Creighton, Tue. Jan. 23, 8:30p, FS1/970AM

Jeff Borzello
ESPN Staff Writer


Under Chris Mullin, St. John's is 3-21 in the month of January.

There is a very strong possibility of a winless February to go along with a winless January. I don't recall a time in modern St. John's basketball history where that has ever occurred. IMO, the fans have basically given up on this team and season. I count myself as one of those fans that are now ambivalent to whatever happens the rest of the season. To think it is still January.
Last night for the first time I stopped witnessing the unfolding disaster after the first half. To me, the outcome became obvious after the first 8 minutes of garbage offensive sets where players appeared to be improvising against a well prepared defense. The empty pockets of seats all over the gymnasium, especially the upper sections, against the third rated team in the Big East was an embarrassment. The consensus in the conversations was that they had witnessed enough and one has to wonder if the private conversations may involve an amicable separation of some, if not, the entire staff. In any other program and in any other conference, a winless season after the debacle of year one, regardless of the extenuating circumstances which left any success or failure to LUCK, would be considered gross mismanagement. I don't think St. John's has neither the leadership or will to start over. My humble opinion is that schools like DePaul and St. John's will be perennial bottom dwellers and sacrificial lambs so that the committed programs make it to the tournament every year. While some are pinning their hopes to next year's deeper bench it may too little too late. Expecting an unsigned 4 star player to turn around a program is a mid major mindset at best. Expecting a 6'9 transfer who floundered at USC to be a factor is wishful thinking. A 6-8 raw talent that should have been released from his scholarship will only take up a bench spot. Two 3 star players may or may not be ration worthy. That everyone returns again is questionable given the departures of 7 Mullin/Matt recruits in year two. The negative recruiting and unforgiving press in New York City may be hard to overcome. Every single domino would have to fall in the right place for an NCAA bid to be a possibility. Few programs can recover from 3 straight years of failure even if that failure was just bad luck.

The thing that kills me is when people bitch that others bitch about how bad we are. Saying oh no depth, it's only Mullins 3rd year etc!!!
Well, I say if people want to bitch then let them, I think with this program, they have that right, beginning with the Pitt scandal. Since that moment: We suffered through the Norm years, under Lavin we had 2 good NCAA years (but he was lazy and stopped recruiting), now Mullin. His first year was expected, last year was improvement and we were feeling good about this year saying atleast the NIT, but now we're back to year one? Nobody seen this coming at all, no one.

Maybe people bitch because they give a shit, maybe people are hungry for a good coach to finally lead SJU in the right direction so we can feel good about being a sju fan, and not an 0-9 last place team. Last time we won a ncaa game? 2001, 17 years ago??????? People would laugh at you if back in the 80s you told people that sju would go on a 17 year ncaa win drought.

So yeah, people have every freaking right to bitch if they so damn please.
 
No one on St.John's was around for any offensive rebounds last night, everyone transitions downcourt after a shot. On one occasion I observed Owens standing at the foul line with no effort to try to grab an offensive board. Maybe that's a good reason we had 1 offensive rebound all game.
Same old story take three pointers in the first half and drive to the basket in the second half. BTW, that's how a team gets to the foul line. In the beginning of the last two games we had a chance to jump ahead from the poor shooting of G'town and Creighton but chose to take our usual three point bombs.
Trimble has shown he will be around next year. Not playing scared anymore, even had a pull up jumper.
What I say, had to hold Foster, Thomas and Hegner. We are terrible getting around picks to prevent three point shots.
 
Since Ponds is being double teamed as he crosses half court it's Owens man who switches and leaves an opportunity for Owens to roll to the basket. How about we take advantage of this, especially since he can score close to the basket. Time for Mullin to confine Owens to 5 foot jumpers.
 
Beast, just curious, which of the 6 items I enumerated do you disagree with? I have no doubt that everyone on the staff (and you) have more BB acumen that I could or would ever have, but which one of the 6 do you dispute. And if you don't what do you attribute those items to? Not being argumentative, just curious for the sake of discussion.

(i) have us consistently permit 40+ 3 point shooting,

response: It's happening because if we don't play a help defense around the hoop we will get crushed by lack of size and strength

(ii) having our guys nowhere to be found in the lane and out of position to rebound

response: Agree. It's part laziness and part fatigue. Remember ponds was one of our best offensive rebounders before getting banged up. Simon is a good rebounder for a guard. Clark does not rebound. Ali hangs out from 20. Owens gets outmuscled. We don't have a nose for the ball

(iii) having guys like Owens and AliB hoist up 3's with impunity,

If you noticed with the game on the line vs Gtown, Ali showed atypical restraint for him. As I've said, Owens should shoot from out there only to draw defenders out and keep them honest while our guards drive to the hoop, unclogging the middle. Ali, well, he's not a good outside shooter. I don't mind all the 3's, I do mind the overall shot selection at times.

