(BET @MSG-Game-2) Marquette, Thur. Mar. 14, 7pm, FS1 / 970AM

Just comped the stats for us and Marquette because I'm a masochist.
There was a lid on the basket for our Johnnies last night.
We failed to finish anywhere on the court-- from inside the Arc or from 3-pt range.
Meanwhile Marquette lit up the nets with 48% from 3 (not a typo!) and 53% from 2-pt range.
And they had 15 assists to our 10.
We had 9 TOs to 15 for them, 9 steals to 2 for Marquette; 6 blocks to their 2.
The story is we failed to finish either on the break after a steal or from the field and forced way too many 3s.
A miserable game but with great guys and the old adage is true: misery loves company.
Anyway, on to the dance.
Just hope we don't get Gonzaga again in the opener.
If we do, I'll just watch the rerun from the last time!
 
Last edited:
The thing that's so infuriating is when Marquette starts warming up and gets back to back baskets and we badly need an answer, we always seem to force a stupid 3 early in the shot clock and it's a brick 99% of the time. They get the rebound and make a huge 3 in transition or an easy layup and suddenly they're on a run. Clark doesn't seem to know when he doesn't have his shot going. When you're hot, you're hot. But when you're ice cold like he's been you need to realize that and pass it and do what's best for the team. Though I'm pissed we got manhandled, we would've lost even with our best game IMO. I saw the first half on the gamecast play by play on my ESPN app since I was driving and it seemed every 3 seconds I saw "_______ makes a 3 pointer", "________ makes a 3 pointer", "_________ makes a 3 pointer". I thought it was buggy but then I realized Marquette just couldn't miss.

By the way, how does a coach not say "no 3's" when you're up 30+ points in final 3 minutes? I get some guys want to get shots who may not normally...but it reminds me of the Pats throwing a deep ball trying for a TD up 40 points with 3 minutes left in the 4th. If I was a player I'd get chippy over that. Brings Fordham to mind.
 
Last edited:
I would love to know of any team in BE history who had a 3 year run in the BE Tourney where they got ousted by a combined total of 101 points or worse in those 3 games like SJU has, 2017-19.

I mean that is hard to comprehend how bad that is...Lost by 41 to Nova, 28 to Xavier and 32 to Marquette....
 
It seemed to me Marquette did an excellent job at cutting off angles on the way to the hoop, resulting in many drives being released near the baseline and low percentage.

Once we went cold Marquette virtually dared us to shoot. Plenty of makeable looks and some guys (Simon and LJ) who have funky releases looked almost awkward dribbling one more step and launching almost off balanced 3's as opposed to catch, square up and shoot.

At 43-37 and both teams with a few bad possession, I said to a family member, "We'd better score soon, MArquette won't play this badly for much longer. " Sure enough MArquette caught fire and the wheels fell off. Didn't help that Simon and Clark picked up their 3rd fouls early.
 
[quote="Chicago Days" post=330698]Just comped the stats for us and Marquette because I'm a masochist.
There was a lid on the basket for our Johnnies last night.
We failed to finish anywhere on the court-- from inside the Arc or from 3-pt range.
Meanwhile Marquette lit up the nets with 48% from 3 (not a typo!) and 53% from 2-pt range.
And they had 15 assists to our 10.
We had 9 TOs to 15 for them, 9 steals to 2 for Marquette; 6 blocks to their 2.
The story is we failed to finish either on the break after a steal or from the field and forced way too many 3s.
![/quote]

Marquette took good shots all game: in-the-flow, high percentage, often uncontested. We took bad shots all game: off balance, forced, contested, low percentage. The exception for us was the dozen or so layups and dunks, a few of which were spectacular.

Individually, every one of our starters has an elite skill. But they do not play well enough together. They lack cohesion and discipline. And there is the obvious lack of big bodies for defense and rebounding.

It's difficult to say how much of the blame for our bad shot selection and wasted possessions is due to deficiencies in coaching, personnel, or just poor execution/low basketball IQ. It's probably a combination of all of those factors.

