Well said. No, VERY well said; my sentiments exactly except substitute watching some part of about half of Mets games rather than football.
Embarrassing
- Thread starter dwcross
- Start date
Wow you are a real glutton for punishment. Bring back Vogelbach.
It's very difficult to predict the future of compensation of college athletes at the major D1 level.
However anyone feels about supporting NIL, without that support, we cannot even begin to compete at this level. By next season,"payrolls", will approach $2.5-$3 million. If the donors don't support it next season, we don't have a program, period. Not a single high level player will come here without being paid.
By implementing NIL, the NCAA added $1-4 million to the cost of operating a high level D1 basketball program. If the schools themselves take over paying players, some schools who raise large sums of donor contributions to the athletic departments can absorb those costs. Perhaps NIL will transform to college paying salaries, but the need for donors to support it will be the difference between winning and losing.
Overall, the numbers needed to run a major program are staggering for a private university. New on campus arena? $100 million. New athletic practice facilities (in our case conversion of Taffner) $30 million. Building a new student athletic and wellness facility $75 million.
Get used to UCONN dominating the league as long as they stay in the Big East. Public universities are funded by tax dollars and private contributions. So taxpayers are supporting public schools, a huge benefit.
Each team perpetually having success in the Big East is well funded by donors. There's a reason DePaul is a perennial bottom dweller. Georgetown won't stay on the bottom.
A great coach isn't enough. What successful coach would come to a program without a solid NIL (salary) capability or decent facilities including arena.
Winning comes at a cost. If we win enough we can fill an arena. What will the cost be? Right now you can't get a good seat to a broadway play for under $200, and a very good sest for under $350. Concert ticket prices also through the roof. A college team has to generate ticket revenue in 16-18 h home dates. Do the math. A number of our fans say $40 is too much for a college ticket in NYC. It just doesn't work without donor support, suckers footing the bill, even at public universities.
The truth is, those costs don't even guarantee small successes. It's just the price of admission to play at the high rollers table.
Grim outlook st 2 a.m. Solution above my pay grade but thank God for the big donors investing in basketball success.
However anyone feels about supporting NIL, without that support, we cannot even begin to compete at this level. By next season,"payrolls", will approach $2.5-$3 million. If the donors don't support it next season, we don't have a program, period. Not a single high level player will come here without being paid.
By implementing NIL, the NCAA added $1-4 million to the cost of operating a high level D1 basketball program. If the schools themselves take over paying players, some schools who raise large sums of donor contributions to the athletic departments can absorb those costs. Perhaps NIL will transform to college paying salaries, but the need for donors to support it will be the difference between winning and losing.
Overall, the numbers needed to run a major program are staggering for a private university. New on campus arena? $100 million. New athletic practice facilities (in our case conversion of Taffner) $30 million. Building a new student athletic and wellness facility $75 million.
Get used to UCONN dominating the league as long as they stay in the Big East. Public universities are funded by tax dollars and private contributions. So taxpayers are supporting public schools, a huge benefit.
Each team perpetually having success in the Big East is well funded by donors. There's a reason DePaul is a perennial bottom dweller. Georgetown won't stay on the bottom.
A great coach isn't enough. What successful coach would come to a program without a solid NIL (salary) capability or decent facilities including arena.
Winning comes at a cost. If we win enough we can fill an arena. What will the cost be? Right now you can't get a good seat to a broadway play for under $200, and a very good sest for under $350. Concert ticket prices also through the roof. A college team has to generate ticket revenue in 16-18 h home dates. Do the math. A number of our fans say $40 is too much for a college ticket in NYC. It just doesn't work without donor support, suckers footing the bill, even at public universities.
The truth is, those costs don't even guarantee small successes. It's just the price of admission to play at the high rollers table.
Grim outlook st 2 a.m. Solution above my pay grade but thank God for the big donors investing in basketball success.
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MugCostanza
Well-known member
A) At least for next season there is nobody in the Big East that will be able to significantly outspend us in NIL and that includes UConn. Obviously when Pitino decides to hang em up and/or Repole becomes disinterested in the program we could be in trouble on that front but there may be a new system by then. Until then, NIL isn't going to stop us from being competitive, the opposite actually. But you're right, that just gets us into the game, now we have to play our cards right.
