Final Grade

W

we are sju

Active member
Now that some time has passed and we have a replacement that has been almost universally accepted, I think we can now look back and grade the Lavin era.
I am grading on a curve.
Here are my post Louie coaching grades:

Mahoney-D
One great year with Louie leftovers and best recruiting class in school history

Fran-B-Great recruiter. Got Felipe into Tourney. Evidently very proud of his penis.

Jarvis-B-
Best team post Louie. Left team in shambles which led us to....

Norm-F
If there were a worse grade he would deserve it. I really did believe we would never make the tourney again. Which is why......

Lavin-B
Didn't work out as well as we hoped, but that is the key word, hope. Brought it back. Will always get credit for that from me.
 
You have far over-graded Jarvis, who deserves nothing higher than a D. He is ultimately responsible for this long, cold winter our program has endured. I would actually give Norm a D too since he restored some respectability and recruited the last NCAA team before this one.
 
I think Jarvis deserves 2 grades. A for the good tourney teams and then an F- for the awful collapse.

I'd give Norm a D
 
I think Jarvis deserves 2 grades. A for the good tourney teams and then an F- for the awful collapse.

I'd give Norm a D
Click to expand...

A "D" is a passing grade. He failed for 5 years, ten got an extension, but still failed. F.

Fraschilla gets an incomplete. Two years left him short of accomplishment and respect. Jarvis completed what Fran started but..

While Jarvis did a nice job with what Fran started, he didn't leave anything for the next guy. In fact he left things in such bad shape, he deserved to be expelled, and he was. Another F.

Lavin. Although it wasn't enough, Steve did the best job of taking this train headed for oblivion, and reversed course. Many of us lose long term memory, but a significant number of us were unsure if anyone could reverse the course and demise that Lavin inherited. When we look back on his tenure 10 years from now, we may give him a lot more credit for reversing our fortunes, although in the end he turned it around, but didn't get us back up the mountain to where we belonged. Grade - B

Mahoney tells a story (when loaded up a little) that when he started college his grades initially was horrible, then teachers learned that he was the high scorer on the freshman team he began getting all A's. Too bad college coaching wasn't so easy. After a surprising first year and landing two super blue chips, it was kind of downhill from there. Not as bad as we remember, so I'd give him a C-.
 
Mahoney...F... Had top recruiting class in country and still lost his job.

Fraschilla...F... can't give a guy who was here for two years and embarrassed the program that badly anything but a massive FAIL.

Jarvis...J-... deserves the lowest possible grade. Since the scale is usually A thru F we'll have to create an additional level below F for those who destroy programs with their incompetence and sloth. He was so bad he deserves to have the new grade named for him. J for Jarvi, and the minus because he was pompous douche who deserves it.

Norm...C... In over his head but cleaned up the mess and left a good team for the next guy.

Lavin...B-... Decent effort that lost momentum after year one's great class, Dunlap's defection to the Hornets, and his cancer. Should have been better, but raised the bar over his predecessor.
 
Wow, extremely generous score for JARVIS ( I thought he was a D at best..."left us in shambles" is right! and he warrants a grade that reflects such. And his "controlled freelance" was just giving a title to the lack of discipline we saw under the others.
I think in contrast you were very tough on Norm who I thought was a D plus, just because he brought a measure of decency back and mostly he wasn't Jarvis.

That's what makes for a stock market I guess. Someone is buying what someone else wants to dump.
 
How many wins did we have to forfeit due to Jarvis? Clearly he deserves an "F" and expulsion.
 
You can't upgrade Norm because he followed Jarvis. Jarvis was way more successful than him. Honestly the perception that Jarvis ruined the program and Norm was chugging along trying to clean the mess was ridiculous. He was also left with Hill and Hamilton which was arguably better than what he left Lavin with. Thankfully Lavin realized that Norm's 6th and 7th men were actually his best players.If Norm did a better job, then you would not have to give Lavin credit for bringing respectability back to the program
 
C- for Norm. He was given a program in shambles and was tasked by cleaning it up. We had good characters graduate from his recruiting crop. Jarvis downgrade to a C.
 
