Big East Tourney

[SJU61982]

Georgetown certainly doesn't look like a team playing it's fourth game in 4 days.

​​​​ What are they eating to get that energy? I want to get some of that. Might help if I was 25 years younger.

Well, they don't play a fast tempo, and in the semis and finals, they had about 3 hours more rest then their opponents.  That's why the 1 seed plays at 12 in the afternoon.  It's designed to give them the extra rest, if the seeding holds.

It's not that big of a deal in the NCAA tournament, because the full day off in between games pretty much evens things up.

 

[TheArtest15]

If we did manage to win against the Hall, can't see us beating GT the way they've been playing. Would've probably been worse knowing that winning that game would get a bid. 

"Styles make fights."  I'm still a believer we could've and would've gotten 'em to play our style of game.  That's not to actually say we would've won, but I think we would've drawed 'em into playing our style which, of course, benefits us. 

Wait until a mid-major like Loyola of Chicago wreck Georgetown next week in the dance.....  

they're gonna be 13-12 after this. They won't be seeing a mid major. They'll be seeing probably a 3 or 4 seed in the first round 

Being Georgetown is coming from a major conference, they won't be seeded that low.  Major conference teams do not receive 12 seeds or lower.

The lowest I see them seeded is around 11th and the highest being a 9th.  They could see a mid major like Loyola of Chicago, as I think they'll be a 7th seed.

There is no way they will be a 7 seed. Uconn won the big east  tourney in 2011 and they are way better than this Georgetown team and had a better season and they were a 9 seed in the NCAA tourney. 

Loyola of Chicago will likely be a 7th seed.  Read again, my man.

Dink, my apoligies, totally misread the thread. My bad my man. 

 

[TheArtest15]

Georgetown certainly doesn't look like a team playing it's fourth game in 4 days.

​​​​ What are they eating to get that energy? I want to get some of that. Might help if I was 25 years younger.

Didnt you say they had no chance of winning the tourney because of 4 games in 4 days?

 

[TheArtest15]

73-48 Georgetown

That's an old fashioned beat down.

At least we don't have to see Georgetown in the NIT. They earned a place at the big dance.

Thanks captain obvious! Love your enthusaism with your posts but they are so captain obvious no offense. Is ark still your number 1 squad? 

 

[SJU85]

You have faulty memory. The providence event was not as large scale as you suggest and occurred in 1983.

[URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com...r-siege/a17fe474-6ec8-42a9-8ad6-19880d4d9990/[/URL]

I was there for every ewing sju home game, every bet, once in Landover,  and the final four.  Definitely the most hated opposing player, at least largely because he was so dominating on defense and anchored the hoya destroys thing

I stand corrected. And as a student at that time, (81-85), I also attended every home game and the Final Four. (Never made it to Landover). 
I hated G'town with the heat of 1,000 suns. Now...not so much.  The Ewing Knicks years flipped me on him...and them. Unlike UConn which bolted for the door, G'town fought to keep the league together. Gotta admire that.

I agree with you on most points, made all of the home games and Landover too.  However UConn did not bolt for the door because they never had a chance, the other big conferences didn't want them.  If they had, you would be correct and they would have bolted.  They uttimately lleft the Bog East be  cause when the basketball schools decided to spit, they didn't want them due to UConn's FBS status.  The fact that UConn was allowed back in by the same people who didn't want them in originally was a sign of desperation IMHO by the Big East and a lifeline to UConn.

I am happy for Georgetown, they earned it.

 

[SJU85]

Im jealous too!   Georgetown is doing what I hoped we would have gone. 

Embarassing performance be Creighton.  


Following a series of embarrassing games by just about every BE team (with IMO Providence/DePaul taking the cake). In other words, this year's tournament has shown just how mediocre the conference was this year. It needs to restock or suffer some serious damage to its reputation, especially given the strength and depth of the Big 10, SEC, and Big 12. Reminds me of 1993's ugly tournament (I think it was 1993), when six personal fouls were allowed and when the MSG roof was damaged and rain poured down ... followed by CBS not renewing its contract for BE games. Oy vey.







 

Hopefully this will be only a blip as the League has been good with some very good teams in the past few years.  This year however, mediocre is a good description.

 

[kranmars]

Oh goody. Ewing wins another trophy with Georgetown after going on a championship hiatus while with the Knicks.

These are times I hate sports.

 

[beast of the east]

You have faulty memory. The providence event was not as large scale as you suggest and occurred in 1983.

[URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com...r-siege/a17fe474-6ec8-42a9-8ad6-19880d4d9990/[/URL]

I was there for every ewing sju home game, every bet, once in Landover,  and the final four.  Definitely the most hated opposing player, at least largely because he was so dominating on defense and anchored the hoya destroys thing

I stand corrected. And as a student at that time, (81-85), I also attended every home game and the Final Four. (Never made it to Landover). 
I hated G'town with the heat of 1,000 suns. Now...not so much.  The Ewing Knicks years flipped me on him...and them. Unlike UConn which bolted for the door, G'town fought to keep the league together. Gotta admire that.

I agree with you on most points, made all of the home games and Landover too.  However UConn did not bolt for the door because they never had a chance, the other big conferences didn't want them.  If they had, you would be correct and they would have bolted.  They uttimately lleft the Bog East be  cause when the basketball schools decided to spit, they didn't want them due to UConn's FBS status.  The fact that UConn was allowed back in by the same people who didn't want them in originally was a sign of desperation IMHO by the Big East and a lifeline to UConn.

I am happy for Georgetown, they earned it.

It's okay. It was 40 years ago when Ewing made his MSG debut.    SJU fans then were just curious to see if Ewing was the real deal or not, and at that point had no reason for any disdain towards him.  I remember seeing Ewing extend his arms in a defensive stance on our first possession and thought, "How crap, his arms extend across almost the entire lane" , which was an illusion since the lane is 12 feet wide.   Still it looked as intimidating as hell.   Without question, Ewing, on defense alone, was the most dominating college player I had ever seen, including Alcindor (with limited TV access).   Alcindor had an incredible supporting cast.   Ewing's was merely very good, but even with NBA stars Mourning and Mutombo, Georgetown wasn't quite the same.

The article I posted, from the hometown Washington Post, made reference to the fact that Ewing brought a lot of the disdain on himself.  Strategically, Thompson enjoyed the intimidation factor that the Hoyas brought with them, as he felt it gave them an edge.    He loved to portray his team as the roughhouse villains, and it got into opponent's heads.  Certianly he mellowed over the years.   The article also references how none other than Mike Jarvis, Ewing's HS coach, heavily influenced the notion that Ewing wasn't very bright by emailing 150 colleges alerting them to the fact that he had learning disability and would need special care.   

As a diehard redman fan, I never could embrace Ewing as a Knick.   He was projected to be as dominating as BIll Russell defensively, and instead was more of a scorer than a stopper.    The missed finger roll as time expired in the 1995 game 7 vs. the Pacers in a 2 point loss sort of summarized his career for me.    I always felt Michael Jordan became close friends with stars on opposing teams as a way of dominating them on the court.    I would much rather have seem the surly, behemoth that was the centerpiece of the Georgetown who played every minute with fire and anger.

My kids played an awful lot at the Island Garden in West Hempstead, for the Lightning AAU teams that Posh and Wusu were part of.   There was non-stop basketball 12 months a year, from league play in the summer and during the school year, to a large AAU program.    During the 1998-99 NBA strike, by the time things were settled, the Knicks practice facility, SUNY Purchase was not available.   For several weeks, the Island Garden cleared their schedule, and the Knicks worked out there.    At the end of the sessions, Jim Fox or someone else at the Garden grabbed a large easel pad, and asked the Knick players and coaches to sign it.   Every player willingly did so, as a sort of thank you to the facility for letting them practice there.   All except one, Patrick Ewing, who offered no reason, but refused to sign.    The paper had no real value, and for years (maybe even today) the Island Garden had it framed and mounted on a wall there.  The absence of a Ewing signature is glaring.    

Sorry, the guy can be a jerk at times, and his Knick career, Hall of Fame and all, fell far short of the expectation when the Knicks won the lottery.

Still, as an original Big East team, I'm happy for their underdog rise to the BET championship.   When the dust settles, perhaps we will look at this year's BET as another chapter in the SJU woulda coulda shoulda history.


.   

 

[espken]

Sorry, the guy can be a jerk at times, and his Knick career, Hall of Fame and all, fell far short of the expectation when the Knicks won the lottery.

Still, as an original Big East team, I'm happy for their underdog rise to the BET championship.   When the dust settles, perhaps we will look at this year's BET as another chapter in the SJU woulda coulda shoulda history.

Love him or hate him, the guy wears his Georgetown badge with honor. Always did during his 30+ years in the NBA as player/coach. 

As for us, we continue to be the pumpkin waiting to be turned back into a carriage.

