maybe for different reasons, neither laid the groundwork for recruiting sustainment and growth, hence the program under both went nowhere.
Anderson and team are out working their butts off laying that foundation, and yes it is what every D1 coach does and Anderson is doing it because he is a pro, Lavin and Mullin did not because they weren't. Maybe each or both had legitimate reasons but neither did "what every other D1 Coach does" and it showed.[/quote]

Hindsight Bias. You're letting the previous staff's years of failure affect what you thought of them when they first got hired.[/quote]

Huh?? Of course it is hindsight; how else do you judge someone's performance until after they have performed? I never read a concert review before the music stopped. For the record, I hated the Lavin hire and thought Mullin would eventually be an off the charts terrific coach when he was hired. Obviously he did not even begin to apply his legendary work ethic during his stay here. Just curious, so your point is no one should form an opinion different than the opinion they had before something starts, in this case a coaching tenure? It must be nice to be clairvoyant.
 
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[quote="Logen" post=358015][quote="alexander salem" post=358007][quote="Logen" post=358000][quote="alexander salem" post=357987][quote="Logen" post=357972][quote="Rob" post=357970]Last time was early Lavin. Chiles was the horse, Rico was involved and Lavin was great at building relationships quickly and seemingly always in touch with tons of both top and attainable prospects. Dunlap wasn't, of course, but with Lavin bringing his A game we could get away with leaving Dunlap in the lab to run practices, game plans, etc.[/quote]

This staff has done more real recruiting in 5 months than Lavin or Mullin and their staffs did in 7-8 years.[/quote]

Lavin pulled in a top 3 class his first year. Mullin and Co. were also recruiting very aggressively the first few months they were hired (Rawle Alkins, Thon Maker, Heron as a HS Senior). Obviously we know how both regimes turned out. Let's stop trying to create a false narrative and give our current staff time before we start giving them all the accolades in the world. I am excited too but CMA is doing what every other D1 Coach does their first few months on the job.[/quote]

You know not of what you speak......no false narrative; neither Lavin nor Mullin had any recruiting strategy; never mind the implementation of one. Maybe for different reasons, neither laid the groundwork for recruiting sustainment and growth, hence the program under both went nowhere.
Anderson and team are out working their butts off laying that foundation, and yes it is what every D1 coach does and Anderson is doing it because he is a pro, Lavin and Mullin did not because they weren't. Maybe each or both had legitimate reasons but neither did "what every other D1 Coach does" and it showed.[/quote]

Hindsight Bias. You're letting the previous staff's years of failure affect what you thought of them when they first got hired.[/quote]

Huh?? Of course it is hindsight; how else do you judge someone's performance until after they have performed? I never read a concert review before the music stopped. For the record, I hated the Lavin hire and thought Mullin would eventually be an off the charts terrific coach when he was hired. Obviously he did not even begin to apply his legendary work ethic during his stay here. Just curious, so your point is no one should form an opinion different than the opinion they had before something starts, in this case a coaching tenure? It must be nice to be clairvoyant.[/quote]

I think his point is that for the first 5-6 months Mullin, and definitely Lavin, we’re busting their ass on the recruiting trail. It didn’t last. I have no reason to believe it won’t last with Anderson but I believe Alex is just suggesting to wait to see how our coaches work ethic is 3-4 years from now.
 
Given Coach Anderson's track record over his 17 years as a head coach, I am not surprised at the work being put in and would be surprised if that changes. I think what we will need to wait 3-4 years to see the results of the work.
 
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[quote="Amaseinyourface" post=358018]
I think his point is that for the first 5-6 months Mullin, and definitely Lavin, we’re busting their ass on the recruiting trail. It didn’t last. I have no reason to believe it won’t last with Anderson but I believe Alex is just suggesting to wait to see how our coaches work ethic is 3-4 years from now.[/quote]

That's exactly how I read it initially as well. It wasn't hard to comprehend what he was stating. He's not exaggerating when it came to Mullin and certainly Lavin when they came aboard. Lavin and his staff (particularly him and Chiles) not only killed it on the road, but by also landing their targets.

I'm definitely enjoying what Anderson and his staff are doing out on the road and putting us into position to land solid talent. But I also understand what Alexander is saying in regards to seeing this staff replicatong the same work ethic wthin another three to four years when it comes to grinding on this level.

There were other things or issues that ended up sidetracking both Lavin and Mullin (I'm not gonna rehash 'em) which lead to their downfalls. Any unforeseen Issues notwithstanding, then I believe this staff will keep up their current pace. Just my opinion.
 
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[quote="MJDinkins" post=358020][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=358018]
I think his point is that for the first 5-6 months Mullin, and definitely Lavin, we’re busting their ass on the recruiting trail. It didn’t last. I have no reason to believe it won’t last with Anderson but I believe Alex is just suggesting to wait to see how our coaches work ethic is 3-4 years from now.[/quote]

That's exactly how I read it initially as well. It wasn't hard to comprehend what he was stating. He's not exaggerating when it came to Mullin and certainly Lavin when they came aboard. Lavin and his staff (particularly him and Chiles) not only killed it on the road, but by also landing their targets.