(iv) playing matador defense,

Response: Unfair. I think our guys have worked hard on defense and don't get beat off the dribble very often.

(v) lack of offensive sets,

Response: I think they have a schema and they work on it. I don't think it's that apparent to fans.

(vi) allowing Ponds to take 30' jumpers (one last night he threw up there was from the S in the St. John's floor logo), and more, is coaching (and discipline which is coaching).

Response: Ponds has to be more disciplined, but he's our best overall player and when he's feeling it, pours it in. I don't think he is the least bit of the problem when he put in 37 and 33 the past 2 games before last night's injury
 
[b . But to speculate that we run an NBA offense (as if most of us could tell the difference), speculate how practices are run, what St. Jean and other coaches know (I would bet St. Jean would be a basketball PhD to nearly every one of us) is insulting.

Beast, while it's likely no poster has the knowledge of St. Jean, the real comparison is between St. Jean and the other Big East coaches. If he truly draws up the plays and does a lot of the work usually assigned to head coaches, he must be compared to them. I have always been both a Mullin skeptic and Mullin supporter because the 2 are not mutually exclusive. Since college basketball is really about recruiting, my hope was that his plan to work the NYC area hard, combined with his HOF credentials would yield big time recruiting results. I never expected coaching on the same level as most of the Big East, because to do so would show no respect for the profession. Running a program is serious business. I am patient because it takes time to fix the mess that this program has been for most of the past 20 years. I have given him a pass this year because the Lovett loss was so damaging. But after some thought, if the only player you lost was not a pre-season all american, and not even first team Big East, your season shouldn't implode. Maybe Mullin has a bigger vision. In the end, The players are working hard but are being thrown to the wolves each night without enough weapons or reinforcements. Last night was much of the same.
 
Jeff Borzello
ESPN Staff Writer


Under Chris Mullin, St. John's is 3-21 in the month of January.

There is a very strong possibility of a winless February to go along with a winless January. I don't recall a time in modern St. John's basketball history where that has ever occurred. IMO, the fans have basically given up on this team and season. I count myself as one of those fans that are now ambivalent to whatever happens the rest of the season. To think it is still January.
Last night for the first time I stopped witnessing the unfolding disaster after the first half. To me, the outcome became obvious after the first 8 minutes of garbage offensive sets where players appeared to be improvising against a well prepared defense. The empty pockets of seats all over the gymnasium, especially the upper sections, against the third rated team in the Big East was an embarrassment. The consensus in the conversations was that they had witnessed enough and one has to wonder if the private conversations may involve an amicable separation of some, if not, the entire staff. In any other program and in any other conference, a winless season after the debacle of year one, regardless of the extenuating circumstances which left any success or failure to LUCK, would be considered gross mismanagement. I don't think St. John's has neither the leadership or will to start over. My humble opinion is that schools like DePaul and St. John's will be perennial bottom dwellers and sacrificial lambs so that the committed programs make it to the tournament every year. While some are pinning their hopes to next year's deeper bench it may too little too late. Expecting an unsigned 4 star player to turn around a program is a mid major mindset at best. Expecting a 6'9 transfer who floundered at USC to be a factor is wishful thinking. A 6-8 raw talent that should have been released from his scholarship will only take up a bench spot. Two 3 star players may or may not be ration worthy. That everyone returns again is questionable given the departures of 7 Mullin/Matt recruits in year two. The negative recruiting and unforgiving press in New York City may be hard to overcome. Every single domino would have to fall in the right place for an NCAA bid to be a possibility. Few programs can recover from 3 straight years of failure even if that failure was just bad luck.

The thing that kills me is when people bitch that others bitch about how bad we are. Saying oh no depth, it's only Mullins 3rd year etc!!!
Well, I say if people want to bitch then let them, I think with this program, they have that right, beginning with the Pitt scandal. Since that moment: We suffered through the Norm years, under Lavin we had 2 good NCAA years (but he was lazy and stopped recruiting), now Mullin. His first year was expected, last year was improvement and we were feeling good about this year saying atleast the NIT, but now we're back to year one? Nobody seen this coming at all, no one.

Maybe people bitch because they give a shit, maybe people are hungry for a good coach to finally lead SJU in the right direction so we can feel good about being a sju fan, and not an 0-9 last place team. Last time we won a ncaa game? 2001, 17 years ago??????? People would laugh at you if back in the 80s you told people that sju would go on a 17 year ncaa win drought.

