DePaul Game

[beast of the east]

What's going on here is very simple. We've had halftime leads in 4 of 5 Big East games. The one game we didn't have a halftime lead - Seton Hall - we had a lead with a minute to go in the first.

We've been outscored in the second half in 4 of 5 Big East games. The one game we weren't outscored in the second half - Providence - we outscored them by 1 after allowing a 17 point lead to dwindle to 3.

We're playing great in the first half. We just don't have the legs to finish games. Unfortunately we aren't just getting tired within single games, we are getting tired as the season wears on. Obekpa in particular looks exhausted.

Feel for these kids. They are playing as hard as you can possibly play. But a 6-man rotation just isn't sustainable and, unfortunately, fatigue is an issue that tends to get worse, not better, as a season wears on.

Too easy to say that. Basketball games are won in the second half, and not only because short teams tire out. Think of it this way, in the NBA there are 50 players averaging 33 minutes per game or more. While fresh legs have their merits, each TV time out is the equivalent of a 5 minute rest, and there are multiple TV/media timeouts during the game is addition to team called. I just don't buy it fully.

Agree with that. Also think out kids are in exceptional shape, certainly haven't seen a team whose first 6 is better conditioned than ours.

But we are +22 in the first half and -41 in the second half in Big East play, a 63 point swing. Those are stark numbers for only 5 games. But numbers don't always tell all, and I think the more important thing for me is that these numbers reflect what I see. We just aren't as sharp in the details in the second half. Don't close out on shooters as effectively, don't wrap up defensive possessions on the backboards as effectively, revert back to 1 on 1 offensively too much, are more prone to committing lazy fouls (especially damaging with our short rotation), etc. Unfortunately these are often signs of fatigue.

You have to be ready to play minute 40 with the same intensity that you play minute 1 in college basketball, and I just don't know that we're able to do that right now (through no fault of our kids).

Good post. I agree.

 

[beast of the east]

What's going on here is very simple. We've had halftime leads in 4 of 5 Big East games. The one game we didn't have a halftime lead - Seton Hall - we had a lead with a minute to go in the first.

We've been outscored in the second half in 4 of 5 Big East games. The one game we weren't outscored in the second half - Providence - we outscored them by 1 after allowing a 17 point lead to dwindle to 3.

We're playing great in the first half. We just don't have the legs to finish games. Unfortunately we aren't just getting tired within single games, we are getting tired as the season wears on. Obekpa in particular looks exhausted.

Feel for these kids. They are playing as hard as you can possibly play. But a 6-man rotation just isn't sustainable and, unfortunately, fatigue is an issue that tends to get worse, not better, as a season wears on.

Too easy to say that. Basketball games are won in the second half, and not only because short teams tire out. Think of it this way, in the NBA there are 50 players averaging 33 minutes per game or more. While fresh legs have their merits, each TV time out is the equivalent of a 5 minute rest, and there are multiple TV/media timeouts during the game is addition to team called. I just don't buy it fully.

Agree with that. Also think out kids are in exceptional shape, certainly haven't seen a team whose first 6 is better conditioned than ours.

But we are +22 in the first half and -41 in the second half in Big East play, a 63 point swing. Those are stark numbers for only 5 games. But numbers don't always tell all, and I think the more important thing for me is that these numbers reflect what I see. We just aren't as sharp in the details in the second half. Don't close out on shooters as effectively, don't wrap up defensive possessions on the backboards as effectively, revert back to 1 on 1 offensively too much, are more prone to committing lazy fouls (especially damaging with our short rotation), etc. Unfortunately these are often signs of fatigue.

You have to be ready to play minute 40 with the same intensity that you play minute 1 in college basketball, and I just don't know that we're able to do that right now (through no fault of our kids).

Foul trouble has also plagued us in the second half. Dom and CO have no trouble picking up fouls in bunches when we can least afford it, which we never can.

 

[1and1sju]

Halftime adjustments have something to do with it as well.

 

[monte]

What's going on here is very simple. We've had halftime leads in 4 of 5 Big East games. The one game we didn't have a halftime lead - Seton Hall - we had a lead with a minute to go in the first.

We've been outscored in the second half in 4 of 5 Big East games. The one game we weren't outscored in the second half - Providence - we outscored them by 1 after allowing a 17 point lead to dwindle to 3.

We're playing great in the first half. We just don't have the legs to finish games. Unfortunately we aren't just getting tired within single games, we are getting tired as the season wears on. Obekpa in particular looks exhausted.

Feel for these kids. They are playing as hard as you can possibly play. But a 6-man rotation just isn't sustainable and, unfortunately, fatigue is an issue that tends to get worse, not better, as a season wears on.

