Big East & UConn

[Class of 72]

Bringing them back would be great for the league. The expectation must be that they will try to jump ship again when an opportunity arises that is more profitable. A costly escape clause should be a requirement for re-entry. Bring in Dayton with them and settle for a league of 12.

Can't stand them, but UConn joining the Big East would only make the conference stronger -- which is preferable to making one the power conferences stronger. We shouldn't be so fast to cut off our nose to spite our face. Agree, a super costly escape clause -- and a very hefty entry fee -- would be mandatory. And if they opt out in 10 years, so be it. In the meanwhile, their membership in the BE (along with Dayton or another solid program) would only make the BE, and not one of the Big 5 conferences, stronger.

One of those sounds logical things that you need to dig a little deeper. There is a reason why Yukon's first, second and third choices have spurned them. They see the same logic but they are wiser.

Yes, the reason is they are football conferences where the basketball revenue is secondary. Doesn't apply to the BE obviously.

NCAA football wealth is a myth. It applies to +/- 10 programs. Even within conference for those schools the benefit is not a net profit to everyone else. There are so many other reasons that schools and conferences push football and all athletics. As long as it it funded by taxpayers, the game is to feed the machine. Yukon with unlimited state funds and a massive commitment to infrastructure is bottom line attractive whether it is pulling in 10k to a stadium or 50k.

Aside from that there is an unspoken resentment towards the historical relationship between Yukon and ESPN. Schools with a memory are leery and will always consider it suspect. Yukon is also looked upon nationwide as a dirty player. These things factor no matter how much pragmatists want to ignore them as irrelevant. The ACC has not spurned Yukon for financial reasons and ultimately they'll probably suck them in reluctantly since they increasingly resemble the SEC rather than the Ivy League in terms of standards.

If the ACC sucks them in it would only be due to politicians pressuring ESPN because of the tax breaks from operating in the state of Connecticut but even that could backfire since North Carolina could offer them prime real estate in the triangle. It would not be due to football potential where Uconn fudge their attendance where actual attendance is usually 20% lower than announced attendance. It's football would place them at the very bottom of the ACC and although their revenue would increase over many years over the pittance they get now losing a bundle of tax payer money there is no guarantee they will ever operate in the black in football. While they would remain competitive in basketball their football program may be condemned to 16th place forever. I would think long and hard if I were a Connecticut tax payer and a football fan in particular.

 

[BOB BARKER]

AGREE BIG EAST SHOULD ADMIT UCONN... ACC MAY ADMIT THEM JUST TO KEEP BIG EAST AS MID MAJOR..AND NOT GROW BACK AS MAJOR RIVAL...SORT OF LIKE ROME VS CARTHAGE....AND AS SOMEONE SAID EARLIER A BIG EXIT FEE IN THEIR CASE WOULD BE APPROPRIATE..

 

[paultzman]

AGREE BIG EAST SHOULD ADMIT UCONN... ACC MAY ADMIT THEM JUST TO KEEP BIG EAST AS MID MAJOR..AND NOT GROW BACK AS MAJOR RIVAL...SORT OF LIKE ROME VS CARTHAGE....AND AS SOMEONE SAID EARLIER A BIG EXIT FEE IN THEIR CASE WOULD BE APPROPRIATE..

Proud of "Mid Major" Nova winning national championship.

 

[JohnnyFan]

AGREE BIG EAST SHOULD ADMIT UCONN... ACC MAY ADMIT THEM JUST TO KEEP BIG EAST AS MID MAJOR..AND NOT GROW BACK AS MAJOR RIVAL...SORT OF LIKE ROME VS CARTHAGE....AND AS SOMEONE SAID EARLIER A BIG EXIT FEE IN THEIR CASE WOULD BE APPROPRIATE..

I AGREE, THE BIG EAST SHOULD CAPITALIZE ON THE OPPORTUNITY.

 

[stuck in conn]

What happens when the big football schools leave the ncaa and start their own association? Imo the ncaa turns into the mid major heaven and all the big recruits go with the football schools. I think every big conference has its own network now and I see the wheels in motion.

 

[Class of 72]

What happens when the big football schools leave the ncaa and start their own association? Imo the ncaa turns into the mid major heaven and all the big recruits go with the football schools. I think every big conference has its own network now and I see the wheels in motion.

You've been stuck in Connecticut too long!
Practically ALL the big 5* recruits have been going to the big "football" schools for years now! That did not stop Villanova and UCONN from winning the NCAA championship or Butler from reaching the Final 4, etc.
Specifically, just a dozen or so schools like Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, Arizona, UCLA, Syracuse, Louisville, Florida, and a few others attract 5 star players. They already have their own football Bowl series outside of the NCAA. The NCAA pulls in $1 billion per year and 80% of that comes from basketball. A writer once said "Would creating a different kind of NCAA Tournament (which would no longer be called the NCAA Tournament) bring more money?" I doubt it considering the lawsuits that would follow and the possibility that players, outside of NCAA restrictions, would unionize and demand salaries equivalent to their talent, etc. And if it happens in 20-30 years old timers like me won't give a crap. Besides, in another 10 years we will have reinstituted the military draft to deal with WWIII and all the so-called "student-athletes" will be deemed to be paid professionals and get drafted and die.
THE END!

