As far as I'm concerned, top 15 in country, developed Obekpa, turned Harrison around, got this team to finally gel.....although it's still early, sign him long term. Inking him long term, along with # 15 ranking should start to convince some of these recruits we are here to stay. Thoughts?
Coach Lav's contract
- Thread starter cappy105
- Start date
Stability.
He offers that with an extension, and all things considered, what other options are there? Considering how unraveled this program has been since Louie left, and all that has happened to the game in general in the past two decades, why not? At least he values this job more than say Fran did, and is more successful already then Norm, Mahoney, and to me, even Jarvis, who had some good years/teams, but also left a lot of issues behind.
He's in the mix for high level recruits, and with this class that is outgoing, we're finally seeing real improvement.
This ain't 85 anymore, and I for one don't take Lav for granted. He's great socially and with media/recruits, he represents the program well, and is not afraid to make decisions to hurt the team when faced with disciplinary-like scenarios.
Three of this year's seniors already have their degrees (I swear this was mentioned in the game against Long Beach on tv), he may have salvaged D'Lo's basketball career, has made progress with Obepka and Sir Dom (I mean, the redshirt threat on a team that was already lacking depth--risky but well played). He's handling Sheed as well as could be expected? Don't know on that one, but again, not afraid to make the kid a sixth man off the bench and is right to do so.
I think we sometimes forget how irrelevant this program has become over the years....sorry, but it's true. At this point, I'd rather let him continue to build what he has started here and just go with it. I know many are worried about next year and lack of recruits...and many will mention all of the transfers and such. I expect a thousand posts to follow detailing his issues.
And I can respect those opinions.
But I can totally take Lav for the long haul to be honest, and it would be nice to have that again. I agree that how this year plays out might be the deciding factor, anything less than a tourney bid would mean a collapse and perhaps it would make sense to move on. But Lav has been class since being here, been through a lot, and is entertaining in his happy-and-peppy ways. The fear that he would become too relaxed if signed to a long deal is understandable as well, but again, I think the program, as a whole, has gone in the right direction since his arrival. And I think it would matter to him enough to build a legit legacy here that it wouldn't just crumble if extension given.
I miss the thread with his buddhistical quotes by the way...
I just hope this thread doesn't get too apocalyptic. I've been following this team since Malik/Jackson/etc. In that time, two elite 8s, and honestly, not a ton else to write home about...if anything, some of their tourney exits were weak. No one wants to reach the tourney once every four years...but this program to me was bordering on MAAC level under norm, with CBI appearances for cryin' out loud.
Unless we collapse and fail to make tourney, sign him up and let him do his thing. My worthless take.
Happy New Year to all of you by the way. I know I don't post nearly as much as others, am not alumni, etc., but this is about the only message board I've ever contributed my bs to and return to year after year. I've grown to love how neurotic and psycho most of you are...because you care about this program, and not many in this city do anymore...here's hoping stability with Lav can address that as well.
Peace.
He offers that with an extension, and all things considered, what other options are there? Considering how unraveled this program has been since Louie left, and all that has happened to the game in general in the past two decades, why not? At least he values this job more than say Fran did, and is more successful already then Norm, Mahoney, and to me, even Jarvis, who had some good years/teams, but also left a lot of issues behind.
He's in the mix for high level recruits, and with this class that is outgoing, we're finally seeing real improvement.
This ain't 85 anymore, and I for one don't take Lav for granted. He's great socially and with media/recruits, he represents the program well, and is not afraid to make decisions to hurt the team when faced with disciplinary-like scenarios.
Three of this year's seniors already have their degrees (I swear this was mentioned in the game against Long Beach on tv), he may have salvaged D'Lo's basketball career, has made progress with Obepka and Sir Dom (I mean, the redshirt threat on a team that was already lacking depth--risky but well played). He's handling Sheed as well as could be expected? Don't know on that one, but again, not afraid to make the kid a sixth man off the bench and is right to do so.
I think we sometimes forget how irrelevant this program has become over the years....sorry, but it's true. At this point, I'd rather let him continue to build what he has started here and just go with it. I know many are worried about next year and lack of recruits...and many will mention all of the transfers and such. I expect a thousand posts to follow detailing his issues.
And I can respect those opinions.
But I can totally take Lav for the long haul to be honest, and it would be nice to have that again. I agree that how this year plays out might be the deciding factor, anything less than a tourney bid would mean a collapse and perhaps it would make sense to move on. But Lav has been class since being here, been through a lot, and is entertaining in his happy-and-peppy ways. The fear that he would become too relaxed if signed to a long deal is understandable as well, but again, I think the program, as a whole, has gone in the right direction since his arrival. And I think it would matter to him enough to build a legit legacy here that it wouldn't just crumble if extension given.
