Chemistry a Problem / N.Y. Post
- Thread starter jerseyshorejohnny
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I wouldn't sleep on our next two games. Wagner was picked to win the NEC, and Bucknell has always been a good mid-major, with a reputation for pulling off stunners. We should win those games, but it won't be easy.
Also, those are still major-conference teams that we play in the Barclays Classic, so anything can happen on any given day with those types of matchups.
We're not playing Murders Row, but we're not exactly playing a Virginia Tech-like schedule either.
He very well might be our best defender (not saying much) but is anyone in agreeance with me that Dom is very overrated on that end? He's good off the ball when it comes to blocks and picking off lazy passes but his on the ball defense leaves so much to be desired. And it's sad because he has all the tools, quick feet, strong frame etc.. He just doesn't have the instincts and never adjusts to the way the game is being played. I think his reputation far outweighs his performance.
Ray Morgan
Well-known member
People here seem to underestimate the importance of chemistry, and the difficulty of developing it when incorporating new recruits. For instance, players from the 1997-1998 team had to be introduced to a brand new point guard and a new shooting guard when the 1998-1999 season started. Imagine that, a brand new starting back court. The result? A 28-9 record and a bucket shy of the Final Four. Yes, there were two losses in a row after a 3 and 0 start. A bucket defeat to a 26-7 Stanford team, and a point loss to a Purdue team that went to the Eastern Regional semifinal. The point is that the development of chemistry is important, but seems to happen quicker if you have very good players. SJU has very good leapers and very good wing spans. If the final score was based on the same criteria as the NBA combines, book us into the Final Four now. Since score is actually kept based on putting the ball in the basket while the other guy is pressured to turn the ball over or miss, this "chemistry" issue needs to be resolved soon.
Erick Barckley, the new point guard, was a mature and savvy kid who filled that PG spot from the moment he stepped on the court. He was 20 or 21 I believe when he first suited up for us. He fit right in on that team which returned 3 starters, 2 of whom(Artest and Jessie) he played with on the Riverside church team, plus Ty Grant who saw a lot of PT the year before. The loss of Felipe and Z was actually addition by subtraction. IMO neither was as good as their stats. Where as Artest, Grant, Postell and Barckley were all very good college players who complimented each other very well on the court.
I've been saying the same thing for a while. He's great off the ball, but he can't stop quick guards. He also has no idea how to handle screens. As a team, SJU Gets lost on screens more than any team you will see all season. Dom is good for at least one or two pointless fouls a game. I can't stand sending kids to the line for fits because of a hand check 30 feet for the basket in the bonus.
As far as chemistry, the backcourt has to gel the guys need to work out roles. I think this will happen by conference play. The bigger problem with chemistry might be Sanchez. Since he can do a little. It if everything, his role will be the toughest to define. I think we need him inside more than we saw against Wisconsin. As it is, GG is our only back-to-the-basket scoring threat.
The biggest thing for Hooper is that he can't feel like he needs to come in and - because he's only going to be in for 2 minutes - attempt and make a 3. The results will be lower-percentage, contested shots which will result in him looking like a less effective shooter than he is.
To maximize Max's utility he has to play completely within himself. Space the floor and when he gets looks, knock them down at a high clip. If he doens't do that we can't help him out much in terms of finding a way to justify his continued presence in the rotation.
But sometimes it feels like we don't do enough (either through simple drive and kick/ball reversal or running a set) to get a shooter a look. The shooter then compensates by seeking out a look, which often results in a miss and a substitution soon to follow. Max needs to feel like he can be patient in terms of taking any shots at all, and that he has the equity to play through a few misses (assuming he's shown he's going to make his share over the long haul). If he gets comfortable he'll be adding value just by virtue of checking into the game, forcing defenses to choose between him and a penetrator.
I'm not saying this scenario has developed yet, but it often felt last year like too much was riding on Marco's first 3, and Friday it felt similar with Max. If Max is going to be an effective piece through us, it won't be under those circumstances.
To maximize Max's utility he has to play completely within himself. Space the floor and when he gets looks, knock them down at a high clip. If he doens't do that we can't help him out much in terms of finding a way to justify his continued presence in the rotation.
But sometimes it feels like we don't do enough (either through simple drive and kick/ball reversal or running a set) to get a shooter a look. The shooter then compensates by seeking out a look, which often results in a miss and a substitution soon to follow. Max needs to feel like he can be patient in terms of taking any shots at all, and that he has the equity to play through a few misses (assuming he's shown he's going to make his share over the long haul). If he gets comfortable he'll be adding value just by virtue of checking into the game, forcing defenses to choose between him and a penetrator.
