Dunn

This Duke of Earlington" post=420316 said:
Dunn is an old school guard.  He cant catch and shoot or hit a standstill jumper.

He can pull up off the dribble and make shots.  Hes realized this.  You now never see him catch and launch.  If he is going to take a jumper, he takes a few hard dribbles left or right and pulls up.

Hes like a guard in the 80s.

 
Click to expand...
This is good content.
 
I said this in the X game thread about Dunn, I think a lot of fans get on him not because of the quantity of mistakes/turnovers, but because there's always like 2-3 plays a game from him that just drive you up a wall. I'm totally guilty of this myself.

like the pass attempt at the end of the first half, we could've held for last shot and he launched a pass that had no chance. Those plays are frustrating. 

BUT... during this winning streak it has become increasingly clear to me that Dunn is incredibly important to this team. I think he's the MOST important player after Champ and Posh. For a few reasons. 

One, he isn't scared of any moment. I saw people complaining about how we continue to inbound to Dunn late in close games. Guess what... he wants the ball in the big moments and I don't think anyone else does. Champagnie as great as he is... hides a lot in big moments. It's funny because that might have to do with his personality off the court. He's a very timid, laid back, shy dude. Insanely talented but I don't know if he wants the ball in the big moments.

Dunn takes the challenge every time. Maybe he doesn't always succeed but there's something to be said about a guy that wants it in those crunch time moments. That's why he's gonna keep getting the ball. 

Two, his midrange is actually... reliable? My dad and I have a tendency to scream "NOOOO" every time he takes an off balance mid range jumper. But then they fall. I wouldn't say we are an offensively challenged team this year. You saw it the other night we put up a lot of points. But while Earlington hitting 3s was awesome, it's not something to count on game to game. Dunn's midrange however... is. He's gonna hit a couple every game. And we need that offense. 

Lastly, he's a REALLY good defender. He isn't the flashy defender like Posh getting steals all the time so you know he's there. Dunn is more like a shutdown corner in football. You never hear his name because he's busy just doing his job. I really focused in on his defense the other night. He does an outstanding job. And when he gets his hands on a rebound... he grabs it forcefully unlike some other players on our roster.


TLDR - so to my other fans out there who find themselves wanting to slam their remote when Dunn makes a bad turnover... take a breath and remember he more than makes up for it. He's a great two way player and our most clutch/ballsiest player as well. We need him to get to where we wanna go as a team 
 
Last edited:
Amaseinyourface" post=420333 said:
Beast of the East" post=420332 said:
St. John's plays a high speed game, always pushing the ball up, looking for the inevitable 4 on 3, 3 on 2, wide open looks that occur before the defense sets.   The price to pay is more turnovers, but CMA has said more than once is that the goal is play a type of ball that makes other teams uncomfortable, and when you make the other team speed up, they will make more mistakes playing an uncomfortable style than we will.   So, part of analyzing Dunn's turnovers, is comparing it not to other guards season stats, but the number of turnovers we are producing per game on defense, and the number of easy baskets that are created by our high speed style of play.   That doesn't always lead to assists by Dunn, but an unoffical stat we track is the pass that leads to a pass leading to a basket.   
Click to expand...


Good points. But to play devils advocate a little (and I feel I have to say I am a Dunn fan but this is a board where we discuss our players), for all intensive purposes a pull up semi contested jumper on the break with no rebounders underneath could be considered a TO. Now Dunn has made a great % of those shots as of late but we are talking about a career sub40% shooter. I still hope we never see that shot again. In the half court, flow of the offense, sure.
Click to expand...
Interesting point, and I would agree that taking contested jumpers with no rebounders underneath on the break is a poor decision..   I hate long jumpers on a break, even if uncontested, because the goal in that situation typically is an easier shot.   If you walk the ball up, your error rate goes down usually, and this style of play is sure to create more questionable decisions than a slower pace.   
 
Jack Williams" post=420337 said:
I said this in the X game thread about Dunn, I think a lot of fans get on him not because of the quantity of mistakes/turnovers, but because there's always like 2-3 plays a game from him that just drive you up a wall. I'm totally guilty of this myself.

like the pass attempt at the end of the first half, we could've held for last shot and he launched a pass that had no chance. Those plays are frustrating. 