 

[SLYFOXX1968]

Hard to understand how poorly Creighton played Saturday night after the gutsy Win Friday over UConn .. Maybe they thought the Hoyas would be walkovers ?  Anyway , for whatever reason , Creighton looked more like a Team that had no clue how to play BB .  Jefferson , Bishop, Mahoney had terrible games . Mahoney was especially terrible ! Yet , he kept hoisting them up , like he was the focal point of the team . Bishop looked like he turned a Ankle early and tried to play through it . But , he was not himself . Neither was Jefferson or Ballock . Zegarowski played ok , not great .  McDermott looked helpless on the sidelines and could not rally his team . But , give Ewing and the Hoyas credit , they Won the Tourney ! It wasn't given to them .    Not that they needed it as Ewing has shown a eye for getting talented players but , this Win will get them access to a whole new tier of Elite players . Especially from the DC, Maryland , Virginia areas .  Expect Patrick to get a lot of McD All Americans as a result . We need to keep up ! 

 

[nysj144]

Agree 100 percent with beast and others.    83-87 grad here.     Will never root for Ewing   I will say I do respect what he has done at gtown and has a very class com8ng next season

 

[lawmanfan]

Sly, here's my take:

First, it was a weird year.  The typical arc of the season where by this time teams have formed an identity and everyone has been on the same schedule just wasn't there.  Some teams never got it together.  Some found it somewhere along the way.  Some found it at the very end. Take a look at Michigan State, Georgia Tech, and Georgetown for those. 

Because of that I think and have thought that the Big East Tournament was a preview of what you could see in the NCAA with one or more late bloomers getting in and doing a lot of damage.  

As for Georgetown, Ewing has them playing old school Big East / Pat Riley basketball.  They got a disorganized and poorly coached Marquette team. Then a crippled Nova.  They took that confidence into Seton Hall which is a team they match up with, and that was a good win. 

What happened to Creighton is that they are not an old school Big East team. They got punched in the mouth, curled up into a ball and went home.  They just don't have the toughness to compete with a confident Georgetown team (which also got the game of his life from Bile), plus they didn't hit shots, it happens sometimes. 

It definitely is a huge step for the Georgetown program.  It validates what some of us have been saying which is that record aside, Ewing is an excellent coach.  He already has his recruits in the barn for next year but it will help him keep filling the pipeline and we can expect them to return to a top tier team in the league. 

Now it is on St John's to keep up. We should have been a step ahead of them this year, we were a step ahead, and we tripped at the end.  Had we done what they did, the comments above would relate to us.  Gotta get up and move forward from here. 

Goes to show you that fans who only look at the W/L record may not know as much basketball as they think. 

 

[lawmanfan]

Agree 100 percent with beast and others.    83-87 grad here.     Will never root for Ewing   I will say I do respect what he has done at gtown and has a very class com8ng next season

 

[SLYFOXX1968]

Good Post , Lawman .. All good points . Creighton ? Given their season , who knows what happened in their Lockeroon this week ? The McDermott situation had to be a distraction to the Players ..    It struck me early on last night that Mahoney was totally out of control and was just chucking away and not playing like he normally does .  He was worse than terrible . And , it seemed to be affecting Jefferson , Bishop , Ballock as well .  Not sure such a experienced team as the Jays would be intimidated by the Hoyas but , it's possible . I think the Blues kind of thought they had the Tourney won on Friday vs UConn .  

 

[lawmanfan]

Good Post , Lawman .. All good points . Creighton ? Given their season , who knows what happened in their Lockeroon this week ? The McDermott situation had to be a distraction to the Players ..    It struck me early on last night that Mahoney was totally out of control and was just chucking away and not playing like he normally does .  He was worse than terrible . And , it seemed to be affecting Jefferson , Bishop , Ballock as well .  Not sure such a experienced team as the Jays would be intimidated by the Hoyas but , it's possible . I think the Blues kind of thought they had the Tourney won on Friday vs UConn .  
 

Yes - I wonder if the McDermott incident played a role in that he might be gun shy and did not feel that he could use the full range of coaching tools (i.e. tough love) on his team in a situation where they clearly needed a kick in the rear.  I do think that for 3 out of the 4 games Georgetown kind of stepped in it.  I suspect if UConn had survived Creighton the final might have gone differently.  But fortunately I did not have to make the Hobson's choice of rooting for either UConn or Georgetown.  Creighton I have a clear conscience in rooting for, even if they got smushed.