I miss the thread with his buddhistical quotes by the way...
I just hope this thread doesn't get too apocalyptic. I've been following this team since Malik/Jackson/etc. In that time, two elite 8s, and honestly, not a ton else to write home about...if anything, some of their tourney exits were weak. No one wants to reach the tourney once every four years...but this program to me was bordering on MAAC level under norm, with CBI appearances for cryin' out loud.
Unless we collapse and fail to make tourney, sign him up and let him do his thing. My worthless take.
Happy New Year to all of you by the way. I know I don't post nearly as much as others, am not alumni, etc., but this is about the only message board I've ever contributed my bs to and return to year after year. I've grown to love how neurotic and psycho most of you are...because you care about this program, and not many in this city do anymore...here's hoping stability with Lav can address that as well.
Peace.
redfan259999888
Active member
I seen these extension posts from both sides, but been avoiding them. Really don't want to have a both and forth on it. This season has been to fun to talk about next year.
Here's my take on this. My opinion on this matter.
Want to give Lavin a one year deal? I'm fine with that, as long as we get in the NCAA.
I'm ok with rewarding him with a succesful season, but he sure as hell better recruit next season, because they won't have this type of season next year.
A long term deal, why? If chris and Jordan leave then we'll be the youngest team again in his 6th year. Are you ok with that? Want to go through the pain and frustration of losing for a few seasons after this? I certainly don't. Doesn't the school and fans deserve better then being good once every four years. I just don't understand the thinking that we should give him a long term contract, I his last impact recruit was two years ago.
Lastly, Hey I'll be ok with giving him a long term contract, as long as he gets some really good recruits. Maybe a 4year extension.
Then we would all be happy. Winning brings recruits right? Well we're winning.
Go get them Steve.
Lavin or not, we will still be starting fresh roster-wise next year, especially if jordan and Obekpa bolt. They should probably extend Lavin for a good while. Personally I haven't seen our administration do a lot of things right with respect to basketball. Lavin provides stability and he can recruit, even though it has been a little tough as of late. He should be extended as I don't see us landing somebody better.
Most felt he needed to make the NCAA tournament and assemble a good 2015 class in order to secure an extension.
I am loving the start to this season and I think these seniors are great. That said, I am not ready to adjust the criteria. Keep in mind, we have played just one ranked team and lost. I happen to think this could be a very special season. However, this is not the time to fall in love and commit to an underachieving coaching.
Personally, I would like to make a change. I believe the flaws that produced the past three years of sub-par performance (and the unforgivable 2014 recruiting class) will only return to bite us again.
I am loving the start to this season and I think these seniors are great. That said, I am not ready to adjust the criteria. Keep in mind, we have played just one ranked team and lost. I happen to think this could be a very special season. However, this is not the time to fall in love and commit to an underachieving coaching.
Personally, I would like to make a change. I believe the flaws that produced the past three years of sub-par performance (and the unforgivable 2014 recruiting class) will only return to bite us again.
I believe Lavin should get an extension, but no more than 3 years! He represents what I want in a coach from the standpoint of caring for his players future development after basketball, graduation rates, as well as how he handles himself with the media. I believe the program is beginning to turn the corner from a win and loss prospective, and to change direction at this point would be detrimental. Frankly, I do not see us getting anyone better! Lock him up!
jumbo_peanuts
Active member
So who would you like to hire as a replacement?
Again I have to agree. I hear talks of Lavin offering program stability. Christ, norm offered stability. Doesn't mean we won games and it sure as hell doesn't mean he did a good job. It is easy to want to give Lavin an extension because of how well we are playing. But I ask you just wait. Just wait until you watch next years team once. Because Obekpa is starting to pop up on some draft boards, and Braziller already reported that Jordan wants out at season end.
I've said numerous times we should avoid next season and enjoy this one, but hey this is a thread meant to discuss Steve's contract. I know Lavins plan, he's gonna use the successful season to get new recruits just like he did in 2011. But do we want to wait 4 years before we are playing a great brand of basketball again? I mean the good news is I sat right near the bench at the Tulane game and it is pretty clear that Whitesell is coaching this team now tactically, so maybe his the staff can do a better job this time around with younger recruits.
If we make a deep run, and Lavin uses it to get a ton of recruits, give him one or maybe two years. But the 2015 class is already looking bare, so next season is gonna be one where we suffer. Through next seasons probable losing-fest, I bet Lavin keeps his job if he has 2016 recruits lined up in abundance. Not saying I agree with that but it will happen.
