Coach Anderson

Just hard to find the logic in assessing or wanting to quit on CMA at this point. The program, no doubt, has been frustrating over an extended period of time.

Currently, my patience comes from the sense we have eliminated much of the disfunction that led to many years of flawed decision making. The combination of Cragg and CMA is highly likely to outperform (over the long term) the past coaching and leadership regimes.

Sit back and try not to let the rebuild send you off the tracks.

P.S......Next year ain't our year either.
 
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[quote="JohnnyFan" post=376357]Just hard to find the logic in assessing or wanting to quit on CMA at this point. The program, no doubt, has been frustrating over an extended period of time.

Currently, my patience comes from the sense we have eliminated much of the disfunction that led to many years of flawed decision making. The combination of Cragg and CMA is highly likely to outperform (over the long term) the past coaching and leadership regimes.

Sit back and try not to let the rebuild send you off the tracks.

P.S......Next year ain't our year either.[/quote]

CMA needs players with specific skill sets to play his system. Obviously, some of the players that he inherited are not best suited for this style of play. CMA deserves 2-3 years to recruit his type of players and coach them up to be able to play well in his system.

With all that has happened in the past, we want a winner now (me included). But we need to have some patience and give Coach a reasonable amount of time to get his system fully functional. I truly believe in Coach and believe that we will be highly competitive in 2-3 years.

Keep the faith!!!
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=376341]I think it's healthy to allow fans to vent their frustration instead of holding it in for others. That's the main point where we differ. No reason we should be 2-9 right now with LJ and Heron on this team even if it's a rebuilding year overall. Through our first 10-11 games in conference play the past 5 years we have to be something like 6-44. Not mediocre. I'll tell you what I would do...fire Oliva and get fresh blood. I also wouldn't have alienated Repole who would've helped upgrade our facilities single-handedly. I would've let him buy all the influence he wanted, because we aren't raising money any other way. We all want the best for this team and I'll continue to root for the program, but I also think fan dissatisfaction should not be dismissed as if it's unwarranted.[/quote]

We would not be 2-9 is Heron and Fig were having the kind of seasons that we all anticipated. You can’t blame CMA for that. I was probably as skeptical as anyone about the CMA hiring. When people were touting him as our savior, I was reserving judgement. I still am. However IMO he has done about as much with this group of kids as any coach could have done. I said it before and I’ll say it again; a good PG can make almost any coach look like John Wooden. IE David Cain/BM. We don’t have a PG. We also don’t have a low post presence, outside shooting and a lot of other things. Yet I have thoroughly enjoyed watching this team for most of the year. Granted, I also didn’t have any illusions about this team going in to the season. Like Mullin’s first year, I chalked this season up to the first step in the rebuilding process. I’m not saying that CMA is definitely the answer, all I’m saying is that from what I’ve seen of him so far this year, I feel more positively about him now than I did when the season started. I still say that if we make the NIT, which we still have a legit shot of doing, I’ll consider this season a success. Either way, I’m looking forward to us taking a big step forward next season.
 
My concern isn't really with the coaching, it's with the recruiting thus far. I don't even think we have enough incoming talent to replace those that will be leaving e.g. LJ and Heron. If LJ stays it's a different story but seems like there's at least a good chance he leaves. Posh is the only truly nationally recognized recruit we have in the incoming class so far and he's about 5'9 or 5'10. Also no idea how our size problem is being addressed with the bigs. Moore is listed at 6'11 some places but also 6'8 or 6'9 in other places and he's about 180 lbs. We need a true 6'11-7'0 245+ lb guy with some skill rebounding and some kind of decent offensive move. Look at WVU's bigs if you want to see true size. Wusu and Cole are pretty big question marks still even if Cole has a good reputation for shooting well. It's not impossible to land top 40 4 stars immediately. Go look up who Hsu is getting DePaul.
 
My honest opinion is that next year will be yet another rebuilding year where all the analysts pick us to finish 10th or 11th, but similar to this year a lot of us will convince ourselves that we are better than that. I think we're at least 2-3 years away from the NIT/NCAA (assuming we even make it), and a lot of fans will have a tough job dealing with that. If the staff doesn't start getting seriously involved with top 100 talent and our class for next year doesn't performed up to Big East standards, then the mood will shift very quickly and CMA will have a shorter leash than Mullin given his lack of ties to the school. Generally I'm optimistic but this year has been a major wasted opportunity. Just win a couple of those 50-50 Big East games and suddenly things look very different.