 

[Lambsbball]

It won't be long and the old Georgetown/St John's rivalry will heat up the Big East. Coach Anderson knows how to play rough when necessary. His mentor Nolan Richardson was known for in your face basketball. He learned from observing John Thompson. 
[URL]https://www.wholehogsports.com/news/2020/sep/01/big-john-huge-loss-former-ua-coach/[/URL]

The reemergence of the Hoyas and Johnnies helps the Big East. Teams are already adjusting to Anderson's 40 minutes of hell. They'll learn to play against Ewing's teams too. The Big East teams that get into the NCAA tournaments will be even better because of the competition at home.

​​​​​​I was asked about Arkansas. I've been a fan since junior high when Eddie Sutton coached the Razorbacks. I'm currently not watching their games. I don't like their coach. I'll leave it at that. I do read the sports and keep up with the team.
​​

 

[ADORAZ]

Glad the Hoyas won. I didn't want to see 3 Big East bids. 

 

[SLYFOXX1968]

Good Post , Lawman .. All good points . Creighton ? Given their season , who knows what happened in their Lockeroon this week ? The McDermott situation had to be a distraction to the Players ..    It struck me early on last night that Mahoney was totally out of control and was just chucking away and not playing like he normally does .  He was worse than terrible . And , it seemed to be affecting Jefferson , Bishop , Ballock as well .  Not sure such a experienced team as the Jays would be intimidated by the Hoyas but , it's possible . I think the Blues kind of thought they had the Tourney won on Friday vs UConn .  

 

Yes - I wonder if the McDermott incident played a role in that he might be gun shy and did not feel that he could use the full range of coaching tools (i.e. tough love) on his team in a situation where they clearly needed a kick in the rear.  I do think that for 3 out of the 4 games Georgetown kind of stepped in it.  I suspect if UConn had survived Creighton the final might have gone differently.  But fortunately I did not have to make the Hobson's choice of rooting for either UConn or Georgetown.  Creighton I have a clear conscience in rooting for, even if they got smushed.    Me too!  Anyone of a dozen Coaches would have put their Shoe up the. Backside of the Creighton players last night but , how could McDermott do that on TV at the Garden , even with limited fans .  I vsn
nover root for GTown or UConn !  Even though the Ewing teams under Thompson were great . I always thought they played a dirty game .  It was more than just mouthing off . Their players actually played dirty and the Refs let them . They practically mugged Mullin every time they played us .  I gave Kevin Williams a lot of credit . He took Ewing on during a game at the Garden . He had Balls and toughness . Plus , was a better player than Louie gave him credit for , in my opinion .  UCONN ? They were despised because Calhoun cheated and got
away with it . Ollie didn't get away with it .. and the UCOnn  fans are insufferable !  I hated the BE caving to let them back in ..  All the BE Schools were private and letting a State School with unlimited  budget back in was nuts . They use Tax Payer money to recruit and who knows if they really play by the Rules .   One last thing about the Hoyas . Back in the heyday , Syracuse and the Hoyas were in a tight game and I think it was Ewing who took a cheap shot at  Pearl Washington on the Orange . Pearl stood his ground and was ready to go to the Mat with Patrick . I gave  Pearl a lot of credit after that .. plus he was a great College BB player . Street wise too .  
 

 

[SJU85]

You have faulty memory. The providence event was not as large scale as you suggest and occurred in 1983.

[URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com...r-siege/a17fe474-6ec8-42a9-8ad6-19880d4d9990/[/URL]

I was there for every ewing sju home game, every bet, once in Landover,  and the final four.  Definitely the most hated opposing player, at least largely because he was so dominating on defense and anchored the hoya destroys thing

I stand corrected. And as a student at that time, (81-85), I also attended every home game and the Final Four. (Never made it to Landover). 
I hated G'town with the heat of 1,000 suns. Now...not so much.  The Ewing Knicks years flipped me on him...and them. Unlike UConn which bolted for the door, G'town fought to keep the league together. Gotta admire that.

I agree with you on most points, made all of the home games and Landover too.  However UConn did not bolt for the door because they never had a chance, the other big conferences didn't want them.  If they had, you would be correct and they would have bolted.  They uttimately lleft the Bog East be  cause when the basketball schools decided to spit, they didn't want them due to UConn's FBS status.  The fact that UConn was allowed back in by the same people who didn't want them in originally was a sign of desperation IMHO by the Big East and a lifeline to UConn.

I am happy for Georgetown, they earned it.

