DePaul Game

[beast of the east]

Blaming the wizard for this loss is ridiculous.  First, give credit to DePaul for hitting crucial 3 pointers and for hitting the boards like men vs. boys.
Credit will not be given to these horrendous Big East refs who missed at least 3 calls and one where Harrison was mugged and all but butt fkd.
As for our redmen, Pointer and Obekpa were boxed out smartly by the Blue Demons rendering both useless in the rebounding department.  The rebounding margin was mostly due to their deficiency. Amar grabbed 5 rebs in limited action and his speed and aggressive play was huge when Obekpa collected his usual knucklehead fouls.
Harrison was banged up liked a waterfront whore. He had his worst game of the season.  One criticism I have for Lavin was not designing some isolation plays for Rysheed against Billy Garrett who played with 4 fouls most of the 2nd half. This loss may hurt come selection Sunday but DePaul is not as bad a club as some think. The refs put Garrett on the line 13 times and the kid shot 100 %.  We do not have a forward with Henry's shooting or aggressive rebounding and with Pointer reverting to being unproductive, our  only advantage in the game was Rysheed and Green. That will never be enough to win in this conference regardless who was coaching St. John's today.  The game was lost in O/T and Lavin is starting to use Amar because Christian Jones is a liability.  As it was last season, the NCAA will come do to the Big East tourney where anything is possible. 
On to Marquette and anyone who sells their Duke tickets is a pussy, plain and simple.

The refs? The refs weren't jumping at every head fake, opening up the court for those 3 pointers. The refs don't recruit for us, leaving us with such a short roster that Harrison had to play 44 minutes when he probably shouldn't have been playing at all; the same roster that has 1 legitimate consistent offensive creator. Jordan can create but he is not remotely consistent. We got our fair share of calls and shot plenty of foul shots. As someone posted earlier, a glimpse at this team without Harrison; just virtually nothing to go to.

Even the most rose-colored fans know the impact that losing Thomas and ADR has had on the front line but we have been a 6 man team all season and only the Nova game was out of reach. Sure we softened on defending the 3 but DePaul did a great job of protecting Garrett with substitutions. His 13 straight free throws was the major difference and, no, we did not get our share of calls. The refs even had to be asked to go to the monitor when they were giving the ball to DePaul under 2 minutes. On replays there were 2 clear fouls called against us that could be factors in the loss. One was so clear the announcers agreed. I agree about Jordan and that is why players like Obekpa and Jordan need to stay another year. I am glad you see the impact of a bad 2014 recruiting effort but that is not what cost us the game. Two players with bad hands and bad games by Pointer and Obekpa were major factors. You may as well blame Ron Linfonte for a bad tapping job on D'Lo and Branch. 13 straight free throws by Billy! I bet it will not happen again all season. We beat them at our place.

Sorry, bad or missed calls are part of the game; good teams overcome them. Rationalize all you want, the refs had nothing to do with the loss, nothing. We had opportunities, came out and played last years defense in the 2nd half and got outrebounded as badly as we did because Purnell pulled our bigs (as much as we have one) away from the basket. Look at the tape and watch AA rotating and Obepka. Not saying AA is a better player, he is not at this stage, but he understands the game and positioning on the defensive end and has the discipline to hedge and recover; he's not 35 feet from the basket looking to steal the ball one on one. That is why he was in position to get some rebounds while he was in and Obepka could not. That is coachng he got in Europe; coaching Obepka has not received at SJU.

While part of the game, when the game comes down to ONE possession, that is the game at times. Yesterday the game came down to free throws and their kid was 13-13. I agree 100 % about Obekpa. He was out of position too much and at least we know AA has basketball smarts. Pity a player like Jones is an empty suitcase.

Would be shocked to see Jones spend his last two years here. He is probably better served playing closer to home at a lower level school.

Good call. If ever there was a golden opportunity to break through, this season would have been it. Except of course, next season.