I think our entire starting 5 could shoot 40% or better from 3 if they only took Steve Kerr 3s and never Steph Curry 3s. But unfortunately our offense rarely sets up good looks from deep.
 
Last edited:
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=330702]The thing that's so infuriating is when Marquette starts warming up and gets back to back baskets and we badly need an answer, we always seem to force a stupid 3 early in the shot clock and it's a brick 99% of the time. They get the rebound and make a huge 3 in transition or an easy layup and suddenly they're on a run. Clark doesn't seem to know when he doesn't have his shot going. When you're hot, you're hot. But when you're ice cold like he's been you need to realize that and pass it and do what's best for the team. Though I'm pissed we got manhandled, we would've lost even with our best game IMO. I saw the first half on the gamecast play by play on my ESPN app since I was driving and it seemed every 3 seconds I saw "_______ makes a 3 pointer", "________ makes a 3 pointer", "_________ makes a 3 pointer". I thought it was buggy but then I realized Marquette just couldn't miss.

By the way, how does a coach not say "no 3's" when you're up 30+ points in final 3 minutes? I get some guys want to get shots who may not normally...but it reminds me of the Pats throwing a deep ball trying for a TD up 40 points with 3 minutes left in the 4th. If I was a player I'd get chippy over that. Brings Fordham to mind.[/quote]

I have no problem with a shooter continuing to shoot when he's cold, what I have a problem with is the shot selection by Clark and others when they're cold. Clark didn't look set on most of his shots last night. You can be open, but not set. Taking those shots is rarely going to get you out of a slump. And that's a team wide problem. As soon as we go cold, we start taking bad shots. Which results in our downward spiral. I would have hoped by now we would have worked through this issue, but as I've said before, I have not seen growth all year from this team. Not even in one aspect of their game.
 
[quote="Monte" post=330788]I have no problem with a shooter continuing to shoot when he's cold, what I have a problem with is the shot selection by Clark and others when they're cold. Clark didn't look set on most of his shots last night. You can be open, but not set. Taking those shots is rarely going to get you out of a slump. And that's a team wide problem. As soon as we go cold, we start taking bad shots. Which results in our downward spiral. I would have hoped by now we would have worked through this issue, but as I've said before, I have not seen growth all year from this team. Not even in one aspect of their game.[/quote]

I always thought those shots were encouraged. I said as much during this coaching regime first season. Different players, same routine.
 
[quote="Monte" post=330788][quote="Mike Zaun" post=330702]The thing that's so infuriating is when Marquette starts warming up and gets back to back baskets and we badly need an answer, we always seem to force a stupid 3 early in the shot clock and it's a brick 99% of the time. They get the rebound and make a huge 3 in transition or an easy layup and suddenly they're on a run. Clark doesn't seem to know when he doesn't have his shot going. When you're hot, you're hot. But when you're ice cold like he's been you need to realize that and pass it and do what's best for the team. Though I'm pissed we got manhandled, we would've lost even with our best game IMO. I saw the first half on the gamecast play by play on my ESPN app since I was driving and it seemed every 3 seconds I saw "_______ makes a 3 pointer", "________ makes a 3 pointer", "_________ makes a 3 pointer". I thought it was buggy but then I realized Marquette just couldn't miss.

By the way, how does a coach not say "no 3's" when you're up 30+ points in final 3 minutes? I get some guys want to get shots who may not normally...but it reminds me of the Pats throwing a deep ball trying for a TD up 40 points with 3 minutes left in the 4th. If I was a player I'd get chippy over that. Brings Fordham to mind.[/quote]

I have no problem with a shooter continuing to shoot when he's cold, what I have a problem with is the shot selection by Clark and others when they're cold. Clark didn't look set on most of his shots last night. You can be open, but not set. Taking those shots is rarely going to get you out of a slump. And that's a team wide problem. As soon as we go cold, we start taking bad shots. Which results in our downward spiral. I would have hoped by now we would have worked through this issue, but as I've said before, I have not seen growth all year from this team. Not even in one aspect of their game.[/quote]
Losing 5 of last 7 & some by a lot supports your thinking Monte. The numbers speak volumes. We just finished poorly while a team like Seton Hall, for example, did the opposite. It is what it is, our Johnnies regressed in the stretch run. Hoping for a bid for players & staff sake, but have to be realistic about the team squandering opportunities at worst possible time.
 
