Creighton

L

LINY89

Active member
I don't understand what the media's obsession with this team is. ESPN practically drools over them. Their SOS is #104 last I checked and will fall even further soon. They have ZERO signature wins. Their best win was against unranked Wisconsin and they have fallen since they beat Indiana. They have ZERO ranked wins. How can that team still be ranked and G'Town isn't after winning against #5 L'Ville? Really maddening IMO. I understand as a mid major you don't have the same opportunities to make a name for yourself being in a weak conference, but for god's sake make a real schedule. Look at what teams like Memphis, Gonzaga, Butler, VCU, Davidson, etc. had on their schedules (all technically mid majors). Creighton fills up on Bradley, Missouri State, Southern Illinois, Illinois State, etc. and their record is 100% inflated. Am I saying they are a bad team? Not at all...that's why it makes no sense to me why they have such a pansy schedule...hell even Marist played Kentucky within the last year or 2 when they were #1.

If you are going to be ranked as a mid major IMO you should schedule aggressively and beat some of the real big boys before being given a ranking. Creighton relies on one player for 90% of their offense. I'd love to see Creighton grow a pair of balls and play teams like Kentucky (even unranked Kentucky would ravage them), Indiana, Duke, Cuse, L'Ville, Georgetown, etc. I have watched McDermott a lot and while he has the best pure shooting ability in the NCAA, he is very slow, unathletic, and weak. He would easily be shut down against a team with real defense with big athletic men like Kentucky or G'Town. It seems some schools are loved by polling committees i.e. Creighton, SDSU, UNLV, Wichita St, etc. If you want to be ranked as a mid major, make a man's schedule and knock off a ranked power conference team or 2 while dominating your division. Creighton has proven it can dominate terrible teams over and over and it gets old. Time to prove they can beat a top tier ACC/Big Ten/Big 12/Big East school.
 
I don't understand what the media's obsession with this team is. ESPN practically drools over them. Their SOS is #104 last I checked and will fall even further soon. They have ZERO signature wins. Their best win was against unranked Wisconsin and they have fallen since they beat Indiana. They have ZERO ranked wins. How can that team still be ranked and G'Town isn't after winning against #5 L'Ville? Really maddening IMO. I understand as a mid major you don't have the same opportunities to make a name for yourself being in a weak conference, but for god's sake make a real schedule. Look at what teams like Memphis, Gonzaga, Butler, VCU, Davidson, etc. had on their schedules (all technically mid majors). Creighton fills up on Bradley, Missouri State, Southern Illinois, Illinois State, etc. and their record is 100% inflated. Am I saying they are a bad team? Not at all...that's why it makes no sense to me why they have such a pansy schedule...hell even Marist played Kentucky within the last year or 2 when they were #1.

If you are going to be ranked as a mid major IMO you should schedule aggressively and beat some of the real big boys before being given a ranking. Creighton relies on one player for 90% of their offense. I'd love to see Creighton grow a pair of balls and play teams like Kentucky (even unranked Kentucky would ravage them), Indiana, Duke, Cuse, L'Ville, Georgetown, etc. I have watched McDermott a lot and while he has the best pure shooting ability in the NCAA, he is very slow, unathletic, and weak. He would easily be shut down against a team with real defense with big athletic men like Kentucky or G'Town. It seems some schools are loved by polling committees i.e. Creighton, SDSU, UNLV, Wichita St, etc. If you want to be ranked as a mid major, make a man's schedule and knock off a ranked power conference team or 2 while dominating your division. Creighton has proven it can dominate terrible teams over and over and it gets old. Time to prove they can beat a top tier ACC/Big Ten/Big 12/Big East school.
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You're joking, right?
And what is with your fascination with mid majors?

The Creightons of the NCAA are your typical tourney 5/12 seed nightmare match ups. No one will want to see them come March. No one. March is exactly when you'll see them getting a piece of your beloved major conference stallions.
 