I am an optimist and am really pulling Lavin for to get some recruits, and have some great seasons ahead. But I take this joy I'm feeling this year with the success and top 15 ranking, and think, do I really want a coach that brings this every fourth year? And the answer is no, so if coach can turn it around I say give him long term extension. If he somehow pulls of a good season next year I'll be very impressed but right now I can't agree with an extension. Just my take
buckethead
Well-known member
Jarvis also inherited an incredible legacy with which he found himself in the NCAA's three times. Yes he did recruit people like Omar but he was running off of our reputation as an elite team. Where we ended up is more of an indication of Jarvis's legacy to this program than his previous wins. What did Lavin start with...a team 16-17 years removed from Louie's legacy and nearly a decade from the good teams Jarvis had but squandered. Jarvis gets no buys on his NCAA appearances because a lot of his "greatness" was carry over that he screwed up.
southernjohnny2
Member
I have bled red for many years, and withered the bad times as well as the good times. We have never won a national championship, and this isn't one of the top 10 ncaabb jobs in the country. We should stop acting like it is. Lav has had problems but I don't blame him so much as the changing landscape of basketball..Gone are the days of 30 great kids coming out of NYC high school and we get a few. Talented kids leave the city while they are young and go to schools all over the country, we have a few down here in Carolina. Some programs found ways around or loopholes in the system to help them with an edge.. We have allot of factors working against us.
If we don't extend Lavin, and who knows if this team has a great season he may not want to stay, he may want to go somewhere where I don't know fans show up for games. We are all assuming Lav wants to stay here...What if a better job opens up, yeah there are better jobs.. I wouldn't be messing around, I would extend him if they can..
If we don't extend Lavin, and who knows if this team has a great season he may not want to stay, he may want to go somewhere where I don't know fans show up for games. We are all assuming Lav wants to stay here...What if a better job opens up, yeah there are better jobs.. I wouldn't be messing around, I would extend him if they can..
I don't want to get into this Jarvis thing again...but this team has NEVER had an "incredible" legacy to feed off. The only thing that's "incredible" to me is some think two final fours in our history and no NCAA championships is special. The loss of the NIT and all the games from the win column, I believe, was a Father Harrington overreaction. We should probably lobby to get those games back.
Back to the subject...I thought Lavin would bring more to the table than he did. I guess I was a bit out of touch. On the other hand, there aren't very many coaches who could do more. I doubt the administration would bring them here, anyway. From that standpoint, I say give Lavin a nice extension.
You all, like myself, wanted the johnnies to be relevant again. We are 11-1 and ranked # 15! That's relevant in my book. You guys made good points, but there is no question that Lav is a good embassador for our program. Recruiting? I can't believe that was questioned. He is always in on some huge blue chippers, we've been the last two on some huge recruits. I know things are coming down to the wire, but I trust he will lock some guys up. I like where our program is now, it is Lav that changed this program around. He is good for these kids and seems to love our program. The guys seem to respond to him well, LOCK HIM UP!!!
How can you not question recruiting!?
beast of the east
Active member
Any comparisons to what Norm did for this program compared to what Lavin has done for this program do not warrant any serious discussion in my opinion. Norm could have been here 20 years and he'd still be scraping for 5'9" undersized guards that remind him of his own glory days at Queens College. He'd still be glorifying a tight win against St. Francis College by speaking about how our guys are warriors. He'd still be giving Hofstra credit for whooping us by saying how far their program has come and they are one of the better teams we have faced. Trips to the NIT would be hailed as monumental achievements for the program.
Lavin has restored this program, starting with a roster of Malik Stith in year two. Stith for his part was so talented, that not a single D1 program would take him as a transfer and he ended up in D2.
For our part here at Redmen.com, just two months ago, the prevailing view was overwhelmingly for firing him immediately and moving on. The discussions took firing him for granted and focused on his replacement.
Now just 60 days later, the clamor is for an immediate extension.
To be fair and balanced, the team is off to a great start. Not just in their record, but the core 6 players are playing well on both ends of the court. They are doing this despite the fact that arguably their most talented player is off to a dreadful start.
however, they don't hand out World Series rings in June, and plenty of 5-1 NFL teams fail to even make the playoffs. Let the season play out, and there will be plenty of time for the school to extend Lavin is they get the job done this year. I'm not worried about recruiting going forward. If we end the season as well as we've began, recruits will come much more readily. and let's face it, at a salary of close to $2.5 million a year, it's not like anyone is going to steal Lavin, unless we end the season cutting down the nets or come close.
Let's be real - Is 12-6 in the Big East possible? Yes, and it will get us a ticket to the dance. Is 9-9 also possible, especially if Dom, CO, of Harrison so much as twists an ankle that keeps them out 3-4 games? At 9-9, we probably don't dance, so let the season play out, and enjoy some really good basketball in the process.