I'm definitely enjoying what Anderson and his staff are doing out on the road and putting us into position to land solid talent. But I also understand what Alexander is saying in regards to seeing this staff replicatong the same work ethic wthin another three to four years when it comes to grinding on this level.

There were other things or issues that ended up sidetracking both Lavin and Mullin (I'm not gonna rehash 'em) which lead to their downfalls. Any unforeseen Issues notwithstanding, then I believe this staff will keep up their current pace. Just my opinion.[/quote]

Thank you both for understanding the point I'm trying to make. You're exactly right. I also believe the staff will keep up this momentum, especially if we land guys and start to win on the court.
 
[quote="Amaseinyourface" post=358018][quote="Logen" post=358015][quote="alexander salem" post=358007][quote="Logen" post=358000][quote="alexander salem" post=357987][quote="Logen" post=357972][quote="Rob" post=357970]Last time was early Lavin. Chiles was the horse, Rico was involved and Lavin was great at building relationships quickly and seemingly always in touch with tons of both top and attainable prospects. Dunlap wasn't, of course, but with Lavin bringing his A game we could get away with leaving Dunlap in the lab to run practices, game plans, etc.[/quote]

This staff has done more real recruiting in 5 months than Lavin or Mullin and their staffs did in 7-8 years.[/quote]

Lavin pulled in a top 3 class his first year. Mullin and Co. were also recruiting very aggressively the first few months they were hired (Rawle Alkins, Thon Maker, Heron as a HS Senior). Obviously we know how both regimes turned out. Let's stop trying to create a false narrative and give our current staff time before we start giving them all the accolades in the world. I am excited too but CMA is doing what every other D1 Coach does their first few months on the job.[/quote]

You know not of what you speak......no false narrative; neither Lavin nor Mullin had any recruiting strategy; never mind the implementation of one. Maybe for different reasons, neither laid the groundwork for recruiting sustainment and growth, hence the program under both went nowhere.
Anderson and team are out working their butts off laying that foundation, and yes it is what every D1 coach does and Anderson is doing it because he is a pro, Lavin and Mullin did not because they weren't. Maybe each or both had legitimate reasons but neither did "what every other D1 Coach does" and it showed.[/quote]

Hindsight Bias. You're letting the previous staff's years of failure affect what you thought of them when they first got hired.[/quote]

Huh?? Of course it is hindsight; how else do you judge someone's performance until after they have performed? I never read a concert review before the music stopped. For the record, I hated the Lavin hire and thought Mullin would eventually be an off the charts terrific coach when he was hired. Obviously he did not even begin to apply his legendary work ethic during his stay here. Just curious, so your point is no one should form an opinion different than the opinion they had before something starts, in this case a coaching tenure? It must be nice to be clairvoyant.[/quote]

I think his point is that for the first 5-6 months Mullin, and definitely Lavin, we’re busting their ass on the recruiting trail. It didn’t last. I have no reason to believe it won’t last with Anderson but I believe Alex is just suggesting to wait to see how our coaches work ethic is 3-4 years from now.[/quote]

His cracks about false narratives and hindsight bias is not making a legitimate point to me, and it is me he was addressing. MY point is that Anderson and company have not just "busted their butts" in the first 5 months for this year and 2020 but they are also actively and personally laying the groundwork for recruiting 2-4 years from now, something Lavin nor Mullin never did in their cumulative 7-8 years. NEVER....Anderson is a pro with a plan being implemented from jump street, Feel free to disagree but I know what I saw and I know what I see.
 
[quote="alexander salem" post=358021][quote="MJDinkins" post=358020][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=358018]
I think his point is that for the first 5-6 months Mullin, and definitely Lavin, we’re busting their ass on the recruiting trail. It didn’t last. I have no reason to believe it won’t last with Anderson but I believe Alex is just suggesting to wait to see how our coaches work ethic is 3-4 years from now.[/quote]

That's exactly how I read it initially as well. It wasn't hard to comprehend what he was stating. He's not exaggerating when it came to Mullin and certainly Lavin when they came aboard. Lavin and his staff (particularly him and Chiles) not only killed it on the road, but by also landing their targets.

I'm definitely enjoying what Anderson and his staff are doing out on the road and putting us into position to land solid talent. But I also understand what Alexander is saying in regards to seeing this staff replicatong the same work ethic wthin another three to four years when it comes to grinding on this level.

There were other things or issues that ended up sidetracking both Lavin and Mullin (I'm not gonna rehash 'em) which lead to their downfalls. Any unforeseen Issues notwithstanding, then I believe this staff will keep up their current pace. Just my opinion.[/quote]

Thank you both for understanding the point I'm trying to make. You're exactly right. I also believe the staff will keep up this momentum, especially if we land guys and start to win on the court.[/quote]

These clarifications help, but the point is lost on me. Coach Anderson has been doing this for 17 years successfully. He’s doing here what he’s done in the past. No reason to believe you have to wait 3-4 more years to see him do exactly what he’s done in the past to ensure his success.
 