 

[logen]

Blaming the wizard for this loss is ridiculous.  First, give credit to DePaul for hitting crucial 3 pointers and for hitting the boards like men vs. boys.
Credit will not be given to these horrendous Big East refs who missed at least 3 calls and one where Harrison was mugged and all but butt fkd.
As for our redmen, Pointer and Obekpa were boxed out smartly by the Blue Demons rendering both useless in the rebounding department.  The rebounding margin was mostly due to their deficiency. Amar grabbed 5 rebs in limited action and his speed and aggressive play was huge when Obekpa collected his usual knucklehead fouls.
Harrison was banged up liked a waterfront whore. He had his worst game of the season.  One criticism I have for Lavin was not designing some isolation plays for Rysheed against Billy Garrett who played with 4 fouls most of the 2nd half. This loss may hurt come selection Sunday but DePaul is not as bad a club as some think. The refs put Garrett on the line 13 times and the kid shot 100 %.  We do not have a forward with Henry's shooting or aggressive rebounding and with Pointer reverting to being unproductive, our  only advantage in the game was Rysheed and Green. That will never be enough to win in this conference regardless who was coaching St. John's today.  The game was lost in O/T and Lavin is starting to use Amar because Christian Jones is a liability.  As it was last season, the NCAA will come do to the Big East tourney where anything is possible. 
On to Marquette and anyone who sells their Duke tickets is a pussy, plain and simple.

The refs? The refs weren't jumping at every head fake, opening up the court for those 3 pointers. The refs don't recruit for us, leaving us with such a short roster that Harrison had to play 44 minutes when he probably shouldn't have been playing at all; the same roster that has 1 legitimate consistent offensive creator. Jordan can create but he is not remotely consistent. We got our fair share of calls and shot plenty of foul shots. As someone posted earlier, a glimpse at this team without Harrison; just virtually nothing to go to.

Even the most rose-colored fans know the impact that losing Thomas and ADR has had on the front line but we have been a 6 man team all season and only the Nova game was out of reach. Sure we softened on defending the 3 but DePaul did a great job of protecting Garrett with substitutions. His 13 straight free throws was the major difference and, no, we did not get our share of calls. The refs even had to be asked to go to the monitor when they were giving the ball to DePaul under 2 minutes. On replays there were 2 clear fouls called against us that could be factors in the loss. One was so clear the announcers agreed. I agree about Jordan and that is why players like Obekpa and Jordan need to stay another year. I am glad you see the impact of a bad 2014 recruiting effort but that is not what cost us the game. Two players with bad hands and bad games by Pointer and Obekpa were major factors. You may as well blame Ron Linfonte for a bad tapping job on D'Lo and Branch. 13 straight free throws by Billy! I bet it will not happen again all season. We beat them at our place.

Sorry, bad or missed calls are part of the game; good teams overcome them. Rationalize all you want, the refs had nothing to do with the loss, nothing. We had opportunities, came out and played last years defense in the 2nd half and got outrebounded as badly as we did because Purnell pulled our bigs (as much as we have one) away from the basket. Look at the tape and watch AA rotating and Obepka. Not saying AA is a better player, he is not at this stage, but he understands the game and positioning on the defensive end and has the discipline to hedge and recover; he's not 35 feet from the basket looking to steal the ball one on one. That is why he was in position to get some rebounds while he was in and Obepka could not. That is coachng he got in Europe; coaching Obepka has not received at SJU.

While part of the game, when the game comes down to ONE possession, that is the game at times. Yesterday the game came down to free throws and their kid was 13-13. I agree 100 % about Obekpa. He was out of position too much and at least we know AA has basketball smarts. Pity a player like Jones is an empty suitcase.

Agree about one possession but instead of pointing at the couple of calls refs might have missed, which is just too easy IMO, I prefer to think the real reasons are the things a team can control, which are mostly in the areas of defense, rebounding, limiting turnovers, taking good shots and generally playing intelligent ball. That has much more of an impact on a game then a couple of missed calls. I counted AT LEAST 7-8 times in just the 2nd half where our on ball defender jumped or overreacted to a ball or shot fake away from the basket that broke our defense down completely and allowed a wide open shot. You don't want Garrett to shoot 13-13, don't put him on the line; he beat Jordan so easy at times it was ridiculous.

