Big East Media Day

[quote="Paultzman" post=400704]You can see why BE coaches ranked us low. We got intoxicated beating GT in big BE T comeback and the “half win” v Creighton. Perhaps the other coaches are more focused on SJU winning five BE regular season games with one road win. I think they could be a middle of pack team, but also can see possibility of 7th or 8th place. This is a bear of a conference.

Let’s see how well this team can come together and ignore the noise. We really have not done enough yet to warrant much in these prognostications IMO.[/quote]

I was impressed with the WVU and AZ wins because I don't see any other coach pulling out those wins. As Knight mentioned the team was more than the sum of its parts. Also impressed with the ongoing player dev and confidence both that the players exhibit and that the coach puts in them. Mostly good chemistry and frankly the worst "chemistry" issue I saw last season was from the guy who I expected to be the team leader but then left. So disappointing but maybe a net gain. Put that all in the perspective of Heron being a non factor all season and LJ not really stepping up and still having a +500 season, hanging tough and even beating some really good and elite teams and it is pretty amazing. There is definitely some basis for optimism as a fan but I agree that coach's poll is probably what you'd expect without considering the subtext.
 
If things play out similarly to last season in regards to us staying close in most games, AND we're able to close out those games, then we'll be fine. We lost about 7 or 8 games last season because we simply couldn't close out games. Either in the last few seconds or the last couple of minutes.... We couldn't close 'em out.

Maybe, with the experience and a true lead guard, then we may be able to finish off games this season.
 
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[quote="MJDinkins" post=400714]If things play out similarly to last season in regards to us staying close in most games, AND we're able to close out those games, then we'll be fine. We lost about 7 or 8 games last season because we simply couldn't close out games. Either in the last few seconds or the last couple of minutes.... We couldn't close 'em out.

Maybe, with the experience and a true lead guard, then we may be able to finish off games this season.[/quote]

That's fair, but I think it may be a little ambitious to expect Posh to make a huge difference this year, especially with the shortened OOC schedule. Not sure we will get more from Posh this year then Dunn/Rutherford gave us at the PG spot last year.
 
[quote="Monte" post=400715][quote="MJDinkins" post=400714]If things play out similarly to last season in regards to us staying close in most games, AND we're able to close out those games, then we'll be fine. We lost about 7 or 8 games last season because we simply couldn't close out games. Either in the last few seconds or the last couple of minutes.... We couldn't close 'em out.

Maybe, with the experience and a true lead guard, then we may be able to finish off games this season.[/quote]

That's fair, but I think it may be a little ambitious to expect Posh to make a huge difference this year, especially with the shortened OOC schedule. Not sure we will get more from Posh this year then Dunn/Rutherford gave us at the PG spot last year.[/quote]

I'd rather take my chances with Posh this year rather than Dunn at point, especially in the last few minutes of a tight game.
 
[quote="EliteBaller K" post=400717][quote="Monte" post=400715][quote="MJDinkins" post=400714]If things play out similarly to last season in regards to us staying close in most games, AND we're able to close out those games, then we'll be fine. We lost about 7 or 8 games last season because we simply couldn't close out games. Either in the last few seconds or the last couple of minutes.... We couldn't close 'em out.

Maybe, with the experience and a true lead guard, then we may be able to finish off games this season.[/quote]

That's fair, but I think it may be a little ambitious to expect Posh to make a huge difference this year, especially with the shortened OOC schedule. Not sure we will get more from Posh this year then Dunn/Rutherford gave us at the PG spot last year.[/quote]

I'd rather take my chances with Posh this year rather than Dunn at point, especially in the last few minutes of a tight game.[/quote]

I'll leave that up to CMA. That's what he get paid the big bucks for. Just think the expectations being placed on Posh at this point are a bit too lofty. But that's what we tend to do on this board.
 