So yeah, people have every freaking right to bitch if they so damn please.

You're a good poster and a passionate fan, so don't feel under attack. You can argue about why the roster is so thin - but remember we started with nothing and Mullin recruited over some of the bodies that fled for more playing time elsewhere. That's probably a good thing that we brought in better talent. Starting this year there jsut wasn't enough depth to ward off a serious injury.

God as coach couldn't win with this team, so I don't see the point of nitpicking. With the injury, Mullin gets a mulligan - maybe a mullingan.
 
Jeff Borzello
ESPN Staff Writer


Under Chris Mullin, St. John's is 3-21 in the month of January.

There is a very strong possibility of a winless February to go along with a winless January. I don't recall a time in modern St. John's basketball history where that has ever occurred. IMO, the fans have basically given up on this team and season. I count myself as one of those fans that are now ambivalent to whatever happens the rest of the season. To think it is still January.
Last night for the first time I stopped witnessing the unfolding disaster after the first half. To me, the outcome became obvious after the first 8 minutes of garbage offensive sets where players appeared to be improvising against a well prepared defense. The empty pockets of seats all over the gymnasium, especially the upper sections, against the third rated team in the Big East was an embarrassment. The consensus in the conversations was that they had witnessed enough and one has to wonder if the private conversations may involve an amicable separation of some, if not, the entire staff. In any other program and in any other conference, a winless season after the debacle of year one, regardless of the extenuating circumstances which left any success or failure to LUCK, would be considered gross mismanagement. I don't think St. John's has neither the leadership or will to start over. My humble opinion is that schools like DePaul and St. John's will be perennial bottom dwellers and sacrificial lambs so that the committed programs make it to the tournament every year. While some are pinning their hopes to next year's deeper bench it may too little too late. Expecting an unsigned 4 star player to turn around a program is a mid major mindset at best. Expecting a 6'9 transfer who floundered at USC to be a factor is wishful thinking. A 6-8 raw talent that should have been released from his scholarship will only take up a bench spot. Two 3 star players may or may not be ration worthy. That everyone returns again is questionable given the departures of 7 Mullin/Matt recruits in year two. The negative recruiting and unforgiving press in New York City may be hard to overcome. Every single domino would have to fall in the right place for an NCAA bid to be a possibility. Few programs can recover from 3 straight years of failure even if that failure was just bad luck.

Things can change rapidly in sports. Look at the record of the UCF Football team the last five years -

2013 12-1
2014 9-4
2015 0-12
2016 6-7
2017 13-0

 
Beast:

(i) We have not defended the 3 for at least 3 years. It's not just this year and being undermanned. It's a philosophy or approach, or failure to execute. That experiment has failed. And, if we forced more 2's maybe we could have won a few of the close ones.

(iv) The guys play very hard, no doubt. But, they get tired and on many occasions let up pretty easy baskets at the hoop.

(v) I'm one of those who don't see it.

(vi) Agreed, Ponds has to be given latitude but I think he's getting frustrated and his shot selection has suffered. There have been a few he's taken recently (including the one last night I alluded to) that were silly. But he is far from the biggest problem.

Fair enough on the rest.
 
Jeff Borzello
ESPN Staff Writer


Under Chris Mullin, St. John's is 3-21 in the month of January.

There is a very strong possibility of a winless February to go along with a winless January. I don't recall a time in modern St. John's basketball history where that has ever occurred. IMO, the fans have basically given up on this team and season. I count myself as one of those fans that are now ambivalent to whatever happens the rest of the season. To think it is still January.
Last night for the first time I stopped witnessing the unfolding disaster after the first half. To me, the outcome became obvious after the first 8 minutes of garbage offensive sets where players appeared to be improvising against a well prepared defense. The empty pockets of seats all over the gymnasium, especially the upper sections, against the third rated team in the Big East was an embarrassment. The consensus in the conversations was that they had witnessed enough and one has to wonder if the private conversations may involve an amicable separation of some, if not, the entire staff. In any other program and in any other conference, a winless season after the debacle of year one, regardless of the extenuating circumstances which left any success or failure to LUCK, would be considered gross mismanagement. I don't think St. John's has neither the leadership or will to start over. My humble opinion is that schools like DePaul and St. John's will be perennial bottom dwellers and sacrificial lambs so that the committed programs make it to the tournament every year. While some are pinning their hopes to next year's deeper bench it may too little too late. Expecting an unsigned 4 star player to turn around a program is a mid major mindset at best. Expecting a 6'9 transfer who floundered at USC to be a factor is wishful thinking. A 6-8 raw talent that should have been released from his scholarship will only take up a bench spot. Two 3 star players may or may not be ration worthy. That everyone returns again is questionable given the departures of 7 Mullin/Matt recruits in year two. The negative recruiting and unforgiving press in New York City may be hard to overcome. Every single domino would have to fall in the right place for an NCAA bid to be a possibility. Few programs can recover from 3 straight years of failure even if that failure was just bad luck.