 

[redken]

... Besides, in another 10 years we will have reinstituted the military draft to deal with WWIII and all the so-called "student-athletes" will be deemed to be paid professionals and get drafted and die....

Not if there's still a National Guard ... or flat-feet deferments.

 

[redken]

What happens when the big football schools leave the ncaa and start their own association? Imo the ncaa turns into the mid major heaven and all the big recruits go with the football schools. I think every big conference has its own network now and I see the wheels in motion.

There's little doubt that the Power 5 conferences have their eyes set on creating their own athletic association down the road (with the idea of $tudent-athlete taking on new meaning), but for the foreseeable future they're contractually locked into the NCAA. So let's deal with the problem of their creating a super association when it comes to pass. In the meantime, let's hope the Big East does what it can to protect its future and compete with the Power 5 as far as basketball goes ... And adding UConn can go a long way in doing just that, because, despite our collective wishes to the contrary, their program isn't going to collapse and go away -- the only place it will go away to will be a Power 5 conference ... and that's not in our best interests.

 

[ADORAZ]

What happens when the big football schools leave the ncaa and start their own association? Imo the ncaa turns into the mid major heaven and all the big recruits go with the football schools. I think every big conference has its own network now and I see the wheels in motion.

There's zero chance they don't invite the Big East and other major basketball only schools. First, they'd want at least 80-100 schools total so they can keep the 68 team format. If they just use Power Five schools it's impossible to keep the format, and thus they'd be losing out on the major first round.

Second, if they DON'T invite Nova, Georgetown, Xavier, Gonzaga, UConn, Marquette, Wichita, Dayton etc then what happens? The NCAA tournament proceeds because there is still interest in those teams. If they take 1-2 dozen teams, however, then the NCAA tournament is no longer viable.

Really it makes no sense not to invite the Big East, and arguably the A10 and a few other major schools like Gonzaga and Wichita (I don't think AAC will be a significant conference after the Big 12 takes the major schools). The Power Five is concerned about the other 250 schools that get a piece of the pie (the mid and low majors). If they want to create a new tournament, they know it'd be foolish to do so without the major basketball schools. They'd face far less backlash that way, they can keep the 68 team format and the NCAA tournament wouldn't be viable in any form.

 

[logen]

What happens when the big football schools leave the ncaa and start their own association? Imo the ncaa turns into the mid major heaven and all the big recruits go with the football schools. I think every big conference has its own network now and I see the wheels in motion.

There's zero chance they don't invite the Big East and other major basketball only schools. First, they'd want at least 80-100 schools total so they can keep the 68 team format. If they just use Power Five schools it's impossible to keep the format, and thus they'd be losing out on the major first round.

Second, if they DON'T invite Nova, Georgetown, Xavier, Gonzaga, UConn, Marquette, Wichita, Dayton etc then what happens? The NCAA tournament proceeds because there is still interest in those teams. If they take 1-2 dozen teams, however, then the NCAA tournament is no longer viable.

Really it makes no sense not to invite the Big East, and arguably the A10 and a few other major schools like Gonzaga and Wichita (I don't think AAC will be a significant conference after the Big 12 takes the major schools). The Power Five is concerned about the other 250 schools that get a piece of the pie (the mid and low majors). If they want to create a new tournament, they know it'd be foolish to do so without the major basketball schools. They'd face far less backlash that way, they can keep the 68 team format and the NCAA tournament wouldn't be viable in any form.

Sounds logical except sports are now completely driven by TV money. if the Power 5 can sign a lucrative post-season basketball tournament TV contract w/o any other conferences/teams involved they will do so, less players to divide the pie. That scenario is entirely possible if the Power 5 attempt to combine the football and basketball TV contracts. Nothing about the college sports landscape is certain.

 

[TobinGrad]

What happens when the big football schools leave the ncaa and start their own association? Imo the ncaa turns into the mid major heaven and all the big recruits go with the football schools. I think every big conference has its own network now and I see the wheels in motion.

I think its possible, sometime down the road, especially if the BE continues to be one of the better conferences, that the ACC seeks to put an end to Big East conference competition once and for all by attempting to lure St. Johns, Nova or G-Town. (Maybe Marqette)

 

[ADORAZ]

What happens when the big football schools leave the ncaa and start their own association? Imo the ncaa turns into the mid major heaven and all the big recruits go with the football schools. I think every big conference has its own network now and I see the wheels in motion.