It's okay. It was 40 years ago when Ewing made his MSG debut.    SJU fans then were just curious to see if Ewing was the real deal or not, and at that point had no reason for any disdain towards him.  I remember seeing Ewing extend his arms in a defensive stance on our first possession and thought, "How crap, his arms extend across almost the entire lane" , which was an illusion since the lane is 12 feet wide.   Still it looked as intimidating as hell.   Without question, Ewing, on defense alone, was the most dominating college player I had ever seen, including Alcindor (with limited TV access).   Alcindor had an incredible supporting cast.   Ewing's was merely very good, but even with NBA stars Mourning and Mutombo, Georgetown wasn't quite the same.

The article I posted, from the hometown Washington Post, made reference to the fact that Ewing brought a lot of the disdain on himself.  Strategically, Thompson enjoyed the intimidation factor that the Hoyas brought with them, as he felt it gave them an edge.    He loved to portray his team as the roughhouse villains, and it got into opponent's heads.  Certianly he mellowed over the years.   The article also references how none other than Mike Jarvis, Ewing's HS coach, heavily influenced the notion that Ewing wasn't very bright by emailing 150 colleges alerting them to the fact that he had learning disability and would need special care.   

As a diehard redman fan, I never could embrace Ewing as a Knick.   He was projected to be as dominating as BIll Russell defensively, and instead was more of a scorer than a stopper.    The missed finger roll as time expired in the 1995 game 7 vs. the Pacers in a 2 point loss sort of summarized his career for me.    I always felt Michael Jordan became close friends with stars on opposing teams as a way of dominating them on the court.    I would much rather have seem the surly, behemoth that was the centerpiece of the Georgetown who played every minute with fire and anger.

My kids played an awful lot at the Island Garden in West Hempstead, for the Lightning AAU teams that Posh and Wusu were part of.   There was non-stop basketball 12 months a year, from league play in the summer and during the school year, to a large AAU program.    During the 1998-99 NBA strike, by the time things were settled, the Knicks practice facility, SUNY Purchase was not available.   For several weeks, the Island Garden cleared their schedule, and the Knicks worked out there.    At the end of the sessions, Jim Fox or someone else at the Garden grabbed a large easel pad, and asked the Knick players and coaches to sign it.   Every player willingly did so, as a sort of thank you to the facility for letting them practice there.   All except one, Patrick Ewing, who offered no reason, but refused to sign.    The paper had no real value, and for years (maybe even today) the Island Garden had it framed and mounted on a wall there.  The absence of a Ewing signature is glaring.    

Sorry, the guy can be a jerk at times, and his Knick career, Hall of Fame and all, fell far short of the expectation when the Knicks won the lottery.

Still, as an original Big East team, I'm happy for their underdog rise to the BET championship.   When the dust settles, perhaps we will look at this year's BET as another chapter in the SJU woulda coulda shoulda history.


.   
 

Really appreciate your insights, as usual good stuff.

 

[SJU85]

I understand and can appreciate the dislike of anything Georgetown.  Heck I was in that crowd while at St. John's and for a long time afterwards.  However when I first started to get into College basketball (besides the tournament) in my teens, I'd like the teams from the east, St. John's, Syracuse and Georgetown.  I wasn't a student yet at St. John's and had no allegiance to it yet.

An I agree that some of the stuff Patrick and Georgetown brough on themselves and Thompson used that to insulate his team but I also now that the media also wasn't fair either and at times were hypocritical.  As it was stated during yesterdays broadcast, "It is not paranoia when you think someone is out to get you and they really are."  The media would bring up things like the team staying far away from venues and making players in general inaccessible to the media (Freshman weren't allowed to speak to the media until February of their freshman year) while there were other schools that the same or very similar things including St. John's who didn't always stay close ot the venue either and had rules you had to follow to do interviews.  Heck in more recent years, Rasheed Jordan was not allowed to be interviewed.  There are more examples but those top the list.

 I remember a BC and Georgetown game where Ewing at first appeared to through Michael Adams to the ground and then went after him.  The crowd was booing and even the announcers were going after the 7' ft. Ewing for going after the 5' 9"  Adams.  But the replay showed Ewing trying to catch Adams who had been fouled by another Georgetown player but as he cut Adams, Adams through a punch which connected to Ewing's jaw, hence Ewing's reaction.  No

Lastly if the coach of the Knicks had told John Stark's to stop shooting or benched him on in another year refrained from going back to the old offensive sets when they played more wide open in earlier rounds while Ewing was injured, the Knicks might have two more Championship banners besides the 69/70 and 72/73 ones.