Christian Jones Status

I'm not sure which is more annoying: the battles over Lavin's worth or lack thereof, or the discussion over who would have been a better 9th man, CJ or Amar. Much like Tommy, Lavin and CJ are gone, "and we couldn't do nothing about it". We are looking to turn the corner this year from an abysmal team to a competitive one, then on to a good one in year 3. I wish CJ well, and hope Amar shows some improvement on the court while continuing to be a good teammate from the bench.
 
Solid Citizen at St. John's. Hope trouble doesn't find him in Las Vegas.
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Great kid who stuck with us through thick and thin. Was hoping he'd be on this year's roster. Wish him nothing but the best.
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Maybe Jones wanted to leave, but if they had a choice between him and Amar, they chose poorly.
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With Yakwe, Sima, Amhed and our two other bigs, Jones would have gotten very few minutes off the bench. It was his choice to leave to possibly showcase his talent. Amar, on the other hand, is more than happy to be a role player. He can shoot from beyond the arc and at 6'9 is a better investment this year because we are going to be a guard oriented team. He and Richard will help each other develop nicely. Jones, for all his strength, was a very poor defender. Last year we needed both Amar and Jones for points. This year we have Bashir, Shamorie and Marcus for the points and a lot of skinny bigs who will run the floor in Mullin's offense. Jones was too slow for that offense last year and would have been just as slow this year. ;)
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It is not a big deal as Jones certainly wouldn't have made the difference between us making a tourney or not. However my point is I do not feel that there are 8 or 9 guys on the current roster better than him. He absolutely would have been in the rotation .
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You and I obviously watched a different Christian Jones over his four years, If you think he would be better than 9 other current players then he would be a starter again. Thankfully the coaches will not have the opportunity to make that mistake. I agree Christian would have gotten minutes but nowhere near the minutes he got last year and since we are not Kentucky I doubt our 8th or 9th man would have been in many scout's recruiting notes. I'd rather see if Mullin and staff can develop and coach the young talent they recruited than relying on a Lavin recruit with sporadic intensity as was his history even if we lose 2 more games because of inside softness.
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But, 72, having Jones instead of Amar (who, like Jones, a Lavin recruit) on board would also open a roster spot for a highly rated 2017 recruit -- someone Mullin and staff could "develop and coach" one year earlier than someone replacing Amar's spot in 2018. And if Jones' play the end of last season proves to be an anomaly, well then he'd probably wouldn't see as many minutes as he might want to. But if coming off the bench Jones did, in fact, contribute to the team's having 2 or more wins, as you put it, that could prove to be the difference between post-season play or not ... and making post-season play (or having a respectable won-loss record) could be huge in making St. John's -- and Mullin -- more attractive to recruits.
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It appears that Amar plead his way back in. Incredibly likeable kid, loves St Johns, and im sure would rather sit hete than play elsewhere. In our future he is no more than a fairly athletic big body who may be used when a couple of bigs ate in foul trouble and may drain a 3 now andthen . CJones was a model citizen and apparently great teammate also, but Amar is the #1cheerleader who also avails himself when a staffer has a fan who wants to meet a player. Im okay with either or noth having come back . you need solid guys at the back end of the bench
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Beast, love that Amar's a great cheerleader, but -- as you put it -- it's about having having solid guys at the end of the bench, and based on last year's performances, I believe Jones would fill that role better. And it's not as if Jones was a poor teammate or a sulking downer when he wasn't in the game; he consistently showed great loyalty to the program and to his teammates. It's great that Amar excels at schmoozing fans -- and, I'm not belittling that; I genuinely admire it -- but I'm more interested in who's going to help us win more games and maybe get to post-season play, and unless Amar miraculously turns around his game, that means Jones would have been the better choice -- plus it would have the added benefit of opening up a roster slot next year for a potentially elite recruit. But that's water under the bridge.

That said, can't wait for the season to start. Think it's going to be a fun-filled season ... provided our expectations are reasonable. And, believe me, I'll definitely will be rooting for Amar to prove me wrong.
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See that is the thing most are missing. Not only is Jones way better than Amar, I think Jones would be better than Owns and would be first big off the bench. Again we won't be very good anyway but my point is with Jones we would have been just a touch better.
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At the expense of the future. I would much prefer the minutes go to Owens and RF.
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I will give you RF but Owens will be recruited over and in fact he already has.




I
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I think you and others are selling Owens a little short. I think he wil be better than expected.
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Based on what?
 