 

[Section3]

I

Eh, they shot 33% from 3pt, that's respectable. We shot 16%

I give you credit Desco for pointing out our last shooting performance, especially from three, was fools gold. We are just not a good shooting team. We depend on steals & TOs for easy buckets to generate offense.

The issues that are most disconcerting, however, are terrible results defending the three & abysmal rebounding. You can often win when shooting poorly by grinding it out. Seldom do you win when you have a high negative three point differential and get killed on the boards. Allowing so many second shots makes it doubly difficult for an offensively challenged team to win consistently.

DePaul took almost three times as many threes as we did. I certainly don't want to get into a three point shooting contest with most teams but if we are going to chuck up shots, maybe more of them should be three pointers?

Difference, beyond sheer volume, is that their 3s were, for the most part, uncontested...we failed to close out and in many cases, our guys wandered away from their assignment and were focused on helping others...

On the other hand, our 3s were, in many cases, contested...Greene, while not the root cause for the loss, once again, took too many shots while in motion where his % is low...also continues his penchant for foricing low % shots after hitting a shot presumabl be cause he thinks he has a hot hand

 

[Section3]

Freakin Depaul, we can't beat freakin Depaul? Lavin has to go.

Lavin coaching Harrison to a 2-10 shooting day is unforgiveable, as was the strategy to get pounded on the boards. I guarantee if Dunlap was coach Harrison goes at least 11-10 and Obekpa/Pointer grab 40 rebounds. Man, this guy just can't coach, period.

Would be nice to have 1 or 2 guys on the bench that could fill in for D'Angelo, who had to play 44 minutes on a strained calf today.

Also would be nice to have multiple guys with actual height that could maybe grab a rebound. I guess we'll just have to be satisfied with 2 academic question marks (KT and ADR) and a kid who average 1 ppg at FIU (JDR).

No doubt we need to find those 1-2 guys who can fit in the rotation. AA is looking like he belongs. We got crushed on the boards today, but because of essentially playing 4 guards (if you count Dom that way). We had a +8 (21-13) on turnovers and +7 on steals (13-4). That offsets the minus 17 (41-24) loss on the boards. You really can't have it both ways.

To me at least, if you are playing 5 guards in your top 6, you simply must shoot better than 37% to win. We didn't, and didn't

An while you dont want to have significant rebopunding discrepancies, we didnt lose this game due to rebounding...we lost it because of a lapse in defensive focus starting in the 2nd half leading to to too many wide open 3s - many of which the shooter actually had plenty of time to set feet and adjust ball

 

[Section3]

I

Eh, they shot 33% from 3pt, that's respectable. We shot 16%

I give you credit Desco for pointing out our last shooting performance, especially from three, was fools gold. We are just not a good shooting team. We depend on steals & TOs for easy buckets to generate offense.

The issues that are most disconcerting, however, are terrible results defending the three & abysmal rebounding. You can often win when shooting poorly by grinding it out. Seldom do you win when you have a high negative three point differential and get killed on the boards. Allowing so many second shots makes it doubly difficult for an offensively challenged team to win consistently.

DePaul took almost three times as many threes as we did. I certainly don't want to get into a three point shooting contest with most teams but if we are going to chuck up shots, maybe more of them should be three pointers?

Other than D'lo, who was playing hurt, and PGIV who else do we have that can even semi-consistently hit 3s? And please don't tell me AA.

Myles Stewart

Dont want to overhype the kid, but I think he has demonstarted the ability to hit an open 3 (albeit in cameo appearances)...just don't see why he is not used a bit more...

 

[beast of the east]

Freakin Depaul, we can't beat freakin Depaul? Lavin has to go.

Lavin coaching Harrison to a 2-10 shooting day is unforgiveable, as was the strategy to get pounded on the boards. I guarantee if Dunlap was coach Harrison goes at least 11-10 and Obekpa/Pointer grab 40 rebounds. Man, this guy just can't coach, period.

