Final Grade

[otis]

Pretty sure it wasn't a cut and dry termination. I believe he just wouldn't accept the terms laid out for an extension, which left no recourse but to give him his buyout cash and let him go.

Had President Bobby G believed that it was in the best interest of St.John's University to extend Lavin and his "hard working staff" then a deal would have been reached.

President Bobby G understands the importance of men's basketball to the St.John's brand and understood that St.John's was not receiving its anticipated return on its investment from Lavin so an alternative strategy was developed.

 

[frank61]

I think Pres. Bobby had received info at the start of school last Sept. and he just filed it and let the season play out, I think if SL did better, they might have kept him, but when the dismal post season showed it's ugly head again, I think he had people put out feelers for Coach M. then when we were slapped around on national TV by SDSU, that sealed the deal and he made his move. This is my take on it. I could be way off, but I don't think so.

 

[monte]

I think Pres. Bobby had received info at the start of school last Sept. and he just filed it and let the season play out, I think if SL did better, they might have kept him, but when the dismal post season showed it's ugly head again, I think he had people put out feelers for Coach M. then when we were slapped around on national TV by SDSU, that sealed the deal and he made his move. This is my take it. I could be way off, but I don't think so.

I think the feelers were out before the dismal post season and the dialogue was happening as the season was winding down. Things happened so quickly after the season ended that I have to assume a deal was in the works for a while. I too could be way off, but that's my theory..

 

[salty dog]

I think Pres. Bobby had received info at the start of school last Sept. and he just filed it and let the season play out, I think if SL did better, they might have kept him, but when the dismal post season showed it's ugly head again, I think he had people put out feelers for Coach M. then when we were slapped around on national TV by SDSU, that sealed the deal and he made his move. This is my take it. I could be way off, but I don't think so.

I think the feelers were out before the dismal post season and the dialogue was happening as the season was winding down. Things happened so quickly after the season ended that I have to assume a deal was in the works for a while. I too could be way off, but that's my theory..

probably at the HOF breakfast where Mullin spoke and could be reached privately one on one.
No mention of Lavin at all at the breakfast which is very mysterious indeed for a current coach.
Mullin could have addressed the possible obligation he felt should things go sour with Lavin

 

[beast of the east]

I am pretty much done looking back. I thought Norm and Lavin both served a purpose. We kept Norm way too long and Lavin a little too long.

I was extremely concerned that we would make a critical mistake by renewing Lavin for another 3-5 years. I think that would have ensured more of the same mediocre performance and frustrating circus show.

Now, we are poised to take it to the next level and I am loving it! Kudos to President Bobby.

Agree with all you said except about keeping Lavin a little to long. I think he was let go at the appropriate time.

Pretty sure it wasn't a cut and dry termination. I believe he just wouldn't accept the terms laid out for an extension, which left no recourse but to give him his buyout cash and let him go.

That is what I thought originally as well, but changed my mind after how Chris's hiring went down. Think he was pushed out while Chris waited in the wings.

I know some of the people involved. Smart business people. I think the jury was out on Lavin all season, but for a while it looked like he had saved himself (at 10-7). I do believe there was at least informal discussions with Mullin indicating his interest should anything happen.

If you really think about it, we didn't have this three game collapse at the end. We tanked the Nova game to get our guys healthy for the post season. SDSU became unwinnable once CO was suspended, and our guys battled hard in that loss. It was really the Providence game that was a black eye, and the only real dog.

You could be right, but with the above, I think that if Lavin was going to stay, he would have had to have lowered his base and collect earnouts. Of course, this is conjecture at this point on both our parts. But it is clear that SJU wasn't enamored with Lavin, and any one with business experience knows that when you offer someone a pay cut, you won't be upset if he walks. In fact, it could have been posturing to get him to walk without a buyout.

 

[fun]

If you really think about it, we didn't have this three game collapse at the end

Between the losses that didn't happen and the ones that were Norm's fault it turns out Lavin was a hell of a coach.

 

[room112]

I am pretty much done looking back. I thought Norm and Lavin both served a purpose. We kept Norm way too long and Lavin a little too long.