No one is talking about if they are dangerous in March. I'm talking about how easily they are ranked even though they really have no signature wins and have yet to beat a ranked power conference team. Look at their schedule...it's probably by far the easiest in the nation out of anyone ranked.
 
Have you ever seen them play? They would wipe the floor with us.
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And how do you know that? Their team relies more on 1 player than I've seen since the days of MJ on the Bulls or the Cavs with LeBron. Take McDermott out of the game or at least make him alter shots and Creighton is not great. If teams can neutralize Harrison in our conference, why can't McDermott be neutralized? If we played a Baylor type game where we leave him wide open all game then yes we would get smacked and McDermott would have like 40 points shooting 65% from 3. Who has Creighton played where you said "Wow...they really proved themselves there as a national power"? We have already beat 2 teams better than them in Notre Dame and Cincy. Murray State is every bit as good as Creighton as well and they didn't "wipe the floor" with us. We lost it, they didn't win it. I will give Creighton all the respect it deserves if it beat teams like Miami, Duke, Georgetown, Kentucky, Cuse, etc. Teams like Temple, VCU, Davidson, etc. almost always have much more demanding schedules and they actually knock off some of the big boys in the regular season. Creighton's SOS proves that they have a cupcake schedule and they still have 2 losses in conference. To be a ranked mid major IMO you need to either A) Go undefeated in a bad conference or B ) schedule aggressively against top teams and win a few of those while dominating your own conference. I think the second Creighton runs into a tall, long, fast, athletic team to defend McDermott, they are in big trouble. Those teams are not Bradley or Missouri State...they are the Georgetown's.
 
If creighton played in the big east, im sure theyd win quite a few games against good teams. its hard to win every game even in a mediocre conference. after all, we lost to usf, unc ash, ect and we are faring pretty well against good big east squads.
 
If creighton played in the big east, im sure theyd win quite a few games against good teams. its hard to win every game even in a mediocre conference. after all, we lost to usf, unc ash, ect and we are faring pretty well against good big east squads.
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That's not his point what he is saying that given what they have been up against and how they've faired, they should not be ranked. I do think Joe is half right but he makes MVC sound like a really bad conference when it is not. It has good teams and Creighton also has had no "cupcake" schedule that he speaks of.
 
If creighton played in the big east, im sure theyd win quite a few games against good teams. its hard to win every game even in a mediocre conference. after all, we lost to usf, unc ash, ect and we are faring pretty well against good big east squads.
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That's not his point what he is saying that given what they have been up against and how they've faired, they should not be ranked. I do think Joe is half right but he makes MVC sound like a really bad conference when it is not. It has good teams and Creighton also has had no "cupcake" schedule that he speaks of.
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For a team that was ranked #12 just recently and still #21 now with the 104th SOS and zero ranked wins, how does that not scream "overrated"? I never said they were a bad team. They are good, but overrated and do not deserve that ranking. A real athletic team would give them fits all game...especially if McDermott is neutralized because of it. Creighton gets a TON of easy layups due to blown coverages, and routinely leave him open for 3's which he makes almost auto. He can still make some 3's with a hand in his face, but if you take away his open looks and really get physical with him, you can hold him to a 15 point day instead of 30. Creighton thrives in a half-court offense where they can settle down and find McDermott. In major conferences with the top teams, they would make Creighton play under pressure all game, pushing the ball in transition, and really playing a fast-paced game that would not bode well for Creighton. At the next level you can't rely on 1 player and that's what Creighton does. It may get you a win here or there, but you won't be able to get away with winning consistently like that in say the Big East. He is their rebounder, their 3 point threat, their inside guy, etc.