Things can change rapidly in sports. Look at the record of the UCF Football team the last five years -

2013 12-1
2014 9-4
2015 0-12
2016 6-7
2017 13-0

Things can rapidly change in sports for a vary of reasons.

The coach (Scott Frost) came in and cleaned up UCF, and took a team that was 0-12 (the season before he arrived) to 6-7 in his first season and to 13-0 in his second season.
 
Mullin cannot be blamed for LoVett's 'loss'. I suppose fingers can be pointed at Chris for...? What player departures: Sima? Williams? Ellison? Mussina? Williams may be a head case and Mussina was hell-bent to play professionally in Italy. Sima's departure always mystified me, and Ellison's grumbling about PT might have been better assuaged. Of the two, I think we really miss Sima the most--since Trimble, to me, is basically Ellison. And we can always gripe about faltering in the recruiting wars.
But, it is what it is. We look 'deep' for next year--no, not as in ready for Big East battles from day one--but (barring defections) we probably go 8 - 9 deep next year from starters to reliable in-game contributions: Ponds, Simon, Dixon, Clark, Owens starting, with Keita, Brooks, G. Williams, Yakwe(?), Trimble, Roberts, Diakite, capable of contributing to the team in varying degrees--to be determined.
Let's root for our hard-playing and gritty team this year and look forward to better results in the 2018-19 Season.
 
I've been taking things too seriously and apologize to my fellow posters and fans for all the negativity, especially today's post. I will try to post a little less and be more understanding of the current situation which obviously is not all of the staff's fault. Remember that mine is just one old man's opinion and remember what they say of opinions. Last night was a little hard on me as I wanted to win at home, in front of Lou, so bad. Keep the faith!
 
Being a member of the class of 62 I have probably endured a little more joy than a class of 72 member. We are both hard core fans that the program needs more of. Immediately after the game we are fit to be tied and know exactly how we could have made better decisions than the coaching staff.
This season is the worst in SJU history other than the Jarvis/ Pittsburgh season I feel because we felt we had a team capable of a possible tournament bid to one possibly without a league win because of the staff's between seasons decision rather than in game stratagies. To lose one important player and end up with this travesty is unacceptable.
Last night we were livid. By tomorrow we are hoping for a very unlikely win Sat. Six weeks to go and we will all be feeling that next year will be different and will be planing to attend the games.
 
I've been taking things too seriously and apologize to my fellow posters and fans for all the negativity, especially today's post. I will try to post a little less and be more understanding of the current situation which obviously is not all of the staff's fault. Remember that mine is just one old man's opinion and remember what they say of opinions. Last night was a little hard on me as I wanted to win at home, in front of Lou, so bad. Keep the faith!
72 you sound a little beaten down. Don't let the libtards blaming of old white men for everything get you down. ;) :D Keep the faith!
 
I've been taking things too seriously and apologize to my fellow posters and fans for all the negativity, especially today's post. I will try to post a little less and be more understanding of the current situation which obviously is not all of the staff's fault. Remember that mine is just one old man's opinion and remember what they say of opinions. Last night was a little hard on me as I wanted to win at home, in front of Lou, so bad. Keep the faith!
72 you sound a little beaten down. Don't let the libtards blaming of old white men for everything get you down. ;) :D Keep the faith!

I just think I was too harsh with my last post instead of just being sarcastic. That's when I knew I had to step back a bit and let the younger fans go at it. It's been like watching a family member suffer. After all our players are just kids who, like every one of us, will make mistakes both in life and the game they love. One thing that I have no doubt of is how much Chris Mullin loves his school and watching him lose hurts all of us.
 
Being a member of the class of 62 I have probably endured a little more joy than a class of 72 member. We are both hard core fans that the program needs more of. Immediately after the game we are fit to be tied and know exactly how we could have made better decisions than the coaching staff.
This season is the worst in SJU history other than the Jarvis/ Pittsburgh season I feel because we felt we had a team capable of a possible tournament bid to one possibly without a league win because of the staff's between seasons decision rather than in game stratagies. To lose one important player and end up with this travesty is unacceptable.
Last night we were livid. By tomorrow we are hoping for a very unlikely win Sat. Six weeks to go and we will all be feeling that next year will be different and will be planing to attend the games.