I was extremely concerned that we would make a critical mistake by renewing Lavin for another 3-5 years. I think that would have ensured more of the same mediocre performance and frustrating circus show.

Now, we are poised to take it to the next level and I am loving it! Kudos to President Bobby.

Agree with all you said except about keeping Lavin a little to long. I think he was let go at the appropriate time.

Pretty sure it wasn't a cut and dry termination. I believe he just wouldn't accept the terms laid out for an extension, which left no recourse but to give him his buyout cash and let him go.

That is what I thought originally as well, but changed my mind after how Chris's hiring went down. Think he was pushed out while Chris waited in the wings.

I know some of the people involved. Smart business people. I think the jury was out on Lavin all season, but for a while it looked like he had saved himself (at 10-7). I do believe there was at least informal discussions with Mullin indicating his interest should anything happen.

If you really think about it, we didn't have this three game collapse at the end. We tanked the Nova game to get our guys healthy for the post season. SDSU became unwinnable once CO was suspended, and our guys battled hard in that loss. It was really the Providence game that was a black eye, and the only real dog.

You could be right, but with the above, I think that if Lavin was going to stay, he would have had to have lowered his base and collect earnouts. Of course, this is conjecture at this point on both our parts. But it is clear that SJU wasn't enamored with Lavin, and any one with business experience knows that when you offer someone a pay cut, you won't be upset if he walks. In fact, it could have been posturing to get him to walk without a buyout.

I think what really did him in, and the President recognized, was that he was not setting up the program for future sustained success. We were going into his 6th year with essentially a fresh start, and why? Lazy recruiting? It certainly appeared to those following these things closely that he wasn't putting in the effort needed to.

 

[Optimistic25]

I'm not here to make a case that Javis was a great St Johns coach, as he did not recruit well and the behavior off the court of the players was an issue……but how anyone can give the man and F is beyond me. He took the team to an elite 8 and won the big east tournament another year.

Many made a big deal of Lavin's poor X's and O's and we are going to give Jarvis an F grade when he won huge games for us?

 

[cpavin]

I am pretty much done looking back. I thought Norm and Lavin both served a purpose. We kept Norm way too long and Lavin a little too long.

I was extremely concerned that we would make a critical mistake by renewing Lavin for another 3-5 years. I think that would have ensured more of the same mediocre performance and frustrating circus show.

Now, we are poised to take it to the next level and I am loving it! Kudos to President Bobby.

Agree with all you said except about keeping Lavin a little to long. I think he was let go at the appropriate time.

Pretty sure it wasn't a cut and dry termination. I believe he just wouldn't accept the terms laid out for an extension, which left no recourse but to give him his buyout cash and let him go.

That is what I thought originally as well, but changed my mind after how Chris's hiring went down. Think he was pushed out while Chris waited in the wings.

I know some of the people involved. Smart business people. I think the jury was out on Lavin all season, but for a while it looked like he had saved himself (at 10-7). I do believe there was at least informal discussions with Mullin indicating his interest should anything happen.

If you really think about it, we didn't have this three game collapse at the end. We tanked the Nova game to get our guys healthy for the post season. SDSU became unwinnable once CO was suspended, and our guys battled hard in that loss. It was really the Providence game that was a black eye, and the only real dog.

You could be right, but with the above, I think that if Lavin was going to stay, he would have had to have lowered his base and collect earnouts. Of course, this is conjecture at this point on both our parts. But it is clear that SJU wasn't enamored with Lavin, and any one with business experience knows that when you offer someone a pay cut, you won't be upset if he walks. In fact, it could have been posturing to get him to walk without a buyout.

I think what really did him in, and the President recognized, was that he was not setting up the program for future sustained success. We were going into his 6th year with essentially a fresh start, and why? Lazy recruiting? It certainly appeared to those following these things closely that he wasn't putting in the effort needed to.

You can accuse Lavin of poor coaching but he has always been known as a great recruiter. Unfair to say he was a lazy recruiter unless you have access to behind the scenes info. I think the reality of the situation is that its very hard to recruit to SJU these days.

 

[otis]

........how anyone can give the man (Jarvis) an F is beyond me.

43 of Mr. Jarvis' wins at St. John's were reversed by the NCAA because of NCAA violations.

