Cluess

[quote="P Simmons" post=340682]Interesting exchange between Dick Vitale--who apparently is a fan of both Cluess AND Pitino--and Tim Brando, the Fox analyst who covered many of our games:

Dick Vitale‏Verified account @DickieV
The more I think of the @StJohnsBBall job TIM CLUESS would be a solid choice / he has taken Iona to @marchmadness 6 times ! Would bring PASSION & PRIDE as the leader of the Red Storm .@MikeVacc


Howie Schwab‏Verified account @howieschwab 13h13 hours ago
Replying to @DickieV @StJohnsBBall and
Nope

Tim Brando‏Verified account @TimBrando 13h13 hours ago
I’m with you Howie, to force Mullin out they @StJohnsBBall needed a home run hire. Tim’s a good Coach, but this is a tough sell.[/quote]

Home run? St. John's has 3 men on base with a full count.
All the talk about Cluess and Iona says that they have not been contacted. What Catholic school is being more honest?
We should also stop blaming Cragg. Mullin effectively walked out on his players. Wants his 4 million. Already on the west coast. Nothing was going to change his view of entitlement and his lack of dedication and focus. I'm sure his agent and lawyer are squeezing dear alma mater for every last penny. Wouldn't it be nice if he donated it back to the school for not coaching in his first 2 years.
 
[quote="MCNPA" post=340638][quote="sjc88" post=340632]I don’t see how hiring Cluess helps the recruiting problem. Let’s say you are a good PG. Not blue blood good but good. You are being recruited by Providence, Seton Hall and Georgetown. Who are you going with? Cooley, Willard, Ewing or Cluess? Most people don’t have a clue (no pun intended) who the hell Cluess is. Given the fact he is 60 year old coach he has been operating in relative obscurity he is basically unknown to kids and families. Even a massive effort is not going to close that gap.[/quote]

No recruits know who Nate Oats formerly of Buffalo is either. Cluess’ ties to NYC are very strong and all the coaches and players know who he is. What you’re saying is patently untrue. Willard was a nobody before he took the Hall job. Players come to play for good coaches period. It also takes an eye for talent which Cluess has. Some strong recruiting assistants and we will be landing players.[/quote]
Difference with Oats is that he wasn't having to recruit BE-level players, whereas Cluess would have to recruit against the likes of Kansas, UNC, Ohio State, etc., as well as against other BE teams who have recognizable (and popular, and winning) head coaches. Cluess might well be a good coach (although I'm uncomfortable with his lack of emphasis on defense), but he doesn't seem to have the type of personality or name recognition that recruits would excite recruits. Hope I'm wrong, but ...
 
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I still don't think he has the recruiting power and this only reinforces it. Aside from a 3* in 2011 and Norvel Pelle in 2012 he hasn't recruited over a 2*. His last recruit over a 2* was 7 years ago. Yes he is only at Iona. Yes he seems like he coach really well. If we gave him this years group to play over with again I believe that he would have gotten further. He doesn't have that option and although he is well known in NYC few people have kept the top NYC kids home to play at SJU. I see nothing that indicates TC is the guy to do this.
 
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[quote="redken" post=340703][quote="MCNPA" post=340638][quote="sjc88" post=340632]I don’t see how hiring Cluess helps the recruiting problem. Let’s say you are a good PG. Not blue blood good but good. You are being recruited by Providence, Seton Hall and Georgetown. Who are you going with? Cooley, Willard, Ewing or Cluess? Most people don’t have a clue (no pun intended) who the hell Cluess is. Given the fact he is 60 year old coach he has been operating in relative obscurity he is basically unknown to kids and families. Even a massive effort is not going to close that gap.[/quote]

No recruits know who Nate Oats formerly of Buffalo is either. Cluess’ ties to NYC are very strong and all the coaches and players know who he is. What you’re saying is patently untrue. Willard was a nobody before he took the Hall job. Players come to play for good coaches period. It also takes an eye for talent which Cluess has. Some strong recruiting assistants and we will be landing players.[/quote]
Difference with Oats is that he wasn't having to recruit BE-level players, whereas Cluess would have to recruit against the likes of Kansas, UNC, Ohio State, etc., as well as against other BE teams who have recognizable (and popular) head coaches.[/quote]

sjc88,

Cluess's style of offense should be very appealing to good point guards. Yes, his teams take quick 3's, but it's not dribble, dribble, dribble, shoot, it's pass, pass, pass, shoot.

Point guards should be flocking here if Cluess takes the job (that's, of course, assuming the recruitment is on the "up-and-up" from all parties, which is never a safe bet).

Big guys? That's another story. That's where you may have a beef with Cluess's recruiting, but I'll stay open-minded, because he's proven everything else, IMO.
 
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[quote="SJU61982" post=340705]
Big guys? That's another story. That's where you may have a beef with Cluess's recruiting, but I'll stay open-minded, because he's proven everything else, IMO.[/quote]

Lack of big men?

Cluess' best players at Iona were arguably:
1. Mike Glover, 6'7" who played like a beast down low, and
2. David Laury, 6'9" who was the league MVP.
 