I'm not saying this scenario has developed yet, but it often felt last year like too much was riding on Marco's first 3, and Friday it felt similar with Max. If Max is going to be an effective piece through us, it won't be under those circumstances.
Last year Marco came here, and he was compared to Paxson/Kerr. He don`t play though. This year Hooper can play, but he never left the bench at Harvard. So lets see we got 2 shhoters who hardly play.
Did Lavin recruit them to light it up vs mid major but sit vs. the good teams? wtf did Lavn want those two.
I thought Lavin didn`t want to waste ships on these types of players.Cou;ld he possibly just possibly recruit some top sharp shooters instead of projects.
This is his 4th year and the 3rd with his kids. They are not a young immature team anymore and can`t say they don`t have depth unlike the last 2 years. If they are not good this year and just hype then it does fall on him, it is his recruits. I know some of you say this isn`t his make or break year. ok lets see, Sanchez, GG, Marco will be gone. Sampson could be gone, Jordan if he`s as good as advertised. That`s 5 ships that could be available.
Branch, Harrison, Obekpa, Pointer, and Jones would I guess start with Green and Balamou off the bench.
Now if they`re only avg with all that talent then trust me the top ballers will say "with that loaded team why are they not top material and hesitate to come to sju. Like it or not this is a freaking HUGEEE year for Lavin and I don`t care what anybody says.
Lastly in my rant, why were they not prepared for Wisconsin? If they were then why were the down 18 in the first 15minutes?
These questions gotta be asked, I mean it`s not like SJU is like how it was 2 years ago or even last year. They are suppose to be a good team this year. Don`t even say I`m a Lavin hater. I became a member on here right after we got him and I made this user name. I want the REDMEN back this year, screw saying oh next year, oh next year, oh next year, why not this freaking year finally.
Did Lavin recruit them to light it up vs mid major but sit vs. the good teams? wtf did Lavn want those two.
I thought Lavin didn`t want to waste ships on these types of players.Cou;ld he possibly just possibly recruit some top sharp shooters instead of projects.
This is his 4th year and the 3rd with his kids. They are not a young immature team anymore and can`t say they don`t have depth unlike the last 2 years. If they are not good this year and just hype then it does fall on him, it is his recruits. I know some of you say this isn`t his make or break year. ok lets see, Sanchez, GG, Marco will be gone. Sampson could be gone, Jordan if he`s as good as advertised. That`s 5 ships that could be available.
Branch, Harrison, Obekpa, Pointer, and Jones would I guess start with Green and Balamou off the bench.
Now if they`re only avg with all that talent then trust me the top ballers will say "with that loaded team why are they not top material and hesitate to come to sju. Like it or not this is a freaking HUGEEE year for Lavin and I don`t care what anybody says.
Lastly in my rant, why were they not prepared for Wisconsin? If they were then why were the down 18 in the first 15minutes?
These questions gotta be asked, I mean it`s not like SJU is like how it was 2 years ago or even last year. They are suppose to be a good team this year. Don`t even say I`m a Lavin hater. I became a member on here right after we got him and I made this user name. I want the REDMEN back this year, screw saying oh next year, oh next year, oh next year, why not this freaking year finally.
I don't post often, but I do follow this board & team as they have been a part of my life for >25 years. A couple of take-aways as I was not surprised we lost to Wisconsin, which was much more disciplined & better coached even though we seemed to be more talented.
1. I think this team will go as far as Jordan will take them. I know its tough to put that on a frosh PG, but from what I saw he can/will be special and its the only real difference maker I saw between last year & this. Harrison looked about the same, Sampson showed some improvement but still settles for the J, and Sanchez with 1 year may have flashes but I didn't see an NBA caliber player. I hope they prove me wrong. The majority of 2011 was because of Hardy, who had a lights out year but also thus was able to demand attention leaving open looks for the rest of the team. I remember Kennedy benefitting the most from this on the wing.
2. Poor shooting a direct reflection of lack of offensive sets. A lot of discussion on here about our poor shooting, but how many open 3's do we actually generate? Most all of Harrison's are rushed / contested. Hooper's shot was on the move with a defender close. Compare to Wisconsin (and many other teams we played last year) whose shooters had their feet set ready to shoot when they caught the ball. I'm sure Harrison / Hooper can convert a higher percentage if the offense can get them similar looks, but it will require dribble penetration from Jordan, good ball movement on wings, and a dominant big man who demands double teams against man-to-man or breaks the zone in the middle & is smart / capable enough to kick it out to the open guy. Can Jordan or Harrison succeed a-la Hardy in 2011 in drawing multiple defenders & then making the right pass - this will be key as unfortunately I haven't seen disciplined ball movement, nor a big man who fits the bill as Sampson is a face-up player who isn't a great passer and it doesn't look like Sanchez is much different in that he seems more comfortable starting from the outside, although perhaps he can be the guy in the middle against the zone as he can pass. Gift is the closest we have to a back-to-the basket player, and he doesn't command the double team.