[quote="Monte" post=400718][quote="EliteBaller K" post=400717][quote="Monte" post=400715][quote="MJDinkins" post=400714]If things play out similarly to last season in regards to us staying close in most games, AND we're able to close out those games, then we'll be fine. We lost about 7 or 8 games last season because we simply couldn't close out games. Either in the last few seconds or the last couple of minutes.... We couldn't close 'em out.

Maybe, with the experience and a true lead guard, then we may be able to finish off games this season.[/quote]

That's fair, but I think it may be a little ambitious to expect Posh to make a huge difference this year, especially with the shortened OOC schedule. Not sure we will get more from Posh this year then Dunn/Rutherford gave us at the PG spot last year.[/quote]

I'd rather take my chances with Posh this year rather than Dunn at point, especially in the last few minutes of a tight game.[/quote]

I'll leave that up to CMA. That's what he get paid the big bucks for. Just think the expectations being placed on Posh at this point are a bit too lofty. But that's what we tend to do on this board.[/quote]

You're right, we shouldn't expect it, but there's nothing wrong with hoping. That's what us fans do (not just sju fans either). We want our team to win.
 
[quote="Paul Massell" post=400706][quote="Paultzman" post=400704]You can see why BE coaches ranked us low. We got intoxicated beating GT in big BE T comeback and the “half win” v Creighton. Perhaps the other coaches are more focused on SJU winning five BE regular season games with one road win. I think they could be a middle of pack team, but also can see possibility of 7th or 8th place. This is a bear of a conference.

Let’s see how well this team can come together and ignore the noise. We really have not done enough yet to warrant much in these prognostications IMO.[/quote]

I was impressed with the WVU and AZ wins because I don't see any other coach pulling out those wins. As Knight mentioned the team was more than the sum of its parts. Also impressed with the ongoing player dev and confidence both that the players exhibit and that the coach puts in them. Mostly good chemistry and frankly the worst "chemistry" issue I saw last season was from the guy who I expected to be the team leader but then left. So disappointing but maybe a net gain. Put that all in the perspective of Heron being a non factor all season and LJ not really stepping up and still having a +500 season, hanging tough and even beating some really good and elite teams and it is pretty amazing. There is definitely some basis for optimism as a fan but I agree that coach's poll is probably what you'd expect without considering the subtext.[/quote]

Paultz is right. And as impressed as you were by the WVU and AZ wins those things can happen in terms of mediocre/bad teams winning unexpectedly. SJU beat Syracuse in both of Mullin's first two years including his first when SU went to the Final Four. Neither of those SJU teams were any good. Norm's first year they beat NC St and Julius Hodge in the Holiday Festival, that team was awful. Bottom line is they were a bad/mediocre team for most of last year. Not MA fault, that is the talent level for the most part he inherited. The talent level on paper is a bit better this year, maybe some of the returning talent takes major jumps (say Champagnie). But not significantly better and they are not coming off a great year. Add it all up and it is a recipe to be picked near the bottom.

And on depth well look. SJU has 12 scholarship players yes. Do they have 10-12 scholarship players that could earn meaningful minutes on the better BE teams? Answer, no. You don't need 10 players for real depth. What you need is around 8 REALLY GOOD players. Meaning in addition to your starters have 3-4 players coming off the bench who you know are starting caliber players in the BE. Don't confuse bodies on the bench with depth. It is not the same. Again not one players the opposing coaches thought was worthly of making an ALL-BE squad. Not one.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=400724]
Paultz is right. And as impressed as you were by the WVU and AZ wins those things can happen in terms of mediocre/bad teams winning unexpectedly. SJU beat Syracuse in both of Mullin's first two years including his first when SU went to the Final Four. Neither of those SJU teams were any good. Norm's first year they beat NC St and Julius Hodge in the Holiday Festival, that team was awful. Bottom line is they were a bad/mediocre team for most of last year. Not MA fault, that is the talent level for the most part he inherited. The talent level on paper is a bit better this year, maybe some of the returning talent takes major jumps (say Champagnie). But not significantly better and they are not coming off a great year. Add it all up and it is a recipe to be picked near the bottom.