BUT... during this winning streak it has become increasingly clear to me that Dunn is incredibly important to this team. I think he's the MOST important player after Champ and Posh. For a few reasons. 

One, he isn't scared of any moment. I saw people complaining about how we continue to inbound to Dunn late in close games. Guess what... he wants the ball in the big moments and I don't think anyone else does. Champagnie as great as he is... hides a lot in big moments. It's funny because that might have to do with his personality off the court. He's a very timid, laid back, shy dude. Insanely talented but I don't know if he wants the ball in the big moments.

Dunn takes the challenge every time. Maybe he doesn't always succeed but there's something to be said about a guy that wants it in those crunch time moments. That's why he's gonna keep getting the ball. 

Two, his midrange is actually... reliable? My dad and I have a tendency to scream "NOOOO" every time he takes an off balance mid range jumper. But then they fall. I wouldn't say we are an offensively challenged team this year. You saw it the other night we put up a lot of points. But while Earlington hitting 3s was awesome, it's not something to count on game to game. Dunn's midrange however... is. He's gonna hit a couple every game. And we need that offense. 

Lastly, he's a REALLY good defender. He isn't the flashy defender like Posh getting steals all the time so you know he's there. Dunn is more like a shutdown corner in football. You never hear his name because he's busy just doing his job. I really focused in on his defense the other night. He does an outstanding job. And when he gets his hands on a rebound... he grabs it forcefully unlike some other players on our roster.


TLDR - so to my other fans out there who find themselves wanting to slam their remote when Dunn makes a bad turnover... take a breath and remember he more than makes up for it. He's a great two way player and our most clutch/ballsiest player as well. We need him to get to where we wanna go as a team 

Perfectly said Jack
Click to expand...
 
I like Dunn - as a role player.  He's fine bringing the ball up.  He plays good on-ball defense.  He can get to the rim if he picks his spots wisely.  He can be streaky good from mid-range. 

OTOH he cannot shoot from distance at all, he's short, and he has a strong tendency to try to do too much when the ball in his hands at crunch time (although he's gotten better at that).

To me in a perfect world it would be Greg starting next to Posh and Dunn coming off the bench to give either of them a breather.  Greg is not only taller, he is basically better at everything thann Dunn except for (perhaps) bringing the ball up and (definitely) assertiveness/confidence.

Hopefully Greg will continue to get healthy and will become more assertive and that is what will happen.  No shade on Dunn - he does a lot of good things for us (and a few frustrating ones), but there's just more upside playing Williams.
 
lawmanfan" post=420390 said:
I like Dunn - as a role player.  He's fine bringing the ball up.  He plays good on-ball defense.  He can get to the rim if he picks his spots wisely.  He can be streaky good from mid-range. 

OTOH he cannot shoot from distance at all, he's short, and he has a strong tendency to try to do too much when the ball in his hands at crunch time (although he's gotten better at that).

To me in a perfect world it would be Greg starting next to Posh and Dunn coming off the bench to give either of them a breather.  Greg is not only taller, he is basically better at everything thann Dunn except for (perhaps) bringing the ball up and (definitely) assertiveness/confidence.

Hopefully Greg will continue to get healthy and will become more assertive and that is what will happen.  No shade on Dunn - he does a lot of good things for us (and a few frustrating ones), but there's just more upside playing Williams.

Except we've played our best ball since Dunn was inserted in to the starting lineup, and I highly doubt CMA is gonna make a change while things are working so well. But don't fret, I'm sure there will be plenty of minutes for GWill spelling Dunn, Posh and Cole. My sense is that we could win a national championship with Dunn in the starting lineup, and a large segment of the fan base would still be saying "imagine how good we'd be if Williams started over Dunn" /media/kunena/emoticons/wink.png
 
Click to expand...
 
I'm just asking for Dunn to think before making a pass into a crowd of 3 or 4 players from the opponent.
 
Dunn has actully improved this season since he has learned to stop the 3 point attempts and act more like a point guard.  Since the Creighton game in early January he has shot minimal 3's and gotten significantly more assists while shooting nearly 80% from the free throw line.  Must have had an Epiphany over Christmas break.
 
lawmanfan" post=420390 said:
I like Dunn - as a role player.  He's fine bringing the ball up.  He plays good on-ball defense.  He can get to the rim if he picks his spots wisely.  He can be streaky good from mid-range. 