The MVC besides Creighton and Wichita State is not good. I will have to disagree. This is why you will see Creighton beating conference teams by 30 each game and it gets annoying because they never made a real schedule to really prove what they are. Mike Tyson beating up midgets would get old at a certain point...you have to bring in someone your own size or better to really earn your ranking IMO and beat them. For some reason (maybe it is just me), teams like Creighton and SDSU are always in the rankings even if they didn't really beat any major teams. If I'm Creighton, I want to play the big boys so I can prove my team. Look at what teams other mid majors schedule...there are daring schedules and there are cupcake schedules. Creighton has a cupcake schedule when you consider this was a #12 team.
 
If I'm Creighton, I want to play the big boys so I can prove my team. Look at what teams other mid majors schedule...there are daring schedules and there are cupcake schedules. Creighton has a cupcake schedule when you consider this was a #12 team.
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Ever consider that the big boys may not want to go to their place to play them in front of 18,000 rabid fans? And after seven tournament appearances in the 2000s, they may not feel like they should have to go on the road every time for a big-name opponent, especially without the promise of a home and home.

They could easily get upset in the first round. But they could just as easily make the final four in a season like this one. They are a very solid team. I actually think Wichita State is a better team and better coached, which is saying a lot. I'd like to see both teams make it to the second weekend.
 
That's not how it works. The little guys don't get the big dragons to come play them at home...you go to their house and try to slay them. I don't care how many tourney's you won in the 2000's, as a MVC team you won't have Duke coming to you. If you want your shot at the big time, it's the little guys who have to take the risk, not the established juggernauts. I think they are a very dangerous team, but I just don't see them winning consistently in the tourney. Can't see them winning back to back games say against teams like Indiana and Duke or whoever. You can't tell me that no major teams want to schedule Creighton. They are #21 and already have a few losses in the MVC...they are not world beaters. I would put them about as good as a Murray State, maybe slightly better. Come tourney time, it's the teams like Creighton who have a very weak schedule who will get punished due to their SOS. They are still not truly tested...it would be like us playing DePaul and Rutgers all year without seeing how we do against Cuse, G'Town, L'ville, etc. They will be coming into the tourney against teams with battle scars, proving themselves at the highest level. I think it would definitely wreak havoc on a team that plays Bradley, Missouri State, Southern Illinois, etc. Do you really think Creighton won't go down hard if a real team finally figures out McDermott? Remember what happened when Murray State played us with Canaan being unstoppable against cupcakes...we mostly slowed him down and he shot like 37% as a wooden watch player. I guess what I'm saying is Creighton needs to prove it can run with a team like Kentucky, and McDermott has to prove that he can be dominant against real studs like Noel but I doubt it because he has very low athleticism and speed. It's possible to be good and overrated and that's all I'm saying based primarily on their butter soft schedule.
 
Joe, just watch them. They can play.

It's a team of juniors and seniors who also happens to have 1 of the best players in the country (McDermott) playing for them. I guarantee you if they were playing in the Big East right now, those "quality wins" you're looking for would be plentiful.
 
That's not how it works. The little guys don't get the big dragons to come play them at home...you go to their house and try to slay them. I don't care how many tourney's you won in the 2000's, as a MVC team you won't have Duke coming to you. If you want your shot at the big time, it's the little guys who have to take the risk, not the established juggernauts. I think they are a very dangerous team, but I just don't see them winning consistently in the tourney. Can't see them winning back to back games say against teams like Indiana and Duke or whoever. You can't tell me that no major teams want to schedule Creighton. They are #21 and already have a few losses in the MVC...they are not world beaters. I would put them about as good as a Murray State, maybe slightly better. Come tourney time, it's the teams like Creighton who have a very weak schedule who will get punished due to their SOS. They are still not truly tested...it would be like us playing DePaul and Rutgers all year without seeing how we do against Cuse, G'Town, L'ville, etc. They will be coming into the tourney against teams with battle scars, proving themselves at the highest level. I think it would definitely wreak havoc on a team that plays Bradley, Missouri State, Southern Illinois, etc. Do you really think Creighton won't go down hard if a real team finally figures out McDermott? Remember what happened when Murray State played us with Canaan being unstoppable against cupcakes...we mostly slowed him down and he shot like 37% as a wooden watch player. I guess what I'm saying is Creighton needs to prove it can run with a team like Kentucky, and McDermott has to prove that he can be dominant against real studs like Noel but I doubt it because he has very low athleticism and speed. It's possible to be good and overrated and that's all I'm saying based primarily on their butter soft schedule.
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Creighton has an RPI of 35. It's a fair argument to say they shouldn't be ranked 12, but truthfully the MVC is a halfway decent conference.Very few Big East teams would run through it unscaved. Creighton has actually won 7 games vs top 100 rpi teams with only 2 losses and are 2-1 vs rpi top 50. They have proven A LOT more than Murray state with an rpi of 96, who is just 2-2 vs rpi top 100 and best win is against US. Now the Ohio valley, there is a shitty conference ( other than Belmont). So don't put creighton and murray state on the same level.
 