And on depth well look. SJU has 12 scholarship players yes. Do they have 10-12 scholarship players that could earn meaningful minutes on the better BE teams? Answer, no. You don't need 10 players for real depth. What you need is around 8 REALLY GOOD players. Meaning in addition to your starters have 3-4 players coming off the bench who you know are starting caliber players in the BE. Don't confuse bodies on the bench with depth. It is not the same. Again not one players the opposing coaches thought was worthly of making an ALL-BE squad. Not one.[/quote]

I didn't say Paultz was wrong just that for me, it wasn't the full picture. Your point seems to be that we have inferior players and there is no disputing that we are a bad team. What I was saying and what others have said like the quotable knight who said, we are more than the sum of our parts, is that there are some nuances to our potential for this season. This might (and is for me) be enough to hold out some hope despite not have and All Big East player on the roster and despite being ranked near the bottom by the coaches.
I believe our coaching staff got more out of our players than we could have reasonably expected and the player development has been perhaps the best we've seen in decades. I also pointed out that in light of our two best players who most of us assumed that our season was hanging on, were almost non-factors, so I was impressed that this staff not only salvaged a winning season but beat teams they should not. You say that I was simply deluded by the random winning of a bad team. So we have our opinions. And our "awful" team beating Julius Hodge was one of the more satisfying wins. He was publicly talking so much smack (including directly to me) leading up to that game just being insulting.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=400724][quote="Paul Massell" post=400706][quote="Paultzman" post=400704]You can see why BE coaches ranked us low. We got intoxicated beating GT in big BE T comeback and the “half win” v Creighton. Perhaps the other coaches are more focused on SJU winning five BE regular season games with one road win. I think they could be a middle of pack team, but also can see possibility of 7th or 8th place. This is a bear of a conference.

Let’s see how well this team can come together and ignore the noise. We really have not done enough yet to warrant much in these prognostications IMO.[/quote]

I was impressed with the WVU and AZ wins because I don't see any other coach pulling out those wins. As Knight mentioned the team was more than the sum of its parts. Also impressed with the ongoing player dev and confidence both that the players exhibit and that the coach puts in them. Mostly good chemistry and frankly the worst "chemistry" issue I saw last season was from the guy who I expected to be the team leader but then left. So disappointing but maybe a net gain. Put that all in the perspective of Heron being a non factor all season and LJ not really stepping up and still having a +500 season, hanging tough and even beating some really good and elite teams and it is pretty amazing. There is definitely some basis for optimism as a fan but I agree that coach's poll is probably what you'd expect without considering the subtext.[/quote]

Paultz is right. And as impressed as you were by the WVU and AZ wins those things can happen in terms of mediocre/bad teams winning unexpectedly. SJU beat Syracuse in both of Mullin's first two years including his first when SU went to the Final Four. Neither of those SJU teams were any good. Norm's first year they beat NC St and Julius Hodge in the Holiday Festival, that team was awful. Bottom line is they were a bad/mediocre team for most of last year. Not MA fault, that is the talent level for the most part he inherited. The talent level on paper is a bit better this year, maybe some of the returning talent takes major jumps (say Champagnie). But not significantly better and they are not coming off a great year. Add it all up and it is a recipe to be picked near the bottom.

And on depth well look. SJU has 12 scholarship players yes. Do they have 10-12 scholarship players that could earn meaningful minutes on the better BE teams? Answer, no. You don't need 10 players for real depth. What you need is around 8 REALLY GOOD players. Meaning in addition to your starters have 3-4 players coming off the bench who you know are starting caliber players in the BE. Don't confuse bodies on the bench with depth. It is not the same. Again not one players the opposing coaches thought was worthly of making an ALL-BE squad. Not one.[/quote]

Agree with some of what you're saying, but 8 "really good players" gets you at or near the top of the the Big East. We have the potential to have 8 "good players", which could elevate us to the middle of the pack in the Big East. As I've said before, until we see the newcomers and the improvement in the returning players, we have no way of knowing what kind of team we have.
 
