Creighton, Tue. Jan. 23, 8:30p, FS1/970AM
- Thread starter Knight
- Start date
The "no Big East talent" crap is just that. It isn't the talent, it is the lack of depth and lack of game plan or adjustments. I actually think the staff has done a good job cherry picking transfers who have BE talent to upgrade the talent level here. But, the system seems not to optimize what we have. There are certainly times when individual players make mistakes and the team seems not to be cohesive, but, the players themselves have each shown that they can play at this level. But they tire and they also seem not to be receiving the best coaching. It seems that some here want these guys to ALL be top 10 BE players. But that's silly. All of the top 5 guys are clearly BE talent, and many would start on many teams. The jury is out on Trimble as a freshman, but I have seen progress by him as he's gotten more PT and getting more comfortable. Plays decent defense, can hit the open shot, and he's also rebounded some.
The flaws of this team will hopefully be rectified in the off season with the addition of a new xs and os guy on staff, as well as the addition of the new recruits. Next year, the team could be a less small guard oriented team, with more size and bulk, if the staff wants it to be. The rebounding deficits should be reduced or eliminated next year and hopefully the staff will re-orient the defense to condition the kids to position and crash the boards. And, with the better depth and varied offense, less pressure will be on Ponds and the other guards returning so that they get better and more open looks.
The flaws of this team will hopefully be rectified in the off season with the addition of a new xs and os guy on staff, as well as the addition of the new recruits. Next year, the team could be a less small guard oriented team, with more size and bulk, if the staff wants it to be. The rebounding deficits should be reduced or eliminated next year and hopefully the staff will re-orient the defense to condition the kids to position and crash the boards. And, with the better depth and varied offense, less pressure will be on Ponds and the other guards returning so that they get better and more open looks.
Credit to these kids. It's brutal, but 7 of 11 losses to almost certain tournament teams, 6 of those by single digits, and the one that wasn't was by 12 to ASU. 10 of the 11 without Lovett. Injuries happen, but with Lovett it's not too much of a a stretch to think SJU is at 14-7 (4-5) right now. Difficult to be critical of the effort from the team not mailing these games in, even on a 2 day turnaround after a double OT loss and playing a much more balanced and seasoned team.
Especially when they have a coaching staff that seems intent on giving up 40+% from 3 almost every game
Especially when they have a coaching staff that seems intent on giving up 40+% from 3 almost every game
Man it’s lonely at the bottom. McDermott is a great skillful coach and I can see how his son is in the NBA based on X’s and O’s. Ok to be critical of the kids but let’s be careful here not to bash them they are playing hard. For the most part the games have been competitive just not able to close the gap. Team is also chucking up many low percentage shots. Mullin may need to turn off that green light for some players. Also not sure the nba style play implemented is working. I saw 3 plays last night were the ball handler either drove through the lane past all the players or just broke the ankles of their defender to go in for an easy lay up. These small things could have been the difference. I wouldn’t even try to improve our horrendous shot percentage at this stage and instead start focusing on some real hard defense. I think defense is easier to improve vs three pointers. We are not a team that will win by shooting the lights out on anyone.
It’s apparent the Mullin can’t Coach militia has taken over redmen.con... no one really wants to address the fact that this was recognized as a flawed roster , even before the season started . Without LoVett is declines even further but, it seems the Amateur Cosches could teach Defense , Rebounding , etc and make it all better . Clark played less than 5 minutes , before taking his customary first half seat on the bench . Wonder why Izzo let him go ? Don’t wonder too long . He is a one trick Pony snd that Pony did not show up last night . Playing short handed is the reason for the season results .
ManhattAn1
Active member
You do realize as head coach especially in year 3 you should have depth. That is part of coaching. Instead he decided to have 3 guys sit out and leave a scholarship open.
My favorite part of the evening was when they called a time out with 38 seconds left i the second half and Mullin looks around who called timeout and the ref pointed at St. Jean. The coaching staff looks so disjointed its just a bad situation. That's what happens when you rely on a 27 year old to do everything. Whereas you look at Creighton you know McDermott is in charge and he is a damn good coach. Consistently down the stretch he would run plays where Foster would get a 1 on 1 with Owens. Mullin had nothing to counter and that cost us the game.
My favorite part of the evening was when they called a time out with 38 seconds left i the second half and Mullin looks around who called timeout and the ref pointed at St. Jean. The coaching staff looks so disjointed its just a bad situation. That's what happens when you rely on a 27 year old to do everything. Whereas you look at Creighton you know McDermott is in charge and he is a damn good coach. Consistently down the stretch he would run plays where Foster would get a 1 on 1 with Owens. Mullin had nothing to counter and that cost us the game.