Lavin has restored this program, starting with a roster of Malik Stith in year two. Stith for his part was so talented, that not a single D1 program would take him as a transfer and he ended up in D2.
For our part here at Redmen.com, just two months ago, the prevailing view was overwhelmingly for firing him immediately and moving on. The discussions took firing him for granted and focused on his replacement.
Now just 60 days later, the clamor is for an immediate extension.
To be fair and balanced, the team is off to a great start. Not just in their record, but the core 6 players are playing well on both ends of the court. They are doing this despite the fact that arguably their most talented player is off to a dreadful start.
however, they don't hand out World Series rings in June, and plenty of 5-1 NFL teams fail to even make the playoffs. Let the season play out, and there will be plenty of time for the school to extend Lavin is they get the job done this year. I'm not worried about recruiting going forward. If we end the season as well as we've began, recruits will come much more readily. and let's face it, at a salary of close to $2.5 million a year, it's not like anyone is going to steal Lavin, unless we end the season cutting down the nets or come close.
Let's be real - Is 12-6 in the Big East possible? Yes, and it will get us a ticket to the dance. Is 9-9 also possible, especially if Dom, CO, of Harrison so much as twists an ankle that keeps them out 3-4 games? At 9-9, we probably don't dance, so let the season play out, and enjoy some really good basketball in the process.
Let's simplify this. The new President will likely wait until season's end to determine what approach to take contractually. He would be foolish to move that decision to the present time in case we don't fare well in conference play. My sense is our President is a a bottom line, data driven administrator who won't impulsively give SL an extension now, recruiting impact or not.
As Moose has said a few times, a variable in this equation could be what SL thinks he is worth v. President's perspective. None of this is in our hands, so I am trying to enjoy a hopefully successful season & leave the contract issue to those responsible for such. I have never been a SL fan, but respect what the team has accomplished this season. I also have concerns about our roster going forward, but will wait to see what SL pulls out of the hat.
As Moose has said a few times, a variable in this equation could be what SL thinks he is worth v. President's perspective. None of this is in our hands, so I am trying to enjoy a hopefully successful season & leave the contract issue to those responsible for such. I have never been a SL fan, but respect what the team has accomplished this season. I also have concerns about our roster going forward, but will wait to see what SL pulls out of the hat.
Entering into what turned out to be Jarvis' last season I was so disgusted and embarrassed by what the team had become, I gave up my prized season tickets. I didn't care if the team went 30-0. This wasn't a team or a coach or a program I could or would root for. Wins are not everything.
In Lavin we have a coach with almost unique ethics and courage. He risked - and lost- a chance at the NCAA's to teach his best player a life lesson - knowing that he also risked D'lo leaving. How many division 1 coaches do you think would have done that? Along the way it taught everyone on the team as well. Maybe a few fans got it, too - the kids are what're most important. Without question. Five seniors graduate - six months early. Young men - and a coach - I can truly root for.
And the basketball ain't bad either. Lavin can flat out coach. I think 3 dances out of 4 are probably more likely than 1 of 4 going forward. I'd settle for 2. I don't want to be Kentucky, and I certainly don't want to be Carolina. I want to be proud to be a Johnnies fan.
There are people that will always find something not to like. Coming into this year it was he had to make the NCAA's. That looks likely, so now it's his recruiting for next year. If that falls into place, it'll be something else. There are people who are just like that. Guess they can't help it.
Sign Lavin up for as long as possible... and consider us lucky to have him.
In Lavin we have a coach with almost unique ethics and courage. He risked - and lost- a chance at the NCAA's to teach his best player a life lesson - knowing that he also risked D'lo leaving. How many division 1 coaches do you think would have done that? Along the way it taught everyone on the team as well. Maybe a few fans got it, too - the kids are what're most important. Without question. Five seniors graduate - six months early. Young men - and a coach - I can truly root for.
And the basketball ain't bad either. Lavin can flat out coach. I think 3 dances out of 4 are probably more likely than 1 of 4 going forward. I'd settle for 2. I don't want to be Kentucky, and I certainly don't want to be Carolina. I want to be proud to be a Johnnies fan.
There are people that will always find something not to like. Coming into this year it was he had to make the NCAA's. That looks likely, so now it's his recruiting for next year. If that falls into place, it'll be something else. There are people who are just like that. Guess they can't help it.
Sign Lavin up for as long as possible... and consider us lucky to have him.
beast of the east
Active member
I know for a fact this is part of the equation. Without going into specifics there will be a formal process to review this.
St. John's fans on twitter calling me a pessimist are so ignorant. Please read my post first, it isn't pessimistic. I just gave my opinion on the situation with Lavins contract. It doesn't take a pessimist to see that next years roster is frightening.