Regardless of where we end up, really excited for year 2 under CMA.

Few thoughts. Havnt heard anyone mention replacing the defensive impact of LJ and Rutherford. There is no guarantee we will be better then we were on that side of the ball. Those two got their hands on more balls than any other duo in the BE. Our interior defense should be much improved so maybe we don’t rely on steals and deflections as much but still, 4 steals a game is a big number.

I don’t think we’ll have anyone as offensively talented as Lj individually, but I think with some added depth, better balance, and improved PG play, we could take a step collectively. Cole is the major wild card for me here, if he can play 20-25 minutes as a legit BE wing scorer we can compete and beat any team in the conference. If he is not ready to play big minutes then I think our perimeter offense could be in trouble. I was a little more impressed with his freshmen highlight tape, didn’t seem to improve his ability to get to the rim off the dribble. Most of his attacks end up in jump shots which worries me a bit.

I think Posh will have big ups and downs in year one. He is great at 100 mph, he will have to learn how to slow down and play to pace from time to time. Think McGriff will be more of a game manager in that regard. Think Dunn and Williams willl be our rocks this year. Will play 1-3, will know their roles, will score 15-20 on some nights, will make the little plays on others.

What Williams and Dunn will be to our backcourt, Marcellus and Julian will be to our frontcourt. Scoring, rebounding, and flexibility. I think these two really will be our identify as a team the next 2-3 years and I think both of them will make all BE teams before their time is done. Earlington off the bench against back up bigs is going to lead to a lot of points.

Will Toro be a legitimate BE center option? Time will tell but we seem better equipped to guard the interior this year than in most years past.

Wusu, put in the work and your time will come. Moore, follow Wusu to the gym and the cafeteria.

The extra year of eligibility across the board really puts us in an interesting spot. Our “sophomore/junior” class of Williams, earlington, Roberts, caraher, plus cole and Moore could be a great group to grow with for 3 years. Champaigne and posh could really grow and develop as the leaders with that group and we could be enjoying a nice stretch of competitive, winning basketball.
 
[quote="Monte" post=400727][quote="fordham96" post=400724][quote="Paul Massell" post=400706][quote="Paultzman" post=400704]You can see why BE coaches ranked us low. We got intoxicated beating GT in big BE T comeback and the “half win” v Creighton. Perhaps the other coaches are more focused on SJU winning five BE regular season games with one road win. I think they could be a middle of pack team, but also can see possibility of 7th or 8th place. This is a bear of a conference.

Let’s see how well this team can come together and ignore the noise. We really have not done enough yet to warrant much in these prognostications IMO.[/quote]

I was impressed with the WVU and AZ wins because I don't see any other coach pulling out those wins. As Knight mentioned the team was more than the sum of its parts. Also impressed with the ongoing player dev and confidence both that the players exhibit and that the coach puts in them. Mostly good chemistry and frankly the worst "chemistry" issue I saw last season was from the guy who I expected to be the team leader but then left. So disappointing but maybe a net gain. Put that all in the perspective of Heron being a non factor all season and LJ not really stepping up and still having a +500 season, hanging tough and even beating some really good and elite teams and it is pretty amazing. There is definitely some basis for optimism as a fan but I agree that coach's poll is probably what you'd expect without considering the subtext.[/quote]

Paultz is right. And as impressed as you were by the WVU and AZ wins those things can happen in terms of mediocre/bad teams winning unexpectedly. SJU beat Syracuse in both of Mullin's first two years including his first when SU went to the Final Four. Neither of those SJU teams were any good. Norm's first year they beat NC St and Julius Hodge in the Holiday Festival, that team was awful. Bottom line is they were a bad/mediocre team for most of last year. Not MA fault, that is the talent level for the most part he inherited. The talent level on paper is a bit better this year, maybe some of the returning talent takes major jumps (say Champagnie). But not significantly better and they are not coming off a great year. Add it all up and it is a recipe to be picked near the bottom.