Would be nice to have 1 or 2 guys on the bench that could fill in for D'Angelo, who had to play 44 minutes on a strained calf today.

Also would be nice to have multiple guys with actual height that could maybe grab a rebound. I guess we'll just have to be satisfied with 2 academic question marks (KT and ADR) and a kid who average 1 ppg at FIU (JDR).

No doubt we need to find those 1-2 guys who can fit in the rotation. AA is looking like he belongs. We got crushed on the boards today, but because of essentially playing 4 guards (if you count Dom that way). We had a +8 (21-13) on turnovers and +7 on steals (13-4). That offsets the minus 17 (41-24) loss on the boards. You really can't have it both ways.

To me at least, if you are playing 5 guards in your top 6, you simply must shoot better than 37% to win. We didn't, and didn't

An while you dont want to have significant rebopunding discrepancies, we didnt lose this game due to rebounding...we lost it because of a lapse in defensive focus starting in the 2nd half leading to to too many wide open 3s - many of which the shooter actually had plenty of time to set feet and adjust ball

Agreed. With 5 guards we should have a problem being so slow to the ball on the perimeter. I'd understand if this was happening because our guards collapse to help out and the ball is quickly quickly out, but this was happening by simply rotating the ball weak side to strong side. Someone was always open for a 3, and their poorer shooting bigs passed up about 10 three opportunities out of their range.

 

[Section3]

Too much Jordan yesterday. I don't think he played awful. In fact, we once again saw the incredible potential he has. However, the offense was overall stagnant. I am sure part of this was due to DLO's injury, but we need to get back to good ball movement.

The Jordan isolation play can be a great weapon, but it can't be our offense.

Agree re: Jordan potential...but think he got to basket much easier last year...he seems to run into a bunch of defenders this year leading to TOs and blocked shots...I think teams recognized his lack of a dependable jump shot, are giving him more room and, hence, his ability to get to the rim at will has been neutralzied a bit...hopefully he recognizes this and is working on his jumper

 

[Section3]

I noticed a number of references to the refs...I do agree that they all sucked both ways...they did seem to play pin ball with Harrison but certainly not the reason for the loss...

although i have to say, if you know that Burr is reffing a SJ game, dont bet SJ...that guys has been a pain in the a$$ forever...

 

[monte]

I noticed a number of references to the refs...I do agree that they all sucked both ways...they did seem to play pin ball with Harrison but certainly not the reason for the loss...

although i have to say, if you know that Burr is reffing a SJ game, dont bet SJ...that guys has been a pain in the a$$ forever...

I think D'lo, because of the way he tends to initiate contact and because of his theatrics , makes it very difficult on the refs. He's gonna get some calls that he shouldn't and he's gonna lose some calls that he should get. Having said this, he's as good as anyone I've ever seen at drawing fouls.

 

[Amaseinyourface]

I noticed a number of references to the refs...I do agree that they all sucked both ways...they did seem to play pin ball with Harrison but certainly not the reason for the loss...

although i have to say, if you know that Burr is reffing a SJ game, dont bet SJ...that guys has been a pain in the a$$ forever...

I think D'lo, because of the way he tends to initiate contact and because of his theatrics , makes it very difficult on the refs. He's gonna get some calls that he shouldn't and he's gonna lose some calls that he should get. Having said this, he's as good as anyone I've ever seen at drawing fouls.

They are really starting to take note of his -slow down in front of the trailing big man- move, and are not calling it like they used to. But as we know, dlo is no dummy and will adjust I am sure.

 

[usguard]

Not seeing the game but if we zoned in the 2nd half perhaps we would have been in a better position to cover their 3s since we new that was going to come in bunches and we had a good lead

 

[monte]

Too much Jordan yesterday. I don't think he played awful. In fact, we once again saw the incredible potential he has. However, the offense was overall stagnant. I am sure part of this was due to DLO's injury, but we need to get back to good ball movement.

The Jordan isolation play can be a great weapon, but it can't be our offense.