 

[monte]

I am pretty much done looking back. I thought Norm and Lavin both served a purpose. We kept Norm way too long and Lavin a little too long.

I was extremely concerned that we would make a critical mistake by renewing Lavin for another 3-5 years. I think that would have ensured more of the same mediocre performance and frustrating circus show.

Now, we are poised to take it to the next level and I am loving it! Kudos to President Bobby.

Agree with all you said except about keeping Lavin a little to long. I think he was let go at the appropriate time.

Pretty sure it wasn't a cut and dry termination. I believe he just wouldn't accept the terms laid out for an extension, which left no recourse but to give him his buyout cash and let him go.

That is what I thought originally as well, but changed my mind after how Chris's hiring went down. Think he was pushed out while Chris waited in the wings.

I know some of the people involved. Smart business people. I think the jury was out on Lavin all season, but for a while it looked like he had saved himself (at 10-7). I do believe there was at least informal discussions with Mullin indicating his interest should anything happen.

If you really think about it, we didn't have this three game collapse at the end. We tanked the Nova game to get our guys healthy for the post season. SDSU became unwinnable once CO was suspended, and our guys battled hard in that loss. It was really the Providence game that was a black eye, and the only real dog.

You could be right, but with the above, I think that if Lavin was going to stay, he would have had to have lowered his base and collect earnouts. Of course, this is conjecture at this point on both our parts. But it is clear that SJU wasn't enamored with Lavin, and any one with business experience knows that when you offer someone a pay cut, you won't be upset if he walks. In fact, it could have been posturing to get him to walk without a buyout.

I think what really did him in, and the President recognized, was that he was not setting up the program for future sustained success. We were going into his 6th year with essentially a fresh start, and why? Lazy recruiting? It certainly appeared to those following these things closely that he wasn't putting in the effort needed to.

You can accuse Lavin of poor coaching but he has always been known as a great recruiter. Unfair to say he was a lazy recruiter unless you have access to behind the scenes info. I think the reality of the situation is that its very hard to recruit to SJU these days.

He didn't need to have access to behind the scenes to know that Lavin was a lazy recruiter, all he needed to do was listen to what multiple high school coaches had to say and look at the results over the past few years. Oh yeah, and watch what Mullin + Co. is doing right now to know what a non-lazy recruiter does. Mullin is already proving that SJU and NYC is not quite as undesirable a destination as some of you have tried to make it out to be.

 

[monte]

I'm not here to make a case that Javis was a great St Johns coach, as he did not recruit well and the behavior off the court of the players was an issue……but how anyone can give the man and F is beyond me. He took the team to an elite 8 and won the big east tournament another year.

Many made a big deal of Lavin's poor X's and O's and we are going to give Jarvis an F grade when he won huge games for us?

Although I didn't read all the posts, I would assume that most of the Fs had everything to do with how he left the program in shambles, and little or nothing to do with his recruiting and game coaching.

 

[Andrew]

With all the excitement around the program, the school needs to start to do a better job marketing. Let's get cool St. John's gear into stores like Moddells and take over the area. Want to see kids representing. Also need to make a push to improve the school's academic reputation.

 

[Section3]

With all the excitement around the program, the school needs to start to do a better job marketing. Let's get cool St. John's gear into stores like Moddells and take over the area. Want to see kids representing. Also need to make a push to improve the school's academic reputation.

Need to start cultivating base of young fans...offer inexpensive tickets to local schools...plenty of sections behind basket that never fill up...need to maintain buzz

 

[monte]

With all the excitement around the program, the school needs to start to do a better job marketing. Let's get cool St. John's gear into stores like Moddells and take over the area. Want to see kids representing. Also need to make a push to improve the school's academic reputation.

Need to start cultivating base of young fans...offer inexpensive tickets to local schools...plenty of sections behind basket that never fill up...need to maintain buzz

Great idea! And especially to local High schools, if you catch my drift.

 

[Optimistic25]

OK but bottom line is when you're comparing him to other St Johns coaches, he needs to get more than an F when he takes the team to the elite 8 and wins big east tournament back when it was loaded.

Yes he left the team in poor shape but you can't take away the fact that he did win big here and the other guys listed did not.