There was a time circa the spring of '94 when I envisioned a team of super sophs Lopez, Hamilton and Turner combining with senior role players like Minlend, Lyson, Barrett to cut down the nets.

Then reality happened.
 
You can't upgrade Norm because he followed Jarvis. Jarvis was way more successful than him. Honestly the perception that Jarvis ruined the program and Norm was chugging along trying to clean the mess was ridiculous. He was also left with Hill and Hamilton which was arguably better than what he left Lavin with. Thankfully Lavin realized that Norm's 6th and 7th men were actually his best players.If Norm did a better job, then you would not have to give Lavin credit for bringing respectability back to the program
Click to expand...


Jarvis was so good awful he got fired in DECEMBER of his last year. When is the last time that happened in a major conference? The team he left behind was a shambles and the sanctions that came years later made sure that his predecessor was going to fail. WORST coaching hire EVER.

Norm wasn't very good but he essentially had to start from scratch. While a "C" grade might be generous for him he did leave the program better off than he found it and he didn't do anything to embarrass the university/program the way Jarvis and Fraschilla did.
 
You can't upgrade Norm because he followed Jarvis. Jarvis was way more successful than him. Honestly the perception that Jarvis ruined the program and Norm was chugging along trying to clean the mess was ridiculous. He was also left with Hill and Hamilton which was arguably better than what he left Lavin with. Thankfully Lavin realized that Norm's 6th and 7th men were actually his best players.If Norm did a better job, then you would not have to give Lavin credit for bringing respectability back to the program
Click to expand...


Jarvis was so good awful he got fired in DECEMBER of his last year. When is the last time that happened in a major conference? The team he left behind was a shambles and the sanctions that came years later made sure that his predecessor was going to fail. WORST coaching hire EVER.

Norm wasn't very good but he essentially had to start from scratch. While a "C" grade might be generous for him he did leave the program better off than he found it and he didn't do anything to embarrass the university/program the way Jarvis and Fraschilla did.
Click to expand...

I showed up late to the Maryland game in Norm's second to last season. Dinner at Keen's ran a little late. I walked in and I think they were losing 20-2. Memory is a little hazy but I think they lost 100-42 on ESPN. That was way more embarrassing than anything Jarvis or Fran did IMO.
 
While some may give Jarvis a failing grade, the "F" should go to the then SJU President and the SJU Admin for waiting until December to fire Jarvis. Sure he got lazy and the program was going nowhere, but he had more success than any coach since. If the admin would have let him go after the NIT win, which they should have,then Pittsburgh and the aftermath doesn't happen, and there would not have been a need for Norm. So I give Jarvis a B-, as the scandal happened after he was fired.

Norm was hired to change the program's downward trajectory and image. He changed the image, and recruited a class that eventually went to the dance. He had few non quals that I can recall, and not that much drama. He gets a C+.

Lavin was given big money for himself and a big money staff to build on what Norm did. He had a lot of splash with not enough substance. He stopped working hard, and wasn't much of a teacher or in game coach. I give him a B-, which would have been a C if not for his major health concern.
 
You can't upgrade Norm because he followed Jarvis. Jarvis was way more successful than him. Honestly the perception that Jarvis ruined the program and Norm was chugging along trying to clean the mess was ridiculous. He was also left with Hill and Hamilton which was arguably better than what he left Lavin with. Thankfully Lavin realized that Norm's 6th and 7th men were actually his best players.If Norm did a better job, then you would not have to give Lavin credit for bringing respectability back to the program
Click to expand...


Jarvis was so good awful he got fired in DECEMBER of his last year. When is the last time that happened in a major conference? The team he left behind was a shambles and the sanctions that came years later made sure that his predecessor was going to fail. WORST coaching hire EVER.

Norm wasn't very good but he essentially had to start from scratch. While a "C" grade might be generous for him he did leave the program better off than he found it and he didn't do anything to embarrass the university/program the way Jarvis and Fraschilla did.
Click to expand...