There's zero chance they don't invite the Big East and other major basketball only schools. First, they'd want at least 80-100 schools total so they can keep the 68 team format. If they just use Power Five schools it's impossible to keep the format, and thus they'd be losing out on the major first round.

Second, if they DON'T invite Nova, Georgetown, Xavier, Gonzaga, UConn, Marquette, Wichita, Dayton etc then what happens? The NCAA tournament proceeds because there is still interest in those teams. If they take 1-2 dozen teams, however, then the NCAA tournament is no longer viable.

Really it makes no sense not to invite the Big East, and arguably the A10 and a few other major schools like Gonzaga and Wichita (I don't think AAC will be a significant conference after the Big 12 takes the major schools). The Power Five is concerned about the other 250 schools that get a piece of the pie (the mid and low majors). If they want to create a new tournament, they know it'd be foolish to do so without the major basketball schools. They'd face far less backlash that way, they can keep the 68 team format and the NCAA tournament wouldn't be viable in any form.

Sounds logical except sports are now completely driven by TV money. if the Power 5 can sign a lucrative post-season basketball tournament TV contract w/o any other conferences/teams involved they will do so, less players to divide the pie. That scenario is entirely possible if the Power 5 attempt to combine the football and basketball TV contracts. Nothing about the college sports landscape is certain.

I agree everything is about TV money, and you're right nothing is certain, but I think they'd make more money by including the Big East. There's only about 65 P5 teams, so they can't have a 68 team tournament unless every team makes it. Which won't work, the regular season would be irrelevant. Add in the Big East and a dozen other schools and they can have the very important first round. Otherwise, they are dividing the number of teams in half. That's not good business.

In terms of politics, the Big East isn't their enemy, they'd be far more concerned with keeping the G5 schools out. Those are the real threat to them.

Again as you said nothing is certain, but I'm confident the P5 have more of an issue with the other roughly 280 schools being part of the D1 basketball puzzle and not the 10 team Big East.

Frankly I'd be shocked if the day ever came where Nova and Georgetown weren't playing against the P5.

 

[Class of 72]

What happens when the big football schools leave the ncaa and start their own association? Imo the ncaa turns into the mid major heaven and all the big recruits go with the football schools. I think every big conference has its own network now and I see the wheels in motion.

There's zero chance they don't invite the Big East and other major basketball only schools. First, they'd want at least 80-100 schools total so they can keep the 68 team format. If they just use Power Five schools it's impossible to keep the format, and thus they'd be losing out on the major first round.

Second, if they DON'T invite Nova, Georgetown, Xavier, Gonzaga, UConn, Marquette, Wichita, Dayton etc then what happens? The NCAA tournament proceeds because there is still interest in those teams. If they take 1-2 dozen teams, however, then the NCAA tournament is no longer viable.

Really it makes no sense not to invite the Big East, and arguably the A10 and a few other major schools like Gonzaga and Wichita (I don't think AAC will be a significant conference after the Big 12 takes the major schools). The Power Five is concerned about the other 250 schools that get a piece of the pie (the mid and low majors). If they want to create a new tournament, they know it'd be foolish to do so without the major basketball schools. They'd face far less backlash that way, they can keep the 68 team format and the NCAA tournament wouldn't be viable in any form.

Sounds logical except sports are now completely driven by TV money. if the Power 5 can sign a lucrative post-season basketball tournament TV contract w/o any other conferences/teams involved they will do so, less players to divide the pie. That scenario is entirely possible if the Power 5 attempt to combine the football and basketball TV contracts. Nothing about the college sports landscape is certain.

I agree everything is about TV money, and you're right nothing is certain, but I think they'd make more money by including the Big East. There's only about 65 P5 teams, so they can't have a 68 team tournament unless every team makes it. Which won't work, the regular season would be irrelevant. Add in the Big East and a dozen other schools and they can have the very important first round. Otherwise, they are dividing the number of teams in half. That's not good business.

In terms of politics, the Big East isn't their enemy, they'd be far more concerned with keeping the G5 schools out. Those are the real threat to them.

Again as you said nothing is certain, but I'm confident the P5 have more of an issue with the other roughly 280 schools being part of the D1 basketball puzzle and not the 10 team Big East.

Frankly I'd be shocked if the day ever came where Nova and Georgetown weren't playing against the P5.

Who said they need a 68 team tournament? They could easily go to a 32 team format. But that would mean fewer games televised while the NCAA continues its 68 team format with St. John's perennially in the sweet 16 and nationally ranked. The power 5 got what they wanted with football mergers to get TV deals. Doubt they would blow up basketball.

 

[ADORAZ]

What happens when the big football schools leave the ncaa and start their own association? Imo the ncaa turns into the mid major heaven and all the big recruits go with the football schools. I think every big conference has its own network now and I see the wheels in motion.