And on depth well look. SJU has 12 scholarship players yes. Do they have 10-12 scholarship players that could earn meaningful minutes on the better BE teams? Answer, no. You don't need 10 players for real depth. What you need is around 8 REALLY GOOD players. Meaning in addition to your starters have 3-4 players coming off the bench who you know are starting caliber players in the BE. Don't confuse bodies on the bench with depth. It is not the same. Again not one players the opposing coaches thought was worthly of making an ALL-BE squad. Not one.[/quote]

Agree with some of what you're saying, but 8 "really good players" gets you at or near the top of the the Big East. We have the potential to have 8 "good players", which could elevate us to the middle of the pack in the Big East. As I've said before, until we see the newcomers and the improvement in the returning players, we have no way of knowing what kind of team we have.[/quote]

Exactly, at the risk of sounding stupid, that’s why they play the games. One thing being ignored, it would appear we have much improved depth; that coupled with Anderson’s willingness to play the “best 5” that day, maybe we close out games better this year. As an earlier poster shared, that was a major weakness last year.
 
[quote="Amaseinyourface" post=400730]Regardless of where we end up, really excited for year 2 under CMA.

Few thoughts. Havnt heard anyone mention replacing the defensive impact of LJ and Rutherford. There is no guarantee we will be better then we were on that side of the ball. Those two got their hands on more balls than any other duo in the BE. Our interior defense should be much improved so maybe we don’t rely on steals and deflections as much but still, 4 steals a game is a big number.

I don’t think we’ll have anyone as offensively talented as Lj individually, but I think with some added depth, better balance, and improved PG play, we could take a step collectively. Cole is the major wild card for me here, if he can play 20-25 minutes as a legit BE wing scorer we can compete and beat any team in the conference. If he is not ready to play big minutes then I think our perimeter offense could be in trouble. I was a little more impressed with his freshmen highlight tape, didn’t seem to improve his ability to get to the rim off the dribble. Most of his attacks end up in jump shots which worries me a bit.

I think Posh will have big ups and downs in year one. He is great at 100 mph, he will have to learn how to slow down and play to pace from time to time. Think McGriff will be more of a game manager in that regard. Think Dunn and Williams willl be our rocks this year. Will play 1-3, will know their roles, will score 15-20 on some nights, will make the little plays on others.

What Williams and Dunn will be to our backcourt, Marcellus and Julian will be to our frontcourt. Scoring, rebounding, and flexibility. I think these two really will be our identify as a team the next 2-3 years and I think both of them will make all BE teams before their time is done. Earlington off the bench against back up bigs is going to lead to a lot of points.

Will Toro be a legitimate BE center option? Time will tell but we seem better equipped to guard the interior this year than in most years past.

Wusu, put in the work and your time will come. Moore, follow Wusu to the gym and the cafeteria.

The extra year of eligibility across the board really puts us in an interesting spot. Our “sophomore/junior” class of Williams, earlington, Roberts, caraher, plus cole and Moore could be a great group to grow with for 3 years. Champaigne and posh could really grow and develop as the leaders with that group and we could be enjoying a nice stretch of competitive, winning basketball.[/quote]

Nice post Mase & agree Cole performance is indeed the wild card.
 
[quote="Logen" post=400731][quote="Monte" post=400727][quote="fordham96" post=400724][quote="Paul Massell" post=400706][quote="Paultzman" post=400704]You can see why BE coaches ranked us low. We got intoxicated beating GT in big BE T comeback and the “half win” v Creighton. Perhaps the other coaches are more focused on SJU winning five BE regular season games with one road win. I think they could be a middle of pack team, but also can see possibility of 7th or 8th place. This is a bear of a conference.