3. Foul shooting even more critical this year - with the new rules we'll be in the bonus / double bonus a much higher % of the game. This means our foul shooting will play a larger role in our success. This scares me, although the 1st game has shown some improvement here (13/16 in 2nd half)
4. Defense - consistently allowing open looks. With this teams athleticism / quickness and depth I'm not sure why we don't play straight up man-to-man, albeit it needs to be more disciplined on the ball with the new rules. Unless the other team has 1-2 dominant big men (like Josh Smith at G-Town) I'm not really a fan of the zone as time and time we seem to be over-aggressive leaving open looks against almost any team that has a coach with good offensive sets & moves the ball.
Sorry for the long post not meant to be anything more than sharing my perspectives. Unfortunately I think the coaching is marginal, as our success in 2011 was largely due to Hardy's ability to shoot & break down defenses. I haven't seen anything different in the last 3 years which is why I believe that our success will ultimately come down to the talent of whoever has the ball most often, which I personally hope is Jordan from what I've seen on the floor.
1. I think this team will go as far as Jordan will take them. I know its tough to put that on a frosh PG, but from what I saw he can/will be special and its the only real difference maker I saw between last year & this. Harrison looked about the same, Sampson showed some improvement but still settles for the J, and Sanchez with 1 year may have flashes but I didn't see an NBA caliber player. I hope they prove me wrong. The majority of 2011 was because of Hardy, who had a lights out year but also thus was able to demand attention leaving open looks for the rest of the team. I remember Kennedy benefitting the most from this on the wing.
2. Poor shooting a direct reflection of lack of offensive sets. A lot of discussion on here about our poor shooting, but how many open 3's do we actually generate? Most all of Harrison's are rushed / contested. Hooper's shot was on the move with a defender close. Compare to Wisconsin (and many other teams we played last year) whose shooters had their feet set ready to shoot when they caught the ball. I'm sure Harrison / Hooper can convert a higher percentage if the offense can get them similar looks, but it will require dribble penetration from Jordan, good ball movement on wings, and a dominant big man who demands double teams against man-to-man or breaks the zone in the middle & is smart / capable enough to kick it out to the open guy. Can Jordan or Harrison succeed a-la Hardy in 2011 in drawing multiple defenders & then making the right pass - this will be key as unfortunately I haven't seen disciplined ball movement, nor a big man who fits the bill as Sampson is a face-up player who isn't a great passer and it doesn't look like Sanchez is much different in that he seems more comfortable starting from the outside, although perhaps he can be the guy in the middle against the zone as he can pass. Gift is the closest we have to a back-to-the basket player, and he doesn't command the double team.
3. Foul shooting even more critical this year - with the new rules we'll be in the bonus / double bonus a much higher % of the game. This means our foul shooting will play a larger role in our success. This scares me, although the 1st game has shown some improvement here (13/16 in 2nd half)
4. Defense - consistently allowing open looks. With this teams athleticism / quickness and depth I'm not sure why we don't play straight up man-to-man, albeit it needs to be more disciplined on the ball with the new rules. Unless the other team has 1-2 dominant big men (like Josh Smith at G-Town) I'm not really a fan of the zone as time and time we seem to be over-aggressive leaving open looks against almost any team that has a coach with good offensive sets & moves the ball.
Sorry for the long post not meant to be anything more than sharing my perspectives. Unfortunately I think the coaching is marginal, as our success in 2011 was largely due to Hardy's ability to shoot & break down defenses. I haven't seen anything different in the last 3 years which is why I believe that our success will ultimately come down to the talent of whoever has the ball most often, which I personally hope is Jordan from what I've seen on the floor.
chemistry wasn't the problem. this was game eight if you include the five in europe, which admittedly was a tourist trip, and the two exhibitions.
lavin was outsmarted, which resulted in a 27 point differential in three pointers. he can't figure out how to stop uncontested threes. he should look at what the other coaches do to us and emulate that.
we have the best depth i've seen in 50 years. we're not using it. we should be pressuring the ball in the back court. when someone gets tired, he sits. another benefit to that is we won't have players worrying about playing time.