OTOH he cannot shoot from distance at all, he's short, and he has a strong tendency to try to do too much when the ball in his hands at crunch time (although he's gotten better at that).

To me in a perfect world it would be Greg starting next to Posh and Dunn coming off the bench to give either of them a breather.  Greg is not only taller, he is basically better at everything thann Dunn except for (perhaps) bringing the ball up and (definitely) assertiveness/confidence.

Hopefully Greg will continue to get healthy and will become more assertive and that is what will happen.  No shade on Dunn - he does a lot of good things for us (and a few frustrating ones), but there's just more upside playing Williams.
Click to expand...

Agree with it all and just think it also makes sense from a balance standpoint splitting up Williams/Wusu and Posh/Dunn.
 
Dunn's strong play the last 10 games has mirrored our strong play for the last 10. IMO they go hand and hand. His mid range game Along with his on ball D have been very good. 
 
I don't know if he's coming back, but if you use him correctly, I think he's much better for us than hunting for a high school guard in the spring signing period. I think our bench will be really good next season if we don't lose anyone beyond the two guys who I think are definite departures, and he'll be a major part of that bench depth.
 
EliteBaller K" post=420397 said:
I'm just asking for Dunn to think before making a pass into a crowd of 3 or 4 players from the opponent.

He did that one time. Granted it was a poor choice when you consider the point in the game, but he saw an opening in the D and decided to try and thread the needle. If you've ever played ball, especially uptempo ball, then you know how tempting it is to try and make a pass like that. He knew when he let go of the ball that it was a mistake.  He'll have other turnovers, but I doubt we see him try to make a similar type pass again. 
 
Click to expand...
 
I think Dunn fits this team perfectly.  Far from a perfect player but does so many good things that it impacts play on both sides of the ball.  For some reason when he does make a mistake, it seems to be a glaring one and that is all people focus on (myself included).  Love his hustle, heart, effort and productivity - obviously coaching staff does as well.
 
Dunn has taken more criticism than any other player this year.

He's helped more than hurt.  Glad he stopped taking 3's, glad he makes he's long 2's though I hope to have more confidence when he takes them.. scream "No!!", everytime at TV.

Still...he plays hard, quick and solid D.  

If he wants to come back, we should be happy. 
 
Last edited:
Dunn is a classic example of an athlete 'playing within himself.'  He know his own limits.  I like that. 

I do think his strength is on defense and ball control.  When we need to score, he probably should be on the bench.   
 
The reason this thread is 14 pages is because, as everyone has stated, Dunn comes with the good and he comes with bad.  I have warmed up to Dunn and agree he is a net positive.  I am most impressed that he has improved greatly and it is clearly due to being open to coaching.  Dunn cut the 3-point shot from his game, has developed that mid range jumper from the elbow and is largely playing more under control.  I imagine that's not by accident.  Good for him for accepting direction and putting in the work to improve his game. 

I will throw the remote at him again, but overall......I like Dunn.
  
 
Last edited:
Money" post=420415 said:
I think Dunn fits this team perfectly.  Far from a perfect player but does so many good things that it impacts play on both sides of the ball.  For some reason when he does make a mistake, it seems to be a glaring one and that is all people focus on (myself included).  Love his hustle, heart, effort and productivity - obviously coaching staff does as well.


sincerely 
keep posting Money!
(and of course 
we need all the money we can acquire lol - new facilities and all )

 
Click to expand...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
A lot of the commentary about Dunn actually should be more directed at CMA .  Firstly, Dunn has made many Positive contributions to the team the last 2 years . That is undeniable . But , in more than a few games in that time period , he has committed game losing mistakes by turning it over , missing crucial foul shots or , ill advised final shots by incessant dribbling . Given that history , the question is for the Coach to answer . Why ? Why have him with the ball in crunch time , where 1,or 2,plays will decide the game ? To me , the ball should be in Posh or Champ's hands in a game where 1 play will decide it . They are better shooters , higher free throw shooters and the Teams best players . Why have it otherwise ? 
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top