Final Grade

Mahoney- = grade of "C+" ..... recalling Mahoney seems like looking back into anciet history. Mahoney was too laid back to keep the forward momentum which the StJohn's program had.

Fran = grade of "Incomplete" ..... Fran showed most promise of being able to take StJohn's to the top but for stated reasons he did not work out. Fran's termination was a loss for both him and StJohn's.

Jarvis = grade of "F" .... acts during his tenure lead to StJohn's being put on NCAA probation. There is no easy way to spin the fact of NCAA probation to provide Jarvis with a grade higher than "F".

Norm = grade of "C" .... Norm is a good and decent man who "Suits" Harrington never should have hired. Norm lacked the gravitas to right the ship which Jarvis beached..... Norm's chances of success were impaired by the reduced budget which "Home Run" Harrington provided to the men's basketball program, by the stench of the Pittsburgh incident, the cloud of NCAA violations (for acts committed during the Jarvi years), probable NCAA probation which first surfaced in the press during Norm's first recruiting cycle, and the NCAA probation that continued through his 3d year which included loss of scholarships.... Norm was not the right man to turn the StJohn's men's program into a top 25 winner but he played the hand that was dealt him. Roberts did what Harrington asked him to do, [Note: I was a regular critic of Coach Roberts on this site during his final 2 years at StJohn's.]

Lavin = grade of "C+" ..... Lavin was more sizzle than substance. He enjoyed a great first year at StJohn's both on the court and on the recruiting trail. Lavin "swung and missed" on countless recruits during his last 2 recruiting cycles. Those on the New York metro recruiting circuit regularly reported that Lavin and his "hard working staff" were absent from the AAU and high school scene. Recall that Lavin and his hardworking staff reportedly offered Christian Jones a scholarship in June of his senior year without ever having seen him play in person. My questions to the few remaining Lavin defenders is: if Lavin did such a good recruited then why is the StJohn's roster in such shambles? If Lavin did such a good job at StJohn's then when will he get another job at a Power 5 Conference school? Thank you President Bobby G for pulling the plug on Lavin's coaching tenure at StJohn's.
 
I do find it pretty funny that some of the same people who kill Jarvis are practically creaming themselves over getting Slice. BTW I am happy as the next guy over that potential hire, but ummmm.
 
Any person that gets fired from a coaching job deserves an F
The exceptions are Jarvi$ and Norm
They deserve grades of F-
I still think that, if Fran wasn't a nut job, he would have had a great career here
 
Jarvis had a B, but was caught cheating so he gets F.
 
Any person that gets fired from a coaching job deserves an F
The exceptions are Jarvi$ and Norm
They deserve grades of F-
I still think that, if Fran wasn't a nut job, he would have had a great career here

Bob Knight got fired from Indiana.
 
Have been a Redmen fan since 67. By far, Jarvis was the WORST coach they have had since then.Good luck Chris. He is doing something that hasn't been done in years. Bring in the 6-10 or taller players. Keep it up.
 
Reggie Jessie was a Fran recruit and although i believe he wacked some player in the nads, I never considered him a thug.

It was Omar who punched a guy in the nads
 
Reggie Jessie was a Fran recruit and although i believe he wacked some player in the nads, I never considered him a thug.

It was Omar who punched a guy in the nads

They both low-blowed guys: Sheiku Kabba and SirValiant Brown.

It was a nutty season, and I did not have a ball watching it.
 
The first game St. John's game I ever saw featured Malik Sealy and Terry Dehere going head to head in the scoring department. Even though I was 7 or so, I could tell they were by far the best players on the court.

Because of that I didn't live through Coach Louie's prime. I never got the glory days. That''s the background for these grades.

Mahoney - In retrospect remains me of George Blaney, a man you want as an assistant coach. I remember talent and hype and arenas with Dominican flags, but I don't remember a lot of wins. No real scandal though. Big step in the wrong direction after Louie, maybe he was in over his head? C-

Fran - Endlessly ambitious. Seemed to me like he was planning his next move instead of planning ball games. He managed to get run out of town with a team that was treading upward which is a hard thing to do. C

Jarvis - Always rubbed me the wrong way - I got the impression that his career was made by one player (Ewing) and he was too much of a 'players coach'. In retrospect he reminds me of Bobby G. Then he came out with the 'It feels like someone came into my house and raped my daughter' , both callous and classless. One highlight with run to the elite eight, but he will be remembered more for his low lights. The aforementioned comment, drug issues, grady reynolds issues, the Pittsburgh incident, and most inexcusably paying the WORST PLAYER on the team. D-

Kevin Clark - I don't know anything about him, but I remember feeling that when Kyle Cuff lead the team in a victory against GTown for their only big east win that things would one day be better for St John's - P (thanks for trying you pass).

Norm Roberts - Had the thankless job of getting people to think about St John's again. He was not up to the task. He did represent the university much better than Jarvis and Fran and seemed to try. He used to remind me of Louis Orr, but in reality he never had the success Louis Orr did. D+

Lavin - Sue me guys, I like Lavin and think he did a fine job especially when you compare it to what I had seen in my life time. He swung for the fences and missed a lot, but he also had some hits. He always had teams you could root for and seemed like they were just about to crack that glass ceiling. He had a certain style and demeanor that make me like him and I believe that he will land on his feet. B

Mullin - Dream teamer, played for my team the Pacers, STJ's great. I'm already a fan boy. A
 
The Norm argument about how he left a solid group of players and the program in good shape for Lavin is entirely misleading.

I don't believe that many people believe that Norm could have coached that team to the NCAAs. The senior team LAvin inherited actually was weaker than the junior team Norm took to a .500 record overall (losing in conference) because it had their best player Mason Jr. More than likely Norm would have coached the senior team back to the NIT, or just shy of that, too.