[quote="Logen" post=358022][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=358018][quote="Logen" post=358015][quote="alexander salem" post=358007][quote="Logen" post=358000][quote="alexander salem" post=357987][quote="Logen" post=357972][quote="Rob" post=357970]Last time was early Lavin. Chiles was the horse, Rico was involved and Lavin was great at building relationships quickly and seemingly always in touch with tons of both top and attainable prospects. Dunlap wasn't, of course, but with Lavin bringing his A game we could get away with leaving Dunlap in the lab to run practices, game plans, etc.[/quote]

This staff has done more real recruiting in 5 months than Lavin or Mullin and their staffs did in 7-8 years.[/quote]

Lavin pulled in a top 3 class his first year. Mullin and Co. were also recruiting very aggressively the first few months they were hired (Rawle Alkins, Thon Maker, Heron as a HS Senior). Obviously we know how both regimes turned out. Let's stop trying to create a false narrative and give our current staff time before we start giving them all the accolades in the world. I am excited too but CMA is doing what every other D1 Coach does their first few months on the job.[/quote]

You know not of what you speak......no false narrative; neither Lavin nor Mullin had any recruiting strategy; never mind the implementation of one. Maybe for different reasons, neither laid the groundwork for recruiting sustainment and growth, hence the program under both went nowhere.
Anderson and team are out working their butts off laying that foundation, and yes it is what every D1 coach does and Anderson is doing it because he is a pro, Lavin and Mullin did not because they weren't. Maybe each or both had legitimate reasons but neither did "what every other D1 Coach does" and it showed.[/quote]

Hindsight Bias. You're letting the previous staff's years of failure affect what you thought of them when they first got hired.[/quote]

Huh?? Of course it is hindsight; how else do you judge someone's performance until after they have performed? I never read a concert review before the music stopped. For the record, I hated the Lavin hire and thought Mullin would eventually be an off the charts terrific coach when he was hired. Obviously he did not even begin to apply his legendary work ethic during his stay here. Just curious, so your point is no one should form an opinion different than the opinion they had before something starts, in this case a coaching tenure? It must be nice to be clairvoyant.[/quote]

I think his point is that for the first 5-6 months Mullin, and definitely Lavin, we’re busting their ass on the recruiting trail. It didn’t last. I have no reason to believe it won’t last with Anderson but I believe Alex is just suggesting to wait to see how our coaches work ethic is 3-4 years from now.[/quote]

His cracks about false narratives and hindsight bias is not making a legitimate point to me, and it is me he was addressing. MY point is that Anderson and company have not just "busted their butts" in the first 5 months for this year and 2020 but they are also actively and personally laying the groundwork for recruiting 2-4 years from now, something Lavin nor Mullin never did in their cumulative 7-8 years. NEVER....Anderson is a pro with a plan being implemented from jump street, Feel free to disagree but I know what I saw and I know what I see.[/quote]

Wasn’t attacking you. Now on I’ll remember never to jump into a discussion you’re having on a discussion board.
 
[quote="Jnaw17" post=358023][quote="alexander salem" post=358021][quote="MJDinkins" post=358020][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=358018]
I think his point is that for the first 5-6 months Mullin, and definitely Lavin, we’re busting their ass on the recruiting trail. It didn’t last. I have no reason to believe it won’t last with Anderson but I believe Alex is just suggesting to wait to see how our coaches work ethic is 3-4 years from now.[/quote]

That's exactly how I read it initially as well. It wasn't hard to comprehend what he was stating. He's not exaggerating when it came to Mullin and certainly Lavin when they came aboard. Lavin and his staff (particularly him and Chiles) not only killed it on the road, but by also landing their targets.

I'm definitely enjoying what Anderson and his staff are doing out on the road and putting us into position to land solid talent. But I also understand what Alexander is saying in regards to seeing this staff replicatong the same work ethic wthin another three to four years when it comes to grinding on this level.

There were other things or issues that ended up sidetracking both Lavin and Mullin (I'm not gonna rehash 'em) which lead to their downfalls. Any unforeseen Issues notwithstanding, then I believe this staff will keep up their current pace. Just my opinion.[/quote]

Thank you both for understanding the point I'm trying to make. You're exactly right. I also believe the staff will keep up this momentum, especially if we land guys and start to win on the court.[/quote]

These clarifications help, but the point is lost on me. Coach Anderson has been doing this for 17 years successfully. He’s doing here what he’s done in the past. No reason to believe you have to wait 3-4 more years to see him do exactly what he’s done in the past to ensure his success.[/quote]

One last point, I guess I look on things differently but I believe the only thing you can truly judge a person on is their effort. Coaching is a results oriented profession obviously but whether Anderson has success landing recruits and winning games is largely irrelevant to me on a respect level. I see a man who has come in on short notice, in a location way out of his comfort zone, but with a plan that he is working himself and his team HARD to implement. Does that ensure success? No, it does not. And if he doesn't win we will be looking for another coach long before any of us want to. But if Coach Anderson continues working hard and sticking to his plan, regardless of results, I will continue to respect the man. Lavin and Mullin came in, said all the right things and then both never walked the walk. Almost two decades of sustained success and a very classy start to his tenure screams to me that is not going to happen with Anderson. So if I offend anyone with my opinion about the man, so be it.
 
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