Let’s see how well this team can come together and ignore the noise. We really have not done enough yet to warrant much in these prognostications IMO.[/quote]

I was impressed with the WVU and AZ wins because I don't see any other coach pulling out those wins. As Knight mentioned the team was more than the sum of its parts. Also impressed with the ongoing player dev and confidence both that the players exhibit and that the coach puts in them. Mostly good chemistry and frankly the worst "chemistry" issue I saw last season was from the guy who I expected to be the team leader but then left. So disappointing but maybe a net gain. Put that all in the perspective of Heron being a non factor all season and LJ not really stepping up and still having a +500 season, hanging tough and even beating some really good and elite teams and it is pretty amazing. There is definitely some basis for optimism as a fan but I agree that coach's poll is probably what you'd expect without considering the subtext.[/quote]

Paultz is right. And as impressed as you were by the WVU and AZ wins those things can happen in terms of mediocre/bad teams winning unexpectedly. SJU beat Syracuse in both of Mullin's first two years including his first when SU went to the Final Four. Neither of those SJU teams were any good. Norm's first year they beat NC St and Julius Hodge in the Holiday Festival, that team was awful. Bottom line is they were a bad/mediocre team for most of last year. Not MA fault, that is the talent level for the most part he inherited. The talent level on paper is a bit better this year, maybe some of the returning talent takes major jumps (say Champagnie). But not significantly better and they are not coming off a great year. Add it all up and it is a recipe to be picked near the bottom.

And on depth well look. SJU has 12 scholarship players yes. Do they have 10-12 scholarship players that could earn meaningful minutes on the better BE teams? Answer, no. You don't need 10 players for real depth. What you need is around 8 REALLY GOOD players. Meaning in addition to your starters have 3-4 players coming off the bench who you know are starting caliber players in the BE. Don't confuse bodies on the bench with depth. It is not the same. Again not one players the opposing coaches thought was worthly of making an ALL-BE squad. Not one.[/quote]

Agree with some of what you're saying, but 8 "really good players" gets you at or near the top of the the Big East. We have the potential to have 8 "good players", which could elevate us to the middle of the pack in the Big East. As I've said before, until we see the newcomers and the improvement in the returning players, we have no way of knowing what kind of team we have.[/quote]

Exactly, at the risk of sounding stupid, that’s why they play the games. One thing being ignored, it would appear we have much improved depth; that coupled with Anderson’s willingness to play the “best 5” that day, maybe we close out games better this year. As an earlier poster shared, that was a major weakness last year.[/quote]

No here is my point where do people get the notion to say " it appears we have good depth." Based on what? They finished 5-13 last year and are picked 9th this year. That would infer almost no one is impressed with their depth. No? My larger point is almost all the rosy predictions are based on platitudes from fans. We have "great depth, " Mike Anderson is a 'great coach" and "" the whole is greater than the sum of their parts." Ok to an outside observer that means a bottom tier finish likely. At least on paper.
 
Board appears pretty split between those who agree with BE coaches that 9th place is where we belong and those who think a mid pack (5-7) finish is more likely with a smaller group believing we can be in top tier.

Will be interesting to resurrect this thread after the season. I will be surprised if we don't finish 7th or better so long as we stay healthy.
 
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=400740]Board appears pretty split between those who agree with BE coaches that 9th place is where we belong and those who think a mid pack (5-7) finish is more likely with a smaller group believing we can be in top tier.

Will be interesting to resurrect this thread after the season. I will be surprised if we don't finish 7th or better so long as we stay healthy.[/quote]

Based on what we know, and what we don't know(IE newcomers, etc), I agree with the 9th place prediction. I also agree that we have the potential to finish in the middle of the Big East pack if it things turn out as we hope. Looking forward to a fun season regardless.
 
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To me we have great depth because more than 7 guys will get impact playing time this season, specially in the system CMA runs. Does that mean the talent level is all Big East? No. But it will translate to St John's playing constant defense and hopefully transition offense for easy buckets.