[quote="MJDinkins" post=330792][quote="Monte" post=330788]I have no problem with a shooter continuing to shoot when he's cold, what I have a problem with is the shot selection by Clark and others when they're cold. Clark didn't look set on most of his shots last night. You can be open, but not set. Taking those shots is rarely going to get you out of a slump. And that's a team wide problem. As soon as we go cold, we start taking bad shots. Which results in our downward spiral. I would have hoped by now we would have worked through this issue, but as I've said before, I have not seen growth all year from this team. Not even in one aspect of their game.[/quote]

I always thought those shots were encouraged. I said as much during this coaching regime first season. Different players, same routine.[/quote]

Maybe, but knowing Chris's game when he played, I find it baffling that he encourages kids to hoist up the first remotely decent look they get. But since it's being going on all year, I can't argue your point. Regardless, since it keeps happening that makes him either a bad strategist or a horrible communicator.
 
[quote="Monte" post=330802][quote="MJDinkins" post=330792][quote="Monte" post=330788]I have no problem with a shooter continuing to shoot when he's cold, what I have a problem with is the shot selection by Clark and others when they're cold. Clark didn't look set on most of his shots last night. You can be open, but not set. Taking those shots is rarely going to get you out of a slump. And that's a team wide problem. As soon as we go cold, we start taking bad shots. Which results in our downward spiral. I would have hoped by now we would have worked through this issue, but as I've said before, I have not seen growth all year from this team. Not even in one aspect of their game.[/quote]

I always thought those shots were encouraged. I said as much during this coaching regime first season. Different players, same routine.[/quote]

Maybe, but knowing Chris's game when he played, I find it baffling that he encourages kids to hoist up the first remotely decent look they get. But since it's being going on all year, I can't argue your point. Regardless, since it keeps happening that makes him either a bad strategist or a horrible communicator.[/quote]

I remember reading about what made Oscar Robertson such a great player. A well regarded opponent once said, "If you give him a 25 foot shot, he wants a 20 ft shot. If you give him a 20, he wants 15; IF you give him 15, he wants 10, and if you give him 10 he wants a layup.

I understand the advice to not hesitate when you get a good look, but I also would question what you consider a good look. Defenses were more than happy to let our guys hoist 23 foot shots with little defensive resistance with plenty of time on the clock. Why? Because our guys don't crash the board, and they are low percentage shots until made consistently. In other words, we took those shots because defenses let us take them.

Baffling that on fast breaks more often then not guys like LJ would pull up and shoot from 22 feet on a 4 on 3 with no one of our guys crashing. I don't think we saw many textbook 3 on 2 fast breaks with the ball handler takes the ball at least inside the foul line to split the defense and either shoot from there, drive, or dish to an open player.

When we played poorly it just seems our guys consistently made poor decisions. It may be poor coaching, or just not smart decisions by our players on the court.
 
"I understand the advice to not hesitate when you get a good look, but I also would question what you consider a good look. Defenses were more than happy to let our guys hoist 23 foot shots with little defensive resistance with plenty of time on the clock. Why? Because our guys don't crash the board, and they are low percentage shots until made consistently. In other words, we took those shots because defenses let us take them.

Baffling that on fast breaks more often then not guys like LJ would pull up and shoot from 22 feet on a 4 on 3 with no one of our guys crashing. I don't think we saw many textbook 3 on 2 fast breaks with the ball handler takes the ball at least inside the foul line to split the defense and either shoot from there, drive, or dish to an open player."