Solid Citizen at St. John's. Hope trouble doesn't find him in Las Vegas.
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Great kid who stuck with us through thick and thin. Was hoping he'd be on this year's roster. Wish him nothing but the best.
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Maybe Jones wanted to leave, but if they had a choice between him and Amar, they chose poorly.
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With Yakwe, Sima, Amhed and our two other bigs, Jones would have gotten very few minutes off the bench. It was his choice to leave to possibly showcase his talent. Amar, on the other hand, is more than happy to be a role player. He can shoot from beyond the arc and at 6'9 is a better investment this year because we are going to be a guard oriented team. He and Richard will help each other develop nicely. Jones, for all his strength, was a very poor defender. Last year we needed both Amar and Jones for points. This year we have Bashir, Shamorie and Marcus for the points and a lot of skinny bigs who will run the floor in Mullin's offense. Jones was too slow for that offense last year and would have been just as slow this year. ;)
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It is not a big deal as Jones certainly wouldn't have made the difference between us making a tourney or not. However my point is I do not feel that there are 8 or 9 guys on the current roster better than him. He absolutely would have been in the rotation .
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You and I obviously watched a different Christian Jones over his four years, If you think he would be better than 9 other current players then he would be a starter again. Thankfully the coaches will not have the opportunity to make that mistake. I agree Christian would have gotten minutes but nowhere near the minutes he got last year and since we are not Kentucky I doubt our 8th or 9th man would have been in many scout's recruiting notes. I'd rather see if Mullin and staff can develop and coach the young talent they recruited than relying on a Lavin recruit with sporadic intensity as was his history even if we lose 2 more games because of inside softness.
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But, 72, having Jones instead of Amar (who, like Jones, a Lavin recruit) on board would also open a roster spot for a highly rated 2017 recruit -- someone Mullin and staff could "develop and coach" one year earlier than someone replacing Amar's spot in 2018. And if Jones' play the end of last season proves to be an anomaly, well then he'd probably wouldn't see as many minutes as he might want to. But if coming off the bench Jones did, in fact, contribute to the team's having 2 or more wins, as you put it, that could prove to be the difference between post-season play or not ... and making post-season play (or having a respectable won-loss record) could be huge in making St. John's -- and Mullin -- more attractive to recruits.
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It appears that Amar plead his way back in. Incredibly likeable kid, loves St Johns, and im sure would rather sit hete than play elsewhere. In our future he is no more than a fairly athletic big body who may be used when a couple of bigs ate in foul trouble and may drain a 3 now andthen . CJones was a model citizen and apparently great teammate also, but Amar is the #1cheerleader who also avails himself when a staffer has a fan who wants to meet a player. Im okay with either or noth having come back . you need solid guys at the back end of the bench
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Beast, love that Amar's a great cheerleader, but -- as you put it -- it's about having having solid guys at the end of the bench, and based on last year's performances, I believe Jones would fill that role better. And it's not as if Jones was a poor teammate or a sulking downer when he wasn't in the game; he consistently showed great loyalty to the program and to his teammates. It's great that Amar excels at schmoozing fans -- and, I'm not belittling that; I genuinely admire it -- but I'm more interested in who's going to help us win more games and maybe get to post-season play, and unless Amar miraculously turns around his game, that means Jones would have been the better choice -- plus it would have the added benefit of opening up a roster slot next year for a potentially elite recruit. But that's water under the bridge.

That said, can't wait for the season to start. Think it's going to be a fun-filled season ... provided our expectations are reasonable. And, believe me, I'll definitely will be rooting for Amar to prove me wrong.
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See that is the thing most are missing. Not only is Jones way better than Amar, I think Jones would be better than Owns and would be first big off the bench. Again we won't be very good anyway but my point is with Jones we would have been just a touch better.
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At the expense of the future. I would much prefer the minutes go to Owens and RF.
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I will give you RF but Owens will be recruited over and in fact he already has.




I
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I think you and others are selling Owens a little short. I think he wil be better than expected.
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Based on what?
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Well, anyone who's 6'11'' should never be "sold short". ;)
 
I know that I am not the most popular or interesting poster on here but with the season coming up, I hope more posters return and or actively post. I have only been reading this site and posting for a few years but recently some of he better posters have disappeared. Looking forward to an interesting season with a lot of good debate.
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Yea sure, no problem :p
 
The bottom line is if you put Last year's Jones on a good team and played him 15 minutes off the bench you would be very happy with his production. You can't say that about Amar and Owens has proven that yet.
 