i know wisconsin was supposed to win. the game was reffed as if the guys in stripes had a few bucks on the game. that took us out of our game early leaving us with a huge mountain to climb. when we got it back to four, they began blowing their whistles again...and don't tell me about the new rules.
i'm just hoping the coaches and players have learned something from this. i'd hate to see us lose to one of the mid majors we play up to the syracuse game.
lavin was outsmarted, which resulted in a 27 point differential in three pointers. he can't figure out how to stop uncontested threes. he should look at what the other coaches do to us and emulate that.
we have the best depth i've seen in 50 years. we're not using it. we should be pressuring the ball in the back court. when someone gets tired, he sits. another benefit to that is we won't have players worrying about playing time.
i know wisconsin was supposed to win. the game was reffed as if the guys in stripes had a few bucks on the game. that took us out of our game early leaving us with a huge mountain to climb. when we got it back to four, they began blowing their whistles again...and don't tell me about the new rules.
i'm just hoping the coaches and players have learned something from this. i'd hate to see us lose to one of the mid majors we play up to the syracuse game.
Ray Morgan
Well-known member
The love affair with Hooper comes from a nearly complete absence of shooters at SJU since the 3 point shot was added to the rulebook. Anyone even rumored to be a shooter is looked at as the answer. It's like seeing a mirage in the desert. Shooting open 3's in an empty gym means next to nothing. It doesn't help that the offense isn't geared to take advantage of shooters.
Wisconsin looks better coached because Ryan recruits players to fit his system. Guys who go there want to play in that system, as it fits their game well. Give him our players, and don't expect the same results.
Lavin is recruiting, so far, the athletic but raw talent with NBA dreams. The guys used to jumping over players instead of learning to box out. Players that don't have to shoot well because their scoring options are mainly the dunk. When he gets one that also has certain skill sets like Harkless, they are gone after one season. Jordan fits that description. I agree with the poster that says Jordan is the key. He can penetrate and find others, or finish at the rim. He looks like he has a mid range jumper also. Without him doing that, every coach will want to play us in the half court game. Our weakness.
Wisconsin looks better coached because Ryan recruits players to fit his system. Guys who go there want to play in that system, as it fits their game well. Give him our players, and don't expect the same results.
Lavin is recruiting, so far, the athletic but raw talent with NBA dreams. The guys used to jumping over players instead of learning to box out. Players that don't have to shoot well because their scoring options are mainly the dunk. When he gets one that also has certain skill sets like Harkless, they are gone after one season. Jordan fits that description. I agree with the poster that says Jordan is the key. He can penetrate and find others, or finish at the rim. He looks like he has a mid range jumper also. Without him doing that, every coach will want to play us in the half court game. Our weakness.
Keady is retired.
Some posters here ask why he isnt helping Lavins X & Os stratagem in an official capacity. Its because he is not a coach and not allowed. Why not in an unofficial capacity, like when the staff are alone in the office drawing things up of the board? I asked myself this question last year and came to the conclusion that the guy is really not keeping the same sort of hours as the coaches on the staff. He is retired. When they are in late night meetings he is out enjoying life. His job is as Lavins advisor and Obi-Wan, he doesn have the energy for long practice strategy anymore.
Hopefully we start to see Whitesells influence in the coming games. Otherwise this will be a dissapointing bubble team whos season will end with a 1st round tourney exit.
I'm so sick of seeing people say we should've pressed full-court. Wisconsin was passing to open shooters when we were in a half court D, if we were running around with our heads off they would've had a passing and shooting clinic and would've won by 30.
Our answer on defense is pretty obvious, we need to help MUCH less. Whether they are in man or zone, the guys need to just stick to their responsibilities. Don't collapse or help on another player, just stay with your man or in your area.
Our answer on defense is pretty obvious, we need to help MUCH less. Whether they are in man or zone, the guys need to just stick to their responsibilities. Don't collapse or help on another player, just stay with your man or in your area.
Without reading the article, if chemistry is a problem that falls on Lav's shoulders. And it starts with his refusal to stick to a rotation early in a season. This isn't a tryout. You are either game-ready or you aren't. And the largest disservice is to the player who gets 120 seconds to prove himself before Steve pulls him from the game. Get a 9-man rotation going with Jordan, Harrison, Greene, Branch, Pointer, Sanchez, Sampson, Obekpa and 1 other player. Gift and Hooper each played 5 useless minutes last week, Of the Hooper, GG, Bourgault, and Balamou group just give 1 guy a decent crack with 10+ min/game. Depth is overrated, it's about the quality you put out there.