There's zero chance they don't invite the Big East and other major basketball only schools. First, they'd want at least 80-100 schools total so they can keep the 68 team format. If they just use Power Five schools it's impossible to keep the format, and thus they'd be losing out on the major first round.

Second, if they DON'T invite Nova, Georgetown, Xavier, Gonzaga, UConn, Marquette, Wichita, Dayton etc then what happens? The NCAA tournament proceeds because there is still interest in those teams. If they take 1-2 dozen teams, however, then the NCAA tournament is no longer viable.

Really it makes no sense not to invite the Big East, and arguably the A10 and a few other major schools like Gonzaga and Wichita (I don't think AAC will be a significant conference after the Big 12 takes the major schools). The Power Five is concerned about the other 250 schools that get a piece of the pie (the mid and low majors). If they want to create a new tournament, they know it'd be foolish to do so without the major basketball schools. They'd face far less backlash that way, they can keep the 68 team format and the NCAA tournament wouldn't be viable in any form.

Sounds logical except sports are now completely driven by TV money. if the Power 5 can sign a lucrative post-season basketball tournament TV contract w/o any other conferences/teams involved they will do so, less players to divide the pie. That scenario is entirely possible if the Power 5 attempt to combine the football and basketball TV contracts. Nothing about the college sports landscape is certain.

I agree everything is about TV money, and you're right nothing is certain, but I think they'd make more money by including the Big East. There's only about 65 P5 teams, so they can't have a 68 team tournament unless every team makes it. Which won't work, the regular season would be irrelevant. Add in the Big East and a dozen other schools and they can have the very important first round. Otherwise, they are dividing the number of teams in half. That's not good business.

In terms of politics, the Big East isn't their enemy, they'd be far more concerned with keeping the G5 schools out. Those are the real threat to them.

Again as you said nothing is certain, but I'm confident the P5 have more of an issue with the other roughly 280 schools being part of the D1 basketball puzzle and not the 10 team Big East.

Frankly I'd be shocked if the day ever came where Nova and Georgetown weren't playing against the P5.

Who said they need a 68 team tournament? They could easily go to a 32 team format. But that would mean fewer games televised while the NCAA continues its 68 team format with St. John's perennially in the sweet 16 and nationally ranked. The power 5 got what they wanted with football mergers to get TV deals. Doubt they would blow up basketball.

Hah that'd be interesting to see SJU consistently in the top 25. We may even win a title (but we can't win a Big East tournament game so probably not)

Nobody is saying they need 68 teams in the tournament. It just makes more sense IMO. If you're the power 5, you can either-

A. keep it P5 teams only. 32 teams in tournament rather than 64/68. NCAA tournament continues.
B. Add a couple dozen teams. 64 teams in new tournament. NCAA tournament loses all relevance and ceases to exist.

If the P5 is going to make a basketball tournament, they will make sure the NCAA tournament isn't a thing anymore. It's a very small price to pay just to add some schools, especially when they give you additional benefits like allowing for a 64 team tournament

Also on this topic, a TV extension through 2032 was just signed. Not sure how much relevance that has but it's something.

 

[paultzman]

Ahh politicians!

Ohio governor John Kasich petitioned the Big 12 for Cincinnati http://cin.ci/2arjDxw

 

[Class of 72]

Ahh politicians!

Ohio governor John Kasich petitioned the Big 12 for Cincinnati http://cin.ci/2arjDxw

Cincinnati has a good chance along with Memphis, Houston and SMU but UConn doesn't have a prayer.

 

[stuck in conn]

From what I heard and read they would have 14 schools in each league. When they do go nobody will care about the non football Big East. These football schools can and will do whatever they want. I've got a feeling it's coming sooner rather than later.

 

[MarkRedman]

http://www.rumbleinthegarden.com/20...erest-between-uconn-big-east-big-12-expansion

This has been previously discussed on this site
Apparently, Yukon sees no future in remaining in the AAC
Clearly, Yukon would like to join the Big 12
Should they not be successful, they would be interested in joining the Big East
If accepted, they would look to hook up with another league for football only
To me, any school that left the Big East should never be taken back
Good riddance, Yukon, you made your bed, now you can lie in it!!

 

[Amaseinyourface]

Would definitely help the profile of the league. But im fine with where we are given Gtown, marquette, and us havent even gotten going yet and the league is doing well. Play them from time to time but otherwise let them rot

BTW here is a larger discussion on it.
http://redmen.com/forum/4-redmentalk/45520-big-east-uconn.html

 

[otis]

It would be a no- brainer to admit UConn to the Big East PROVIDED Yukon agrees to (x) an assignment of it's media rights for a 20 year period as the ACC schools have agreed to, or a hefty - say $25M buy out indexed for inflation.