The bottom line is if you put Last year's Jones on a good team and played him 15 minutes off the bench you would be very happy with his production. You can't say that about Amar and Owens has proven that yet.
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Easy to say but I never felt he made us any more competitive when he was on the floor. It's very subjective but there were moments when Mussini heated up and drilled a few threes in a row, where he looked very dangerous. This happened with more frequency before he wore down, but besides those moments I didn't have any confidence in another guys really being capable of lifting the team with his play - including Jones.
 
Agreed on Jones. Classic case of asking a role player to do too much. His limitations got exposed. Same with Mussini IMO. I think he'll be more efficient this year in a more limited role.
 
Agreed on Jones. Classic case of asking a role player to do too much. His limitations got exposed. Same with Mussini IMO. I think he'll be more efficient this year in a more limited role.
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The staff had no choice
CJ and Mussini had to play roles they were not best suited for last year
I agree that Mussini will be more effective this year
He won't be the primary ball handler and can concentrate on spotting up for his shot
He is a good stand still shooter but is not good off the dribble
I can see LoVett and Ponds penetrating and dishing to Mussini at the 3 point line
 
Agreed on Jones. Classic case of asking a role player to do too much. His limitations got exposed. Same with Mussini IMO. I think he'll be more efficient this year in a more limited role.
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The problem with Mussini was asking him to handle the ball so much. Should be more efficient playing off the ball for sure. Jury is still out however, if he could be effective as he is limited defensively.
 
Agreed on Jones. Classic case of asking a role player to do too much. His limitations got exposed. Same with Mussini IMO. I think he'll be more efficient this year in a more limited role.
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The problem with Mussini was asking him to handle the ball so much. Should be more efficient playing off the ball for sure. Jury is still out however, if he could be effective as he is limited defensively.
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If Mussini was going to be useful at his size it was going to be his ability to play some serviceable point guard. While he might be more efficient at the two, the usefulness of him there is going to be severely limited to about 10 mins a game.
 
Agreed on Jones. Classic case of asking a role player to do too much. His limitations got exposed. Same with Mussini IMO. I think he'll be more efficient this year in a more limited role.
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The problem with Mussini was asking him to handle the ball so much. Should be more efficient playing off the ball for sure. Jury is still out however, if he could be effective as he is limited defensively.
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If Mussini was going to be useful at his size it was going to be his ability to play some serviceable point guard. While he might be more efficient at the two, the usefulness of him there is going to be severely limited to about 10 mins a game.
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When you listen to some very good coaches, they will usually say that the goal is to put guys on the floor that give you the overall advantage. Seems simple enough, but good coaches can create all sorts of mismatches that the other coach has to respond to or lose. Mussini's lack of size and speed may limit when he is able to be on the floor (vs. a pair of 6'4" fast guards for example) but to a greater extent, if used properly, Mussini can stretch zone defenses by forcing teams to cover us on the perimeter instead of packing it in. If Mussini is effective, he may put taller but slower players who can't cover as much zone on the bench to counteract his range. One thing is certain IMO from last season is that he has got to make better decisions when he chooses to take the ball to the hoop and must do so with less frequency - it usually ended badly when he attempted to drive. Such decisions should be made when he catches the defense napping, and just to keep defenders honest in playing him to closely far from the basket. If Mussini can play at all, his effectiveness will be in part due to Mullin's staff using him as a situational player and not have him on the floor when he doesn't create a mismatch of sorts.
 
Agreed on Jones. Classic case of asking a role player to do too much. His limitations got exposed. Same with Mussini IMO. I think he'll be more efficient this year in a more limited role.
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The problem with Mussini was asking him to handle the ball so much. Should be more efficient playing off the ball for sure. Jury is still out however, if he could be effective as he is limited defensively.
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If Mussini was going to be useful at his size it was going to be his ability to play some serviceable point guard. While he might be more efficient at the two, the usefulness of him there is going to be severely limited to about 10 mins a game.
Click to expand...

When you listen to some very good coaches, they will usually say that the goal is to put guys on the floor that give you the overall advantage. Seems simple enough, but good coaches can create all sorts of mismatches that the other coach has to respond to or lose. Mussini's lack of size and speed may limit when he is able to be on the floor (vs. a pair of 6'4" fast guards for example) but to a greater extent, if used properly, Mussini can stretch zone defenses by forcing teams to cover us on the perimeter instead of packing it in. If Mussini is effective, he may put taller but slower players who can't cover as much zone on the bench to counteract his range. One thing is certain IMO from last season is that he has got to make better decisions when he chooses to take the ball to the hoop and must do so with less frequency - it usually ended badly when he attempted to drive. Such decisions should be made when he catches the defense napping, and just to keep defenders honest in playing him to closely far from the basket. If Mussini can play at all, his effectiveness will be in part due to Mullin's staff using him as a situational player and not have him on the floor when he doesn't create a mismatch of sorts.
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And if the conditioning pays off, occasionally being better able to play through contact,
 