CMA will have many more chances and I like his work ethic and attitude, but I'm not yet sold on his coaching and recruiting. He absolutely deserves more time obviously and next year will be a lot more telling than this year. This time next year we should have a good idea as to whether he'll be successful here. If we're still mediocre on the court and not recruiting top talent, then the over/under for the "Next Coach?" or "Fire CMA!!!" thread will be February 2021.
 
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I have criticized MA and will not step back from that. My issues had to do completely with strategy and approach, not W's and L's. I still don't understand people blindly ignoring our early season success against more than just cupcakes and them blaming the BE record on "lack of talent."
Having said that, in NO way shape or form do I think we should even consider changing coaches, that is just absurd. Certainly, the unexpected poor play from both Figueroa (+ his lack of poise and BBIQ) and Heron have impacted this season big time. Anyway, not sure how to conclude this other than to say I made my observations but certainly stand behind this coach and will stand down as far as criticism is concerned and see how the rest of this one and the next couple of seasons play out.
 
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[quote="Logen" post=376372]I have criticized MA and will not step back from that. My issues had to do completely with strategy and approach, not W's and L's. I still don't understand people blindly ignoring our early season success against more than just cupcakes and them blaming the BE record on "lack of talent."
Having said that, in NO way shape or form do I think we should even consider changing coaches, that is just absurd. Certainly, the unexpected poor play from both Figueroa (+ his lack of poise and BBIQ) and Heron have impacted this season big time. Anyway, not sure how to conclude this other than to say I made my observations but certainly stand behind this coach and will stand down as far as criticism is concerned and see how the rest of this one and the next couple of seasons play out.[/quote]

All very well said, Logen.

I like what CMA is getting out his guys; concerned by the lack of progress from the early-season success.

But I won't hang the failings of the past 30 years on CMA or Mike Cragg. They get to start with a clean slate and with the understanding it takes a few years to build a program. We'll watch for steady progress...even if it is slow.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=376368]My concern isn't really with the coaching, it's with the recruiting thus far. I don't even think we have enough incoming talent to replace those that will be leaving e.g. LJ and Heron. If LJ stays it's a different story but seems like there's at least a good chance he leaves. Posh is the only truly nationally recognized recruit we have in the incoming class so far and he's about 5'9 or 5'10. Also no idea how our size problem is being addressed with the bigs. Moore is listed at 6'11 some places but also 6'8 or 6'9 in other places and he's about 180 lbs. We need a true 6'11-7'0 245+ lb guy with some skill rebounding and some kind of decent offensive move. Look at WVU's bigs if you want to see true size. Wusu and Cole are pretty big question marks still even if Cole has a good reputation for shooting well. It's not impossible to land top 40 4 stars immediately. Go look up who Hsu is getting DePaul.[/quote]

We beat West Virginia and our recruiting is not done. We have four players signed and we probably add at least two maybe three more. With CMA recruiting is not about rankings it’s about fitting a style of play. A style where players can excel if they fit the mold. Don’t get so caught up in rankings. With CMA’s system the team as a whole will be better than any of the individual parts , it’s a system.
 
[quote="Mean Gene" post=376375][quote="Mike Zaun" post=376368]My concern isn't really with the coaching, it's with the recruiting thus far. I don't even think we have enough incoming talent to replace those that will be leaving e.g. LJ and Heron. If LJ stays it's a different story but seems like there's at least a good chance he leaves. Posh is the only truly nationally recognized recruit we have in the incoming class so far and he's about 5'9 or 5'10. Also no idea how our size problem is being addressed with the bigs. Moore is listed at 6'11 some places but also 6'8 or 6'9 in other places and he's about 180 lbs. We need a true 6'11-7'0 245+ lb guy with some skill rebounding and some kind of decent offensive move. Look at WVU's bigs if you want to see true size. Wusu and Cole are pretty big question marks still even if Cole has a good reputation for shooting well. It's not impossible to land top 40 4 stars immediately. Go look up who Hsu is getting DePaul.[/quote]

We beat West Virginia and our recruiting is not done. We have four players signed and we probably add at least two maybe three more. With CMA recruiting is not about rankings it’s about fitting a style of play. A style where players can excel if they fit the mold. Don’t get so caught up in rankings. With CMA’s system the team as a whole will be better than any of the individual parts , it’s a system.[/quote]

You're right there are likely more ships to be had. However we will learn a lot from the staff about possibly who they don't bring in. Our last staff had a propensity of just plugging holes and we are still paying the price for that. I'm willing to take some lumps if it means not bringing in a long term mistake if that makes sense.
 