That's not how it works. The little guys don't get the big dragons to come play them at home...you go to their house and try to slay them. I don't care how many tourney's you won in the 2000's, as a MVC team you won't have Duke coming to you. If you want your shot at the big time, it's the little guys who have to take the risk, not the established juggernauts. I think they are a very dangerous team, but I just don't see them winning consistently in the tourney. Can't see them winning back to back games say against teams like Indiana and Duke or whoever. You can't tell me that no major teams want to schedule Creighton. They are #21 and already have a few losses in the MVC...they are not world beaters. I would put them about as good as a Murray State, maybe slightly better. Come tourney time, it's the teams like Creighton who have a very weak schedule who will get punished due to their SOS. They are still not truly tested...it would be like us playing DePaul and Rutgers all year without seeing how we do against Cuse, G'Town, L'ville, etc. They will be coming into the tourney against teams with battle scars, proving themselves at the highest level. I think it would definitely wreak havoc on a team that plays Bradley, Missouri State, Southern Illinois, etc. Do you really think Creighton won't go down hard if a real team finally figures out McDermott? Remember what happened when Murray State played us with Canaan being unstoppable against cupcakes...we mostly slowed him down and he shot like 37% as a wooden watch player. I guess what I'm saying is Creighton needs to prove it can run with a team like Kentucky, and McDermott has to prove that he can be dominant against real studs like Noel but I doubt it because he has very low athleticism and speed. It's possible to be good and overrated and that's all I'm saying based primarily on their butter soft schedule.
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Creighton has an RPI of 35. It's a fair argument to say they shouldn't be ranked 12, but truthfully the MVC is a halfway decent conference.Very few Big East teams would run through it unscaved. Creighton has actually won 7 games vs top 100 rpi teams with only 2 losses and are 2-1 vs rpi top 50. They have proven A LOT more than Murray state with an rpi of 96, who is just 2-2 vs rpi top 100 and best win is against US. Now the Ohio valley, there is a shitty conference ( other than Belmont). So don't put creighton and murray state on the same level.
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What makes you think Creighton would run through the Big East? I would be impressed if they could even attain a .500 conference record here. If you don't think the Big East and MVC are 2 totally different animals then I question your basketball knowledge and general sanity. By the way, please tell me who they have beaten this year that really sends shockwaves through the country. Their BEST win is Wisconsin who was unranked then and is unranked now. I don't care if Wisconsin beat Indiana...I hate the whole "we beat this team who beat that team, so we must be good" logic. Almost every team would be great with that logic. Bottom line, they haven't been truly tested yet and they won't be until the tourney. I feel it's unfair to reward weak schedules with a very nice ranking. I mean, look at the other teams who were around them when they were #12 and look at the ones around them now at #21...I'd expect almost every other team close to their ranking to beat them. Beating up a bunch of marshmallow teams does not impress me...beating big ranked teams does especially in a power conference.
 