B) It wasn't the NCAA that implemented NIL, it was the courts. The NCAA fought tooth and nail to stop NIL but they never really had a chance to stop that snowball once it started rolling downhill.
The system as is will not last much longer, it's completely unsustainable. As I've said before, colleges will start paying their athletes salaries and while a salary cap can't realistically be instituted I believe contracts will be drawn up similar to how coaching contracts are in regards to buyouts.
Something like this. A 4 star Freshman signs a 4 year contract.
Year 1 he receives $250K with a $150K buyout after his first season to be paid by the school he transfers to.
Year 2 is a $500K salary with a $300K buyout
Year 3 $750K salary with a $500K buyout
Year 4 $1M salary
This system should in theory work for everybody. The kids get a guarantee in the form of a contract that they'll get paid unlike what's happening now with NIL where not everybody is getting paid what was agreed to. The schools and coaches get some form of protection against players leaving in the form of buyouts. If a 2 star kid pops off at Hofstra during his Sophomore season, they'll still get something out of it when he portals to a bigger program. His buyout would be small enough where it would be peanuts for a power conference school but would really help the low-mid major school he's leaving. The contracts could also get renegotiated and adjusted every season like coaching contracts do.
Your view of the origins of NIL is correct but the court ruling allowed players to make money off their name, image and likeness, the genesis of which were video games, etc.
The idea behind the ruling was that the player was entitled to some of the monies being generated by third parties using either of the three.
The free for all it became was the NCAA washing their hands of establishing any regulatory rules or guidelines, which while a pipe dream, is their charter. In reality, anyone with a modicum of common sense knows their sole goal is to make themselves money.
To wash their hands of the whole situation they put in the absolute ludicrous free agency which in fact is what turned ”college” football and basketball into ridiculous Wild West professional leagues. I couldn’t care less what the players make, but the idea of a player playing four years for four different schools is beyond words asinine. We are seeing the last vestiges of “teams” IMO and I think the landscapes will be unrecognizable in five years. But it allows the NCAA and P5 or whatever the number is now to continue raking in the $ for now.
Lurking in the background of course is the players unionizing as employees of the universities and/or agents and lawyers and mega donors becoming the true power brokers of college sports and coaches evolving into quasi controlled PR figureheads, like many coaches and mangers in professional sports have become.
The idea behind the ruling was that the player was entitled to some of the monies being generated by third parties using either of the three.
The free for all it became was the NCAA washing their hands of establishing any regulatory rules or guidelines, which while a pipe dream, is their charter. In reality, anyone with a modicum of common sense knows their sole goal is to make themselves money.
To wash their hands of the whole situation they put in the absolute ludicrous free agency which in fact is what turned ”college” football and basketball into ridiculous Wild West professional leagues. I couldn’t care less what the players make, but the idea of a player playing four years for four different schools is beyond words asinine. We are seeing the last vestiges of “teams” IMO and I think the landscapes will be unrecognizable in five years. But it allows the NCAA and P5 or whatever the number is now to continue raking in the $ for now.
Lurking in the background of course is the players unionizing as employees of the universities and/or agents and lawyers and mega donors becoming the true power brokers of college sports and coaches evolving into quasi controlled PR figureheads, like many coaches and mangers in professional sports have become.
Bingo! This ain't college basketball anymore. As you say, this is simply another pro league with little oversight. The NCAA don't care because it's raking in billion, as are the agents, TV networks, etc. etc.
Some can pretend that this is still college basketball, but that's just an illusion. Everything that I loved about college sports is now gone. Listening to guys like Jay Bilas still talk about the game as if it were the same as even 10 years ago, is a total joke.
School pride?? That's also a joke. These kids(I'm generalizing, there are exceptions) care as much about St. John's University as I do about the University of Moscow. In turn, it's very difficult to get attached to any of these kids since most will play for schools 1-2 years.
It's a sad state of affairs and I don't see it changing anytime soon, if ever.