[quote="Moose" post=376378][quote="Mean Gene" post=376375][quote="Mike Zaun" post=376368]My concern isn't really with the coaching, it's with the recruiting thus far. I don't even think we have enough incoming talent to replace those that will be leaving e.g. LJ and Heron. If LJ stays it's a different story but seems like there's at least a good chance he leaves. Posh is the only truly nationally recognized recruit we have in the incoming class so far and he's about 5'9 or 5'10. Also no idea how our size problem is being addressed with the bigs. Moore is listed at 6'11 some places but also 6'8 or 6'9 in other places and he's about 180 lbs. We need a true 6'11-7'0 245+ lb guy with some skill rebounding and some kind of decent offensive move. Look at WVU's bigs if you want to see true size. Wusu and Cole are pretty big question marks still even if Cole has a good reputation for shooting well. It's not impossible to land top 40 4 stars immediately. Go look up who Hsu is getting DePaul.[/quote]

We beat West Virginia and our recruiting is not done. We have four players signed and we probably add at least two maybe three more. With CMA recruiting is not about rankings it’s about fitting a style of play. A style where players can excel if they fit the mold. Don’t get so caught up in rankings. With CMA’s system the team as a whole will be better than any of the individual parts , it’s a system.[/quote]

You're right there are likely more ships to be had. However we will learn a lot from the staff about possibly who they don't bring in. Our last staff had a propensity of just plugging holes and we are still paying the price for that. I'm willing to take some lumps if it means not bringing in a long term mistake if that makes sense.[/quote]

I feel the same way. Considering it’s already February and most impact players are accounted for I’m concerned with the idea of filling many more spots this off-season. There will already be four new guys to incorporate. Chasing new 3 star guys to replace the current 3 star guys who will have another year of experience seems counterproductive. Constant roster change was my biggest gripe with Mullin, I’m hoping this staff can alter that trend.
 
[quote="Logen" post=376372]I have criticized MA and will not step back from that. My issues had to do completely with strategy and approach, not W's and L's. I still don't understand people blindly ignoring our early season success against more than just cupcakes and them blaming the BE record on "lack of talent."
Having said that, in NO way shape or form do I think we should even consider changing coaches, that is just absurd. Certainly, the unexpected poor play from both Figueroa (+ his lack of poise and BBIQ) and Heron have impacted this season big time. Anyway, not sure how to conclude this other than to say I made my observations but certainly stand behind this coach and will stand down as far as criticism is concerned and see how the rest of this one and the next couple of seasons play out.[/quote]

Agree with most of what you're saying, however it's one thing to surprise some good teams(who may not be operating on all cylinders yet) early in the season, and it's a whole other thing do that once league play starts. Especially this year in the Big East when the comp is so tough. The better comp will wear you down both physically and psychologically.
 
[quote="Mean Gene" post=376375][quote="Mike Zaun" post=376368]My concern isn't really with the coaching, it's with the recruiting thus far. I don't even think we have enough incoming talent to replace those that will be leaving e.g. LJ and Heron. If LJ stays it's a different story but seems like there's at least a good chance he leaves. Posh is the only truly nationally recognized recruit we have in the incoming class so far and he's about 5'9 or 5'10. Also no idea how our size problem is being addressed with the bigs. Moore is listed at 6'11 some places but also 6'8 or 6'9 in other places and he's about 180 lbs. We need a true 6'11-7'0 245+ lb guy with some skill rebounding and some kind of decent offensive move. Look at WVU's bigs if you want to see true size. Wusu and Cole are pretty big question marks still even if Cole has a good reputation for shooting well. It's not impossible to land top 40 4 stars immediately. Go look up who Hsu is getting DePaul.[/quote]

We beat West Virginia and our recruiting is not done. We have four players signed and we probably add at least two maybe three more. With CMA recruiting is not about rankings it’s about fitting a style of play. A style where players can excel if they fit the mold. Don’t get so caught up in rankings. With CMA’s system the team as a whole will be better than any of the individual parts , it’s a system.[/quote]

While this sounds great in theory and has some truth to it, I don't completely buy it. CMA actually DID recruit very well at Arkansas. He got plenty of top 50-100 talent. His classes ranked consistently around 25-40 in the nation while his first couple St. John's classes haven't been anywhere close to that (based on the 247 rankings which don't include our JUCOs as they don't have them on their limited JUCO list- tough to say how good they actually are given the limited data on JUCOs). While at Arkansas CMA recruited similarly to how Mullin recruited his first couple years (Ponds, LoVett, Yakwe, etc). The difference is that CMA did that consistently throughout all of his years there. I would've been thrilled with that level of recruiting here for a similar 8 year period.