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[quote="buckethead" post=340704]I still don't think he has the recruiting power and this only reinforces it. Aside from a 3* in 2011 and Norvel Pelle in 2012 he hasn't recruited over a 2*. His last recruit over a 2* was 7 years ago. Yes he is only at Iona. Yes he seems like he coach really well. If we gave him this years group to play over with again I believe that he would have gotten further. He doesn't have that option and although he is well known in NYC few people have kept the top NYC kids home to play at SJU. I see nothing that indicates TC is the guy to do this.[/quote]

Except he wins everywhere he goes, it's a trend. He recruits MAAC talent and wins with it. Was Tony Bennett Sr., Chris Beard recruiting major talent at Ark. St. and Wisconsin GB? We are a mid major that is a fact, and a shit place to coach. Cluess can move us forward first and maybe start a winning tradition. WE are not going to be big time program again, unless we strike gold with a Jay Wright e.g., long odds on that one. Am open to other alternates, believe TC can do the job.
 
[quote="MainMan" post=340708][quote="SJU61982" post=340705]
Big guys? That's another story. That's where you may have a beef with Cluess's recruiting, but I'll stay open-minded, because he's proven everything else, IMO.[/quote]

Cluess' best players were arguably Mike Glover, who played like a beast down low, and 6'9 David Laury, who was the league MVP.[/quote]

You can throw in Jordan Washington as well.
 
[quote="redken" post=340703][quote="MCNPA" post=340638][quote="sjc88" post=340632]I don’t see how hiring Cluess helps the recruiting problem. Let’s say you are a good PG. Not blue blood good but good. You are being recruited by Providence, Seton Hall and Georgetown. Who are you going with? Cooley, Willard, Ewing or Cluess? Most people don’t have a clue (no pun intended) who the hell Cluess is. Given the fact he is 60 year old coach he has been operating in relative obscurity he is basically unknown to kids and families. Even a massive effort is not going to close that gap.[/quote]

No recruits know who Nate Oats formerly of Buffalo is either. Cluess’ ties to NYC are very strong and all the coaches and players know who he is. What you’re saying is patently untrue. Willard was a nobody before he took the Hall job. Players come to play for good coaches period. It also takes an eye for talent which Cluess has. Some strong recruiting assistants and we will be landing players.[/quote]
Difference with Oats is that he wasn't having to recruit BE-level players, whereas Cluess would have to recruit against the likes of Kansas, UNC, Ohio State, etc., as well as against other BE teams who have recognizable (and popular) head coaches.[/quote]

Boom goes the dynamite. That last sentence sums it up in a nutshell. All the fawning by local HS and AAU coaches over Cluess belies the fact that he has recruited leftover kids who couldn't get high majors to notice them. That's not going to fly here. Plus, his "local contacts" aren't going to help when the top area kids wind up going to prep schools out of the area. And what leverage does he have outside the metro area?

I don't have any confidence that Cluess' run and gun offense and porous defense is going to work here any better than Chris' positionless schemes. Neither one stresses defense.

Say what you will about Scheyer's lack of head coaching experience, but he's made recruiting contacts over the years around the country. If he comes here and hires an older experienced xs and os assistant and another guy with recruiting ties to the area and notheast that would work for me.

As much as I dislike K, at least his teams play defense and an organized style at both ends of the floor. If that's what Scheyer brings to the table count me in.
 
This is apart of the problem. St. John's should NOT be recruiting against the likes of KA, NC et al. We should be looking for solid 3 and 4s that can grow with the program. A major issue for the last 2 coaches was recruiting out of our league, or putting too many eggs in unrealistic baskets. We need to right-size our expectations, implement a system that can work with the 3s and 4s we have overlooked for too long and BUILD a program.

[quote="redken" post=340703][quote="MCNPA" post=340638][quote="sjc88" post=340632]I don’t see how hiring Cluess helps the recruiting problem. Let’s say you are a good PG. Not blue blood good but good. You are being recruited by Providence, Seton Hall and Georgetown. Who are you going with? Cooley, Willard, Ewing or Cluess? Most people don’t have a clue (no pun intended) who the hell Cluess is. Given the fact he is 60 year old coach he has been operating in relative obscurity he is basically unknown to kids and families. Even a massive effort is not going to close that gap.[/quote]

No recruits know who Nate Oats formerly of Buffalo is either. Cluess’ ties to NYC are very strong and all the coaches and players know who he is. What you’re saying is patently untrue. Willard was a nobody before he took the Hall job. Players come to play for good coaches period. It also takes an eye for talent which Cluess has. Some strong recruiting assistants and we will be landing players.[/quote]
Difference with Oats is that he wasn't having to recruit BE-level players, whereas Cluess would have to recruit against the likes of Kansas, UNC, Ohio State, etc., as well as against other BE teams who have recognizable (and popular, and winning) head coaches. Cluess might well be a good coach (although I'm uncomfortable with his lack of emphasis on defense), but he doesn't seem to have the type of personality or name cognition that recruits would excite recruits. Hope I'm wrong, but ...[/quote]
 
Is this the “lock” many have stated? My gut says there is more to the process.
 