I showed up late to the Maryland game in Norm's second to last season. Dinner at Keen's ran a little late. I walked in and I think they were losing 20-2. Memory is a little hazy but I think they lost 100-42 on ESPN. That was way more embarrassing than anything Jarvis or Fran did IMO.
Click to expand...

Score was 92-60, an embarrassing 32 point loss. How much did you down grade Lavin for his 105-68 37-point loss to Villanova?
 
I think Jarvis deserves 2 grades. A for the good tourney teams and then an F- for the awful collapse.

I'd give Norm a D
Click to expand...

A "D" is a passing grade. He failed for 5 years, ten got an extension, but still failed. F.

Fraschilla gets an incomplete. Two years left him short of accomplishment and respect. Jarvis completed what Fran started but..

While Jarvis did a nice job with what Fran started, he didn't leave anything for the next guy. In fact he left things in such bad shape, he deserved to be expelled, and he was. Another F.

Lavin. Although it wasn't enough, Steve did the best job of taking this train headed for oblivion, and reversed course. Many of us lose long term memory, but a significant number of us were unsure if anyone could reverse the course and demise that Lavin inherited. When we look back on his tenure 10 years from now, we may give him a lot more credit for reversing our fortunes, although in the end he turned it around, but didn't get us back up the mountain to where we belonged. Grade - B

Mahoney tells a story (when loaded up a little) that when he started college his grades initially was horrible, then teachers learned that he was the high scorer on the freshman team he began getting all A's. Too bad college coaching wasn't so easy. After a surprising first year and landing two super blue chips, it was kind of downhill from there. Not as bad as we remember, so I'd give him a C-.
Click to expand...

I actually think Mahoney may have been worse than I remember ;) . As for Norm, I was never a fan and there's no doubt that his in game coaching deserves an F, or even a G. But he was asked to recruit kids during the worst period in the school's history and on a shoe string budget. His hands were also tied with the kind of kids he was allowed to recruit. No he didn't land the blue chip kids, but he did land a fair amount of solid basketball players who all represented the school well. Let me ask you this question Beast, what kind of recruiting success do you think Lavin would have had if had to work with the same budget and constraints that Norm had?
 
all I can say is that I am glad that fun finally changed his avatar. Not sure that I buy him getting religion though.
 
You can't upgrade Norm because he followed Jarvis. Jarvis was way more successful than him. Honestly the perception that Jarvis ruined the program and Norm was chugging along trying to clean the mess was ridiculous. He was also left with Hill and Hamilton which was arguably better than what he left Lavin with. Thankfully Lavin realized that Norm's 6th and 7th men were actually his best players.If Norm did a better job, then you would not have to give Lavin credit for bringing respectability back to the program
Click to expand...


Jarvis was so good awful he got fired in DECEMBER of his last year. When is the last time that happened in a major conference? The team he left behind was a shambles and the sanctions that came years later made sure that his predecessor was going to fail. WORST coaching hire EVER.

Norm wasn't very good but he essentially had to start from scratch. While a "C" grade might be generous for him he did leave the program better off than he found it and he didn't do anything to embarrass the university/program the way Jarvis and Fraschilla did.
Click to expand...

I showed up late to the Maryland game in Norm's second to last season. Dinner at Keen's ran a little late. I walked in and I think they were losing 20-2. Memory is a little hazy but I think they lost 100-42 on ESPN. That was way more embarrassing than anything Jarvis or Fran did IMO.
Click to expand...

Score was 92-60, an embarrassing 32 point loss. How much did you down grade Lavin for his 105-68 37-point loss to Villanova?
Click to expand...

There were a lot of those blowouts during the Norm years. It was the Norm. Again what was disappointing about Lavin would have been cause for celebration under Norm.
I can only speak for myself, when Norm was here I thought the program would suck forever. This is the main reason I was easier on Lavin than some.
 
Norm was the chemotherapy to the Jarvis cancer.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top