So now Creighton is down from #21 to #16 (#13 USA Poll) after beating juggernaut Bradley. I swear they have a love affair with them. I have never seen a team gain ground in polls so fast without having to beat anyone major. Look at the teams around them...Louisville, Miami, Ohio State, Cuse, etc. Want to know who is ranked worse? Cincy, G'Town, Pitt, etc. This is madness and it's not March. If we were Creighton in 2011 we would have been ranked #5 instead of #18 the way they get theirs inflated. Think about everything we had to do just to earn #18 that year...beat 4 top 10 teams and something like 6 or 9 ranked teams total. What has Creighton done to earn #13/#16? I don't know...can someone tell me?
 
Well, your wait time is less than two months to see if they are unworthy of the praise heaped upon them.
 
So now Creighton is down from #21 to #16 (#13 USA Poll) after beating juggernaut Bradley. I swear they have a love affair with them. I have never seen a team gain ground in polls so fast without having to beat anyone major. Look at the teams around them...Louisville, Miami, Ohio State, Cuse, etc. Want to know who is ranked worse? Cincy, G'Town, Pitt, etc. This is madness and it's not March. If we were Creighton in 2011 we would have been ranked #5 instead of #18 the way they get theirs inflated. Think about everything we had to do just to earn #18 that year...beat 4 top 10 teams and something like 6 or 9 ranked teams total. What has Creighton done to earn #13/#16? I don't know...can someone tell me?
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Here's the thing. While you are correct they haven't beaten anyone good, mostly because no top teams would schedule them - now win situation- , there are a number of other factors BOTH the coaches (#13) and the journos (#16) are taking into account, rightly or wrongly.

First, there were highly ranked pre season. They're a team that won 30 games and a game in the dance last year and returns most of that squad including a pre season all American. Where you start the season is important for ranking purposes, though not as much so as in gridiron. But once you establish position you're only going to go up as other rack up more losses than you.

Second, as mentioned above they have a pre season All American/POY candidate who's averaging 24 pts and 7.3 rebs per game. Having the best or one of the best players in the game does tend to help you're ranking probably due to the increased media exposure that player might bring.

Third, while as mentioned they haven't beaten any top teams they only had 1 loss outside the top 100 while beating 6 top 100 teams OOC, Wisc, AZ St, Cal and Akron are all pretty good squads with good records in and out of conference and Creighton had no problem with any of them. They only have one bad loss and it's on the road in conference. Almost everyone has one or more of those each year no matter the team, no matter the conference. IOW they've played the schedule they could make and performed very well.

RPI which takes into account all the things your going on about has them at 29 so maybe they're ranked a little higher than they deserve. They're a future C7 (please get a conference name soon!) team too, probably, so it's good to see them (continue) to have success.
 
So now Creighton is down from #21 to #16 (#13 USA Poll) after beating juggernaut Bradley. I swear they have a love affair with them. I have never seen a team gain ground in polls so fast without having to beat anyone major. Look at the teams around them...Louisville, Miami, Ohio State, Cuse, etc. Want to know who is ranked worse? Cincy, G'Town, Pitt, etc. This is madness and it's not March. If we were Creighton in 2011 we would have been ranked #5 instead of #18 the way they get theirs inflated. Think about everything we had to do just to earn #18 that year...beat 4 top 10 teams and something like 6 or 9 ranked teams total. What has Creighton done to earn #13/#16? I don't know...can someone tell me?
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Here's the thing. While you are correct they haven't beaten anyone good, mostly because no top teams would schedule them - now win situation- , there are a number of other factors BOTH the coaches (#13) and the journos (#16) are taking into account, rightly or wrongly.

First, there were highly ranked pre season. They're a team that won 30 games and a game in the dance last year and returns most of that squad including a pre season all American. Where you start the season is important for ranking purposes, though not as much so as in gridiron. But once you establish position you're only going to go up as other rack up more losses than you.