Agree re: Jordan potential...but think he got to basket much easier last year...he seems to run into a bunch of defenders this year leading to TOs and blocked shots...I think teams recognized his lack of a dependable jump shot, are giving him more room and, hence, his ability to get to the rim at will has been neutralzied a bit...hopefully he recognizes this and is working on his jumper

Also think he needs to work on his left hand/going left

 

[Class of 72]

Too much Jordan yesterday. I don't think he played awful. In fact, we once again saw the incredible potential he has. However, the offense was overall stagnant. I am sure part of this was due to DLO's injury, but we need to get back to good ball movement.

The Jordan isolation play can be a great weapon, but it can't be our offense.

Agree re: Jordan potential...but think he got to basket much easier last year...he seems to run into a bunch of defenders this year leading to TOs and blocked shots...I think teams recognized his lack of a dependable jump shot, are giving him more room and, hence, his ability to get to the rim at will has been neutralzied a bit...hopefully he recognizes this and is working on his jumper

Also think he needs to work on his left hand/going left

Both he and Obekpa would be committing professional basketball suicide if they leave this year. Both better keep attending classes.

 

[41ndone]

Jordan has way more turnovers then assists. Forget the nba, they wouldn't pay him to play in China.

 

[SJU1512]

What's going on here is very simple. We've had halftime leads in 4 of 5 Big East games. The one game we didn't have a halftime lead - Seton Hall - we had a lead with a minute to go in the first.

We've been outscored in the second half in 4 of 5 Big East games. The one game we weren't outscored in the second half - Providence - we outscored them by 1 after allowing a 17 point lead to dwindle to 3.

We're playing great in the first half. We just don't have the legs to finish games. Unfortunately we aren't just getting tired within single games, we are getting tired as the season wears on. Obekpa in particular looks exhausted.

Feel for these kids. They are playing as hard as you can possibly play. But a 6-man rotation just isn't sustainable and, unfortunately, fatigue is an issue that tends to get worse, not better, as a season wears on.

 

[paultzman]

What's going on here is very simple. We've had halftime leads in 4 of 5 Big East games. The one game we didn't have a halftime lead - Seton Hall - we had a lead with a minute to go in the first.

We've been outscored in the second half in 4 of 5 Big East games. The one game we weren't outscored in the second half - Providence - we outscored them by 1 after allowing a 17 point lead to dwindle to 3.

We're playing great in the first half. We just don't have the legs to finish games. Unfortunately we aren't just getting tired within single games, we are getting tired as the season wears on. Obekpa in particular looks exhausted.

Feel for these kids. They are playing as hard as you can possibly play. But a 6-man rotation just isn't sustainable and, unfortunately, fatigue is an issue that tends to get worse, not better, as a season wears on.

Spot on observation. DePaul getting all those open threes was directly related to being a step late closing out. Fatigue is one factor in that happening for sure.

 

[beast of the east]

What's going on here is very simple. We've had halftime leads in 4 of 5 Big East games. The one game we didn't have a halftime lead - Seton Hall - we had a lead with a minute to go in the first.

We've been outscored in the second half in 4 of 5 Big East games. The one game we weren't outscored in the second half - Providence - we outscored them by 1 after allowing a 17 point lead to dwindle to 3.

We're playing great in the first half. We just don't have the legs to finish games. Unfortunately we aren't just getting tired within single games, we are getting tired as the season wears on. Obekpa in particular looks exhausted.

Feel for these kids. They are playing as hard as you can possibly play. But a 6-man rotation just isn't sustainable and, unfortunately, fatigue is an issue that tends to get worse, not better, as a season wears on.

Too easy to say that. Basketball games are won in the second half, and not only because short teams tire out. Think of it this way, in the NBA there are 50 players averaging 33 minutes per game or more. While fresh legs have their merits, each TV time out is the equivalent of a 5 minute rest, and there are multiple TV/media timeouts during the game is addition to team called. I just don't buy it fully.

 

[fuchsia]

What's going on here is very simple. We've had halftime leads in 4 of 5 Big East games. The one game we didn't have a halftime lead - Seton Hall - we had a lead with a minute to go in the first.