With how dirty college basketball is, it's impossible for me to say exactly what is going on behind the scenes. I find it a bit odd that seemingly none of his Arkansas recruits/players followed him here. It's possible some of those Arkansas recruits were brought in by a "Hsu" like AC who is no longer with CMA. With the rules changing soon regarding player compensation, maybe we're in a bit of holding pattern for the next year and things could get better after that.
 
[quote="IDRAFT" post=376381][quote="Moose" post=376378][quote="Mean Gene" post=376375][quote="Mike Zaun" post=376368]My concern isn't really with the coaching, it's with the recruiting thus far. I don't even think we have enough incoming talent to replace those that will be leaving e.g. LJ and Heron. If LJ stays it's a different story but seems like there's at least a good chance he leaves. Posh is the only truly nationally recognized recruit we have in the incoming class so far and he's about 5'9 or 5'10. Also no idea how our size problem is being addressed with the bigs. Moore is listed at 6'11 some places but also 6'8 or 6'9 in other places and he's about 180 lbs. We need a true 6'11-7'0 245+ lb guy with some skill rebounding and some kind of decent offensive move. Look at WVU's bigs if you want to see true size. Wusu and Cole are pretty big question marks still even if Cole has a good reputation for shooting well. It's not impossible to land top 40 4 stars immediately. Go look up who Hsu is getting DePaul.[/quote]

We beat West Virginia and our recruiting is not done. We have four players signed and we probably add at least two maybe three more. With CMA recruiting is not about rankings it’s about fitting a style of play. A style where players can excel if they fit the mold. Don’t get so caught up in rankings. With CMA’s system the team as a whole will be better than any of the individual parts , it’s a system.[/quote]

You're right there are likely more ships to be had. However we will learn a lot from the staff about possibly who they don't bring in. Our last staff had a propensity of just plugging holes and we are still paying the price for that. I'm willing to take some lumps if it means not bringing in a long term mistake if that makes sense.[/quote]

I feel the same way. Considering it’s already February and most impact players are accounted for I’m concerned with the idea of filling many more spots this off-season. There will already be four new guys to incorporate. Chasing new 3 star guys to replace the current 3 star guys who will have another year of experience seems counterproductive. Constant roster change was my biggest gripe with Mullin, I’m hoping this staff can alter that trend.[/quote]

Thats why I'm not opposed to JUCO's. They are 2 year ships for the most part and more physically mature. We all know how experience and age often lead to success on the court.
 
[quote="Moose" post=376384][quote="IDRAFT" post=376381][quote="Moose" post=376378][quote="Mean Gene" post=376375][quote="Mike Zaun" post=376368]My concern isn't really with the coaching, it's with the recruiting thus far. I don't even think we have enough incoming talent to replace those that will be leaving e.g. LJ and Heron. If LJ stays it's a different story but seems like there's at least a good chance he leaves. Posh is the only truly nationally recognized recruit we have in the incoming class so far and he's about 5'9 or 5'10. Also no idea how our size problem is being addressed with the bigs. Moore is listed at 6'11 some places but also 6'8 or 6'9 in other places and he's about 180 lbs. We need a true 6'11-7'0 245+ lb guy with some skill rebounding and some kind of decent offensive move. Look at WVU's bigs if you want to see true size. Wusu and Cole are pretty big question marks still even if Cole has a good reputation for shooting well. It's not impossible to land top 40 4 stars immediately. Go look up who Hsu is getting DePaul.[/quote]

We beat West Virginia and our recruiting is not done. We have four players signed and we probably add at least two maybe three more. With CMA recruiting is not about rankings it’s about fitting a style of play. A style where players can excel if they fit the mold. Don’t get so caught up in rankings. With CMA’s system the team as a whole will be better than any of the individual parts , it’s a system.[/quote]

You're right there are likely more ships to be had. However we will learn a lot from the staff about possibly who they don't bring in. Our last staff had a propensity of just plugging holes and we are still paying the price for that. I'm willing to take some lumps if it means not bringing in a long term mistake if that makes sense.[/quote]

I feel the same way. Considering it’s already February and most impact players are accounted for I’m concerned with the idea of filling many more spots this off-season. There will already be four new guys to incorporate. Chasing new 3 star guys to replace the current 3 star guys who will have another year of experience seems counterproductive. Constant roster change was my biggest gripe with Mullin, I’m hoping this staff can alter that trend.[/quote]

Thats why I'm not opposed to JUCO's. They are 2 year ships for the most part and more physically mature. We all know how experience and age often lead to success on the court.[/quote]

And, they don't have to sit out a year, once they get here.
 