What he left Lavin was a ridiculously imbalanced team that was entirely comprised of seniors save for Malik Stith. Stith for his part was so incapable as a D1 player that even as the team imploded after Nurideen Lindsay's walk-off that he still didn't see the light of day and quit himself.

Lavin's work ethic aside, starting with zero players for year 2 hampered him up to the very end. There's some value in putting Lavin's lack of success on Norm, since Norm had 6 seasons to build a roster, yet in year 7 his roster was so imbalanced as to have only one underclassmen (Lavin yr 1). No doubt had Roberts survived to a year 7, my guess would have been a season with perhaps 10 wins overall.

Roberts couldn't coach and couldn't manage a roster. Had Lavin been hired post Jarvis instead of Norm, our program would have been in much better shape.
 
Roberts couldn't coach and couldn't manage a roster. Had Lavin been hired post Jarvis instead of Norm, our program would have been in much better shape.

I have to disagree. If Lavin had been hired after Jarvis and recruited the type of players he did (academic no qualifiers and the freshman [not the senior] DLo, we would be looking forward to our games with MIT and NYU about now after Harrington reacted.
 
I am pretty much done looking back. I thought Norm and Lavin both served a purpose. We kept Norm way too long and Lavin a little too long.

I was extremely concerned that we would make a critical mistake by renewing Lavin for another 3-5 years. I think that would have ensured more of the same mediocre performance and frustrating circus show.

Now, we are poised to take it to the next level and I am loving it! Kudos to President Bobby.
 
There's some value in putting Lavin's lack of success on Norm

Quite. We'll give Lavin credit for taking Norm's players to the NCAA tournament and then we'll blame Norm for Lavin's players going to the NIT. Seems fair.

Other things Norm gets the blame for:

The sinking of the Titanic
Solar Eclipses
The Johnstown Flood
AIDS epidemic
The Chicago Fire
Custer's defeat at Little Big Horn

Tune in next week when we learn how the Norms control the media.
 
There's some value in putting Lavin's lack of success on Norm

Quite. We'll give Lavin credit for taking Norm's players to the NCAA tournament and then we'll blame Norm for Lavin's players going to the NIT. Seems fair.

Other things Norm gets the blame for:

The sinking of the Titanic
Solar Eclipses
The Johnstown Flood
AIDS epidemic
The Chicago Fire
Custer's defeat at Little Big Horn

Tune in next week when we learn how the Norms control the media.

Horrific roster management. Norm could give a damn about tomorrow when he was trying to save his own life.
 
I am pretty much done looking back. I thought Norm and Lavin both served a purpose. We kept Norm way too long and Lavin a little too long.

I was extremely concerned that we would make a critical mistake by renewing Lavin for another 3-5 years. I think that would have ensured more of the same mediocre performance and frustrating circus show.

Now, we are poised to take it to the next level and I am loving it! Kudos to President Bobby.

Agree with all you said except about keeping Lavin a little to long. I think he was let go at the appropriate time.
 
I am pretty much done looking back. I thought Norm and Lavin both served a purpose. We kept Norm way too long and Lavin a little too long.

I was extremely concerned that we would make a critical mistake by renewing Lavin for another 3-5 years. I think that would have ensured more of the same mediocre performance and frustrating circus show.

Now, we are poised to take it to the next level and I am loving it! Kudos to President Bobby.

Agree with all you said except about keeping Lavin a little to long. I think he was let go at the appropriate time.

Pretty sure it wasn't a cut and dry termination. I believe he just wouldn't accept the terms laid out for an extension, which left no recourse but to give him his buyout cash and let him go.
 
There's some value in putting Lavin's lack of success on Norm

Quite. We'll give Lavin credit for taking Norm's players to the NCAA tournament and then we'll blame Norm for Lavin's players going to the NIT. Seems fair.

Other things Norm gets the blame for:

The sinking of the Titanic
Solar Eclipses
The Johnstown Flood
AIDS epidemic
The Chicago Fire
Custer's defeat at Little Big Horn

Tune in next week when we learn how the Norms control the media.


No need to exaggerate , his performance speaks for itself.
 
I am pretty much done looking back. I thought Norm and Lavin both served a purpose. We kept Norm way too long and Lavin a little too long.

I was extremely concerned that we would make a critical mistake by renewing Lavin for another 3-5 years. I think that would have ensured more of the same mediocre performance and frustrating circus show.

Now, we are poised to take it to the next level and I am loving it! Kudos to President Bobby.

Agree with all you said except about keeping Lavin a little to long. I think he was let go at the appropriate time.

Pretty sure it wasn't a cut and dry termination. I believe he just wouldn't accept the terms laid out for an extension, which left no recourse but to give him his buyout cash and let him go.

That is what I thought originally as well, but changed my mind after how Chris's hiring went down. Think he was pushed out while Chris waited in the wings.
 
I am pretty much done looking back. I thought Norm and Lavin both served a purpose. We kept Norm way too long and Lavin a little too long.

I was extremely concerned that we would make a critical mistake by renewing Lavin for another 3-5 years. I think that would have ensured more of the same mediocre performance and frustrating circus show.

Now, we are poised to take it to the next level and I am loving it! Kudos to President Bobby.

Agree with all you said except about keeping Lavin a little to long. I think he was let go at the appropriate time.

Pretty sure it wasn't a cut and dry termination. I believe he just wouldn't accept the terms laid out for an extension, which left no recourse but to give him his buyout cash and let him go.

I think the fix was in for awhile and Lavin wasn't really offered an extension, it was just about negotiating the buyout.

By the way, I've thought about this a lot, and I think Lavin deserves a C. He brought in some key talent and made the product watchable. And he didn't burden us with any penalties or true scandal.
 
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