At least I feel confident that we won't have to forfeit any game.
 
Jeff Borzello
ESPN Staff Writer


Under Chris Mullin, St. John's is 3-21 in the month of January.

There is a very strong possibility of a winless February to go along with a winless January. I don't recall a time in modern St. John's basketball history where that has ever occurred. IMO, the fans have basically given up on this team and season. I count myself as one of those fans that are now ambivalent to whatever happens the rest of the season. To think it is still January.
Last night for the first time I stopped witnessing the unfolding disaster after the first half. To me, the outcome became obvious after the first 8 minutes of garbage offensive sets where players appeared to be improvising against a well prepared defense. The empty pockets of seats all over the gymnasium, especially the upper sections, against the third rated team in the Big East was an embarrassment. The consensus in the conversations was that they had witnessed enough and one has to wonder if the private conversations may involve an amicable separation of some, if not, the entire staff. In any other program and in any other conference, a winless season after the debacle of year one, regardless of the extenuating circumstances which left any success or failure to LUCK, would be considered gross mismanagement. I don't think St. John's has neither the leadership or will to start over. My humble opinion is that schools like DePaul and St. John's will be perennial bottom dwellers and sacrificial lambs so that the committed programs make it to the tournament every year. While some are pinning their hopes to next year's deeper bench it may too little too late. Expecting an unsigned 4 star player to turn around a program is a mid major mindset at best. Expecting a 6'9 transfer who floundered at USC to be a factor is wishful thinking. A 6-8 raw talent that should have been released from his scholarship will only take up a bench spot. Two 3 star players may or may not be ration worthy. That everyone returns again is questionable given the departures of 7 Mullin/Matt recruits in year two. The negative recruiting and unforgiving press in New York City may be hard to overcome. Every single domino would have to fall in the right place for an NCAA bid to be a possibility. Few programs can recover from 3 straight years of failure even if that failure was just bad luck.

The thing that kills me is when people bitch that others bitch about how bad we are. Saying oh no depth, it's only Mullins 3rd year etc!!!
Well, I say if people want to bitch then let them, I think with this program, they have that right, beginning with the Pitt scandal. Since that moment: We suffered through the Norm years, under Lavin we had 2 good NCAA years (but he was lazy and stopped recruiting), now Mullin. His first year was expected, last year was improvement and we were feeling good about this year saying atleast the NIT, but now we're back to year one? Nobody seen this coming at all, no one.

Maybe people bitch because they give a shit, maybe people are hungry for a good coach to finally lead SJU in the right direction so we can feel good about being a sju fan, and not an 0-9 last place team. Last time we won a ncaa game? 2001, 17 years ago??????? People would laugh at you if back in the 80s you told people that sju would go on a 17 year ncaa win drought.

So yeah, people have every freaking right to bitch if they so damn please.

You're a good poster and a passionate fan, so don't feel under attack. You can argue about why the roster is so thin - but remember we started with nothing and Mullin recruited over some of the bodies that fled for more playing time elsewhere. That's probably a good thing that we brought in better talent. Starting this year there jsut wasn't enough depth to ward off a serious injury.

God as coach couldn't win with this team, so I don't see the point of nitpicking. With the injury, Mullin gets a mulligan - maybe a mullingan.

Beast, I have a question.

If we aren't good next year, will the excuse be oh we have 6 new guys, they need time to gel with a guys who have here and they gotta learn the system? Because that's the thing with SJU, THERE'S ALWAYS AN EXCUSE.
Excuses gets old after 17yrs of nothing.
NEXT YEAR IT'S TIME TO PUT UP OR SHUT UP FOR MULLIN.
 
This season is the worst in SJU history other than the Jarvis/ Pittsburgh season I feel because we felt we had a team capable of a possible tournament bid to one possibly without a league win because of the staff's between seasons decision rather than in game stratagies. To lose one important player and end up with this travesty is unacceptable.

I'd go with NIT, but still that would be improvment from last year. I thought we had a successful ooc part of the schedule getting 10 wins and no slip ups, I thought we could get another 9-10wins in conf, and definitely atleast get to the nit.
Well 9 games into the conf we're 0 fer, yep it's my fault for feeling good about sju, every time you do, they stick a knife in your back and you'll feel crushed again, and again, and again.
 
Guess we can assume there is bad blood between staff/team and Lovett. Unless he is no longer at school, why wouldn’t he be at games.

LoVett tweeted positive sentiments during the Georgetown game. If there is bad blood, it appears to be a recent development.
Can’t see any other reason he wouldn’t be at home games unless he has left school.
 
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