With everyone healthy do you see this problem easing as Amar becomes part of the regular rotation? I would also consider JDR to lean on opposing bigs as a way to return some fatigue to the opponents.
D'LO
Dom
Obekpa
PGIV
Rysheed
Jamal
Amar
JDR

and maybe a tad of Myles Stewart when we need to rest D'LO for a minute or two and still want defenders worrying about threes from multiple shooters.

Agree 100%. IF we are going to win, we need 8 serviceable players. Lavin reads this board and started giving Amar minutes - just kidding.

I am going to assume that beyond the first 6, there is no one that has shown enough in practice to give Lavin and staff the confidence to play them any more than a few MPG, depending on match ups. And if he was going to experiment with them by giving them significant minutes, he should have done so early in the year(excluding JDR) not in the midst of the conference schedule.

 

[Jack Williams]

What's going on here is very simple. We've had halftime leads in 4 of 5 Big East games. The one game we didn't have a halftime lead - Seton Hall - we had a lead with a minute to go in the first.

We've been outscored in the second half in 4 of 5 Big East games. The one game we weren't outscored in the second half - Providence - we outscored them by 1 after allowing a 17 point lead to dwindle to 3.

We're playing great in the first half. We just don't have the legs to finish games. Unfortunately we aren't just getting tired within single games, we are getting tired as the season wears on. Obekpa in particular looks exhausted.

Feel for these kids. They are playing as hard as you can possibly play. But a 6-man rotation just isn't sustainable and, unfortunately, fatigue is an issue that tends to get worse, not better, as a season wears on.

With everyone healthy do you see this problem easing as Amar becomes part of the regular rotation? I would also consider JDR to lean on opposing bigs as a way to return some fatigue to the opponents.
D'LO
Dom
Obekpa
PGIV
Rysheed
Jamal
Amar
JDR

and maybe a tad of Myles Stewart when we need to rest D'LO for a minute or two and still want defenders worrying about threes from multiple shooters.

Agree 100%. IF we are going to win, we need 8 serviceable players. Lavin reads this board and started giving Amar minutes - just kidding.

I am going to assume that beyond the first 6, there is no one that has shown enough in practice to give Lavin and staff the confidence to play them any more than a few MPG, depending on match ups. And if he was going to experiment with them by giving them significant minutes, he should have done so early in the year(excluding JDR) not in the midst of the conference schedule.

What confuses me is he did give myles a chance early in the year. I think he even logged 10+ minutes against a top 10 team, and also started a game. And in those opportunities he provided decent offense ability, and IMO he showed enough to warrant playing time throughout the season because he's on a team that doesn't have many scoring options. I'm shocked he hasn't logged a minute in big east play

 

[room112]

I'm still not buying the fatigue argument. As has previously been mentioned, Providence was very successful last year with only a 6 player rotation, including winning 3 games in a row to win the big east tourney.

 

[paultzman]

K

I'm still not buying the fatigue argument. As has previously been mentioned, Providence was very successful last year with only a 6 player rotation, including winning 3 games in a row to win the big east tourney.

A big difference between that team & our current one was they had much more of interior presence and did not rely on guards rebounding so much. Batts, Harris, Henton & Carson D handled that themselves. Our guards are asked to do everything and more prone to fatigue Imo. Cotton factor was obviously a huge plus in their success. He never took a breather and performed super just about every game.

 

[redfan0025hhy]

I may be way late to the party here with this comment, but can someone tell me how... our best player and leader having a bum leg in the 2nd half of the game, going 2-10, including missing 3 crucial elbow/free throw line jumpers (normally like layups for harrison) and so we most likely easily win if he is himself... is Lavin's fault?

 

[paultzman]

I may be way late to the party here with this comment, but can someone tell me how... our best player and leader having a bum leg in the 2nd half of the game, going 2-10, including missing 3 crucial elbow/free throw line jumpers (normally like layups for harrison) and so we most likely easily win if he is himself... is Lavin's fault?

Not. Don't recall too many folks saying that. The thin roster seems a common & reasonable complaint, but germane to the season, not just that game.

 

[redfazed]

I may be way late to the party here with this comment, but can someone tell me how... our best player and leader having a bum leg in the 2nd half of the game, going 2-10, including missing 3 crucial elbow/free throw line jumpers (normally like layups for harrison) and so we most likely easily win if he is himself... is Lavin's fault?

Not. Don't recall too many folks saying that. The thin roster seems a common & reasonable complaint, but germane to the season, not just that game.

And the fact that a player with a bum leg had to log 44 minutes is a testament to that.

 

[redfan0025hhy]

see below

 

[redfan0025hhy]

I may be way late to the party here with this comment, but can someone tell me how... our best player and leader having a bum leg in the 2nd half of the game, going 2-10, including missing 3 crucial elbow/free throw line jumpers (normally like layups for harrison) and so we most likely easily win if he is himself... is Lavin's fault?