SLY, I agree being outmanned is the biggest part, but to (i) have us consistently permit 40+ 3 point shooting, (ii) having our guys nowhere to be found in the lane and out of position to rebound, (iii) having guys like Owens and AliB hoist up 3's with impunity, (iv) playing matador defense, (v) lack of offensive sets, (vi) allowing Ponds to take 30' jumpers (one last night he threw up there was from the S in the St. John's floor logo), and more, is coaching (and discipline which is coaching).
Absolutely, the lack of depth and a quality bench exacerbates the flaws that exist, but the issues with the technical aspects of the game are apparent.
I think there is merit to the "treat them like pros" and "use of a pro style offense" references that have been made. The college game (especially with a limited roster) requires more discipline and organization to optimize your talent. We have talent here, just in limited qualities, and as outlined above, is not optimized.
I support Mullin, but think that a stronger x and o staff is needed to supplement his presence. I won't ever want him to be replaced against his volition. But, it is not beneficial to the program to be a Kool Aid drinker and not recognize flaws that should be and can be corrected.
Absolutely, the lack of depth and a quality bench exacerbates the flaws that exist, but the issues with the technical aspects of the game are apparent.
I think there is merit to the "treat them like pros" and "use of a pro style offense" references that have been made. The college game (especially with a limited roster) requires more discipline and organization to optimize your talent. We have talent here, just in limited qualities, and as outlined above, is not optimized.
I support Mullin, but think that a stronger x and o staff is needed to supplement his presence. I won't ever want him to be replaced against his volition. But, it is not beneficial to the program to be a Kool Aid drinker and not recognize flaws that should be and can be corrected.
SLY, I agree being outmanned is the biggest part, but to (i) have us consistently permit 40+ 3 point shooting, (ii) having our guys nowhere to be found in the lane and out of position to rebound, (iii) having guys like Owens and AliB hoist up 3's with impunity, (iv) playing matador defense, (v) lack of offensive sets, (vi) allowing Ponds to take 30' jumpers (one last night he threw up there was from the S in the St. John's floor logo), and more, is coaching (and discipline which is coaching).
Absolutely, the lack of depth and a quality bench exacerbates the flaws that exist, but the issues with the technical aspects of the game are apparent.
I think there is merit to the "treat them like pros" and "use of a pro style offense" references that have been made. The college game (especially with a limited roster) requires more discipline and organization to optimize your talent. We have talent here, just in limited qualities, and as outlined above, is not optimized.
I support Mullin, but think that a stronger x and o staff is needed to supplement his presence. I won't ever want him to be replaced against his volition. But, it is not beneficial to the program to be a Kool Aid drinker and not recognize flaws that should be and can be corrected.
Great post - +1000
Absolutely, the lack of depth and a quality bench exacerbates the flaws that exist, but the issues with the technical aspects of the game are apparent.
I think there is merit to the "treat them like pros" and "use of a pro style offense" references that have been made. The college game (especially with a limited roster) requires more discipline and organization to optimize your talent. We have talent here, just in limited qualities, and as outlined above, is not optimized.
I support Mullin, but think that a stronger x and o staff is needed to supplement his presence. I won't ever want him to be replaced against his volition. But, it is not beneficial to the program to be a Kool Aid drinker and not recognize flaws that should be and can be corrected.
Great post - +1000
montyaloofah
Active member
Justin Simon played really well last night. He is probably the lone bright spot all year. He was doing all he can to lead the team back. He responds well to being the primary ball handler and is active all around. His shot is not the prettiest but it's been finding it's way in. He can really emerge as the team leader for next year
Class of 72
Active member
There is a very strong possibility of a winless February to go along with a winless January. I don't recall a time in modern St. John's basketball history where that has ever occurred. IMO, the fans have basically given up on this team and season. I count myself as one of those fans that are now ambivalent to whatever happens the rest of the season. To think it is still January.