But for all of our discontent with the current state of affairs, at the heart of it is losing, not athletes getting paid, not the transfer portal. When we were 4-1 in conference, there was barely a peep of unhappiness.
There are now guys in the NBA with $50 million multi year contracts who are role players. I remember thinking i was done with baseball as a fan when Craig Swan got a $625k contract. My taking losing to heart with the Mets ended when Kevin McReynolds started leaving the stadium in uniform to beat traffic and couldn't care less about losing.
I would say that over the years few men's basketball players engaged in student life on campus. Yes they stayed 4 years, then 2 or 3, and now as little as one. Colleges for most always has been just a canvas to ply their art.
Guarantee that nearly everyonebwho posts here will be posting in 3 years (if still alive).
The NIL and portal system sucks but wHat really eats at us is investing time and emotion on losing.
Yesterday before the game I was chatting with a hugebfollower and supporter and his wife. What he said makes sense: "Tomorrow morning win or lose, we will get up and get on with our lives, with work or whatever. These kids who put in the sweat and hard work are the ones who will carry the wins or losses with them We just root."
There are now guys in the NBA with $50 million multi year contracts who are role players. I remember thinking i was done with baseball as a fan when Craig Swan got a $625k contract. My taking losing to heart with the Mets ended when Kevin McReynolds started leaving the stadium in uniform to beat traffic and couldn't care less about losing.
I would say that over the years few men's basketball players engaged in student life on campus. Yes they stayed 4 years, then 2 or 3, and now as little as one. Colleges for most always has been just a canvas to ply their art.
Guarantee that nearly everyonebwho posts here will be posting in 3 years (if still alive).
The NIL and portal system sucks but wHat really eats at us is investing time and emotion on losing.
Yesterday before the game I was chatting with a hugebfollower and supporter and his wife. What he said makes sense: "Tomorrow morning win or lose, we will get up and get on with our lives, with work or whatever. These kids who put in the sweat and hard work are the ones who will carry the wins or losses with them We just root."
Redenbacher
Well-known member
Under that scenario, the players would be making substantially more than professors, and most deans. There is just no way that is going to happen.
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Yep. Eventually, they’ll be organizers banding together 6+ players and selling them as a package (the “Johnnies”) to the highest bidder…It’ll become the Johnnies sponsored by St. John’s University.
Mullins Revenge
Well-known member
I think its crazy that fans are asked to help w/ NIL. That is completely laughable. I would not give 1 penny of my hard earned money to help pay for these kids to come here.
Schools in SEC get between 50-60 million a year BIG 10 even more yet none of that money goes to the players but fans who already spend plenty of money on their teams in numerous ways should take their hard earned cash out of their pockets and just hand it over to these college kids who are already getting plenty of benefits GTFOH.
Remember when the whole NIL concept first started and we were being sold on the ridiculous idea that these NIL companies were in this game for the love of the school/sport/players and not for profit? I laughed at that notion then, and I laugh even harder at it now.
The end game is always to make money, unless you're a bonafide charity, and even then there's always some people making money.
I truly believe Anderson was a good man and the players walked all over him and the fans wanted him gone. If Pitino turns things around next year most everyone (I know there are exceptions here and elsewhere) will love him again.
I wanted him hired and nothing about his behavior so far has surprised me. No objective person ever considered his number one attribute his character. And me wanting him at SJU says a lot about what I think about the current condition of the sport. It is one hundred percent another professional league, and that starts at the very top of all these institution. At least it is at the “power” conferences.
None of it makes me happy, but for now I am accepting it. Still reconciling whether I will maintain interest without major changes, changes I doubt will come.
I don’t know whether Pitino ends up successful at SJU because the game has had massive changes and he is 71. That was always the case. But he is a huge star in his own way, and money talks more than ever in this sport. Sitting alone at CA last year the idea that this program could raise the NIL to compete again was hard to imagine. That is currently not an issue and that is totally Pitino related.
The good news is if this doesn’t work nothing else on the table was going to work either. I still think it can and will continue to just look away when Rick does Rick stuff. That was always the Faustian bargain, no reason for me to change course now.