[quote="Monte" post=376382][quote="Logen" post=376372]I have criticized MA and will not step back from that. My issues had to do completely with strategy and approach, not W's and L's. I still don't understand people blindly ignoring our early season success against more than just cupcakes and them blaming the BE record on "lack of talent."
Having said that, in NO way shape or form do I think we should even consider changing coaches, that is just absurd. Certainly, the unexpected poor play from both Figueroa (+ his lack of poise and BBIQ) and Heron have impacted this season big time. Anyway, not sure how to conclude this other than to say I made my observations but certainly stand behind this coach and will stand down as far as criticism is concerned and see how the rest of this one and the next couple of seasons play out.[/quote]

Agree with most of what you're saying, however it's one thing to surprise some good teams(who may not be operating on all cylinders yet) early in the season, and it's a whole other thing do that once league play starts. Especially this year in the Big East when the comp is so tough. The better comp will wear you down both physically and psychologically.[/quote]

Very valid point and I am sure that is a part of it. However, I don't think that addresses the way we have lost and played down the stretch of games, which is my point.. However, I have said my piece and am moving on. The man deserves time and his players and in hindsight I would have preferred to have kept my thoughts to myself.
 
The adoption of the 3 point shot in 1986 changed the way college basketball was played, and the way college teams recruited. For everyone but St. John's that is. SJU has historically and continues to recruit tweener sized players, often raw but usually very athletic. Dom Pointer, Sampson, Greg Williams, Amir Garrett, Josh Roberts Greg Williams and plenty more. The 3 point shooters brought here are either too slow to get their shots off at this level (Hooper, Caraher) or their JC or mid major percentages, never that high to begin with, didn't translate to high major competition. (Avery Patterson). The lack of a skilled inside presence on offense has eliminated the inside out game, resulting in less open looks from 3. Not having a skilled pg for many years hasn't helped.

This is not on CMA. Blaming him for any of this is the sign of a desperate and impatient fanbase. Anderson's style really should fit here, as he will have more success signing athletes than shooters. The 40 minutes of hell may offset the shooting disadvantages. I like what I see from CMA. He is doing a lot with what he has. Let's give him time. This isn't the 80s where SJU still had the name and the stipend to work with.
 
So we were picked to finish 9th in the Big East, and we're currently in 9th, and people are upset? What was expected?
 
[quote="Room112" post=376397]So we were picked to finish 9th in the Big East, and we're currently in 9th, and people are upset? What was expected?[/quote]

The non conf wins over Arizona and West Virginia screwed a ton of fans on here because they thought this was gonna be a special season.

For me, I certainly hoped that but as soon as we lost to butler the way we did on New Year’s Eve I had a feeling the season was over. And once we lost that game @Georgetown the season was confirmed over.

I like Mike A and he deserves time like Logen said to build the program the way he wants and then we will see what happens.

I can understand the frustration but we do have to be patient. We are like kids in an ice cream parlor who got handed a huge sundae, got to take two licks (WVU and Zona) and then the ice cream was promptly taken away from us. It sucks, but us doing big things this year wasn’t realistic.

As for the talk about recruiting, I wouldn’t complain about it just because the rankings are what they are. If these recruits come in and stink it up then you have a right to complain about the recruiting. But Mike A got Champagnie already who’s been one of my favorite players to watch. While our “highly rated guys” like mustapha have been a let down. So don’t get hung up on rankings they don’t tell the whole story. Let’s get these guys on campus and out on the floor and then see what we have
 
[quote="Room112" post=376397]So we were picked to finish 9th in the Big East, and we're currently in 9th, and people are upset? What was expected?[/quote]

The 9th thing was odd to me. But youre right maybe they were right. Being picked 9th with 2 players picked 2nd team BE in Heron and LJ seemed odd to me. But we're 9th with them being mehhh for most of the year. So its a wash I guess.
 
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