Since the team is either unwilling to rebound, or they're told not to rebound, or any other variable.......the inability of the shooters to be successful results in a turnover. SJ quickly retreats to the defensive set and allows the other team to score anyway. Why not try to rebound on occasion? Perhaps the other team's players will faint from shock?
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=330702]The thing that's so infuriating is when Marquette starts warming up and gets back to back baskets and we badly need an answer, we always seem to force a stupid 3 early in the shot clock and it's a brick 99% of the time. They get the rebound and make a huge 3 in transition or an easy layup and suddenly they're on a run. Clark doesn't seem to know when he doesn't have his shot going. When you're hot, you're hot. But when you're ice cold like he's been you need to realize that and pass it and do what's best for the team. Though I'm pissed we got manhandled, we would've lost even with our best game IMO. I saw the first half on the gamecast play by play on my ESPN app since I was driving and it seemed every 3 seconds I saw "_______ makes a 3 pointer", "________ makes a 3 pointer", "_________ makes a 3 pointer". I thought it was buggy but then I realized Marquette just couldn't miss.

By the way, how does a coach not say "no 3's" when you're up 30+ points in final 3 minutes? I get some guys want to get shots who may not normally...but it reminds me of the Pats throwing a deep ball trying for a TD up 40 points with 3 minutes left in the 4th. If I was a player I'd get chippy over that. Brings Fordham to mind.[/quote]
Not true the we would have lost with our best game. MQ was not super last night. We were that bad. If we played our best, we win again. But, we didn’t and we compounded it with a lot of bad decision making and lackadaisical play. It’s history now. So, onward we go.
 
[quote="Monte" post=330788][quote="Mike Zaun" post=330702]The thing that's so infuriating is when Marquette starts warming up and gets back to back baskets and we badly need an answer, we always seem to force a stupid 3 early in the shot clock and it's a brick 99% of the time. They get the rebound and make a huge 3 in transition or an easy layup and suddenly they're on a run. Clark doesn't seem to know when he doesn't have his shot going. When you're hot, you're hot. But when you're ice cold like he's been you need to realize that and pass it and do what's best for the team. Though I'm pissed we got manhandled, we would've lost even with our best game IMO. I saw the first half on the gamecast play by play on my ESPN app since I was driving and it seemed every 3 seconds I saw "_______ makes a 3 pointer", "________ makes a 3 pointer", "_________ makes a 3 pointer". I thought it was buggy but then I realized Marquette just couldn't miss.

By the way, how does a coach not say "no 3's" when you're up 30+ points in final 3 minutes? I get some guys want to get shots who may not normally...but it reminds me of the Pats throwing a deep ball trying for a TD up 40 points with 3 minutes left in the 4th. If I was a player I'd get chippy over that. Brings Fordham to mind.[/quote]

I have no problem with a shooter continuing to shoot when he's cold, what I have a problem with is the shot selection by Clark and others when they're cold. Clark didn't look set on most of his shots last night. You can be open, but not set. Taking those shots is rarely going to get you out of a slump. And that's a team wide problem. As soon as we go cold, we start taking bad shots. Which results in our downward spiral. I would have hoped by now we would have worked through this issue, but as I've said before, I have not seen growth all year from this team. Not even in one aspect of their game.[/quote]
A “Thank You” wasn’t enough. 1000% correct.
 
[quote="MJDinkins" post=330792][quote="Monte" post=330788]I have no problem with a shooter continuing to shoot when he's cold, what I have a problem with is the shot selection by Clark and others when they're cold. Clark didn't look set on most of his shots last night. You can be open, but not set. Taking those shots is rarely going to get you out of a slump. And that's a team wide problem. As soon as we go cold, we start taking bad shots. Which results in our downward spiral. I would have hoped by now we would have worked through this issue, but as I've said before, I have not seen growth all year from this team. Not even in one aspect of their game.[/quote]

I always thought those shots were encouraged. I said as much during this coaching regime first season. Different players, same routine.[/quote]
As I’ve said before the green light needs to have shades of green. Not everyone should feel empowered to hoist long range shots just because they’re open.
 
For those who weren’t at MSG last night...One Great takeaway from last night (how could there be any)...

Couldn’t believe the energy and noise in the place when SJ cut it to 6 early in 2nd half. Most, if not all, of the garden stood...don’t know whether the crowd was a pro-SJ or anti-MQ but it showed the possibilities...

Won’t comment any further on what happened after this seminal moment :(
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top