We've been outscored in the second half in 4 of 5 Big East games. The one game we weren't outscored in the second half - Providence - we outscored them by 1 after allowing a 17 point lead to dwindle to 3.

We're playing great in the first half. We just don't have the legs to finish games. Unfortunately we aren't just getting tired within single games, we are getting tired as the season wears on. Obekpa in particular looks exhausted.

Feel for these kids. They are playing as hard as you can possibly play. But a 6-man rotation just isn't sustainable and, unfortunately, fatigue is an issue that tends to get worse, not better, as a season wears on.

With everyone healthy do you see this problem easing as Amar becomes part of the regular rotation? I would also consider JDR to lean on opposing bigs as a way to return some fatigue to the opponents.
D'LO
Dom
Obekpa
PGIV
Rysheed
Jamal
Amar
JDR

and maybe a tad of Myles Stewart when we need to rest D'LO for a minute or two and still want defenders worrying about threes from multiple shooters.

 

[SJU1512]

What's going on here is very simple. We've had halftime leads in 4 of 5 Big East games. The one game we didn't have a halftime lead - Seton Hall - we had a lead with a minute to go in the first.

We've been outscored in the second half in 4 of 5 Big East games. The one game we weren't outscored in the second half - Providence - we outscored them by 1 after allowing a 17 point lead to dwindle to 3.

We're playing great in the first half. We just don't have the legs to finish games. Unfortunately we aren't just getting tired within single games, we are getting tired as the season wears on. Obekpa in particular looks exhausted.

Feel for these kids. They are playing as hard as you can possibly play. But a 6-man rotation just isn't sustainable and, unfortunately, fatigue is an issue that tends to get worse, not better, as a season wears on.

Too easy to say that. Basketball games are won in the second half, and not only because short teams tire out. Think of it this way, in the NBA there are 50 players averaging 33 minutes per game or more. While fresh legs have their merits, each TV time out is the equivalent of a 5 minute rest, and there are multiple TV/media timeouts during the game is addition to team called. I just don't buy it fully.

Agree with that. Also think out kids are in exceptional shape, certainly haven't seen a team whose first 6 is better conditioned than ours.

But we are +22 in the first half and -41 in the second half in Big East play, a 63 point swing. Those are stark numbers for only 5 games. But numbers don't always tell all, and I think the more important thing for me is that these numbers reflect what I see. We just aren't as sharp in the details in the second half. Don't close out on shooters as effectively, don't wrap up defensive possessions on the backboards as effectively, revert back to 1 on 1 offensively too much, are more prone to committing lazy fouls (especially damaging with our short rotation), etc. Unfortunately these are often signs of fatigue.

You have to be ready to play minute 40 with the same intensity that you play minute 1 in college basketball, and I just don't know that we're able to do that right now (through no fault of our kids).

 

[beast of the east]

What's going on here is very simple. We've had halftime leads in 4 of 5 Big East games. The one game we didn't have a halftime lead - Seton Hall - we had a lead with a minute to go in the first.

We've been outscored in the second half in 4 of 5 Big East games. The one game we weren't outscored in the second half - Providence - we outscored them by 1 after allowing a 17 point lead to dwindle to 3.

We're playing great in the first half. We just don't have the legs to finish games. Unfortunately we aren't just getting tired within single games, we are getting tired as the season wears on. Obekpa in particular looks exhausted.

Feel for these kids. They are playing as hard as you can possibly play. But a 6-man rotation just isn't sustainable and, unfortunately, fatigue is an issue that tends to get worse, not better, as a season wears on.

With everyone healthy do you see this problem easing as Amar becomes part of the regular rotation? I would also consider JDR to lean on opposing bigs as a way to return some fatigue to the opponents.
D'LO
Dom
Obekpa
PGIV
Rysheed
Jamal
Amar
JDR

and maybe a tad of Myles Stewart when we need to rest D'LO for a minute or two and still want defenders worrying about threes from multiple shooters.

Agree 100%. IF we are going to win, we need 8 serviceable players. Lavin reads this board and started giving Amar minutes - just kidding.