When you listen to some very good coaches, they will usually say that the goal is to put guys on the floor that give you the overall advantage. Seems simple enough, but good coaches can create all sorts of mismatches that the other coach has to respond to or lose. Mussini's lack of size and speed may limit when he is able to be on the floor (vs. a pair of 6'4" fast guards for example) but to a greater extent, if used properly, Mussini can stretch zone defenses by forcing teams to cover us on the perimeter instead of packing it in. If Mussini is effective, he may put taller but slower players who can't cover as much zone on the bench to counteract his range. One thing is certain IMO from last season is that he has got to make better decisions when he chooses to take the ball to the hoop and must do so with less frequency - it usually ended badly when he attempted to drive. Such decisions should be made when he catches the defense napping, and just to keep defenders honest in playing him to closely far from the basket. If Mussini can play at all, his effectiveness will be in part due to Mullin's staff using him as a situational player and not have him on the floor when he doesn't create a mismatch of sorts.
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agreed. he was overmatched in many scenarios on both ends but we didn't have any answers on the bench. Now that we have 4 guards as well as Bashir who looks like he has a handle, it will be different and I think Mussini has a role. IMHO his shooting percentages are going to go up. Less pressure, less minutes, fresher legs.
 
I'm higher on Mussini than others seem to be. As a freshman, I thought he did an admirable job. His numbers were abysmal (and got worse as the season progressed), but that was due to the circumstances, e.g., being forced to play 29 mpg at pg when Lovett was ruled out, overuse, lack of depth, and lack of talent on the team. While he's a combo guard, he leans more toward a shooting guard than a point. This year he may play more point than he should. But once we get Simon next year, he'll be more of a shooting guard. I think the flexibility that Mussini (as well as others) gives us will give Coach the ability to create mismatches. Mussini shot 35% from 3-pt land while overseas, and between 40-45% in some tournaments. By his senior year I predict he'll shoot 42-43% from 3, and score about 8-10 ppg as a rotational player.
 
I'm higher on Mussini than others seem to be. As a freshman, I thought he did an admirable job. His numbers were abysmal (and got worse as the season progressed), but that was due to the circumstances, e.g., being forced to play 29 mpg at pg when Lovett was ruled out, overuse, lack of depth, and lack of talent on the team. While he's a combo guard, he leans more toward a shooting guard than a point. This year he may play more point than he should. But once we get Simon next year, he'll be more of a shooting guard. I think the flexibility that Mussini (as well as others) gives us will give Coach the ability to create mismatches. Mussini shot 35% from 3-pt land while overseas, and between 40-45% in some tournaments. By his senior year I predict he'll shoot 42-43% from 3, and score about 8-10 ppg as a rotational player.
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I'm also high on him because he was a freshman being asked to handle a heavy workload. Not expecting 15 ppg, but someone who can stretch the floor is always a plus and something we havent had consistently for a while.
 
going far afield on this topic but recent quotes from Mussini and Mullin related to the issues of guards and matchups:

Mussini: ''Every one of us can play both guard positions,'' Mussini said. ''When we play together, anyone of us can control the ball and that will allow us to run more.''

Mullin:
''One of the biggest advantages we will have this year is being able to play multiple lineups,'' he said. ''We practice different lineups to see who functions well together and we've liked a lot of different combinations. We might want to force another team to play big or small and we have the ability to do that now.''
 
I'm higher on Mussini than others seem to be. As a freshman, I thought he did an admirable job. His numbers were abysmal (and got worse as the season progressed), but that was due to the circumstances, e.g., being forced to play 29 mpg at pg when Lovett was ruled out, overuse, lack of depth, and lack of talent on the team. While he's a combo guard, he leans more toward a shooting guard than a point. This year he may play more point than he should. But once we get Simon next year, he'll be more of a shooting guard. I think the flexibility that Mussini (as well as others) gives us will give Coach the ability to create mismatches. Mussini shot 35% from 3-pt land while overseas, and between 40-45% in some tournaments. By his senior year I predict he'll shoot 42-43% from 3, and score about 8-10 ppg as a rotational player.
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Very fair expectations.
This is a big year for Mussini and Ellison. With Simon being eligible next year, one of them will be pushed out
 
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