I imagine Posh/Mcgriff will give us better end of game play at the point than Dunn ever did last season. They are small guards with tight dribbles. If they keep their composure late game we should fine. Too many times last year we lost close games due to poor execution and errors that were self inflicted.

Barring health/injuries, bet the house that SJU finishes above ninth this season.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=400735][quote="Logen" post=400731][quote="Monte" post=400727][quote="fordham96" post=400724][quote="Paul Massell" post=400706][quote="Paultzman" post=400704]You can see why BE coaches ranked us low. We got intoxicated beating GT in big BE T comeback and the “half win” v Creighton. Perhaps the other coaches are more focused on SJU winning five BE regular season games with one road win. I think they could be a middle of pack team, but also can see possibility of 7th or 8th place. This is a bear of a conference.

Let’s see how well this team can come together and ignore the noise. We really have not done enough yet to warrant much in these prognostications IMO.[/quote]

I was impressed with the WVU and AZ wins because I don't see any other coach pulling out those wins. As Knight mentioned the team was more than the sum of its parts. Also impressed with the ongoing player dev and confidence both that the players exhibit and that the coach puts in them. Mostly good chemistry and frankly the worst "chemistry" issue I saw last season was from the guy who I expected to be the team leader but then left. So disappointing but maybe a net gain. Put that all in the perspective of Heron being a non factor all season and LJ not really stepping up and still having a +500 season, hanging tough and even beating some really good and elite teams and it is pretty amazing. There is definitely some basis for optimism as a fan but I agree that coach's poll is probably what you'd expect without considering the subtext.[/quote]

Paultz is right. And as impressed as you were by the WVU and AZ wins those things can happen in terms of mediocre/bad teams winning unexpectedly. SJU beat Syracuse in both of Mullin's first two years including his first when SU went to the Final Four. Neither of those SJU teams were any good. Norm's first year they beat NC St and Julius Hodge in the Holiday Festival, that team was awful. Bottom line is they were a bad/mediocre team for most of last year. Not MA fault, that is the talent level for the most part he inherited. The talent level on paper is a bit better this year, maybe some of the returning talent takes major jumps (say Champagnie). But not significantly better and they are not coming off a great year. Add it all up and it is a recipe to be picked near the bottom.

And on depth well look. SJU has 12 scholarship players yes. Do they have 10-12 scholarship players that could earn meaningful minutes on the better BE teams? Answer, no. You don't need 10 players for real depth. What you need is around 8 REALLY GOOD players. Meaning in addition to your starters have 3-4 players coming off the bench who you know are starting caliber players in the BE. Don't confuse bodies on the bench with depth. It is not the same. Again not one players the opposing coaches thought was worthly of making an ALL-BE squad. Not one.[/quote]

Agree with some of what you're saying, but 8 "really good players" gets you at or near the top of the the Big East. We have the potential to have 8 "good players", which could elevate us to the middle of the pack in the Big East. As I've said before, until we see the newcomers and the improvement in the returning players, we have no way of knowing what kind of team we have.[/quote]

Exactly, at the risk of sounding stupid, that’s why they play the games. One thing being ignored, it would appear we have much improved depth; that coupled with Anderson’s willingness to play the “best 5” that day, maybe we close out games better this year. As an earlier poster shared, that was a major weakness last year.[/quote]

No here is my point where do people get the notion to say " it appears we have good depth." Based on what? They finished 5-13 last year and are picked 9th this year. That would infer almost no one is impressed with their depth. No? My larger point is almost all the rosy predictions are based on platitudes from fans. We have "great depth, " Mike Anderson is a 'great coach" and "" the whole is greater than the sum of their parts." Ok to an outside observer that means a bottom tier finish likely. At least on paper.[/quote]

Well, you see, I make up my own mind by having some measure of access and therefore talking to people with insight into practices. I did not offer anything other than a possibility, hence “it appears”. And you are basing your opinion on “that would infer almost no one”. So unlike some self proclaimed experts I will offer my insight with the caveat “it appears” because it is based on something other than just wanting to argue so it appears I have some expertise I don’t. The fact is I could care less where we are picked by ANYONE and wouldn’t waste my time pretending otherwise.
 