[quote="MainMan" post=340708][quote="SJU61982" post=340705]
Big guys? That's another story. That's where you may have a beef with Cluess's recruiting, but I'll stay open-minded, because he's proven everything else, IMO.[/quote]

Cluess' best players were arguably Mike Glover, who played like a beast down low, and 6'9 David Laury, who was the league MVP.[/quote]

Glover was only 6"5". Easier to do that in the MAAC, and Laury would probably also be undersized in the Big East, but might have been successful. That would still be undersized by Big East standards, though undersized teams have won in the past, and Cluess's track record indicates that he will either:

1. win with an undersized team

or

2. adjust, and get bigs.
 
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[quote="redken" post=340703][quote="MCNPA" post=340638][quote="sjc88" post=340632]I don’t see how hiring Cluess helps the recruiting problem. Let’s say you are a good PG. Not blue blood good but good. You are being recruited by Providence, Seton Hall and Georgetown. Who are you going with? Cooley, Willard, Ewing or Cluess? Most people don’t have a clue (no pun intended) who the hell Cluess is. Given the fact he is 60 year old coach he has been operating in relative obscurity he is basically unknown to kids and families. Even a massive effort is not going to close that gap.[/quote]

No recruits know who Nate Oats formerly of Buffalo is either. Cluess’ ties to NYC are very strong and all the coaches and players know who he is. What you’re saying is patently untrue. Willard was a nobody before he took the Hall job. Players come to play for good coaches period. It also takes an eye for talent which Cluess has. Some strong recruiting assistants and we will be landing players.[/quote]
Difference with Oats is that he wasn't having to recruit BE-level players, whereas Cluess would have to recruit against the likes of Kansas, UNC, Ohio State, etc., as well as against other BE teams who have recognizable (and popular, and winning) head coaches. Cluess might well be a good coach (although I'm uncomfortable with his lack of emphasis on defense), but he doesn't seem to have the type of personality or name cognition that recruits would excite recruits. Hope I'm wrong, but ...[/quote]

Nate Oats is also a 44 year old coach who Hurley hired as an Assistant. He cut his teeth recruiting for 2 years as part of his role. Any real comparison between these two is difficult. We are probably looking at a multi year project and you need to ask yourself would Cluess be the guy to stick this out. IF in fact he is the hire.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=340717]Is this the “lock” many have stated? My gut says there is more to the process.[/quote]

God, I hope so.
 
Adam Zagoria
‏Verified account @AdamZagoria

Sources said Cluess has a "significant" buyout that is estimated to be in the neighborhood of $2 million.
 
[quote="Johnnie Drama" post=340712][quote="MainMan" post=340708][quote="SJU61982" post=340705]
Big guys? That's another story. That's where you may have a beef with Cluess's recruiting, but I'll stay open-minded, because he's proven everything else, IMO.[/quote]

Cluess' best players were arguably Mike Glover, who played like a beast down low, and 6'9 David Laury, who was the league MVP.[/quote]

You can throw in Jordan Washington as well.[/quote]

Yeah, they beat up on low mid major teams, how's that gonna fly in the BE? And I'm hot excusing Chris from his small ball either.
 
[quote="SJU61982" post=340718][quote="MainMan" post=340708][quote="SJU61982" post=340705]
Big guys? That's another story. That's where you may have a beef with Cluess's recruiting, but I'll stay open-minded, because he's proven everything else, IMO.[/quote]

Cluess' best players were arguably Mike Glover, who played like a beast down low, and 6'9 David Laury, who was the league MVP.[/quote]

Glover was only 6"5". Easier to do that in the MAAC, and Laury would probably also be undersized in the Big East, but might have been successful. That would still be undersized by Big East standards, though undersized teams have won in the past, and Cluess's track record indicates that he will either:

1. win with an undersized team

or

2. adjust, and get bigs.[/quote]

The point is he recruited talented big men for the MAAC and they thrived under him.
Those guys put up better numbers than any big St. John's has had in years.
 
[quote="P Simmons" post=340724]Adam Zagoria
‏Verified account @AdamZagoria

Sources said Cluess has a "significant" buyout that is estimated to be in the neighborhood of $2 million.[/quote]

Lol

Good for you, Iona. This explains the pivot. What is Cragg’s buyout?
 
[quote="Section9" post=340726][quote="Johnnie Drama" post=340712][quote="MainMan" post=340708][quote="SJU61982" post=340705]
Big guys? That's another story. That's where you may have a beef with Cluess's recruiting, but I'll stay open-minded, because he's proven everything else, IMO.[/quote]

Cluess' best players were arguably Mike Glover, who played like a beast down low, and 6'9 David Laury, who was the league MVP.[/quote]

You can throw in Jordan Washington as well.[/quote]

Yeah, they beat up on low mid major teams, how's that gonna fly in the BE? And I'm hot excusing Chris from his small ball either.[/quote]

These are exactly the same kind of questions Cluess faced when he went from high school ball to junior college.

He faced them again when he went from JC to college ball.

He faced them again when he went from D2 coaching, to D1 coaching.

The only constant in this, is that he has proven the so-called "experts" wrong every time. Maybe he won't this time, but IMO, the odds are overwhelmingly in his favor.
 
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