Not. Don't recall too many folks saying that. The thin roster seems a common & reasonable complaint, but germane to the season, not just that game.

And the fact that a player with a bum leg had to log 44 minutes is a testament to that.

Oh yea I'm sure if we played a deeper bench and D'Lo was out there less and we lost no one would complain that he didn't play enough. I know i want my best player and leader on the floor as much as possible. In fact, look at most good teams that have that star/leader type player, those guys play almost the entire game, always.

 

[SJU1512]

What's going on here is very simple. We've had halftime leads in 4 of 5 Big East games. The one game we didn't have a halftime lead - Seton Hall - we had a lead with a minute to go in the first.

We've been outscored in the second half in 4 of 5 Big East games. The one game we weren't outscored in the second half - Providence - we outscored them by 1 after allowing a 17 point lead to dwindle to 3.

We're playing great in the first half. We just don't have the legs to finish games. Unfortunately we aren't just getting tired within single games, we are getting tired as the season wears on. Obekpa in particular looks exhausted.

Feel for these kids. They are playing as hard as you can possibly play. But a 6-man rotation just isn't sustainable and, unfortunately, fatigue is an issue that tends to get worse, not better, as a season wears on.

With everyone healthy do you see this problem easing as Amar becomes part of the regular rotation? I would also consider JDR to lean on opposing bigs as a way to return some fatigue to the opponents.
D'LO
Dom
Obekpa
PGIV
Rysheed
Jamal
Amar
JDR

and maybe a tad of Myles Stewart when we need to rest D'LO for a minute or two and still want defenders worrying about threes from multiple shooters.

I think we have to Fuchsia. We are making a concerted effort with Amar and that has been progressing nicely, he's giving much better minutes than he was early on. We are also using him with CO which is helpful (1) to actually go bigger sometimes, and (2) to get Dom a breather. Even just one additional player in the regular rotation is going to make a difference.

It's a fine line. Last year we spread minutes around too liberally which cost us developing a cohesive rotation and winning/losing with our best guys on the floor. This year we are thin and I don't think we really have enough to consistently hold up in the last 5 minutes of games, hard as we are playing. Ideally you want to be in that 7-8 man rotation range. I think we are trying to get there and don't think we have much choice, because what we are doing right now isn't working.

 

[logen]

I may be way late to the party here with this comment, but can someone tell me how... our best player and leader having a bum leg in the 2nd half of the game, going 2-10, including missing 3 crucial elbow/free throw line jumpers (normally like layups for harrison) and so we most likely easily win if he is himself... is Lavin's fault?

Not. Don't recall too many folks saying that. The thin roster seems a common & reasonable complaint, but germane to the season, not just that game.

And the fact that a player with a bum leg had to log 44 minutes is a testament to that.

Oh yea I'm sure if we played a deeper bench and D'Lo was out there less and we lost no one would complain that he didn't play enough. I know i want my best player and leader on the floor as much as possible. In fact, look at most good teams that have that star/leader type player, those guys play almost the entire game, always.

No one would argue in the least that a healthy Harrison should play as many minutes as humanly possible. However, he was obviously not healthy, you could see it in his shot and the fact he virtually took himself out of the offense as the game went on, standing on the side and not moving at all at times. To his credit, he played D the entire game. Paultzman and P Simmons explained very well why the fact that we had NOTHING else to go to is clearly Lavin's fault.

 

[frank61]

Like it or not, I think we have to start working some of the guys on the pines into the games to give our starters a blow. Until we do that we are going to continue to fall off in the 2nd half of games.

 

[ras]

I may be way late to the party here with this comment, but can someone tell me how... our best player and leader having a bum leg in the 2nd half of the game, going 2-10, including missing 3 crucial elbow/free throw line jumpers (normally like layups for harrison) and so we most likely easily win if he is himself... is Lavin's fault?

Not. Don't recall too many folks saying that. The thin roster seems a common & reasonable complaint, but germane to the season, not just that game.

And the fact that a player with a bum leg had to log 44 minutes is a testament to that.

Oh yea I'm sure if we played a deeper bench and D'Lo was out there less and we lost no one would complain that he didn't play enough. I know i want my best player and leader on the floor as much as possible. In fact, look at most good teams that have that star/leader type player, those guys play almost the entire game, always.

No one would argue in the least that a healthy Harrison should play as many minutes as humanly possible. However, he was obviously not healthy, you could see it in his shot and the fact he virtually took himself out of the offense as the game went on, standing on the side and not moving at all at times. To his credit, he played D the entire game. Paultzman and P Simmons explained very well why the fact that we had NOTHING else to go to is clearly Lavin's fault.

We could have tried a lineup of Branch,Jorden,Greene ,Dom and CO. Playing DLO 44 min when he could hardly even jump is ridiculous.