Second, as mentioned above they have a pre season All American/POY candidate who's averaging 24 pts and 7.3 rebs per game. Having the best or one of the best players in the game does tend to help you're ranking probably due to the increased media exposure that player might bring.

Third, while as mentioned they haven't beaten any top teams they only had 1 loss outside the top 100 while beating 6 top 100 teams OOC, Wisc, AZ St, Cal and Akron are all pretty good squads with good records in and out of conference and Creighton had no problem with any of them. They only have one bad loss and it's on the road in conference. Almost everyone has one or more of those each year no matter the team, no matter the conference. IOW they've played the schedule they could make and performed very well.

RPI which takes into account all the things your going on about has them at 29 so maybe they're ranked a little higher than they deserve. They're a future C7 (please get a conference name soon!) team too, probably, so it's good to see them (continue) to have success.
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Some good points I agree the preseason probably influenced it even if it's wrong. The fact that the best case you can make for them is beating 6 top 100 teams proves my point in a way though. It's a big stretch to make a real case for this team for being #13. I mean my god, we have beaten 2 ranked teams and we are not even considered a good Big East team. Our SOS is in the 20's I believe and will likely be like 15 or even 10 by the time we play Cuse, L'Ville, Marquette. Their SOS is over 100. I don't think no teams wanted to schedule them...you can always find SOMEONE who is ranked in a power conference. As I said, lots of good mid major teams are able to schedule these kinds of teams. Look at Memphis. No one wants a part of them, but they still always find a way to schedule ranked OOC opponents. McDermott is an absolute machine in the MVC. But then again pick any one of our players and they probably would be too. If McDermott really is the next "Larry Bird" like people are saying, then let's see him against REAL competition and continue to succeed. You don't gain respect by beating up a ton of midgets...you gain respect by slaying the giants. And yes they will probably join us in our conference, but who says they will be this good again? When McDermott leaves so does their ranking.
 
They haven 't lost to USF/UNCA or anyone like them and have only lost 3 times. You have to take the number and quality of losses into account as much as the wins. Their SOS is essentially the same as Memphis by the way.

MVC is a solid mid major conference so denigrating the competition and players is silly. They may not be the BE but their not the MAAC either. Their conference RPI is #9 right now. Only the Mountain West, A-10 are ranked higher in the mid majors. The conference regularly sends multiple teams to the dance.

Re post season Creighton's been in the dance 8 of the last 14 years and in the NIT in 4 of the other 6. So while McDermott has them playing at another level it's not like they came out of nowhere. Will they be a top 25 team regularly? Hard to say once they're in a major conference and able to recruit a higher level of player.

They're not Ohio State and probably not the 13th best team in the country but they're better than STJ and better than you give them credit for.
 
Well, down goes Creighton. By 20! To a team in their own division. You would think this definitely means bye bye top 25, but pollsters will somehow leave them in at #18 or something. They treat Creighton like a major team in a power conference giving them more breathing room for bad losses. They now have 3 losses in conference. We have 4 in the best conference in AMERICA. I know their overall is much better, but come on...you know Creighton doesn't belong. My point was 100% proven tonight. If you can slow down McDermott, Creighton turns into a cupcake. Same thing with Murray State if you can shut down Canaan.

Mark my words...they will still be up there in the rankings come Monday even after getting smashed by 20 to a MVC team.
 
Well, down goes Creighton. By 20! To a team in their own division. You would think this definitely means bye bye top 25, but pollsters will somehow leave them in at #18 or something. They treat Creighton like a major team in a power conference giving them more breathing room for bad losses. They now have 3 losses in conference. We have 4 in the best conference in AMERICA. I know their overall is much better, but come on...you know Creighton doesn't belong. My point was 100% proven tonight. If you can slow down McDermott, Creighton turns into a cupcake. Same thing with Murray State if you can shut down Canaan.

Mark my words...they will still be up there in the rankings come Monday even after getting smashed by 20 to a MVC team.
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We knew this was coming.....
 
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