I wanted him hired and nothing about his behavior so far has surprised me. No objective person ever considered his number one attribute his character. And me wanting him at SJU says a lot about what I think about the current condition of the sport. It is one hundred percent another professional league, and that starts at the very top of all these institution. At least it is at the “power” conferences.
None of it makes me happy, but for now I am accepting it. Still reconciling whether I will maintain interest without major changes, changes I doubt will come.
I don’t know whether Pitino ends up successful at SJU because the game has had massive changes and he is 71. That was always the case. But he is a huge star in his own way, and money talks more than ever in this sport. Sitting alone at CA last year the idea that this program could raise the NIL to compete again was hard to imagine. That is currently not an issue and that is totally Pitino related.
The good news is if this doesn’t work nothing else on the table was going to work either. I still think it can and will continue to just look away when Rick does Rick stuff. That was always the Faustian bargain, no reason for me to change course now.
Queens_Ball
Well-known member
Everyone would like to win big and win quick but in hindsight it would have been better to let Soriano walk and invest time in the foundational players he brought in rather than the one year hired guns (Jenkins, Ledlum, Dingle) they just got SO much court time to achieve this outcome. Yes we all know with the portal that Iowa State and K State quick one year turnarounds can happen but much more common are teams like this where it’s just a mixed bag that never comes together. I’m not trying to pretend I wasn’t in favor of it at the time also but…hindsight.
Would we have felt better about a team where Wilcher/Dunlap/Zuby etc get more minutes than they deserve? They start slower and lose much more but as the season progresses we see growth & progress. We’d have a sense that these guys who are confident & ready to go next season instead of still needing them to prove if they’re capable. I like the guys coming in but I’m worried in particular about Luis and Taylor leaving (zero clue what would compel Taylor to stay) This season has somewhat changed my perception on what I want out of a rebuild/1st season of a new coach.
Would we have felt better about a team where Wilcher/Dunlap/Zuby etc get more minutes than they deserve? They start slower and lose much more but as the season progresses we see growth & progress. We’d have a sense that these guys who are confident & ready to go next season instead of still needing them to prove if they’re capable. I like the guys coming in but I’m worried in particular about Luis and Taylor leaving (zero clue what would compel Taylor to stay) This season has somewhat changed my perception on what I want out of a rebuild/1st season of a new coach.
Carnesecca had some good post game rants. I witnessed a few during my Torch years.
Would I like it better if Pitino was more toned down? Of course. But I also think he honest about being the worst year of his career. He didn’t just come here to lay groundwork for the next guy.
After being exiled to Greece and coaching at Iona, this is his last chance to win big, and he is in the process of losing one year. This offseason, whether anyone cares (and we all do, but it’s hard to think about it while watching what is currently going on) will be massive.
The NIL is firmly in place (even with this dud of season) and players have been targeted (like it or not these are the rules we are playing with), and Pitino himself could use this offseason to reset a bit since his singular focus is ensuring a season like this never happens again.
We are laughing stock of college bball right now. RP is not a liked man by others. We are our record no matter how close we have lost games. Hind sight is 20-20 could talk all day about what ifs. The only hope we have at this point is the RP hates losing and is not a loser and will do whatever it takes to get back to winning. I don’t think RP wants to go out like this on his last dance.
Money is always a factor, but I believe that Rick's desire to be back on top, one last time, is what's driving him at this point in his life. I just hope that he, like K and Jay before him, doesn't decide that he doesn't want to deal with all the NIL BS, and the lack of control(over the players) that comes with it.
That’s an improvement. For the last 25 years, no one cared or remembered SJU even had a basketball program.
MarkRedman
Well-known member
I've seen enough games to make a couple of observations that might not be well accepted by the fan base but here goes:
1. We would have won more games this year had we kept last year's roster intact and supplemented it with a few additions
2. Pitino tried to get the these guys to play his system rather than adjusting to the talents and abilities of his players. Never works.
1. We would have won more games this year had we kept last year's roster intact and supplemented it with a few additions
2. Pitino tried to get the these guys to play his system rather than adjusting to the talents and abilities of his players. Never works.