Last night for the first time I stopped witnessing the unfolding disaster after the first half. To me, the outcome became obvious after the first 8 minutes of garbage offensive sets where players appeared to be improvising against a well prepared defense. The empty pockets of seats all over the gymnasium, especially the upper sections, against the third rated team in the Big East was an embarrassment. The consensus in the conversations was that they had witnessed enough and one has to wonder if the private conversations may involve an amicable separation of some, if not, the entire staff. In any other program and in any other conference, a winless season after the debacle of year one, regardless of the extenuating circumstances which left any success or failure to LUCK, would be considered gross mismanagement. I don't think St. John's has neither the leadership or will to start over. My humble opinion is that schools like DePaul and St. John's will be perennial bottom dwellers and sacrificial lambs so that the committed programs make it to the tournament every year. While some are pinning their hopes to next year's deeper bench it may too little too late. Expecting an unsigned 4 star player to turn around a program is a mid major mindset at best. Expecting a 6'9 transfer who floundered at USC to be a factor is wishful thinking. A 6-8 raw talent that should have been released from his scholarship will only take up a bench spot. Two 3 star players may or may not be ration worthy. That everyone returns again is questionable given the departures of 7 Mullin/Matt recruits in year two. The negative recruiting and unforgiving press in New York City may be hard to overcome. Every single domino would have to fall in the right place for an NCAA bid to be a possibility. Few programs can recover from 3 straight years of failure even if that failure was just bad luck.
Storm Tracker
Well-known member
uggh thats one of the most depressing posts ive ever read on this site. and its very accurate
beast of the east
Active member
Basketball is a great game. Some people think stats don't lie, and they don't. What they don't tell is the bigger story.
When you at full strength are still a team with one legitimate starting big forward (not a center), their strategy that was largely effective in the OOC schedule was to help out down low, with guards doubling down on the ball, and cheating towards the lane. The result was a ton of steals and turnovers created. It's very effective when your opposition is not as talented as BE teams. In the BE, a post player can handle the pressure in traffic a little better, and the other 3 or 4 players can flash to open spots on the permeter, get there shots off faster, and with more accuracy.
At this level, when opposing offenses to spread the floor, we are either going to get beat inside with no help, or burned by threes once guards help inside.
At full strength, 3 talented guards can create havoc for the opposition. At full strength we have 5 starters on the floor who can make threes. Of course, Owens should be tamed to use it just to keep defenses honest when he spots up outside, forcing a big to guard him out there.
Our guys are making mistakes. They aren't pros. We sometimes aren't patient to work for the best shot and hoist up lower percentage shots with plenty of clock left. I'd agree those are teachable moments. I would say though, that Owens shooting 3's reminds me vaguely of Don Nelson allowing Manute Bol to shoot from out there (he wasn't horrible as you would think). It's all about spreading the floor to Mullin, and he probably isn't wrong.
It all comes down to know-nothings (us, not you in particular) trying to provide Xs and Os advice based on our TV, schoolyard, rec league, or at most HS experience. A broken clock is right twice a day, so we aren't always wrong. But to speculate that we run an NBA offense (as if most of us could tell the difference), speculate how practices are run, what St. Jean and other coaches know (I would bet St. Jean would be a basketball PhD to nearly every one of us) is insulting.
This type of frustration points to one of our biggest problems as a school. A fan base that doesn't fully support the team for a number of reasons, and uses social media to tear down players and coaches. To think no one reads this stuff is crazy.
Unfortunately it's like watching the same movie over and over. Opposition gets 50 per cent more rebounds, opposition knows Ponds is only scoring threat and team gets gassed in final five minutes.
There is no solution. I recall posting some five games ago they will shoot over forty per cent from three one night and win that game and only that game.
Well maybe not. It now appears they are close to shutting it down and who could blame them? A couple of these next road games could be disasters.
There is no solution. I recall posting some five games ago they will shoot over forty per cent from three one night and win that game and only that game.
Well maybe not. It now appears they are close to shutting it down and who could blame them? A couple of these next road games could be disasters.
Beast, just curious, which of the 6 items I enumerated do you disagree with? I have no doubt that everyone on the staff (and you) have more BB acumen that I could or would ever have, but which one of the 6 do you dispute. And if you don't what do you attribute those items to? Not being argumentative, just curious for the sake of discussion.
Class of 72
Active member
"This type of frustration points to one of our biggest problems as a school. A fan base that doesn't fully support the team for a number of reasons, and uses social media to tear down players and coaches. To think no one reads this stuff is crazy."
The fan base is not playing the games or coaching the team. They are the paying customers to a bad show that keeps re-running the same script. When you state "to think no one reads this stuff is crazy." is like saying we should not comment publicly about our dirty laundry.
Our biggest problems as a school? The biggest problem is addressing the systemic institutional mismanagement and complicity to maintain the status quo both on the educational side and especially on the basketball side, its only viable sport and face of the university.