[quote="Logen" post=400731][quote="Monte" post=400727][quote="fordham96" post=400724][quote="Paul Massell" post=400706][quote="Paultzman" post=400704]You can see why BE coaches ranked us low. We got intoxicated beating GT in big BE T comeback and the “half win” v Creighton. Perhaps the other coaches are more focused on SJU winning five BE regular season games with one road win. I think they could be a middle of pack team, but also can see possibility of 7th or 8th place. This is a bear of a conference.

Let’s see how well this team can come together and ignore the noise. We really have not done enough yet to warrant much in these prognostications IMO.[/quote]

I was impressed with the WVU and AZ wins because I don't see any other coach pulling out those wins. As Knight mentioned the team was more than the sum of its parts. Also impressed with the ongoing player dev and confidence both that the players exhibit and that the coach puts in them. Mostly good chemistry and frankly the worst "chemistry" issue I saw last season was from the guy who I expected to be the team leader but then left. So disappointing but maybe a net gain. Put that all in the perspective of Heron being a non factor all season and LJ not really stepping up and still having a +500 season, hanging tough and even beating some really good and elite teams and it is pretty amazing. There is definitely some basis for optimism as a fan but I agree that coach's poll is probably what you'd expect without considering the subtext.[/quote]

Paultz is right. And as impressed as you were by the WVU and AZ wins those things can happen in terms of mediocre/bad teams winning unexpectedly. SJU beat Syracuse in both of Mullin's first two years including his first when SU went to the Final Four. Neither of those SJU teams were any good. Norm's first year they beat NC St and Julius Hodge in the Holiday Festival, that team was awful. Bottom line is they were a bad/mediocre team for most of last year. Not MA fault, that is the talent level for the most part he inherited. The talent level on paper is a bit better this year, maybe some of the returning talent takes major jumps (say Champagnie). But not significantly better and they are not coming off a great year. Add it all up and it is a recipe to be picked near the bottom.

And on depth well look. SJU has 12 scholarship players yes. Do they have 10-12 scholarship players that could earn meaningful minutes on the better BE teams? Answer, no. You don't need 10 players for real depth. What you need is around 8 REALLY GOOD players. Meaning in addition to your starters have 3-4 players coming off the bench who you know are starting caliber players in the BE. Don't confuse bodies on the bench with depth. It is not the same. Again not one players the opposing coaches thought was worthly of making an ALL-BE squad. Not one.[/quote]

Agree with some of what you're saying, but 8 "really good players" gets you at or near the top of the the Big East. We have the potential to have 8 "good players", which could elevate us to the middle of the pack in the Big East. As I've said before, until we see the newcomers and the improvement in the returning players, we have no way of knowing what kind of team we have.[/quote]

Exactly, at the risk of sounding stupid, that’s why they play the games. One thing being ignored, it would appear we have much improved depth; that coupled with Anderson’s willingness to play the “best 5” that day, maybe we close out games better this year. As an earlier poster shared, that was a major weakness last year.[/quote]

With maybe a hunt of bias, the athletic department is very excited that we are a much improved team this year. I was never a big fan of LJ as the star of the team, and actually think he'd be better off on a college team team where he is the 4th-6th best player. We may actually be a better team without him given that a lot of his shortcomings became evident last season. Early last season, I told CMA I thought we were a 6-12 team in conference. He didn't like me saying that, but we were actually about as good a 5-13 team that you could imagine. This season, I think that if we gel early, we could approach 9 or 10 wins as high water, else we can expect 7-8 wins in conference. Just keeping it real.
 
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